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Re: [SCA-Archery] (unknown)

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  • Jack Bradley
    I think you cut the nocks 90 degrees to the grain of wood 180 is just the other side of the shaft Ragnar
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 17, 2000
      I think you cut the nocks 90 degrees to the grain of wood 180 is just the
      other side of the shaft
      Ragnar

      Michael vanBergen wrote:

      > From: Michael vanBergen <mvb2@...>
      >
      > Most period knocks were just cut into the wood at 180 degrees to the
      > grain of wood so it wouldnt split. Many times that was then reinforced
      > with a wrap at or just below the cut of the wood. There were period
      > formed and attached knocks but other than to use bone, I dont know much
      > of it.
      >
      > How long will period knocked arrows last? No less than other arrows.
      > Unless you have the tendency to robin hood your own arrows, like the
      > handful I showed you of my own arrows. Add on knocks, be they plastic or
      > otherwise, protect the shaft better than bare shafts with knocks cut into
      > them
      >
      > Period fletch could have come from many different bird feathers and
      > sometimes paper was used. The most common birds were peacock and grey
      > goose. You saw my goose fletch which can be bought. I havent seen peacock
      > fletch available. Still, we here have a souce for the feathers, from Old
      > Bear's farm halfway to Hutch where he raises peacocks. He shot for
      > Vatavia when Stephen was just getting started. I have a sack of them from
      > last years batch of dropped feathers. This is a topic to do when we can
      > sit and talk. I know that the best feather is the flight feather which
      > has most of its feather on just one side of the quill, yet others can be
      > used, but just exactly which ones, is a question I need to ask of Leif.
      > Todays feather fletch is colored turkey feather.
      >
      > While eagles are birds, they are birds of prey and their feathers arent
      > for common use. Even indians have to register a bird downed in order to
      > be legally free to use the feathers.
      >
      > Period points can be obtained, as I have some fromone particluar maker,
      > but are more easily shown in pictures. In the book, The English
      > Longbowmen", part of the Osprey warrior series, the varied forms are
      > shown. I have this book. Period points for target use would have a bigger
      > area behind the sharp tip which would keep the arrow from penetrating
      > deeply into the target. Thats what the ridge right behind the tip on the
      > field points does, to slow the impact.
      >
      > Michael vanBergen
      >
      > On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:06:51 -0500 Eric & Mary Ward
      > <ecward@...> writes:
      > > From: Eric & Mary Ward <ecward@...>
      > >
      > > Hi everyone -
      > > I'm new to the list, and to SCA (1 year membership),
      > > so
      > > there's lots I want to know from some of you more experienced
      > > archers. I'm
      > > just getting my first bow (osage orange D-profile longbow) and have
      > > some
      > > questions about period nocks and fletching for the period section of
      > > IKAC.
      > > Where does one find period fletching? Our local archery shop
      > > does
      > > not, to my knowledge, stock any.
      > > How long will a set of arrows last with real period nocks?
      > > What about period points for targets?
      > > And any others you might think I need to know, please.
      > >
      > > Thanks in advance for your time and expertise,
      > >
      > > Owen Howell
      > >
      > > Archer, Barony of Vatavia, Kingdom of Calontir
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Owen, Dub Essa, & Barrett
      > >
      > >
      > > "I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow..."-
      > > Frank Zappa
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • ravn@ravn.mv.com
      Greetings, I cut them at the 90 degree mark (in other words, against the grain), up to now just filing in the cut with a 1/8 round file. I make a starting cut
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 20, 2000
        Greetings,

        I cut them at the 90 degree mark (in other words, against the grain), up to
        now just filing in the cut with a 1/8 round file. I make a starting cut
        with a small triangle file to keep it straight. (see question below).


        Then 10-15 wraps of artificial sinew (keeping the flat sides flat and
        trying not to overlap much. It will help seal them and keep them from
        getting fuzzy and messy if you finish them off with some varnish or Duco
        cement.

        Now my question...has anyone experimented with using a dremel to expedite
        the process? I just got one and haven't had much luck with the router (the
        stock wiggles too much and the cuts are badly skewed). I've had better
        luck stacking 4 of the #400 cutting wheels. Any reccomendations out there?

        (in anticipation...no, it isn't period...no, I wouldn't do this for an A&E
        or 'braggin' arrows', and yes I'm lazy ;)

        Calum Friseal
        Barony of Stonemarche


        At 08:08 PM 3/17/00 -0500, you wrote:
        >From: Jack Bradley <ragnar@...>
        >
        >I think you cut the nocks 90 degrees to the grain of wood 180 is just the
        >other side of the shaft
        >Ragnar
        >
      • Yaakov or Ralph
        Greetings, I am sure there are some that would use a dremil tool to make the self nocks. I on the other hand use 2 hack saw blades taped together at the ends
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 20, 2000
          Greetings,

          I am sure there are some that would use a dremil tool to make the self
          nocks. I on the other hand use 2 hack saw blades taped together at the ends
          and hand cut against the grain. This works for me, I mostly make xbow bolt
          though.

          Mar Yaakov Avraham ben Obadiah
          Ludicrous (and a silly one at that) Bowman of the Knowne World

          -----Original Message-----
          From: ravn@... [mailto:ravn@...]
          Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 2:31 PM
          To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: self nocks


          From: ravn@...

          Greetings,

          I cut them at the 90 degree mark (in other words, against the grain), up
          to
          now just filing in the cut with a 1/8 round file. I make a starting cut
          with a small triangle file to keep it straight. (see question below).


          Then 10-15 wraps of artificial sinew (keeping the flat sides flat and
          trying not to overlap much. It will help seal them and keep them from
          getting fuzzy and messy if you finish them off with some varnish or Duco
          cement.

          Now my question...has anyone experimented with using a dremel to expedite
          the process? I just got one and haven't had much luck with the router
          (the
          stock wiggles too much and the cuts are badly skewed). I've had better
          luck stacking 4 of the #400 cutting wheels. Any reccomendations out
          there?

          (in anticipation...no, it isn't period...no, I wouldn't do this for an A&E
          or 'braggin' arrows', and yes I'm lazy ;)

          Calum Friseal
          Barony of Stonemarche


          At 08:08 PM 3/17/00 -0500, you wrote:
          >From: Jack Bradley <ragnar@...>
          >
          >I think you cut the nocks 90 degrees to the grain of wood 180 is just the
          >other side of the shaft
          >Ragnar
          >



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        • cgelszus@gmx.net
          ... Greetings all, Well, you can do your work much quicker using power tools - but it s also much quicker to mess it up. And fixing the width of a mis-cut nock
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 20, 2000
            > Now my question...has anyone experimented with using a dremel to
            > expedite
            > the process? I just got one and haven't had much luck with the router
            > (the
            > stock wiggles too much and the cuts are badly skewed). I've had better
            > luck stacking 4 of the #400 cutting wheels. Any reccomendations out
            > there?

            Greetings all,

            Well, you can do your work much quicker using power tools - but it's also
            much quicker to mess it up. And fixing the width of a mis-cut nock will take
            much more time than cutting it by hand (to fix a nock that's too wide I'm
            applying epoxy to the inner sides of the nock and then resand it). I tried
            powercutting nocks in the past and dropped it - the manual cutting just gives
            me more control and makes me feel better. What I do to speed up the process
            is first to use a saw with two screw-clamps that take the blade. Then I grab
            a couple of very thin blades and wrap them together with thin copper wire
            to form some kind of 'sawing-block' a little slimmer then the nock width
            desired. This block is clamped into the saw and used for cutting. With a needle
            file I then adjust the nock width. My Dremel is used for a quick rounding of
            the edges.

            Good luck!

            William

            --
            Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
          • Guy Taylor
            I ve used a Dremel to very good effect to make self-nocks. The problems can occur if you try to free-hand it. I fastened my Dremel down and put the shaft in
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 20, 2000
              I've used a Dremel to very good effect to make self-nocks. The problems can
              occur if you try to free-hand it. I fastened my Dremel down and put the
              shaft in a simple V-block to keep it steady and headed in the right
              direction. If the Dremel blade is slightly off-center to the V-block one
              cut can be made, the shaft turned over and another cut made, then just clean
              out the material between the two cuts and you have the right width. For me
              the best blade had been a small saw blade with teeth. The cut off wheels
              didn't work well for me.

              Taillear


              > From: ravn@...
              >
              > Greetings,

              ::snip::

              > Now my question...has anyone experimented with using a dremel to expedite
              > the process? I just got one and haven't had much luck with the router
              (the
              > stock wiggles too much and the cuts are badly skewed). I've had better
              > luck stacking 4 of the #400 cutting wheels. Any reccomendations out
              there?
              >
              > (in anticipation...no, it isn't period...no, I wouldn't do this for an A&E
              > or 'braggin' arrows', and yes I'm lazy ;)
              >
              > Calum Friseal
              > Barony of Stonemarche
            • bloodsng@aol.com
              This is what my lady and I use also
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 20, 2000
                This is what my lady and I use also
              • bloodsng@aol.com
                In a message dated 3/20/00 1:26:10 PM Central Standard Time, ravn@ravn.mv.com writes: I think you cut the nocks 90 degrees to the grain of wood 180 is just
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 20, 2000
                  In a message dated 3/20/00 1:26:10 PM Central Standard Time, ravn@...
                  writes:

                  << >I think you cut the nocks 90 degrees to the grain of wood 180 is just the
                  >other side of the shaft
                  >Ragnar
                  > >>
                  I like using the 2 saw method for the string receiver then take one blade and
                  cut making a + then put a PC of bone or horn into (cementing it) this
                  reinforces the shaft and cuts down on shaft splitting
                • Susanna MacLennan
                  ... My experience with using the dremel to expedite nock making: Suggest you drill a hole through the shaft with a small dremel bit where the bottom of the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 21, 2000
                    >Now my question...has anyone experimented with using a dremel to expedite
                    >the process?

                    My experience with using the dremel to expedite nock making:
                    Suggest you drill a hole through the shaft with a small dremel bit where the
                    bottom of the nock will be. Then take a knife, cut out the notch and then
                    use the dremel to shape out the nock.

                    Hope this helps,
                    Lord Johannes Linkehant
                  • Alberic
                    Greetings: A fairly easy alternative would be to build some sort of wooden block that holds the dremel body, and then drill a shaft sized hole into it at right
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 21, 2000
                      Greetings:

                      A fairly easy alternative would be to build some sort of wooden block
                      that holds the dremel body, and then drill a shaft sized hole into it at
                      right angles to the axis of the dremel. Place it so that a shaft stuck
                      into the hole will intersect the cut-off wheels at right angles, and
                      away you go. Just make sure you don't twist as you insert it. (Wear
                      glasses! cut-off wheels shatter at the drop of a hat. There's a reason
                      they're sold in 100 boxes.)
                      Depth will (ultimately) be controled by the remaining radius of the disks.
                      As they wear down, the slots will get shorter, but that'll take a few shafts.
                      (like 20+)
                      Should be pretty quick and painless. (Stack wheels to control slot thickness.)

                      Cheers-
                      Alberic
                    • JimHart ConalO'hAirt
                      just had a little laugh this morning I was reading this email... the following section was all that came up on the screen at first... ... At this point my
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 22, 2000
                        just had a little laugh this morning
                        I was reading this email...

                        the following section
                        was all that came up on the screen at first...

                        >From: "Susanna MacLennan" <susanna@...>
                        >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                        >To: <SCA-Archery@onelist.com>
                        >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: self nocks
                        >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:34:23 -0700
                        >
                        > >Now my question...has anyone experimented with using a dremel to expedite
                        > >the process?
                        >
                        >My experience with using the dremel to expedite nock making:

                        At this point my imagination took over and I pictured the rest of the text
                        could be in my head.

                        oops...
                        Darn it...
                        grrr....
                        Doh!
                        DAMN!
                        AAAUGH!
                        I QUIT!!!!


                        Sorry had to share the laugh
                        (hey I'm in a good mood, I'm leaving for
                        London at 2:00pm )

                        Conal
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                      • mohun1066@aol.com
                        In a message dated 3/22/00 6:59:49 AM Central Standard Time, ohairt@hotmail.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 22, 2000
                          In a message dated 3/22/00 6:59:49 AM Central Standard Time,
                          ohairt@... writes:

                          << (hey I'm in a good mood, I'm leaving for
                          London at 2:00pm )
                          >>

                          Wow! Have a great trip.

                          Robert
                        • Ulric the Hawke
                          Heres another thought: If you re Very Careful, a Dremmel can be used.... However I Would Strongly Suggest that you go Purchase several Pine Dowel Rods, and
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 22, 2000
                            Heres another thought:

                            If you're Very Careful, a Dremmel can be used....
                            However I Would Strongly Suggest that you go Purchase several
                            Pine Dowel Rods, and Practice Cutting the Self-Nocks.

                            Because Pine is a Harder Wood than Cedar.... (See Where I'm
                            going with This?) ... Once You've Mastered this Process...
                            then you Can be Making Self-Nocks rather Easily.
                            (Heres the Real Plus.... By Using Pine Dowel Rods for Practice
                            Purposes, you'll Only be out Something like 50 Cents if you mess up on the
                            Cut)

                            I hope this Advice will be of Service to You....


                            Ulrich the Hawke
                            Sable Arrow Archery Guild
                            Kingdom of Ansteorra





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                          • ravn@ravn.mv.com
                            Thanks everyone for the input/advice...it has all been helpful in one way or another! What I ve done with this set is a combination of old and new technology.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 22, 2000
                              Thanks everyone for the input/advice...it has all been helpful in one way
                              or another!

                              What I've done with this set is a combination of old and new technology.
                              The dremel worked pretty well for making the initial cut, using two of the
                              emery cutting wheels and making a couple of passes. (and for me it was
                              faster and easier than sawing or filing it out). Then I finished it out
                              with my rattail file and sandpaper. The end result is a better nock, and
                              _next_ time it should even be quicker and easier...;)

                              I didn't even try this until after practicing on several old shafts, that
                              took a little while...

                              calum
                            • Susanna MacLennan
                              ... Thanks for the laugh!!! Glad we could help!!! Jealous of your trip... Susanna for Johannes
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 23, 2000
                                re: Conal's imagination and dremel use...i.e.:

                                >oops...
                                >Darn it...
                                >grrr....
                                >Doh!
                                >DAMN!
                                >AAAUGH!
                                >I QUIT!!!!

                                Thanks for the laugh!!!
                                Glad we could help!!!
                                Jealous of your trip...

                                Susanna for Johannes
                              • John Rockwell
                                Greetings to the list Thanks for the tips on making period nocks. Sunday I got suckered into making 3 arrows with period nocks. The kind Lords and Ladies of
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 23, 2000
                                  Greetings to the list

                                  Thanks for the tips on making period nocks. Sunday I got suckered into
                                  making 3 arrows with period nocks. The kind Lords and Ladies of the list
                                  gave me the information I needed to take up the challenge. Tonight I
                                  completed the arrows including wrapping thread around the feather tips
                                  though the feathers and below the nocks.

                                  These arrows will be used during the Tournament Season. The winning Archer
                                  will be given an arrow to present to the Baroness. At that time the
                                  Baroness will present the prize.

                                  HAZZZZZZZZAAAAAAHHHH I DID IT (pat on own back)


                                  YIS
                                  Ian Griffen
                                • bloodsng@aol.com
                                  way to go
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 24, 2000
                                    way to go
                                  • Carl (checking home mail from work)
                                    ... I reinforce my self nocks with linen (same stuff I use to make my bowstrings) soaked with hide glue. The shafts are maple. I once nock-shot one of these
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 12, 2001
                                      Christian Gelszus wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Greetings!
                                      >
                                      > I also have made some good experience using self-nocked 5/16 shafts (ELB,
                                      > 37#). However, I would strongly recommend to reinforce the nock somehow. My
                                      > first good set had no reinforcements and I lost a couple of arrows through
                                      > splitting or breaking nocks. However, none of this happened after I wrapped
                                      > the area just below the nock. The last set got Cocobolo nock
                                      > reinforcements - no failure so far, and they look rather spiffy! :o) Also
                                      > cutting less deep nocks and limiting nock width to the minimum will help to
                                      > reduce stress on the 'wings' of the nock.

                                      I reinforce my self nocks with linen (same stuff I use to make my
                                      bowstrings) soaked with hide glue. The shafts are maple. I once
                                      nock-shot one of these with a bodkin point and it _stuck_ there, the
                                      linen held the shaft together! (I took it back to camp, soaked it to
                                      de-compress the wood fibers, gave it a little hide glue, re-wrapped it,
                                      and shot it two days later [it's been nock-shot and fixed again since])

                                      Fritz (the frugal)
                                    • Michael Scherrer
                                      Shaft sizes common for wood 5/16 11/32 23/64 ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 12, 2001
                                        Shaft sizes common for wood
                                        5/16
                                        11/32
                                        23/64

                                        >
                                        >
                                        >There're two sizes, basically, of arrow stock, yes?
                                        >5/16 and the next size bigger (which i cannot
                                        >remember, either!).

                                        _________________________________________________________________
                                        Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                                      • Hal B. Clark
                                        This method works fine on my 57# recurve as well. I use the 5/16 shaft Walk Tall Gentle ben
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jul 12, 2001
                                          This method works fine on my 57# recurve as well. I use the 5/16 shaft
                                          Walk Tall
                                          Gentle ben

                                          Nest verch Tangwystyl wrote:

                                          > > 5/16 shafting did not work for my self nocks off of a 40 lb recurve.
                                          > >
                                          > > James Cunningham
                                          >
                                          > I have been using 5/16 shafts which are self nocked on my 40 lb longbow
                                          > for months now. The only ones which have broken are arrows which have been
                                          > hit. I just cut across the grain, no reinforcement, and wrap just below
                                          > the nock with silk thread. I cut them with a dremmel grinder after
                                          > penciling on a line where I want them. Not very period method of doing it,
                                          > but it gets the job done quickly.
                                          >
                                          > My husband uses self nocked arrows made the same way on his 40 pound
                                          > recurve, but they are the next size up (I can't remember the diameter just
                                          > now). He has only been using his for a few weeks, but hasn't seen a
                                          > problem yet. These are actually arrows I made for the longbow, but they
                                          > flew better off his bow.
                                          >
                                          > Nest verch Tangwystyl
                                          >
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                                        • Mike O'Toole
                                          Hi all, just thought I would add in my two groats worth: The problem you describe may stem from (my experience) that 40 lbs spine is right on the border for
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jul 12, 2001
                                            Hi all,

                                            just thought I would add in my two groats worth:

                                            The problem you describe may stem from (my experience) that 40 lbs spine
                                            is right on the border for 5/16" inch shafts and 11/32" shafts. If the
                                            shafts in question are factory spined they may range from ~30-35 lbs to
                                            40-45 lb spine (again my experience only in shafts originally from Rose
                                            City)

                                            If you were to cut a self knock in an arrow shaft with a spine of 30-35
                                            pounds (possible within my realm of experience for 40-45 lb factory
                                            spined arrow shafts) and shoot it in a rather efficient recurve
                                            dynamically tested to need 40-45 pound I would guess there MAY be a
                                            problem. It is not an arrow I would shoot from that bow on a regular
                                            regular basis. However I have found 44 and 45 pound 5/16" spine shafts
                                            in the 30-35 factory spined bin that I would have no qualms shooting
                                            with my Martin X200 recurve assuming I wrapped and glued the self nock.

                                            Thoroughly confused?

                                            That is probably a good thing

                                            In a nutshell I have measured factory spined arrows to be plus/minus 10
                                            pounds of the stated spine.

                                            Michael O'Byrne

                                            --- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Nest verch Tangwystyl" <eastarch@...>
                                            To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:55 AM
                                            Subject: [SCA-Archery] re:self nocks


                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > 5/16 shafting did not work for my self nocks off of a 40 lb recurve.
                                            > >
                                            > > James Cunningham
                                          • greytaylor@worldnet.att.net
                                            ... plus/minus 10 ... Herein lies the best reason to buy hand spined shafts from a GOOD shop with a GOOD reputation in the traditional archery community. Every
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jul 12, 2001
                                              --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "Mike O'Toole" <mike.otoole@h...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > In a nutshell I have measured factory spined arrows to be
                                              plus/minus 10
                                              > pounds of the stated spine.
                                              >
                                              > Michael O'Byrne


                                              Herein lies the best reason to buy hand spined shafts from a GOOD
                                              shop with a GOOD reputation in the traditional archery community.
                                              Every hand spined and sorted shaft I have ever purchased from a good
                                              shop has had both the spine and the weight (in grains) of the
                                              individual shaft written on the end of said shaft. There is a shop
                                              (frequently recommended on this and other SCA Archery lists) that I
                                              will no longer purchase shafts from because my measurements, and
                                              other archer's measurements, prove to me that they lie about their
                                              sorting of shafts. Your shooting is only as good as your ammo. Or,
                                              to mis-quote an old archer, "Any damn stick will make a bow, it takes
                                              a heap of work to make a good arrow."

                                              Shop where you trust the source.

                                              Taillear
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