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Which side does the arrow go on?

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  • Guy Taylor
    Regarding recent discussion where it has been stated that the arrow *must* be shot from the opposite side of the bow when using a thumb ring... Instinctive
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 23, 2005
      Regarding recent discussion where it has been stated that the arrow
      *must* be shot from the opposite side of the bow when using a thumb
      ring...

      Instinctive Archer Magazine, Spring, 1999

      Mongolian Journey, by E. McEwen
      Reprinted from an article previously appearing in the Journal of the
      Society of Archer-Antiquaries

      Page 44:
      "One curious fact emerged. The Mongolians do not always place the
      arrow on the right side of the bow (for a right handed archer).
      Fully as many placed the arrow on the left as the right despite
      using the thumb draw. It has always been stated that the arrow must
      be on the right of the bow when drawing with the right thumb but the
      Mongolians seemed able to shoot just as accurately whichever method
      was employed."

      Page 47:
      "Then followed another discussion on the merits of placing the arrow
      on the right or left side of the bow. This champion archer, drawing
      with the right hand, placed his arrows on the left side of the bow."

      The author was in Mongolia for a scholarly visit and made it a point
      to meet with Mongolian archers wherever he went to speak with them,
      examine their equipment, and see them shoot (where possible).

      Guy

      "Memento Mori"
      Latin
    • Kinjal of Moravia
      ... wrote: I had seen such reference before, but only related to the two different bows carried my the nokud -- one much stronger than the other and shot
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 23, 2005
        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor" <greytaylor@a...>
        wrote:

        I had seen such reference before, but only related to the two
        different bows carried my the 'nokud' -- one much stronger than the
        other and shot from the ground -- the other from horseback. I may
        have incorrectly assumed that the different 'set' option had to do
        with the bow, not personal choice. Either way, I am sure switching
        back and forth is not wise, just as I have been told that becoming
        proficient with multiple bow weights is not wise. Of course, in SCA
        combat archery a lighter bow is often used (than in target) but here
        an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired', no?

        For my draw there is a problem of release from the 'left side'.
        When the arrow leaves the bow it 'kicks out' from the bow, which is
        why spine is necessary to snap it back on line. With the 'left set'
        this kick is into the thunb and causes blisters, while with
        the 'right set' the kick is away from the thumb. The same could be
        said for the finger release -- shooting on the right side kicks the
        knock onto the fingers on release.

        kinjal
        >
        > Regarding recent discussion where it has been stated that the
        arrow
        > *must* be shot from the opposite side of the bow when using a
        thumb
        > ring...
        >
        > Instinctive Archer Magazine, Spring, 1999
        >
        > Mongolian Journey, by E. McEwen
        > Reprinted from an article previously appearing in the Journal of
        the
        > Society of Archer-Antiquaries
        >
        > Page 44:
        > "One curious fact emerged. The Mongolians do not always place the
        > arrow on the right side of the bow (for a right handed archer).
        > Fully as many placed the arrow on the left as the right despite
        > using the thumb draw. It has always been stated that the arrow
        must
        > be on the right of the bow when drawing with the right thumb but
        the
        > Mongolians seemed able to shoot just as accurately whichever
        method
        > was employed."
        >
        > Page 47:
        > "Then followed another discussion on the merits of placing the
        arrow
        > on the right or left side of the bow. This champion archer,
        drawing
        > with the right hand, placed his arrows on the left side of the
        bow."
        >
        > The author was in Mongolia for a scholarly visit and made it a
        point
        > to meet with Mongolian archers wherever he went to speak with
        them,
        > examine their equipment, and see them shoot (where possible).
        >
        > Guy
        >
        > "Memento Mori"
        > Latin
      • Carolus von Eulenhorst
        An arrow is never fired unless it is an incendiary projectile.Loosed, launched, released maybe, but never fired. Carolus ... -- No virus found in this
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 23, 2005
          An arrow is never "fired" unless it is an incendiary projectile.Loosed,
          launched, released maybe, but never fired.
          Carolus

          At 04:50 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:



          >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor" <greytaylor@a...>
          >wrote:
          >
          >snip
          >an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired', no?
          >
          >snip
          > kinjal


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        • Guy Taylor
          I beg to differ... I have fired arrows. One method is when getting the shaft too close to flame when using hot melt glue for tips (and is one reason I don t
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 23, 2005
            I beg to differ... I have fired arrows.

            One method is when getting the shaft too close to flame when using hot melt
            glue for tips (and is one reason I don't use hot melt any longer), and the
            other method is giving a broken arrow a noble parting in the campfire rather
            than simply tossing it into the garbage.
            I imagine both these are similar to the incendiary projectile situation.

            Guy



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Carolus von Eulenhorst [mailto:eulenhorst@...]
            Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:13 AM
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Which side does the arrow go on?



            An arrow is never "fired" unless it is an incendiary projectile.Loosed,
            launched, released maybe, but never fired.
            Carolus

            At 04:50 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:



            >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor" <greytaylor@a...>
            >wrote:
            >
            >snip
            >an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired', no?
            >
            >snip
            > kinjal
          • Carolus von Eulenhorst
            Indeed. I have found a method which allows me to use hot melt without getting the shaft too close to the flame for sufficient time to affect it. Heat the
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 23, 2005
              Indeed. I have found a method which allows me to use hot melt without
              getting the shaft too close to the flame for sufficient time to affect
              it. Heat the glue to a stiff but fluid state and apply it to the
              shaft. Then heat the point sufficiently that when applied to the still
              warm glue it fully melts it and seats the tip. I occasionally have to heat
              the point a little more to fully seat it but only for a moment. Pressing
              the point with a wood block while cooling fully seats it..
              Carolus

              At 11:17 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:


              >I beg to differ... I have fired arrows.
              >
              >One method is when getting the shaft too close to flame when using hot melt
              >glue for tips (and is one reason I don't use hot melt any longer), and the
              >other method is giving a broken arrow a noble parting in the campfire rather
              >than simply tossing it into the garbage.
              >I imagine both these are similar to the incendiary projectile situation.
              >
              >Guy
              >
              >
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: Carolus von Eulenhorst [mailto:eulenhorst@...]
              >Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:13 AM
              >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Which side does the arrow go on?
              >
              >
              >
              >An arrow is never "fired" unless it is an incendiary projectile.Loosed,
              >launched, released maybe, but never fired.
              >Carolus
              >
              >At 04:50 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor" <greytaylor@a...>
              > >wrote:
              > >
              > >snip
              > >an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired', no?
              > >
              > >snip
              > > kinjal
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >---8<---------------------------------------------
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              >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >--
              >No virus found in this incoming message.
              >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005


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              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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            • John Rossignol
              I have only limited personal experience with the thumb draw, and never (yet) on horseback, so my comments on this particular topic are based on reading
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 23, 2005
                I have only limited personal experience with the thumb draw, and never
                (yet) on horseback, so my comments on this particular topic are based on
                reading (somewhere or other) and a conversation with one Russian archer
                and another from western China.

                First, the usual reason given for the archer to place the arrow on the
                side of the bow away from the bow arm when using the thumb draw is so
                that the torque on the string will hold the arrow to the bow, rather
                than moving it away from the bow. But I have read that really
                proficient practitioners of the thumb draw can place the arrow on either
                side of the bow because their technique has progressed to the point
                where torque is negligible, both in the draw and the release. This may
                be easier to do with a ring made of a slick material (e.g. bronze or
                horn) than with one made of leather (or a leather glove), and especially
                with a style of ring having a tab which projects onto the ball of the
                thumb, since these factors would minimize torquing friction on the string.

                Second, the Russian and Chinese archers told me that when shooting to
                the side from a galloping horse, it is generally desirable to place the
                arrow on the side of the bow toward the horse's head, so that the wind
                of the horse's travel will blow the arrow onto the bow rather than away
                from it. This makes sense, but I regret that I have no personal
                experience to test it.

                John


                Guy Taylor wrote:

                >Regarding recent discussion where it has been stated that the arrow
                >*must* be shot from the opposite side of the bow when using a thumb
                >ring...
                >
                >Instinctive Archer Magazine, Spring, 1999
                >
                >Mongolian Journey, by E. McEwen
                >Reprinted from an article previously appearing in the Journal of the
                >Society of Archer-Antiquaries
                >
                >Page 44:
                >"One curious fact emerged. The Mongolians do not always place the
                >arrow on the right side of the bow (for a right handed archer).
                >Fully as many placed the arrow on the left as the right despite
                >using the thumb draw. It has always been stated that the arrow must
                >be on the right of the bow when drawing with the right thumb but the
                >Mongolians seemed able to shoot just as accurately whichever method
                >was employed."
                >
                >Page 47:
                >"Then followed another discussion on the merits of placing the arrow
                >on the right or left side of the bow. This champion archer, drawing
                >with the right hand, placed his arrows on the left side of the bow."
                >
                >The author was in Mongolia for a scholarly visit and made it a point
                >to meet with Mongolian archers wherever he went to speak with them,
                >examine their equipment, and see them shoot (where possible).
                >
                >Guy
                >
                >"Memento Mori"
                >Latin
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >---8<---------------------------------------------
                >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                >
                >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
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                >
              • Norman Bailey
                I got a dozen new arrows for Christmas, and as I was watching him put the points on, he used exactly this method. It was very quick too. Norm ...
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 24, 2005
                  I got a dozen new arrows for Christmas, and as I was
                  watching him put the points on, he used exactly this
                  method. It was very quick too.
                  Norm

                  --- Carolus von Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@...>
                  wrote:

                  >
                  > Indeed. I have found a method which allows me to
                  > use hot melt without
                  > getting the shaft too close to the flame for
                  > sufficient time to affect
                  > it. Heat the glue to a stiff but fluid state and
                  > apply it to the
                  > shaft. Then heat the point sufficiently that when
                  > applied to the still
                  > warm glue it fully melts it and seats the tip. I
                  > occasionally have to heat
                  > the point a little more to fully seat it but only
                  > for a moment. Pressing
                  > the point with a wood block while cooling fully
                  > seats it..
                  > Carolus
                  >
                  > At 11:17 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > >I beg to differ... I have fired arrows.
                  > >
                  > >One method is when getting the shaft too close to
                  > flame when using hot melt
                  > >glue for tips (and is one reason I don't use hot
                  > melt any longer), and the
                  > >other method is giving a broken arrow a noble
                  > parting in the campfire rather
                  > >than simply tossing it into the garbage.
                  > >I imagine both these are similar to the incendiary
                  > projectile situation.
                  > >
                  > >Guy
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >-----Original Message-----
                  > >From: Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  > [mailto:eulenhorst@...]
                  > >Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:13 AM
                  > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Which side does the
                  > arrow go on?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >An arrow is never "fired" unless it is an
                  > incendiary projectile.Loosed,
                  > >launched, released maybe, but never fired.
                  > >Carolus
                  > >
                  > >At 04:50 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor"
                  > <greytaylor@a...>
                  > > >wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >snip
                  > > >an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired',
                  > no?
                  > > >
                  > > >snip
                  > > > kinjal
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by
                  > Medieval Mart
                  > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's
                  > http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                  > to leave this list]
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                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >--
                  > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 -
                  > Release Date: 1/21/2005
                  >
                  >
                  > --
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                  > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release
                  > Date: 1/21/2005
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                  >
                  >
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                • Nest verch Tangwistel
                  This is exactly how I do it too. Many times my tips have stayed on while others have come loose in expecially obnoxious targets. Nest P.S. If this stupid snow
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 26, 2005
                    This is exactly how I do it too. Many times my tips have stayed on while
                    others have come loose in expecially obnoxious targets.

                    Nest

                    P.S. If this stupid snow doesn't stop I am never going to get to the lanes
                    to shoot.


                    --- Norman Bailey <normbaileyjr@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > I got a dozen new arrows for Christmas, and as I was
                    > watching him put the points on, he used exactly this
                    > method. It was very quick too.
                    > Norm
                    >
                    > --- Carolus von Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Indeed. I have found a method which allows me to
                    > > use hot melt without
                    > > getting the shaft too close to the flame for
                    > > sufficient time to affect
                    > > it. Heat the glue to a stiff but fluid state and
                    > > apply it to the
                    > > shaft. Then heat the point sufficiently that when
                    > > applied to the still
                    > > warm glue it fully melts it and seats the tip. I
                    > > occasionally have to heat
                    > > the point a little more to fully seat it but only
                    > > for a moment. Pressing
                    > > the point with a wood block while cooling fully
                    > > seats it..
                    > > Carolus
                    > >
                    > > At 11:17 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >I beg to differ... I have fired arrows.
                    > > >
                    > > >One method is when getting the shaft too close to
                    > > flame when using hot melt
                    > > >glue for tips (and is one reason I don't use hot
                    > > melt any longer), and the
                    > > >other method is giving a broken arrow a noble
                    > > parting in the campfire rather
                    > > >than simply tossing it into the garbage.
                    > > >I imagine both these are similar to the incendiary
                    > > projectile situation.
                    > > >
                    > > >Guy
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >-----Original Message-----
                    > > >From: Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    > > [mailto:eulenhorst@...]
                    > > >Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:13 AM
                    > > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Which side does the
                    > > arrow go on?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >An arrow is never "fired" unless it is an
                    > > incendiary projectile.Loosed,
                    > > >launched, released maybe, but never fired.
                    > > >Carolus
                    > > >
                    > > >At 04:50 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor"
                    > > <greytaylor@a...>
                    > > > >wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >snip
                    > > > >an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired',
                    > > no?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >snip
                    > > > > kinjal
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by
                    > > Medieval Mart
                    > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's
                    > > http://www.medievalmart.com/
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                    > > to leave this list]
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                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >--
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                    > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    > > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 -
                    > > Release Date: 1/21/2005
                    > >
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                    > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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                    > > Date: 1/21/2005
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                  • rfultz@up.com
                    I dip eack tip in water to quick cool when done. Rick Norman Bailey 01/24/05 11:09 AM I got a dozen new arrows for Christmas, and as
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 26, 2005
                      I dip eack tip in water to quick cool when done.

                      Rick




                      Norman Bailey
                      <normbaileyjr@yah
                      oo.com>

                      01/24/05 11:09 AM




                      I got a dozen new arrows for Christmas, and as I was
                      watching him put the points on, he used exactly this
                      method. It was very quick too.
                      Norm

                      --- Carolus von Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@...>
                      wrote:

                      > Indeed. I have found a method which allows me to
                      > use hot melt without
                      > getting the shaft too close to the flame for
                      > sufficient time to affect
                      > it. Heat the glue to a stiff but fluid state and
                      > apply it to the
                      > shaft. Then heat the point sufficiently that when
                      > applied to the still
                      > warm glue it fully melts it and seats the tip. I
                      > occasionally have to heat
                      > the point a little more to fully seat it but only
                      > for a moment. Pressing
                      > the point with a wood block while cooling fully
                      > seats it..
                      > Carolus
                      >
                      > At 11:17 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                      >
                      > >I beg to differ... I have fired arrows.
                      > >
                      > >One method is when getting the shaft too close to
                      > flame when using hot melt
                      > >glue for tips (and is one reason I don't use hot
                      > melt any longer), and the
                      > >other method is giving a broken arrow a noble
                      > parting in the campfire rather
                      > >than simply tossing it into the garbage.
                      > >I imagine both these are similar to the incendiary
                      > projectile situation.
                      > >
                      > >Guy
                    • Dan Martin
                      You guys know there are 1000s of ways to attach arrows. with practice tips and practice tips only I supper glue. I will brake or throw arrow away before i
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 26, 2005
                        You guys know there are 1000s of ways to attach arrows.
                        with practice tips and practice tips only I supper glue. I will brake or throw arrow away before i remove tip and hot water breaks the glue
                        Tec 2 below is how I attach everything else....
                        Go to 3rivers.com
                        you can get pitch if your real motivated and want to do it like the indians. Not hard but very messy

                        Norman Bailey <normbaileyjr@...> wrote:


                        I got a dozen new arrows for Christmas, and as I was
                        watching him put the points on, he used exactly this
                        method. It was very quick too.
                        Norm

                        --- Carolus von Eulenhorst
                        wrote:

                        >
                        > Indeed. I have found a method which allows me to
                        > use hot melt without
                        > getting the shaft too close to the flame for
                        > sufficient time to affect
                        > it. Heat the glue to a stiff but fluid state and
                        > apply it to the
                        > shaft. Then heat the point sufficiently that when
                        > applied to the still
                        > warm glue it fully melts it and seats the tip. I
                        > occasionally have to heat
                        > the point a little more to fully seat it but only
                        > for a moment. Pressing
                        > the point with a wood block while cooling fully
                        > seats it..
                        > Carolus
                        >
                        > At 11:17 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > >I beg to differ... I have fired arrows.
                        > >
                        > >One method is when getting the shaft too close to
                        > flame when using hot melt
                        > >glue for tips (and is one reason I don't use hot
                        > melt any longer), and the
                        > >other method is giving a broken arrow a noble
                        > parting in the campfire rather
                        > >than simply tossing it into the garbage.
                        > >I imagine both these are similar to the incendiary
                        > projectile situation.
                        > >
                        > >Guy
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >-----Original Message-----
                        > >From: Carolus von Eulenhorst
                        > [mailto:eulenhorst@...]
                        > >Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:13 AM
                        > >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Which side does the
                        > arrow go on?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >An arrow is never "fired" unless it is an
                        > incendiary projectile.Loosed,
                        > >launched, released maybe, but never fired.
                        > >Carolus
                        > >
                        > >At 04:50 AM 1/23/2005, you wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Taylor"
                        >
                        > > >wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >snip
                        > > >an arrow if often 'launched' rather than 'fired',
                        > no?
                        > > >
                        > > >snip
                        > > > kinjal
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
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                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >--
                        > >No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                        > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 -
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Hal Clark
                        I use a different method which does not burn the shafts. I place a small abount of hot glue in the tip. Hold the tip over the fire with pliers and when the
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 26, 2005
                          I use a different method which does not burn the shafts. I place
                          a small abount of hot glue in the tip. Hold the tip over the fire with pliers and when the glue melts, I press the shaft into the tip. Then, still holding pressure on the shaft with one hand I use a wet rag to cool the tip. This method has worked for me for several years.
                          Walk Tall
                          Baron Ben


                          ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                          From: Nest verch Tangwistel <eastarch@...>
                          Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 05:39:23 -0800 (PST)

                          >
                          >This is exactly how I do it too. Many times my tips have stayed on while
                          >others have come loose in expecially obnoxious targets.
                          >
                          >Nest
                          >
                          >P.S. If this stupid snow doesn't stop I am never going to get to the lanes
                          >to shoot
                          >
                          >



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