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Eye dominance and archery?

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  • Evyenios Athanasiou
    Greetings, fellow archers... My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa).
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 1, 2005
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      Greetings, fellow archers...

      My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
      Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
      about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
      dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
      handed bow.

      I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
      everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
      considered wearing an eye patch...

      So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
      bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
      and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
      marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.

      So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
      respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...

      1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
      handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?

      2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
      practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
      time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
      chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.

      3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
      correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
      recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?

      -Evyenios
    • Kaleyna
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 7, 2005
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        <<<<1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
        handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?<<<<


        I am actually right eye dominant, but left handed. I do most sports with my
        right hand though and used my right the first time I picked up a bow (which
        was just this past year so take this as novice advice) but then I switched
        to left hand for some other reasons and I seem to be doing okay. I might be
        doing better with a right handed bow since I am right eye dominant but I
        think it is possible to shoot and develop your skills with either hand. I
        would think trying it out and seeing how it feels to you is important.

        Kathy
      • Olga for now
        Evyenios, I m also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right eye, and I ve pondered these questions myself. I haven t played archery for
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 7, 2005
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          Evyenios,

          I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
          eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery for
          years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and error
          you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if it's
          the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others are
          seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday and
          just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.

          Warmest Regards,

          Olga for now
          Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir

          A stranger said it best,
          "If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about X?" it
          is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y towards
          X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about X,
          but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I think
          about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
          http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
          To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?


          >
          >
          >
          > Greetings, fellow archers...
          >
          > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
          > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
          > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
          > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
          > handed bow.
          >
          > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
          > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
          > considered wearing an eye patch...
          >
          > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
          > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
          > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
          > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
          >
          > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
          > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
          >
          > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
          > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
          >
          > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
          > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
          > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
          > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
          >
          > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
          > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
          > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
          >
          > -Evyenios
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
          > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
          >
          > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Scott Jaqua
          ... Sight picture is also the correct term for archers. ... Several here should be able to help. As some of us are cross dominant. And some, like myself were
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 7, 2005
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            Evyenios Athanasiou wrote:

            >(Snip)
            >So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
            >bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
            >and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
            >marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
            >
            >
            Sight picture is also the correct term for archers.

            >So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
            >respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
            >
            >
            Several here should be able to help. As some of us are cross dominant.
            And some, like myself were born left handed and force to be right handed
            at an early age.

            >1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
            >handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
            >
            >
            Yes it's possible. But, you have to train your eyes. Usually with an eye
            patch. And it can cause other problems with perspective and your ability
            to judge distances.

            >2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
            >practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
            >time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
            >chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
            >
            >
            Everyone I know has come out on top after making the switch. Even those
            with a fair amount of experience using the other hand.

            >3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
            >correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
            >recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
            >
            >
            My shooting recovered in a matter of a couple of weeks of not too heavy
            practice (2hours, 2 times a week,so maybe 8-10 hours total).

            Njall
          • Carolus von Eulenhorst
            I shot for about 2 years right handed ( I am right handed) before finding out about my left dominant eye. The switch took about the same time. I found my
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 7, 2005
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              I shot for about 2 years right handed ( I am right handed) before finding
              out about my left dominant eye. The switch took about the same time. I
              found my shooting improved vastly and became much easier after the
              switch. Another benefit for me was that as I was shooting Olympic style
              with a physically heavy bow (nearly 8 lbs plus leverage factors) this had
              me holding the bow with my stronger arm and made my shooting much more stable.
              Carolus

              At 04:03 PM 1/7/2005, you wrote:


              >Evyenios Athanasiou wrote:
              >
              > >(Snip)
              >
              > >3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
              > >correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
              > >recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?


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            • Dan Martin
              This may or may not count. Im not SCA but I enjoy the information. I run a boys archery group men to. But I dont shoot compitition, other than 3D comps. I
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 7, 2005
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                This may or may not count. Im not SCA but I enjoy the information. I run a boys archery group men to. But I dont shoot compitition, other than 3D comps.
                I shoot instintive. eye Dom doesnt matter. Im left eye dominate right handed due to injury. I was able to stay in the army because I learned to shoot rifle left handed.
                Instintive shooting takes sights and angle out of the picture. I wont cut five in a three inch circle but I will put five in the kill zone. Other advantage is you shoot much much faster.
                Try it. Again if your after perfection of shot instictive isnt for you.
                I have incorperated it into rifle pistol and bow. I only shoot long bows and recure with either side capable to shoot.
                If your after detail hits instictive will not work. If you want to hunt and shoot 3D its a very hard tecnique to beat. The hardest part is learning not to ain let you eye and arrow go the same place. Try it you will be surprised.
                I do it with my compound as well. Just dont like compound bows.


                Carolus von Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@...> wrote:

                I shot for about 2 years right handed ( I am right handed) before finding
                out about my left dominant eye. The switch took about the same time. I
                found my shooting improved vastly and became much easier after the
                switch. Another benefit for me was that as I was shooting Olympic style
                with a physically heavy bow (nearly 8 lbs plus leverage factors) this had
                me holding the bow with my stronger arm and made my shooting much more stable.
                Carolus

                At 04:03 PM 1/7/2005, you wrote:


                >Evyenios Athanasiou wrote:
                >
                > >(Snip)
                >
                > >3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                > >correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                > >recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?


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                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005




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              • james kennedy
                ... Have you considered learning the Mongolian thumb release? I m sure that there are many on this list that can help you with this. cnute
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 8, 2005
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                  > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                  > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?

                  Have you considered learning the Mongolian thumb release? I'm sure
                  that there are many on this list that can help you with this.

                  cnute



                  __________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
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                • Talmon Parker
                  Hi Olga! I m Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car wreak, that
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 8, 2005
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                    Hi Olga!
                    I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                    basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car wreak,
                    that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an old
                    grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a right
                    handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed with
                    my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
                    Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on, But
                    I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy enough,
                    but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows when
                    you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
                    As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All that
                    is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
                    fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye patch, to
                    help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better if
                    I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have aquired
                    the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only fun,
                    but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will help
                    take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
                    I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
                    heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit behind
                    the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
                    that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.

                    At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who didn't
                    want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably find
                    your scores will go up some too.

                    Lots of luck and keep shooting
                    Baron Talmon


                    DER BARON




                    >From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                    >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                    >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
                    >
                    >
                    >Evyenios,
                    >
                    >I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
                    >eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery for
                    >years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and error
                    >you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if it's
                    >the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others are
                    >seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday and
                    >just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
                    >
                    >Warmest Regards,
                    >
                    >Olga for now
                    >Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
                    >
                    >A stranger said it best,
                    >"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about X?"
                    >it
                    >is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y towards
                    >X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about X,
                    >but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I think
                    >about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
                    >http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                    >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
                    >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Greetings, fellow archers...
                    > >
                    > > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                    > > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                    > > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                    > > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                    > > handed bow.
                    > >
                    > > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                    > > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                    > > considered wearing an eye patch...
                    > >
                    > > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                    > > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                    > > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                    > > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                    > >
                    > > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
                    > > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                    > >
                    > > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                    > > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                    > >
                    > > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                    > > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                    > > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                    > > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                    > >
                    > > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                    > > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                    > > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                    > >
                    > > -Evyenios
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    > >
                    > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Olga for now
                    Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I m a sap for protocol) I m a little over 5 ft... I don t know yet if that means I ll need a very short long bow
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 8, 2005
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                      Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I'm a sap for protocol)
                      I'm a little over 5 ft... I don't know yet if that means I'll need a very
                      short long bow or if a long bow's not realistic option but I'll look into
                      that in the coming season..and thank you for the heads-up! Luckily, I
                      started off as a left handed writer before being switched right. My logic
                      here is that muscles have memory + I can see better with my left too...so
                      looking into left-handed shooting shouldn't be any harder than picking up a
                      bow for the first time to shoot right, right? Looking at the recurve I have
                      now, there is a good portion of wood cut out (cave) where one nocks the
                      arrows. I assume this is for visibility. Holding it with the right and
                      drawing with the left however "switches" this visibility somewhat. I'm
                      hoping to find a bow where the "gouge/caving" and the arrow rest have been
                      placed mirror of normal for left shooters-ie on the right side of the bow
                      instead of the left.--do you know what I mean? Have you seen these?

                      Warmest Regards,
                      Olga

                      > Hi Olga!
                      > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                      > basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car
                      > wreak,
                      > that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an
                      > old
                      > grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a right
                      > handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed with
                      > my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
                      > Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on,
                      > But
                      > I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy enough,
                      > but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows when
                      > you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
                      > As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All that
                      > is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
                      > fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye patch,
                      > to
                      > help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better
                      > if
                      > I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have
                      > aquired
                      > the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only
                      > fun,
                      > but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will
                      > help
                      > take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
                      > I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
                      > heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit behind
                      > the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
                      > that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.
                      >
                      > At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who didn't
                      > want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably
                      > find
                      > your scores will go up some too.
                      >
                      > Lots of luck and keep shooting
                      > Baron Talmon
                      >
                      >
                      > DER BARON
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                      >>Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                      >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                      >>Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                      >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>Evyenios,
                      >>
                      >>I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
                      >>eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery
                      >>for
                      >>years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and error
                      >>you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if
                      >>it's
                      >>the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others
                      >>are
                      >>seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday and
                      >>just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
                      >>
                      >>Warmest Regards,
                      >>
                      >>Olga for now
                      >>Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
                      >>
                      >>A stranger said it best,
                      >>"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about X?"
                      >>it
                      >>is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y
                      >>towards
                      >>X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about X,
                      >>but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I think
                      >>about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
                      >>http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
                      >>
                      >>----- Original Message -----
                      >>From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                      >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                      >>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
                      >>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Greetings, fellow archers...
                      >> >
                      >> > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                      >> > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                      >> > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                      >> > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                      >> > handed bow.
                      >> >
                      >> > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                      >> > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                      >> > considered wearing an eye patch...
                      >> >
                      >> > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                      >> > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                      >> > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                      >> > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                      >> >
                      >> > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
                      >> > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                      >> >
                      >> > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                      >> > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                      >> >
                      >> > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                      >> > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                      >> > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                      >> > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                      >> >
                      >> > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                      >> > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                      >> > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                      >> >
                      >> > -Evyenios
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                      >> > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      >> > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >> >
                      >> > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >> >
                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>---8<---------------------------------------------
                      >>Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      >>Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >>
                      >>[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >>
                      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
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                    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      The tendency to have problems with the little yellow circle is not unique. It is referred to as target panic when coaching. Experienced shooters who
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 8, 2005
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                        The tendency to have problems with the "little yellow circle" is not
                        unique. It is referred to as "target panic" when coaching. Experienced
                        shooters who generally hit what they're shooting at suddenly have a problem
                        getting that gold. They hit all around it but have a hard time getting
                        that little extra. And the real problem is that there is no real
                        explanation or cause. The only cure is to relax and don't try to fix
                        it. It will simply go away but it will be frustrating in the process.
                        Carolus

                        At 11:58 AM 1/8/2005, you wrote:



                        > Hi Olga!
                        > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                        >snip
                        >I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have aquired
                        >the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only fun,
                        >but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will help
                        >snip Lots of luck and keep shooting
                        > Baron Talmon
                        >
                        >
                        > DER BARON


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                      • Frederick Fenters
                        Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 04:51:01 -0000 From: Evyenios Athanasiou Subject: Eye dominance and archery? Greetings, fellow archers... My name
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                          Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 04:51:01 -0000
                          From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                          Subject: Eye dominance and archery?



                          Greetings, fellow archers...

                          My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                          Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                          about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                          dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                          handed bow.

                          I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                          everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                          considered wearing an eye patch...

                          So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                          bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                          and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                          marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.

                          So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
                          respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...

                          1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                          handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?

                          AElfric the Kestrell and William Ross, both friends of mine have dealt with
                          this. Will went the route of an eye patch, Aelfric just trained himself to
                          close his left eye to allign and release. I myself learned to drop focus on
                          my left eye (which drives my eye doctor crazy in some of the astigmatism
                          tests because I do it without thinking)

                          2. Is it worth it to switch hands?

                          Some say yes, some say no. How satisfied and comfortable are you shooting
                          right handed? Is equipment and cost going to be an issue for you? I did
                          not have left handed equipment available or I might have tried.

                          Since I've only been seriously
                          practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                          time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                          chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.

                          3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                          correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                          recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?

                          I'm afraid I can't answer these. When a bum shoulder and back forced me to
                          cut back on my hand bow shooting, a friend gifted me with an old PowerMaster
                          crossbow. I shot well enough to start making the Midrealm Archer Champions
                          teams for Pennsic and have upgraded my equipment as I have been able.

                          -Evyenios

                          Forester Padraig MacRaighne
                          Pentamere Regional Archery Marshal
                        • Kristine Casper
                          I learned to shoot left (left-eye dominant) but later changed to right (because my uncle had a right-hand bow he wasn t using and that was a lot less expensive
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                            I learned to shoot left (left-eye dominant) but later changed to right
                            (because my uncle had a right-hand bow he wasn't using and that was a lot
                            less expensive for me as a newbie). I've been shooting right for about two
                            years now. I use both my eyes to look beyond the bow/arrow and directly to
                            the target - that is, I don't consciously use the arrow to line up my
                            shots - and I don't have the double vision you describe.

                            I was considering changing back to left, but wanted to make sure that eye
                            dominance was making a difference to how my sight window aligned. So I paid
                            close attention to my sight window and my right eye is definitely dominant!
                            If I do the peek-through-my-hands trick to check dominance, I am left-eye
                            dominant - every time. I picked up a left handed bow anyway and found that
                            my right eye remained dominant. Sounds weird, but I guess my right eye
                            became trained to dominate when I shoot. I'm sure it would change back if I
                            shot left over time.

                            I also believe that in truly instinctive shooting (not gap shooting), it
                            doesn't matter that much, as both eyes are trained on the target. At least
                            that's how it is for me.

                            Laebeth

                            P.S. If you use a bow without a cut-out arrow rest, you can do both!

                            >
                            > Greetings, fellow archers...
                            >
                            > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                            > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                            > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                            > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                            > handed bow.
                            >
                            > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                            > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                            > considered wearing an eye patch...
                            >
                            > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                            > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                            > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                            > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                            >
                            > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
                            > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                            >
                            > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                            > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                            >
                            > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                            > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                            > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                            > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                            >
                            > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                            > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                            > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                            >
                            > -Evyenios
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                          • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                            This apparent contradiction is really quite common. I had an ophthalmologist friend explain the process to me. When you use the peep hole method of
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                              This apparent contradiction is really quite common. I had an
                              ophthalmologist friend explain the process to me. When you use the peep
                              hole method of determining dominance, the brain is taken out of the
                              equation and the purely physical response takes over. This is true
                              dominance. When simply keeping both eyes on an object and attempting the
                              determine dominance, the brain will subconsciously correct the image the
                              return the desired response. While this will work in general for most
                              vision matters, it becomes a hindrance when trying to perform complex
                              functions involving balance, multiple muscle adjustments, and the like
                              (activities such as archery). As the earlier poster mentioned about
                              instinctive shooting, if you are just trying to get off that one shot to a
                              kill zone this is fine. If, on the other hand, you are trying for modern
                              target accuracy or trying to get that NFAA field mouse patch, it isn't as
                              good. So much of the importance lies in where your priorities in archery lie.
                              Carolus

                              At 12:33 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:


                              >I learned to shoot left (left-eye dominant) but later changed to right
                              >(because my uncle had a right-hand bow he wasn't using and that was a lot
                              >less expensive for me as a newbie). I've been shooting right for about two
                              >years now. I use both my eyes to look beyond the bow/arrow and directly to
                              >the target - that is, I don't consciously use the arrow to line up my
                              >shots - and I don't have the double vision you describe.
                              >
                              >I was considering changing back to left, but wanted to make sure that eye
                              >dominance was making a difference to how my sight window aligned. So I paid
                              >close attention to my sight window and my right eye is definitely dominant!
                              >If I do the peek-through-my-hands trick to check dominance, I am left-eye
                              >dominant - every time. I picked up a left handed bow anyway and found that
                              >my right eye remained dominant. Sounds weird, but I guess my right eye
                              >became trained to dominate when I shoot. I'm sure it would change back if I
                              >shot left over time.
                              >
                              >I also believe that in truly instinctive shooting (not gap shooting), it
                              >doesn't matter that much, as both eyes are trained on the target. At least
                              >that's how it is for me.
                              >
                              >Laebeth
                              >
                              >P.S. If you use a bow without a cut-out arrow rest, you can do both!
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Greetings, fellow archers...
                              > >
                              > > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                              > > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                              > > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                              > > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                              > > handed bow.
                              > >
                              > > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                              > > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                              > > considered wearing an eye patch...
                              > >
                              > > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                              > > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                              > > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                              > > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                              > >
                              > > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose to
                              > > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                              > >
                              > > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                              > > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                              > >
                              > > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                              > > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                              > > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                              > > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                              > >
                              > > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                              > > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                              > > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                              > >
                              > > -Evyenios
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
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                            • mark s graves
                              The eye dominance thing can be tricky. Have you tried closing your left eye when you shoot. I have an eye issue too, that has the same effect as you
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                                The eye dominance thing can be tricky. Have you tried closing your left
                                eye when you shoot. I have an eye issue too, that has the same effect
                                as you describe and I shoot wonderfully by closing one eye. It may be
                                easier to do this if you are naturally right-handed......I started by
                                wearing a patch, and after awhile I didn't need it and could shoot by
                                just closing one eye.....Try this first before completely relearning to
                                shoot...Hope that this helps.......William Ross of Skye
                              • Mark Hendershott
                                ... I shoot right handed and find it helpful to close my left eye. Given my usual scores I hesitate of say this is a cure for anything in my case but I am
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                                  At 06:22 PM 1/9/2005, you wrote:

                                  >The eye dominance thing can be tricky. Have you tried closing your left
                                  >eye when you shoot. I have an eye issue too, that has the same effect
                                  >as you describe and I shoot wonderfully by closing one eye. It may be
                                  >easier to do this if you are naturally right-handed......I started by
                                  >wearing a patch, and after awhile I didn't need it and could shoot by
                                  >just closing one eye.....Try this first before completely relearning to
                                  >shoot...Hope that this helps.......William Ross of Skye
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >--

                                  I shoot right handed and find it helpful to close my left eye. Given my
                                  usual scores I hesitate of say this is a cure for anything in my case but I
                                  am left eye dominant.

                                  Simon Sinneghe
                                  Briaroak, Summits, An Tir
                                • Lord Cain Saethydd
                                  ... right- ... I shoot both right and left handed. I am blessed with being near equal in eye dominance. ... a ... It is well worth the time of even
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 9, 2005
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                                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Evyenios Athanasiou"
                                    <ebrads@h...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > snipped
                                    >
                                    > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a
                                    right-
                                    > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?

                                    I shoot both right and left handed. I am blessed with being 'near
                                    equal' in eye dominance.

                                    >
                                    > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                                    > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                                    > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand
                                    a
                                    > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.

                                    It is well worth the time of even established masters to switch
                                    hands, occasionaly. Doing so shows the archery a great deal of
                                    potential flaws in thier form. Elmer, the author the Grey Goose Wing,
                                    and other fine books, was also a Medical Doctor. He encouraged anyone
                                    who was having dificulty with thier draw arm to switch hands. He
                                    touted the benefits of equalizing your practices (right and left
                                    hands both), as it excercised critical muscles in the shoulders, arms
                                    and back equaly. Thus ensuring better posture, greater comfort in
                                    everyday life, and (low and behold), improving your overall form.
                                    Many archers will find thier scores will improve slightly if the
                                    switch hands. Not at first, but over time.

                                    >
                                    > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                                    > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                                    > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?

                                    I shoot, (or rather shot), Bowmaster with both hands. But, as I
                                    said, I am essentialy neither eye dominant. Though, I will say this:
                                    close the 'off string' eye partialy, with out actualy squinting. The
                                    best hunters do this, as well as many counter-snipers. If you shoot
                                    both eyes open fully, you will get a confusing picture after awhile.
                                    Even when using your dominant eye. Many archers shoot only one eye
                                    open. This does work well for normal target shooting. If you tend to
                                    shoot at unkown distances, the 'partial closure' method give a
                                    profound advatage.

                                    Welcome to SCA Archery!

                                    Cain, Atenveldt

                                    >
                                    > -Evyenios
                                  • Talmon Parker
                                    Greetings once again Olga: The length of the long bow is misleading. After all, you are going to hold it in the middle of the bow, so that means you will have
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 11, 2005
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                                      Greetings once again Olga:
                                      The length of the long bow is misleading. After all, you are going to hold
                                      it in the middle of the bow, so that means you will have half of the length
                                      above your shoulders.So, if it's shorter than 8 feet you shouldn't have any
                                      problem. And yes they make a long bow that has a shelf on both sides of the
                                      grip. Baron bows had some for sale. I don't know if they still have them in
                                      stock or not. I find that they have resonable prices also.
                                      If the long bow has a shelf, it is not considered a traditional bow, and
                                      must be shot in the open class. The shelf is to allow you have a place to
                                      hold your arrow steady on the bow. It also allows you to put some kind of
                                      padding on the shelf so there is less damage to your fletching. It gives you
                                      a better line of sight down the arrow, toward the center of the bow.


                                      Once again I wish you the best of luck, And keep
                                      shooting

                                      Baron Talmon



                                      DER BARON




                                      >From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                                      >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                                      >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:40:13 -0800
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I'm a sap for protocol)
                                      >I'm a little over 5 ft... I don't know yet if that means I'll need a very
                                      >short long bow or if a long bow's not realistic option but I'll look into
                                      >that in the coming season..and thank you for the heads-up! Luckily, I
                                      >started off as a left handed writer before being switched right. My logic
                                      >here is that muscles have memory + I can see better with my left too...so
                                      >looking into left-handed shooting shouldn't be any harder than picking up a
                                      >bow for the first time to shoot right, right? Looking at the recurve I have
                                      >now, there is a good portion of wood cut out (cave) where one nocks the
                                      >arrows. I assume this is for visibility. Holding it with the right and
                                      >drawing with the left however "switches" this visibility somewhat. I'm
                                      >hoping to find a bow where the "gouge/caving" and the arrow rest have been
                                      >placed mirror of normal for left shooters-ie on the right side of the bow
                                      >instead of the left.--do you know what I mean? Have you seen these?
                                      >
                                      >Warmest Regards,
                                      >Olga
                                      >
                                      > > Hi Olga!
                                      > > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                                      > > basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car
                                      > > wreak,
                                      > > that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an
                                      > > old
                                      > > grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a
                                      >right
                                      > > handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed
                                      >with
                                      > > my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
                                      > > Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on,
                                      > > But
                                      > > I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy
                                      >enough,
                                      > > but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows
                                      >when
                                      > > you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
                                      > > As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All
                                      >that
                                      > > is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
                                      > > fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye
                                      >patch,
                                      > > to
                                      > > help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better
                                      > > if
                                      > > I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have
                                      > > aquired
                                      > > the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only
                                      > > fun,
                                      > > but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will
                                      > > help
                                      > > take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
                                      > > I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
                                      > > heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit
                                      >behind
                                      > > the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
                                      > > that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.
                                      > >
                                      > > At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who
                                      >didn't
                                      > > want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably
                                      > > find
                                      > > your scores will go up some too.
                                      > >
                                      > > Lots of luck and keep shooting
                                      > > Baron Talmon
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > DER BARON
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >>From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                                      > >>Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > >>Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                                      > >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>Evyenios,
                                      > >>
                                      > >>I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
                                      > >>eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery
                                      > >>for
                                      > >>years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and
                                      >error
                                      > >>you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if
                                      > >>it's
                                      > >>the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others
                                      > >>are
                                      > >>seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday
                                      >and
                                      > >>just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
                                      > >>
                                      > >>Warmest Regards,
                                      > >>
                                      > >>Olga for now
                                      > >>Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
                                      > >>
                                      > >>A stranger said it best,
                                      > >>"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about
                                      >X?"
                                      > >>it
                                      > >>is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y
                                      > >>towards
                                      > >>X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about
                                      >X,
                                      > >>but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I
                                      >think
                                      > >>about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
                                      > >>http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
                                      > >>
                                      > >>----- Original Message -----
                                      > >>From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                                      > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > >>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
                                      > >>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Greetings, fellow archers...
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                                      > >> > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                                      > >> > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                                      > >> > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                                      > >> > handed bow.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                                      > >> > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                                      > >> > considered wearing an eye patch...
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                                      > >> > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                                      > >> > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                                      > >> > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose
                                      >to
                                      > >> > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                                      > >> > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                                      > >> > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                                      > >> > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                                      > >> > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                                      > >> > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                                      > >> > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > -Evyenios
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                      > >> > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                      > >> > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>---8<---------------------------------------------
                                      > >>Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                      > >>Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                      > >>
                                      > >>[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                      > >>
                                      > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                      > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                      > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                      > >
                                      > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
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                                      > >
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                                      >
                                      >
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                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                    • Cyan of Storvik
                                      I might add that shelves also have the advantage of being more consistant then your knuckle for the elevation of your arrow release. On a shelfless bow,
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 11, 2005
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                                        I might add that shelves also have the advantage of being more
                                        consistant then your knuckle for the elevation of your arrow release.
                                        On a shelfless bow, holding the grip even 1/8" high or low
                                        translates into a 4 deg. discprepency on the arrow release angle
                                        relative to the nock on a 28" draw.
                                        It's also the one dimension of angle on the arrow that is not easy
                                        to differentiate as the archer is looking down the length of the
                                        arrow shaft (You can gauge left/right up/down from your view point).
                                        E.g. if you shoot an arrow and hit the target, then the next time
                                        you pick-up the bow and grip the bow 1/8" higher, it would be the
                                        same as if you had dropped the nock 1/8" or moved your anchor point
                                        1/8" lower on your face or elevated your bow 1/8" over where you
                                        were aiming before.
                                        Just something to think about.
                                        -Cyan of Storvik
                                      • Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                        Several points here. First, the cutout in a recurve or modern long bow is to make the arrow lie closer to the center of the bow ( referred to as center shot)
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 11, 2005
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                                          Several points here. First, the cutout in a recurve or modern long bow is
                                          to make the arrow lie closer to the center of the bow ( referred to as
                                          center shot) and is not , technically a shelf which is a rest for the
                                          arrow. The fact that the cutout functions as a shelf is
                                          incidental. Period sources refer to built up shelves of horn or cork and
                                          so would be allowable on a period longbow, it is the cutout which moves
                                          them to open division.

                                          As to the original question, if an archer wants a center shot bow (recurve
                                          or modern longbow) , it is possible to get them either left or right handed.

                                          Carolus
                                          (who incidentally makes policy for Caid, but seldom speaks in this role on
                                          the lists and is not doing so now)

                                          At 09:26 AM 1/11/2005, you wrote:


                                          >Greetings once again Olga:
                                          > The length of the long bow is misleading. After all, you are going to hold
                                          >it in the middle of the bow, so that means you will have half of the length
                                          >above your shoulders.So, if it's shorter than 8 feet you shouldn't have any
                                          >problem. And yes they make a long bow that has a shelf on both sides of the
                                          >grip. Baron bows had some for sale. I don't know if they still have them in
                                          >stock or not. I find that they have resonable prices also.
                                          > If the long bow has a shelf, it is not considered a traditional bow, and
                                          >must be shot in the open class. The shelf is to allow you have a place to
                                          >hold your arrow steady on the bow. It also allows you to put some kind of
                                          >padding on the shelf so there is less damage to your fletching. It gives you
                                          >a better line of sight down the arrow, toward the center of the bow.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Once again I wish you the best of luck, And keep
                                          >shooting
                                          >
                                          > Baron Talmon
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > DER BARON
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                                          > >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                                          > >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:40:13 -0800
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >Greetings Baron Talmon! and Hi!(deep curtsie)(I'm a sap for protocol)
                                          > >I'm a little over 5 ft... I don't know yet if that means I'll need a very
                                          > >short long bow or if a long bow's not realistic option but I'll look into
                                          > >that in the coming season..and thank you for the heads-up! Luckily, I
                                          > >started off as a left handed writer before being switched right. My logic
                                          > >here is that muscles have memory + I can see better with my left too...so
                                          > >looking into left-handed shooting shouldn't be any harder than picking up a
                                          > >bow for the first time to shoot right, right? Looking at the recurve I have
                                          > >now, there is a good portion of wood cut out (cave) where one nocks the
                                          > >arrows. I assume this is for visibility. Holding it with the right and
                                          > >drawing with the left however "switches" this visibility somewhat. I'm
                                          > >hoping to find a bow where the "gouge/caving" and the arrow rest have been
                                          > >placed mirror of normal for left shooters-ie on the right side of the bow
                                          > >instead of the left.--do you know what I mean? Have you seen these?
                                          > >
                                          > >Warmest Regards,
                                          > >Olga
                                          > >
                                          > > > Hi Olga!
                                          > > > I'm Baron Talmon, From Gatesedge in Stargate In Ansteorra. I to was
                                          > > > basicly right handed for something like 65 years. Then I was in a car
                                          > > > wreak,
                                          > > > that took the lens out of my right eye. Also the pupil. So here I am an
                                          > > > old
                                          > > > grey headed codger, Who refuses to quitely go away. I was shooting a
                                          > >right
                                          > > > handed recurve at the time [1992], After trying to shoot right handed
                                          > >with
                                          > > > my left eye.I finally decided I would have to switch over.
                                          > > > Now this is not an easy thing to do. What with the surgeries going on,
                                          > > > But
                                          > > > I tried to keep active in our group. The standard targets are easy
                                          > >enough,
                                          > > > but the speed rounds are something else. It's hard to nock the arrows
                                          > >when
                                          > > > you have no perspective. You miss the string more often than not.
                                          > > > As for trying a left handed bow, why not just borrow a long bow. All
                                          > >that
                                          > > > is reqired is to use protection on your bow hand.That's to keep the
                                          > > > fletching from eating up your knuckels.You might want to use a eye
                                          > >patch,
                                          > > > to
                                          > > > help keep your sight picture clear. I find that for me it's a lot better
                                          > > > if
                                          > > > I have something other than round targets to shoot at.I seem to have
                                          > > > aquired
                                          > > > the reputation of, If it's weird,I can hit it. 3-d targets are not only
                                          > > > fun,
                                          > > > but make you look some where besides the little yellow circle.This will
                                          > > > help
                                          > > > take your mind off of the fact that you are shooting wrong handed.
                                          > > > I may not be the best target shooter in our group, but I am the best
                                          > > > heckler, and due to the grey hair I get away with it.I tend to sit
                                          > >behind
                                          > > > the line and try to teach the new and younger shooters the little things
                                          > > > that will maybe let them enjoy the sport better.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > At any rate this will let you know that there are lots of us, who
                                          > >didn't
                                          > > > want to change but we did. for one reason or another...You'll probably
                                          > > > find
                                          > > > your scores will go up some too.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Lots of luck and keep shooting
                                          > > > Baron Talmon
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > DER BARON
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >>From: "Olga for now" <monkeygirl@...>
                                          > > >>Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > >>Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                                          > > >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:26:28 -0800
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>Evyenios,
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>I'm also left-eye dominant due to incurable fuzzy blindness in the right
                                          > > >>eye, and I've pondered these questions myself. I haven't played archery
                                          > > >>for
                                          > > >>years and would like to progress past the novice stage. By trial and
                                          > >error
                                          > > >>you can get quite good (open to interpretation) with the right even if
                                          > > >>it's
                                          > > >>the wrong eye dominant, but it makes you wonder doesn't it, what others
                                          > > >>are
                                          > > >>seeing who don't have this issue. I'll get the left handed bow someday
                                          > >and
                                          > > >>just go with it, it's only natural to be able to see your sights.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>Warmest Regards,
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>Olga for now
                                          > > >>Barony Blatha an Oir, An Tir
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>A stranger said it best,
                                          > > >>"If you were to ask me a simple question, e.g. "how do you feel about
                                          > >X?"
                                          > > >>it
                                          > > >>is only by a great force of will that I could answer you, "I feel Y
                                          > > >>towards
                                          > > >>X." If given half a chance, I will tell you, not just how I feel about
                                          > >X,
                                          > > >>but why I feel that way, and how I came to feel that way, and what I
                                          > >think
                                          > > >>about feeling that way towards X." --amaguena
                                          > > >>http://www.sdandi.net/essays/R-accent
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>----- Original Message -----
                                          > > >>From: "Evyenios Athanasiou" <ebrads@...>
                                          > > >>To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > >>Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 8:51 PM
                                          > > >>Subject: [SCA-Archery] Eye dominance and archery?
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Greetings, fellow archers...
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the Kingdom of
                                          > > >> > Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa). After
                                          > > >> > about 6 months of steady practice, I learned that I am left-eye
                                          > > >> > dominant, even though I've been practicing archery with a right-
                                          > > >> > handed bow.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just thought
                                          > > >> > everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was! I had even
                                          > > >> > considered wearing an eye patch...
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to release the
                                          > > >> > bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple folks' left-handed bows,
                                          > > >> > and my "sight picture," (if you want to borrow a term from
                                          > > >> > marksmanship), looked a lot clearer.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > So here are some questions I have for those on this list who choose
                                          > >to
                                          > > >> > respond, either here or to my own e-mail at ebrads@h...
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to shoot a right-
                                          > > >> > handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant? Do any of you do this?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been seriously
                                          > > >> > practicing archery for the past 4 months, I don't have an enormous
                                          > > >> > time spent on the line that I would be sacrificing. My scores stand a
                                          > > >> > chance of improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out your
                                          > > >> > correct eye dominance? How long did it take your shooting form to
                                          > > >> > recover, and your scores to return to their previous levels?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > -Evyenios
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                          > > >> > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                          > > >> > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>---8<---------------------------------------------
                                          > > >>Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                          > > >>Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                          > > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                          > > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >---8<---------------------------------------------
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                                          > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                          > >
                                          > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                          > >
                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >---8<---------------------------------------------
                                          >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                          >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                          >
                                          >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                          >
                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
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                                          >
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                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
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                                        • Amber morgan
                                          I know this wasn t my thread, but Thank you all for your time and commentary to the additional questions raised. I am a beginner and new to the society. Your
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 12, 2005
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                                            I know this wasn't my thread, but Thank you all for your time and commentary
                                            to the additional questions raised. I am a beginner and new to the society.
                                            Your help has been an invaluable intro.

                                            Respectfully,
                                            Amber



                                            -------------------------------------------------------
                                            -arrow shelves
                                            Period sources refer to built up shelves of horn or cork and so would be
                                            allowable on a period longbow, it is the cutout which moves them to open
                                            division.

                                            ----------------------------------------------
                                            -short people/long bows
                                            So, if it's shorter than 8 feet you shouldn't have any
                                            problem.

                                            -----------------------------------------------------
                                            - :)
                                            Baron bows had some for sale.
                                          • ld.blackmoon
                                            GREETINGS ... YES , IT IS POSSIBLE , I DO IT ....... IF YOU CHOOSE TO LEARN TO FOCUS SHOOT . BUT , I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING FOR OVER 30 YEARS, I M A FOCUS
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 22, 2005
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                                              GREETINGS

                                              >1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to
                                              > shoot a right- handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant?
                                              YES , IT IS POSSIBLE , I DO IT .......
                                              IF YOU CHOOSE TO LEARN TO FOCUS SHOOT .
                                              BUT , I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING FOR OVER 30 YEARS, I'M A " FOCUS
                                              " SHOOTER BY NATURE AND INCLINATION .
                                              HAVING JUST LEARNED TO " AIM " WHEN I TOOK OVER THE
                                              POSITION OF BARONIAL ARCHERY MARSHAL .
                                              SO THAT I COULD TEACH THAT THAT STYLE OF SHOOTING AS WELL .
                                              I ALSO SHOOT EITHER HANDED .
                                              >2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been
                                              > seriously practicing archery for the past 4 months, I
                                              > don't have an enormous time spent on the line that I
                                              > would be sacrificing. My scores stand a chance of
                                              > improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                                              >
                                              AS LONG AS YOU " AIM " YES IT COULD BE " WORTH IT " BESIDES
                                              , IT NEVER HURTS TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT EITHER HANDED .

                                              BE SAFE, BE HAPPY, HAVE FUN
                                              ARTHUR BLACKMOON
                                              > Greetings, fellow archers...
                                              >
                                              > My name is Evyenios, and I am a novice archery in the
                                              > Kingdom of Calontir, in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des
                                              > Moines, Iowa). After about 6 months of steady practice, I
                                              > learned that I am left-eye dominant, even though I've
                                              > been practicing archery with a right- handed bow.
                                              >
                                              > I guess I should have realized that before now...I just
                                              > thought everyone was shooting at two targets, like I was!
                                              > I had even considered wearing an eye patch...
                                              >
                                              > So now I am considering switching hands, and learning to
                                              > release the bow with my left hand. I borrowed a couple
                                              > folks' left-handed bows, and my "sight picture," (if you
                                              > want to borrow a term from marksmanship), looked a lot
                                              > clearer.
                                              >
                                              > So here are some questions I have for those on this list
                                              > who choose to respond, either here or to my own e-mail at
                                              > ebrads@h...
                                              >
                                              > 1. If I do not want to switch hands, is it possible to
                                              > shoot a right- handed bow, if you are left-eye dominant?
                                              > Do any of you do this?
                                              >
                                              > 2. Is it worth it to switch hands? Since I've only been
                                              > seriously practicing archery for the past 4 months, I
                                              > don't have an enormous time spent on the line that I
                                              > would be sacrificing. My scores stand a chance of
                                              > improving a great deal, but I'm still taking a risk.
                                              >
                                              > 3. Have any of you ever switched hands when you found out
                                              > your correct eye dominance? How long did it take your
                                              > shooting form to recover, and your scores to return to
                                              > their previous levels?
                                              >
                                              > -Evyenios
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval
                                              > Mart Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's
                                              > http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                              >
                                              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave
                                              > this list]
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              >
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