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Equipment Inspection

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  • i_griffen
    Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send. Since this thread of equipment
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 24, 2005
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      Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal
      Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.

      Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much concern
      and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
      Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
      the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
      cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.

      This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
      there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
      document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
      inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate a
      pontentical accident.

      As the document is being created I am willing to send copies to the
      SAG and AG for your comments.

      If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this for my
      Kingdom.


      Thank you in advance for your assistance.

      Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
      Deputy Royal Archer
      Kingdom of Atenveldt
    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
      I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like this years ago and had to quit when I couldn t put down anything which made sense. I found
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 24, 2005
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        I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like this years
        ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which made sense. I
        found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also have my
        "bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment. I try to
        give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with more
        experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about inspections
        and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of assistance
        once you start getting something together.
        Carolus

        At 09:27 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:



        >Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal
        >Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.
        >
        >Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much concern
        >and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
        >Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
        >the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
        >cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
        >
        >This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
        >there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
        >document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
        >inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate a
        >pontentical accident.
        >
        >As the document is being created I am willing to send copies to the
        >SAG and AG for your comments.
        >
        >If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this for my
        >Kingdom.
        >
        >
        >Thank you in advance for your assistance.
        >
        >Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
        >Deputy Royal Archer
        >Kingdom of Atenveldt
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >---8<---------------------------------------------
        >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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      • Michael Scherrer
        I for one would like to see what you put together. Maybe you could send it privately when you have completed your manuel. Thomas of Cologne
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
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          I for one would like to see what you put together.
          Maybe you could send it privately when you have completed your manuel.
          Thomas of Cologne

          >From: Carolus von Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@...>
          >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Equipment Inspection
          >Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:46:29 -0800
          >
          >
          >I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like this years
          >ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which made sense. I
          >found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also have my
          >"bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment. I try to
          >give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with more
          >experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about inspections
          >and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of assistance
          >once you start getting something together.
          >Carolus
          >
          >At 09:27 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > >Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal
          > >Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.
          > >
          > >Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much concern
          > >and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
          > >Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
          > >the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
          > >cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
          > >
          > >This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
          > >there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
          > >document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
          > >inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate a
          > >pontentical accident.
          > >
          > >As the document is being created I am willing to send copies to the
          > >SAG and AG for your comments.
          > >
          > >If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this for my
          > >Kingdom.
          > >
          > >
          > >Thank you in advance for your assistance.
          > >
          > >Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
          > >Deputy Royal Archer
          > >Kingdom of Atenveldt
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >---8<---------------------------------------------
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          > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >--
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          >
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        • i_griffen
          What I would need from the AG s is a guide line on what is used in each Kingdom so it can be compiled into one document. Since there are several inter-Kingdom
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
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            What I would need from the AG's is a guide line on what is used in
            each Kingdom so it can be compiled into one document. Since there
            are several inter-Kingdom events this would be a good way to
            standardize the inspections. I know how I do an inspection and it 3
            to 5 min to inspect a bow and arrows.

            At Estrella this year there was couple of cases of illeagle
            equipment found on the range. this would also catch some of this.

            Some of the Inter-Kingdom events are
            Pennsic
            Estrella
            Great Western
            Patero
            Gulf War
            Lily's War

            just to name a few.

            Ian Griffen


            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus von Eulenhorst
            <eulenhorst@e...> wrote:
            > I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like
            this years
            > ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which made
            sense. I
            > found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also
            have my
            > "bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment. I
            try to
            > give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with more
            > experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about
            inspections
            > and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of
            assistance
            > once you start getting something together.
            > Carolus
            >
            > At 09:27 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > >Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal
            > >Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.
            > >
            > >Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much
            concern
            > >and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
            > >Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
            > >the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
            > >cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
            > >
            > >This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
            > >there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
            > >document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
            > >inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate
            a
            > >pontentical accident.
            > >
            > >As the document is being created I am willing to send copies to
            the
            > >SAG and AG for your comments.
            > >
            > >If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this for
            my
            > >Kingdom.
            > >
            > >
            > >Thank you in advance for your assistance.
            > >
            > >Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
            > >Deputy Royal Archer
            > >Kingdom of Atenveldt
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >---8<---------------------------------------------
            > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            > >
            > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
            list]
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >--
            > >No virus found in this incoming message.
            > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
            > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date:
            2/22/2005
            >
            >
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            2/22/2005
          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
            Make sure you add a whole section on being kind, gentle, and courteous. In my experience more people get turned off to archery and archery Marshals at the
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
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              Make sure you add a whole section on being kind, gentle, and courteous. In
              my experience more people get turned off to archery and archery Marshals at
              the inspection table than any where else on the range. I make it a personal
              policy never to fail a bow until someone else looks at it, even if I have to
              hand it back to the person who needs inspection. The key is to able to
              convince everyone the bow does NEEDS be failed.

              James Cunningham
              Who has learned that even giving a compliment can have a down side.

              >
              > I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like this years
              > ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which made sense. I
              > found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also have my
              > "bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment. I try to
              > give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with more
              > experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about inspections
              > and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of assistance
              > once you start getting something together.
              > Carolus
            • James Koch
              A simple standardized guide to inspecting the sort of archery equipment we use would be a good thing. Once it is perfected, copies can be handed out to
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
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                A simple standardized guide to inspecting the sort of archery equipment we
                use would be a good thing. Once it is perfected, copies can be handed out
                to everyone bringing equipment to the range. Just remember one thing when
                compiling the procedures, set objective standards. Marshals should not be
                expected to attempt to predict the future.
                >
                Last year at Pennsic I found a lost aluminum arrow behind one of the
                butts. That was a surprise.
                >
                Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                >
                >
                > At 09:47 AM 2/25/2005, you wrote:


                >What I would need from the AG's is a guide line on what is used in
                >each Kingdom so it can be compiled into one document. Since there
                >are several inter-Kingdom events this would be a good way to
                >standardize the inspections. I know how I do an inspection and it 3
                >to 5 min to inspect a bow and arrows.
                >
                >At Estrella this year there was couple of cases of illeagle
                >equipment found on the range. this would also catch some of this.
                >
                >Some of the Inter-Kingdom events are
                >Pennsic
                >Estrella
                >Great Western
                >Patero
                >Gulf War
                >Lily's War
                >
                >just to name a few.
                >
                >Ian Griffen
                >
                >
                >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus von Eulenhorst
                ><eulenhorst@e...> wrote:
                > > I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like
                >this years
                > > ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which made
                >sense. I
                > > found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also
                >have my
                > > "bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment. I
                >try to
                > > give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with more
                > > experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about
                >inspections
                > > and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of
                >assistance
                > > once you start getting something together.
                > > Carolus
                > >
                > > At 09:27 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal
                > > >Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.
                > > >
                > > >Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much
                >concern
                > > >and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
                > > >Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
                > > >the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
                > > >cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
                > > >
                > > >This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
                > > >there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
                > > >document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
                > > >inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate
                >a
                > > >pontentical accident.
                > > >
                > > >As the document is being created I am willing to send copies to
                >the
                > > >SAG and AG for your comments.
                > > >
                > > >If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this for
                >my
                > > >Kingdom.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Thank you in advance for your assistance.
                > > >
                > > >Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
                > > >Deputy Royal Archer
                > > >Kingdom of Atenveldt
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                > > >
                > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
                >list]
                > > >
                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >--
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                > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                > > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date:
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              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                I disagree Marshals need to be able to look at a situation and predict what might happen and take steps to prevent an accident. I did not say it was easy.
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
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                  I disagree Marshals need to be able to look at a situation and predict what
                  might happen and take steps to prevent an accident. I did not say it was
                  easy. Standards even objective standards do not replace good judgment and
                  common sense. A standardized guide will be a great help in getting new
                  marshals and MITs up to speed and to remind and refresh old hands.

                  James Cunningham
                  Every accident has a cause and is thus preventable

                  > A simple standardized guide to inspecting the sort of archery equipment we
                  > use would be a good thing. Once it is perfected, copies can be handed out
                  > to everyone bringing equipment to the range. Just remember one thing when
                  > compiling the procedures, set objective standards. Marshals should not be
                  > expected to attempt to predict the future.
                  > >
                  > Last year at Pennsic I found a lost aluminum arrow behind one of the
                  > butts. That was a surprise.
                  > >
                  > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > At 09:47 AM 2/25/2005, you wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > >What I would need from the AG's is a guide line on what is used in
                  > >each Kingdom so it can be compiled into one document. Since there
                  > >are several inter-Kingdom events this would be a good way to
                  > >standardize the inspections. I know how I do an inspection and it 3
                  > >to 5 min to inspect a bow and arrows.
                  > >
                  > >At Estrella this year there was couple of cases of illeagle
                  > >equipment found on the range. this would also catch some of this.
                  > >
                  > >Some of the Inter-Kingdom events are
                  > >Pennsic
                  > >Estrella
                  > >Great Western
                  > >Patero
                  > >Gulf War
                  > >Lily's War
                  > >
                  > >just to name a few.
                  > >
                  > >Ian Griffen
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  > ><eulenhorst@e...> wrote:
                  > > > I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like
                  > >this years
                  > > > ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which made
                  > >sense. I
                  > > > found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also
                  > >have my
                  > > > "bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment. I
                  > >try to
                  > > > give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with more
                  > > > experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about
                  > >inspections
                  > > > and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of
                  > >assistance
                  > > > once you start getting something together.
                  > > > Carolus
                  > > >
                  > > > At 09:27 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/ Royal
                  > > > >Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much
                  > >concern
                  > > > >and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
                  > > > >Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
                  > > > >the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
                  > > > >cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
                  > > > >there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
                  > > > >document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
                  > > > >inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate
                  > >a
                  > > > >pontentical accident.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >As the document is being created I am willing to send copies to
                  > >the
                  > > > >SAG and AG for your comments.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this for
                  > >my
                  > > > >Kingdom.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Thank you in advance for your assistance.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
                  > > > >Deputy Royal Archer
                  > > > >Kingdom of Atenveldt
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                  > > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
                  > >list]
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                  > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >--
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                  > > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > > > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date:
                  > >2/22/2005
                  > > >
                  > > >
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                  > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date:
                  > >2/22/2005
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                  > >
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                  > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                • i_griffen
                  Yes, this is what I want to do. The assistance of the AG s to proof read will be very important. Ian Griffen ... equipment we ... handed out ... thing when ...
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
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                    Yes, this is what I want to do. The assistance of the AG's to proof
                    read will be very important.

                    Ian Griffen


                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, James Koch <alchem@e...> wrote:
                    > A simple standardized guide to inspecting the sort of archery
                    equipment we
                    > use would be a good thing. Once it is perfected, copies can be
                    handed out
                    > to everyone bringing equipment to the range. Just remember one
                    thing when
                    > compiling the procedures, set objective standards. Marshals
                    should not be
                    > expected to attempt to predict the future.
                    > >
                    > Last year at Pennsic I found a lost aluminum arrow behind one of
                    the
                    > butts. That was a surprise.
                    > >
                    > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > At 09:47 AM 2/25/2005, you wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > >What I would need from the AG's is a guide line on what is used in
                    > >each Kingdom so it can be compiled into one document. Since there
                    > >are several inter-Kingdom events this would be a good way to
                    > >standardize the inspections. I know how I do an inspection and it
                    3
                    > >to 5 min to inspect a bow and arrows.
                    > >
                    > >At Estrella this year there was couple of cases of illeagle
                    > >equipment found on the range. this would also catch some of this.
                    > >
                    > >Some of the Inter-Kingdom events are
                    > >Pennsic
                    > >Estrella
                    > >Great Western
                    > >Patero
                    > >Gulf War
                    > >Lily's War
                    > >
                    > >just to name a few.
                    > >
                    > >Ian Griffen
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    > ><eulenhorst@e...> wrote:
                    > > > I wish you well in this, Ian. I attempted to do something like
                    > >this years
                    > > > ago and had to quit when I couldn't put down anything which
                    made
                    > >sense. I
                    > > > found inspections to be more of an art than a science. I also
                    > >have my
                    > > > "bundle of doom" of failed or questionable looking equipment.
                    I
                    > >try to
                    > > > give RMiT's the basics and turn them loose on the field with
                    more
                    > > > experienced marshals to learn on the job. Keep talking about
                    > >inspections
                    > > > and continue the training on the field. Perhaps I can be of
                    > >assistance
                    > > > once you start getting something together.
                    > > > Carolus
                    > > >
                    > > > At 09:27 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >Greetings to the Society Archer General, Archer Generals/
                    Royal
                    > > > >Archers of the List does Lord Ian Griffen the Archer send.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much
                    > >concern
                    > > > >and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer
                    Generals/
                    > > > >Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to
                    inspect
                    > > > >the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will
                    also
                    > > > >cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17
                    Kingdoms
                    > > > >there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment.
                    This
                    > > > >document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment
                    is
                    > > > >inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may
                    elminate
                    > >a
                    > > > >pontentical accident.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >As the document is being created I am willing to send copies
                    to
                    > >the
                    > > > >SAG and AG for your comments.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >If this is not needed for the Society, I will try to do this
                    for
                    > >my
                    > > > >Kingdom.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Thank you in advance for your assistance.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Lord Ian Griffen the Archer
                    > > > >Deputy Royal Archer
                    > > > >Kingdom of Atenveldt
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                    > > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                    > > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave
                    this
                    > >list]
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >--
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                    > > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    > > > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date:
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                  • Siegfried
                    ... Well, there is one MAJOR problem that I see with such a document ... ok two problems: 1) I feel that this document could only cover basic safety and
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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                      > Since this thread of equipment inspections has brought much concern
                      > and and interest. I propose with the help of the Archer Generals/
                      > Royal Archers of the list to compile a document on how to inspect
                      > the different types of bows/crossbows. This document will also
                      > cover the inspection of Arrows/bolts.
                      >
                      > This is where I would need your help. Since there are 17 Kingdoms
                      > there are 17 different methods used to inspect the equipment. This
                      > document would attempt to bring a standard that the equipment is
                      > inspected by. if we all are doing the same thing it may elminate a
                      > pontentical accident.

                      Well, there is one MAJOR problem that I see with such a document ...
                      ok two problems:

                      1) I feel that this document could only cover 'basic safety' and
                      'SCA-wide allowed' The problem simply exists that almost every
                      Kingdom has their own set of other requirements on equipment and/or
                      safety inspections. In that since, I fear that it would become so
                      basic, to perhaps not be worthwhile.

                      2) Even upon that, I know that different Kingdoms have some very
                      different ideas about safety, disallowing things that I would allow,
                      or vice-versa.

                      Siegfried
                      Kingdom Archery Marshal for Atlantia



                      --
                      ___________________________________________________________________________
                      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                      Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                      Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                      http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                    • Siegfried
                      ... And are you going to keep this document up to date as constant changes occur to all 17 Kingdoms? Otherwise it becomes quickly out of date. Also problems
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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                        > What I would need from the AG's is a guide line on what is used in
                        > each Kingdom so it can be compiled into one document.

                        And are you going to keep this document up to date as constant changes
                        occur to all 17 Kingdoms? Otherwise it becomes quickly out of date.

                        Also problems can arise if you try to go beyond safety, and into
                        equipment requirements, because then you can get into requirements for
                        different divisions, which are different in different Kingdoms, and
                        may vary in a Kingdom based upon the competition.

                        > Since there
                        > are several inter-Kingdom events this would be a good way to
                        > standardize the inspections. I know how I do an inspection and it 3
                        > to 5 min to inspect a bow and arrows.

                        Ahhh, and here it gets even worse, since the rules, for example, for
                        Pennsic, are not the rules for any of the Kingdoms involved, they are
                        their own set of rules. Worse, they do tend to change from year to
                        year (at least from a Middle year to East year), let alone potential
                        changes due to different folks in the primary position.

                        So again, said document wouldn't be a valid document to use when
                        inspecting at Pennsic, and/or when used could cause 'illegal' or
                        'deemed unsafe for Pennsic' equipment onto the field.

                        Siegfried

                        --
                        ___________________________________________________________________________
                        THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                        Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                        Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                        http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                      • Siegfried
                        ... Which is one of the equipment differences that I found between Kingdoms. It turns out that you can interpret the current SCA rules, to allow Aluminum
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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                          > Last year at Pennsic I found a lost aluminum arrow behind one of the
                          > butts. That was a surprise.

                          Which is one of the 'equipment differences' that I found between
                          Kingdoms. It turns out that you can interpret the current SCA rules,
                          to allow Aluminum arrows during practice, just not during competition.
                          Middle Kingdom interpret's it this way.

                          Atlantia bans Aluminum all the time. Pennsic also required wood
                          shafting all the time. However, I found a number of Midrealm archer's
                          coming up to the line complaining that they couldn't practice with
                          their aluminum. Note, all of them had both aluminum AND wood with
                          them.

                          So I wouldn't be surprised if someone, without realizing, ended up
                          with some aluminum on the range. IE, you come up to get inspected
                          with wood arrows, perhaps there is a competition that day you want to
                          participate in, so of course you bring the wood. Later that week you
                          are running low on wood, so you decide to bring your aluminum just for
                          practice. But you've been inspected so you just go out and shoot,
                          and noone notices, and you don't know better (though you SHOULD
                          because you should have read the Pennsic Rules).

                          Anyway, just a note. (And why Atlantia - and most other Kingdoms I
                          know - require wood all the time, just MUCH simpler - and more period)

                          Siegfried


                          --
                          ___________________________________________________________________________
                          THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                          Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                          Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                          http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                        • James Koch
                          ... Gladius Law of SCA marshalling. Where all kingdom s marshals agree, they may be right. Where even one kingdom s marshal disagrees, they are probably all
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 3, 2005
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                            >
                            >The problem simply exists that almost every
                            >Kingdom has their own set of other requirements on equipment and/or
                            >safety inspections.

                            Gladius' Law of SCA marshalling. Where all kingdom's marshals agree, they
                            may be right. Where even one kingdom's marshal disagrees, they are
                            probably all wrong.
                            >
                            Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
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