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Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?

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  • Olga for now
    Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I m a sap for protocol) I m a little over 5 ft... I don t know yet if that means I ll need a very short long bow
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 8, 2005
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      Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I'm a sap for protocol)
      I'm a little over 5 ft... I don't know yet if that means I'll need a very
      short long bow or if a long bow's not realistic option but I'll look into
      that in the coming season..and thank you for the heads-up! Luckily, I
      started off as a left handed writer before being switched right. My logic
      here is that muscles have memory + I can see better with my left too...so
      looking into left-handed shooting shouldn't be any harder than picking up a
      bow for the first time to shoot right, right? Looking at the recurve I have
      now, there is a good portion of wood cut out (cave) where one nocks the
      arrows. I assume this is for visibility. Holding it with the right and
      drawing with the left however "switches" this visibility somewhat. I'm
      hoping to find a bow where the "gouge/caving" and the arrow rest have been
      placed mirror of normal for left shooters-ie on the right side of the bow
      instead of the left.--do you know what I mean? Have you seen these?

      Warmest Regards,
      Olga

      > Hi Olga!
      > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
      > basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car
      > wreak,
      > that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an
      > old
      > grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a right
      > handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed with
      > my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
      > Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on,
      > But
      > I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy enough,
      > but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows when
      > you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
      > As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All that
      > is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
      > fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye patch,
      > to
      > help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better
      > if
      > I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have
      > aquired
      > the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only
      > fun,
      > but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will
      > help
      > take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
      > I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
      > heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit behind
      > the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
      > that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.
      >
      > At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who didn't
      > want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably
      > find
      > your scores will go up some too.
      >
      > Lots of luck and keep shooting
      > Baron Talmon
      >
      >
      > DER BARON
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >>From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
      >>Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      >>Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
      >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
      >>
      >>
      >>Evyenios,
      >>
      >>I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
      >>eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery
      >>for
      >>years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and error
      >>you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if
      >>it's
      >>the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others
      >>are
      >>seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday and
      >>just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
      >>
      >>Warmest Regards,
      >>
      >>Olga for now
      >>Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
      >>
      >>A stranger said it best,
      >>"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about X?"
      >>it
      >>is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y
      >>towards
      >>X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about X,
      >>but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I think
      >>about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
      >>http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
      >>
      >>----- Original Message -----
      >>From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
      >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      >>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
      >>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
      >>
      >>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Greetings, fellow archers...
      >> >
      >> > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
      >> > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
      >> > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
      >> > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
      >> > handed bow.
      >> >
      >> > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
      >> > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
      >> > considered wearing an eye patch...
      >> >
      >> > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
      >> > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
      >> > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
      >> > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
      >> >
      >> > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
      >> > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
      >> >
      >> > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
      >> > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
      >> >
      >> > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
      >> > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
      >> > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
      >> > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
      >> >
      >> > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
      >> > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
      >> > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
      >> >
      >> > -Evyenios
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > ---8<---------------------------------------------
      >> > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
      >> > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
      >> >
      >> > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>---8<---------------------------------------------
      >>Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
      >>Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
      >>
      >>[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
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      >>
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      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
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      >
      >
      > ---8<---------------------------------------------
      > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
      > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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    • Frederick Fenters
      Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 04:51:01 -0000 From: Evyenios Athanasiou Subject: Eye dominance and archery? Greetings, fellow archers... My name
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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        Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 04:51:01 -0000
        From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
        Subject: Eye dominance and archery?



        Greetings, fellow archers...

        My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
        Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
        about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
        dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
        handed bow.

        I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
        everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
        considered wearing an eye patch...

        So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
        bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
        and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
        marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.

        So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
        respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...

        1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
        handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?

        AElfric the Kestrell and William Ross, both friends of mine have dealt with
        this. Will went the route of an eye patch, Aelfric just trained himself to
        close his left eye to allign and release. I myself learned to drop focus on
        my left eye (which drives my eye doctor crazy in some of the astigmatism
        tests because I do it without thinking)

        2. Is it worth it to switch hands?

        Some say yes, some say no. How satisfied and comfortable are you shooting
        right handed? Is equipment and cost going to be an issue for you? I did
        not have left handed equipment available or I might have tried.

        Since I've only been seriously
        practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
        time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
        chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.

        3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
        correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
        recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?

        I'm afraid I can't answer these. When a bum shoulder and back forced me to
        cut back on my hand bow shooting, a friend gifted me with an old PowerMaster
        crossbow. I shot well enough to start making the Midrealm Archer Champions
        teams for Pennsic and have upgraded my equipment as I have been able.

        -Evyenios

        Forester Padraig MacRaighne
        Pentamere Regional Archery Marshal
      • Kristine Casper
        I learned to shoot left (left-eye dominant) but later changed to right (because my uncle had a right-hand bow he wasn t using and that was a lot less expensive
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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          I learned to shoot left (left-eye dominant) but later changed to right
          (because my uncle had a right-hand bow he wasn't using and that was a lot
          less expensive for me as a newbie). I've been shooting right for about two
          years now. I use both my eyes to look beyond the bow/arrow and directly to
          the target - that is, I don't consciously use the arrow to line up my
          shots - and I don't have the double vision you describe.

          I was considering changing back to left, but wanted to make sure that eye
          dominance was making a difference to how my sight window aligned. So I paid
          close attention to my sight window and my right eye is definitely dominant!
          If I do the peek-through-my-hands trick to check dominance, I am left-eye
          dominant - every time. I picked up a left handed bow anyway and found that
          my right eye remained dominant. Sounds weird, but I guess my right eye
          became trained to dominate when I shoot. I'm sure it would change back if I
          shot left over time.

          I also believe that in truly instinctive shooting (not gap shooting), it
          doesn't matter that much, as both eyes are trained on the target. At least
          that's how it is for me.

          Laebeth

          P.S. If you use a bow without a cut-out arrow rest, you can do both!

          >
          > Greetings, fellow archers...
          >
          > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
          > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
          > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
          > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
          > handed bow.
          >
          > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
          > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
          > considered wearing an eye patch...
          >
          > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
          > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
          > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
          > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
          >
          > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
          > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
          >
          > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
          > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
          >
          > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
          > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
          > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
          > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
          >
          > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
          > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
          > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
          >
          > -Evyenios
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
          > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
          >
          > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



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        • Carolus von Eulenhorst
          This apparent contradiction is really quite common. I had an ophthalmologist friend explain the process to me. When you use the peep hole method of
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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            This apparent contradiction is really quite common. I had an
            ophthalmologist friend explain the process to me. When you use the peep
            hole method of determining dominance, the brain is taken out of the
            equation and the purely physical response takes over. This is true
            dominance. When simply keeping both eyes on an object and attempting the
            determine dominance, the brain will subconsciously correct the image the
            return the desired response. While this will work in general for most
            vision matters, it becomes a hindrance when trying to perform complex
            functions involving balance, multiple muscle adjustments, and the like
            (activities such as archery). As the earlier poster mentioned about
            instinctive shooting, if you are just trying to get off that one shot to a
            kill zone this is fine. If, on the other hand, you are trying for modern
            target accuracy or trying to get that NFAA field mouse patch, it isn't as
            good. So much of the importance lies in where your priorities in archery lie.
            Carolus

            At 12:33 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:


            >I learned to shoot left (left-eye dominant) but later changed to right
            >(because my uncle had a right-hand bow he wasn't using and that was a lot
            >less expensive for me as a newbie). I've been shooting right for about two
            >years now. I use both my eyes to look beyond the bow/arrow and directly to
            >the target - that is, I don't consciously use the arrow to line up my
            >shots - and I don't have the double vision you describe.
            >
            >I was considering changing back to left, but wanted to make sure that eye
            >dominance was making a difference to how my sight window aligned. So I paid
            >close attention to my sight window and my right eye is definitely dominant!
            >If I do the peek-through-my-hands trick to check dominance, I am left-eye
            >dominant - every time. I picked up a left handed bow anyway and found that
            >my right eye remained dominant. Sounds weird, but I guess my right eye
            >became trained to dominate when I shoot. I'm sure it would change back if I
            >shot left over time.
            >
            >I also believe that in truly instinctive shooting (not gap shooting), it
            >doesn't matter that much, as both eyes are trained on the target. At least
            >that's how it is for me.
            >
            >Laebeth
            >
            >P.S. If you use a bow without a cut-out arrow rest, you can do both!
            >
            > >
            > > Greetings, fellow archers...
            > >
            > > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
            > > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
            > > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
            > > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
            > > handed bow.
            > >
            > > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
            > > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
            > > considered wearing an eye patch...
            > >
            > > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
            > > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
            > > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
            > > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
            > >
            > > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
            > > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
            > >
            > > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
            > > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
            > >
            > > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
            > > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
            > > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
            > > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
            > >
            > > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
            > > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
            > > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
            > >
            > > -Evyenios
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
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          • mark s graves
            The eye dominance thing can be tricky. Have you tried closing your left eye when you shoot. I have an eye issue too, that has the same effect as you
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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              The eye dominance thing can be tricky. Have you tried closing your left
              eye when you shoot. I have an eye issue too, that has the same effect
              as you describe and I shoot wonderfully by closing one eye. It may be
              easier to do this if you are naturally right-handed......I started by
              wearing a patch, and after awhile I didn't need it and could shoot by
              just closing one eye.....Try this first before completely relearning to
              shoot...Hope that this helps.......William Ross of Skye
            • Mark Hendershott
              ... I shoot right handed and find it helpful to close my left eye. Given my usual scores I hesitate of say this is a cure for anything in my case but I am
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                At 06:22 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:

                >The eye dominance thing can be tricky. Have you tried closing your left
                >eye when you shoot. I have an eye issue too, that has the same effect
                >as you describe and I shoot wonderfully by closing one eye. It may be
                >easier to do this if you are naturally right-handed......I started by
                >wearing a patch, and after awhile I didn't need it and could shoot by
                >just closing one eye.....Try this first before completely relearning to
                >shoot...Hope that this helps.......William Ross of Skye
                >
                >
                >--

                I shoot right handed and find it helpful to close my left eye. Given my
                usual scores I hesitate of say this is a cure for anything in my case but I
                am left eye dominant.

                Simon Sinneghe
                Briaroak, Summits, An Tir
              • Lord Cain Saethydd
                ... right- ... I shoot both right and left handed. I am blessed with being near equal in eye dominance. ... a ... It is well worth the time of even
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Evyenios Athanasiou"
                  <ebrads@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > snipped
                  >
                  > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a
                  right-
                  > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?

                  I shoot both right and left handed. I am blessed with being 'near
                  equal' in eye dominance.

                  >
                  > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                  > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                  > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand
                  a
                  > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.

                  It is well worth the time of even established masters to switch
                  hands, occasionaly. Doing so shows the archery a great deal of
                  potential flaws in thier form. Elmer, the author the Grey Goose Wing,
                  and other fine books, was also a Medical Doctor. He encouraged anyone
                  who was having dificulty with thier draw arm to switch hands. He
                  touted the benefits of equalizing your practices (right and left
                  hands both), as it excercised critical muscles in the shoulders, arms
                  and back equaly. Thus ensuring better posture, greater comfort in
                  everyday life, and (low and behold), improving your overall form.
                  Many archers will find thier scores will improve slightly if the
                  switch hands. Not at first, but over time.

                  >
                  > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                  > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                  > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?

                  I shoot, (or rather shot), Bowmaster with both hands. But, as I
                  said, I am essentialy neither eye dominant. Though, I will say this:
                  close the 'off string' eye partialy, with out actualy squinting. The
                  best hunters do this, as well as many counter-snipers. If you shoot
                  both eyes open fully, you will get a confusing picture after awhile.
                  Even when using your dominant eye. Many archers shoot only one eye
                  open. This does work well for normal target shooting. If you tend to
                  shoot at unkown distances, the 'partial closure' method give a
                  profound advatage.

                  Welcome to SCA Archery!

                  Cain, Atenveldt

                  >
                  > -Evyenios
                • Talmon Parker
                  Greetings once again Olga: The length of the long bow is misleading. After all, you are going to hold it in the middle of the bow, so that means you will have
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 11, 2005
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                    Greetings once again Olga:
                    The length of the long bow is misleading. After all, you are going to hold
                    it in the middle of the bow, so that means you will have half of the length
                    above your shoulders.So, if it's shorter than 8 feet you shouldn't have any
                    problem. And yes they make a long bow that has a shelf on both sides of the
                    grip. Baron bows had some for sale. I don't know if they still have them in
                    stock or not. I find that they have resonable prices also.
                    If the long bow has a shelf, it is not considered a traditional bow, and
                    must be shot in the open class. The shelf is to allow you have a place to
                    hold your arrow steady on the bow. It also allows you to put some kind of
                    padding on the shelf so there is less damage to your fletching. It gives you
                    a better line of sight down the arrow, toward the center of the bow.


                    Once again I wish you the best of luck, And keep
                    shooting

                    Baron Talmon



                    DER BARON




                    >From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                    >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                    >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:40:13 -0800
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I'm a sap for protocol)
                    >I'm a little over 5 ft... I don't know yet if that means I'll need a very
                    >short long bow or if a long bow's not realistic option but I'll look into
                    >that in the coming season..and thank you for the heads-up! Luckily, I
                    >started off as a left handed writer before being switched right. My logic
                    >here is that muscles have memory + I can see better with my left too...so
                    >looking into left-handed shooting shouldn't be any harder than picking up a
                    >bow for the first time to shoot right, right? Looking at the recurve I have
                    >now, there is a good portion of wood cut out (cave) where one nocks the
                    >arrows. I assume this is for visibility. Holding it with the right and
                    >drawing with the left however "switches" this visibility somewhat. I'm
                    >hoping to find a bow where the "gouge/caving" and the arrow rest have been
                    >placed mirror of normal for left shooters-ie on the right side of the bow
                    >instead of the left.--do you know what I mean? Have you seen these?
                    >
                    >Warmest Regards,
                    >Olga
                    >
                    > > Hi Olga!
                    > > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                    > > basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car
                    > > wreak,
                    > > that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an
                    > > old
                    > > grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a
                    >right
                    > > handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed
                    >with
                    > > my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
                    > > Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on,
                    > > But
                    > > I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy
                    >enough,
                    > > but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows
                    >when
                    > > you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
                    > > As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All
                    >that
                    > > is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
                    > > fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye
                    >patch,
                    > > to
                    > > help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better
                    > > if
                    > > I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have
                    > > aquired
                    > > the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only
                    > > fun,
                    > > but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will
                    > > help
                    > > take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
                    > > I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
                    > > heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit
                    >behind
                    > > the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
                    > > that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.
                    > >
                    > > At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who
                    >didn't
                    > > want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably
                    > > find
                    > > your scores will go up some too.
                    > >
                    > > Lots of luck and keep shooting
                    > > Baron Talmon
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > DER BARON
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >>From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                    > >>Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    > >>Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                    > >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>Evyenios,
                    > >>
                    > >>I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
                    > >>eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery
                    > >>for
                    > >>years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and
                    >error
                    > >>you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if
                    > >>it's
                    > >>the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others
                    > >>are
                    > >>seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday
                    >and
                    > >>just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
                    > >>
                    > >>Warmest Regards,
                    > >>
                    > >>Olga for now
                    > >>Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
                    > >>
                    > >>A stranger said it best,
                    > >>"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about
                    >X?"
                    > >>it
                    > >>is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y
                    > >>towards
                    > >>X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about
                    >X,
                    > >>but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I
                    >think
                    > >>about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
                    > >>http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
                    > >>
                    > >>----- Original Message -----
                    > >>From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                    > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    > >>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
                    > >>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Greetings, fellow archers...
                    > >> >
                    > >> > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                    > >> > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                    > >> > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                    > >> > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                    > >> > handed bow.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                    > >> > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                    > >> > considered wearing an eye patch...
                    > >> >
                    > >> > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                    > >> > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                    > >> > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                    > >> > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose
                    >to
                    > >> > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                    > >> >
                    > >> > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                    > >> > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                    > >> >
                    > >> > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                    > >> > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                    > >> > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                    > >> > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                    > >> > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                    > >> > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                    > >> >
                    > >> > -Evyenios
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > >> > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > >> > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    > >> >
                    > >> > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > >>Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > >>Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    > >>
                    > >>[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > >>
                    > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    > >
                    > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Cyan of Storvik
                    I might add that shelves also have the advantage of being more consistant then your knuckle for the elevation of your arrow release. On a shelfless bow,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 11, 2005
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                      I might add that shelves also have the advantage of being more
                      consistant then your knuckle for the elevation of your arrow release.
                      On a shelfless bow, holding the grip even 1/8" high or low
                      translates into a 4 deg. discprepency on the arrow release angle
                      relative to the nock on a 28" draw.
                      It's also the one dimension of angle on the arrow that is not easy
                      to differentiate as the archer is looking down the length of the
                      arrow shaft (You can gauge left/right up/down from your view point).
                      E.g. if you shoot an arrow and hit the target, then the next time
                      you pick-up the bow and grip the bow 1/8" higher, it would be the
                      same as if you had dropped the nock 1/8" or moved your anchor point
                      1/8" lower on your face or elevated your bow 1/8" over where you
                      were aiming before.
                      Just something to think about.
                      -Cyan of Storvik
                    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      Several points here. First, the cutout in a recurve or modern long bow is to make the arrow lie closer to the center of the bow ( referred to as center shot)
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 11, 2005
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                        Several points here. First, the cutout in a recurve or modern long bow is
                        to make the arrow lie closer to the center of the bow ( referred to as
                        center shot) and is not , technically a shelf which is a rest for the
                        arrow. The fact that the cutout functions as a shelf is
                        incidental. Period sources refer to built up shelves of horn or cork and
                        so would be allowable on a period longbow, it is the cutout which moves
                        them to open division.

                        As to the original question, if an archer wants a center shot bow (recurve
                        or modern longbow) , it is possible to get them either left or right handed.

                        Carolus
                        (who incidentally makes policy for Caid, but seldom speaks in this role on
                        the lists and is not doing so now)

                        At 09:26 AM 1/11/2005, you wrote:


                        >Greetings once again Olga:
                        > The length of the long bow is misleading. After all, you are going to hold
                        >it in the middle of the bow, so that means you will have half of the length
                        >above your shoulders.So, if it's shorter than 8 feet you shouldn't have any
                        >problem. And yes they make a long bow that has a shelf on both sides of the
                        >grip. Baron bows had some for sale. I don't know if they still have them in
                        >stock or not. I find that they have resonable prices also.
                        > If the long bow has a shelf, it is not considered a traditional bow, and
                        >must be shot in the open class. The shelf is to allow you have a place to
                        >hold your arrow steady on the bow. It also allows you to put some kind of
                        >padding on the shelf so there is less damage to your fletching. It gives you
                        >a better line of sight down the arrow, toward the center of the bow.
                        >
                        >
                        > Once again I wish you the best of luck, And keep
                        >shooting
                        >
                        > Baron Talmon
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > DER BARON
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                        > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        > >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                        > >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:40:13 -0800
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I'm a sap for protocol)
                        > >I'm a little over 5 ft... I don't know yet if that means I'll need a very
                        > >short long bow or if a long bow's not realistic option but I'll look into
                        > >that in the coming season..and thank you for the heads-up! Luckily, I
                        > >started off as a left handed writer before being switched right. My logic
                        > >here is that muscles have memory + I can see better with my left too...so
                        > >looking into left-handed shooting shouldn't be any harder than picking up a
                        > >bow for the first time to shoot right, right? Looking at the recurve I have
                        > >now, there is a good portion of wood cut out (cave) where one nocks the
                        > >arrows. I assume this is for visibility. Holding it with the right and
                        > >drawing with the left however "switches" this visibility somewhat. I'm
                        > >hoping to find a bow where the "gouge/caving" and the arrow rest have been
                        > >placed mirror of normal for left shooters-ie on the right side of the bow
                        > >instead of the left.--do you know what I mean? Have you seen these?
                        > >
                        > >Warmest Regards,
                        > >Olga
                        > >
                        > > > Hi Olga!
                        > > > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                        > > > basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car
                        > > > wreak,
                        > > > that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an
                        > > > old
                        > > > grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a
                        > >right
                        > > > handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed
                        > >with
                        > > > my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
                        > > > Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on,
                        > > > But
                        > > > I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy
                        > >enough,
                        > > > but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows
                        > >when
                        > > > you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
                        > > > As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All
                        > >that
                        > > > is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
                        > > > fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye
                        > >patch,
                        > > > to
                        > > > help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better
                        > > > if
                        > > > I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have
                        > > > aquired
                        > > > the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only
                        > > > fun,
                        > > > but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will
                        > > > help
                        > > > take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
                        > > > I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
                        > > > heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit
                        > >behind
                        > > > the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
                        > > > that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.
                        > > >
                        > > > At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who
                        > >didn't
                        > > > want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably
                        > > > find
                        > > > your scores will go up some too.
                        > > >
                        > > > Lots of luck and keep shooting
                        > > > Baron Talmon
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > DER BARON
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >>From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                        > > >>Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                        > > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > >>Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                        > > >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>Evyenios,
                        > > >>
                        > > >>I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
                        > > >>eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery
                        > > >>for
                        > > >>years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and
                        > >error
                        > > >>you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if
                        > > >>it's
                        > > >>the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others
                        > > >>are
                        > > >>seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday
                        > >and
                        > > >>just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
                        > > >>
                        > > >>Warmest Regards,
                        > > >>
                        > > >>Olga for now
                        > > >>Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
                        > > >>
                        > > >>A stranger said it best,
                        > > >>"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about
                        > >X?"
                        > > >>it
                        > > >>is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y
                        > > >>towards
                        > > >>X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about
                        > >X,
                        > > >>but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I
                        > >think
                        > > >>about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
                        > > >>http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
                        > > >>
                        > > >>----- Original Message -----
                        > > >>From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                        > > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > >>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
                        > > >>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > Greetings, fellow archers...
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                        > > >> > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                        > > >> > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                        > > >> > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                        > > >> > handed bow.
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                        > > >> > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                        > > >> > considered wearing an eye patch...
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                        > > >> > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                        > > >> > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                        > > >> > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose
                        > >to
                        > > >> > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                        > > >> > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                        > > >> > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                        > > >> > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                        > > >> > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                        > > >> > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                        > > >> > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > -Evyenios
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > > >> > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                        > > >> > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >> >
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > > >>Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                        > > >>Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        > > >>
                        > > >>[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        > > >>
                        > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                        > > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        > > >
                        > > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                        > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        > >
                        > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        > >
                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >---8<---------------------------------------------
                        >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                        >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        >
                        >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Amber morgan
                        I know this wasn t my thread, but Thank you all for your time and commentary to the additional questions raised. I am a beginner and new to the society. Your
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 12, 2005
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                          I know this wasn't my thread, but Thank you all for your time and commentary
                          to the additional questions raised. I am a beginner and new to the society.
                          Your help has been an invaluable intro.

                          Respectfully,
                          Amber



                          -------------------------------------------------------
                          -arrow shelves
                          Period sources refer to built up shelves of horn or cork and so would be
                          allowable on a period longbow, it is the cutout which moves them to open
                          division.

                          ----------------------------------------------
                          -short people/long bows
                          So, if it's shorter than 8 feet you shouldn't have any
                          problem.

                          -----------------------------------------------------
                          - :)
                          Baron bows had some for sale.
                        • ld.blackmoon
                          GREETINGS ... YES , IT IS POSSIBLE , I DO IT ....... IF YOU CHOOSE TO LEARN TO FOCUS SHOOT . BUT , I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING FOR OVER 30 YEARS, I M A FOCUS
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 22, 2005
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                            GREETINGS

                            >1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to
                            > shoot a right- handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant?
                            YES , IT IS POSSIBLE , I DO IT .......
                            IF YOU CHOOSE TO LEARN TO FOCUS SHOOT .
                            BUT , I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING FOR OVER 30 YEARS, I'M A " FOCUS
                            " SHOOTER BY NATURE AND INCLINATION .
                            HAVING JUST LEARNED TO " AIM " WHEN I TOOK OVER THE
                            POSITION OF BARONIAL ARCHERY MARSHAL .
                            SO THAT I COULD TEACH THAT THAT STYLE OF SHOOTING AS WELL .
                            I ALSO SHOOT EITHER HANDED .
                            >2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been
                            > seriously practicing archery for the past 4 months, I
                            > don't have an enormous time spent on the line that I
                            > would be sacrificing. My scores stand a chance of
                            > improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                            >
                            AS LONG AS YOU " AIM " YES IT COULD BE " WORTH IT " BESIDES
                            , IT NEVER HURTS TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT EITHER HANDED .

                            BE SAFE, BE HAPPY, HAVE FUN
                            ARTHUR BLACKMOON
                            > Greetings, fellow archers...
                            >
                            > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the
                            > Kingdom of Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des
                            > Moines, Iowa). After about 6 months of steady practice, I
                            > learned that I am left-eye dominant, even though I've
                            > been practicing archery with a right- handed bow.
                            >
                            > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just
                            > thought everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was!
                            > I had even considered wearing an eye patch...
                            >
                            > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to
                            > release the bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple
                            > folks' left-handed bows, and my "sight picture," (if you
                            > want to borrow a term from marksmanship), looked a lot
                            > clearer.
                            >
                            > So here are some questions I have for those on this list
                            > who choose to respond, either here or to my own e-mail at
                            > ebrads@h...
                            >
                            > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to
                            > shoot a right- handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant?
                            > Do any of you do this?
                            >
                            > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been
                            > seriously practicing archery for the past 4 months, I
                            > don't have an enormous time spent on the line that I
                            > would be sacrificing. My scores stand a chance of
                            > improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                            >
                            > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out
                            > your correct eye dominance? How long did it take your
                            > shooting form to recover, and your scores to return to
                            > their previous levels?
                            >
                            > -Evyenios
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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