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Re: [SCA-Archery] Back Quiver revisited

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  • J. Hughes
    Actually the safest assumption is that the artist had no idea of what the Romans actually had by way of equipment (unless he had a Roman image in front of
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 7, 2004
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      Actually the safest assumption is that the artist had
      no idea of what the Romans actually had by way of
      equipment (unless he had a Roman image in front of
      him). The artist would therefore use contemporary
      equipment as his model. This is standard practice
      through most of the Middle Ages. If you want to know
      what the armor of a period was look at the soldiers at
      the foot of the cross. They will either be wearing
      clearly fantasy armor or the latest fashion.

      I love the pictures that show an old testament siege
      of Jerusalem with the attackers using crossbows. It is
      not that the artists knew there was a form of crossbow
      in ancient times and there is even clear evidence that
      there were hunting crossbows in Palestine during the
      Roman period. What the artists show is rather the
      crossbow of the Middle Ages rather than any of the
      ancient crossbows.

      But any picture from period will, at best, only give
      you assumptions. The more evidence assembled the
      greater the probability that the assumption is
      correct.

      Charles O'Connor
      --- blkknighti@... wrote:

      >
      > Thank you Nest. It seems, if I have found the
      > correct Psalm 10 of David, that
      > the passage it may illustrate is actually Psalm 11:2
      > ... "For look, the
      > wicked bend their bows; they set their arrows
      > against the strings to shoot from the
      > shadows at the upright in heart." Nothing in the
      > previous Psalm refers
      > directly to bows or arrows or such but is of the
      > same tone simply continued in 10.
      > Now while the document itself was produced in period
      > it is highly unlikely
      > that it can be considered evidentiary of back
      > quivers being use in period in
      > that geographical location. The illustration it
      > seems depicts a biblical passage
      > and I would suspect the artist to his license to
      > capture the passage in
      > biblical period form, including the dress,
      > especially the bow, arrows and of course
      > the quiver in "mixed metaphor" if you will. Much
      > like a previous discussion of
      > the Queens portrait depicting her as Diana.
      > I think we can hardly consider this a period
      > reference for the back quiver.
      > Thanks again for posting those pictures. After
      > reading Psalms envolved I'd
      > actually like to see the whole of the first from the
      > original Utrecht Psalter.
      > Another time maybe.
      >
      > Richard
      >
      > In a message dated 12/6/04 10:38:20 PM,
      > eastarch@... writes:
      >
      >
      > > Richard,
      > >
      > > These came from a book. The Utrecht Pslater in
      > Medieval art: Picturing the
      > > Psalms of David.� The 2 pictures are
      > representations of the 10th Psalm.
      > > Beyond that I am not sure of what the illustration
      > depicts. I am not up on
      > > my Psalms. The first picture is from the Utrecht
      > psalter, the second
      > > picture is from the Paris psalter. It is probably
      > drawn after the artist
      > > saw the Utrecht. The date of the Paris Psalter is
      > estimated at 1180-1200.
      > > Therefore it is considered to be a copy of the
      > first. The book goes on the
      > > list the Harley Psalter and the Eadwine Psalter as
      > other English copies of
      > > the original Utrecht Psalter.
      > >
      > > Nest



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    • Carolus von Eulenhorst
      On the other hand, many art works from period use local contemporary dress and fashion to depict biblical themes and so are excellent sources of documentation.
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 8, 2004
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        On the other hand, many art works from period use local contemporary dress
        and fashion to depict biblical themes and so are excellent sources of
        documentation. It was difficult for many period artists to
        conceptualize historical dress as they didn't have the type of knowledge
        base current artists have. It will take much more research, however

        Carolus

        .At 10:43 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote:

        >Thank you Nest. It seems, if I have found the correct Psalm 10 of David, that
        >the passage it may illustrate is actually Psalm 11:2 ... "For look, the
        >wicked bend their bows; they set their arrows against the strings to shoot
        >from the
        >shadows at the upright in heart." Nothing in the previous Psalm refers
        >directly to bows or arrows or such but is of the same tone simply
        >continued in 10.
        >Now while the document itself was produced in period it is highly unlikely
        >that it can be considered evidentiary of back quivers being use in period in
        >that geographical location. The illustration it seems depicts a biblical
        >passage
        >and I would suspect the artist to his license to capture the passage in
        >biblical period form, including the dress, especially the bow, arrows and
        >of course
        >the quiver in "mixed metaphor" if you will. Much like a previous
        >discussion of
        >the Queens portrait depicting her as Diana.
        >I think we can hardly consider this a period reference for the back quiver.
        >Thanks again for posting those pictures. After reading Psalms envolved I'd
        >actually like to see the whole of the first from the original Utrecht
        >Psalter.
        >Another time maybe.
        >
        >Richard
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