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Re: [SCA-Archery] Seeking advice

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  • Bruce R. Gordon
    Greetings A #26 handbow can regularly reach 100 yard targets and be accurate - see it all the time at Pennsic - so 40 yds. ought not to be any problem. But
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
      Greetings
      A #26 handbow can regularly reach 100 yard targets and be
      accurate - see it all the time at Pennsic - so 40 yds. ought not to be
      any problem. But before I go any further; resist the temptation to go
      up in poundage until you practice what folks will tell you here -
      higher poundage can be an advatage, but it brings liabilities along as
      well, not the least of which is potential damage to you by stressing
      muscles out of whack.
      Now then. Your description provides a dead-giveaway of one big
      factor in your problem - release technique. If you are getting wildly
      variable speeds, then you are using differing release forms with each
      shot. So of course your results will vary considerably.
      There are two elements to release; the draw, and the release
      itself.
      There are three different draws, the wrong one, the ok one, and
      the right one. The wrong one is to hold the handbow out there, nock an
      arrow, and then pull back the string. This makes your arms do all the
      work. Bad archer, no donut. The ok way is to hold the handbow close to
      you, nock an arrow, then pull back the string while at the same time
      pushing forward on the bow. This makes your shoulders do much of the
      work, and relieves your arm. Good archer, have a donut. The right way
      involves the same sort of thing as previous (push-pull), but your hands
      describe a little circular motion while doing it. This is difficult to
      describe in writing: do this, stand in place without anything in hand,
      assume form, and then make two smallish (big dinnerplate or hubcap
      sized) circles with each hand (opposing each other - i. e. release hand
      goes counterclockwise, bowhand goes clockwise). This takes a bit of
      fiddling, it's subtle and won't come immediately, but you'll know it
      when you do it right. Why? Because it causes your whole back to rise up
      and support your shoulders; you'll feel it, distinctly. Now try it with
      a bow. You'll find the circles only go through 180 degrees or so before
      everything locks into place. Very good archer, shoot 'em up target.
      I won't spend much bandwidth on release, you probably know the
      drill. Find a stable anchor point, make sure you neither pluck at the
      string nor follow or "push" the string. Also, make sure your bowarm is
      steady. If you jerk your arm slightly at release, it will throw the
      shot off.
      Last thing is sight picture. Either you have limb marks, or you
      are using tip-of-arrow as a point of aim, right? If neither, if you are
      just winging it, then you will never have consistently aimed shots.
      About the only thing I can say here is to try firing a set downrange at
      a particular aim point - take the target away and just stick little
      scraps of paper on the bale, and don't even look at where they land.
      Six arrows, all using the same aim point. Now go down there and see
      where they hit - that's your group. If it's all over the bale, then you
      need to work on form until you can tighten up the group. If you have a
      tightish group, then walk back and shoot six more, again, at a
      particular (adjusted) aim point. Keep doing this until you can move the
      group around at will. Now try it on a FITA target, picking what you
      think should be a good aim-point for gold. Where did they land? Go back
      and adjust. Continue refining aim-point until you are satisfied.

      Cordially;
      Nigel FitzMaurice

      > Alrighty guys... I need advice again... my instructor is trying to
      tell me that my 26 lb pull on my 30-35lb longbow should have no
      problems hitting 30 and 40 yard targets. I have been fussing because I
      wanted a heavier bow and am frustrated trying to figure out the "arc"
      thing in order to hit the target accurately.
      >
      > My form and anchor points are just fine, so my difficulty is figuring
      out how far above the target to aim... even with a good anchor
      point/release I get random arrow speeds!! ANY HINTS?
      >
      > Also, I don't believe that I would have no advantage with a higher
      poundage bow. Isn't an arrow that flies straight more
      accurate/consistent than one that has to arc to hit a target? It's
      like a crossbow would have no advantage! Hmmmmm....
      >
      > Thanks as always for all the great advice!
      > Alestra
      >
      > longbow <scalongbow@...> wrote:
      > The number of "Woods Walk" type shoots in AEthelmarc has led to a
      drop
      > in the
      > number of people participating in the Royal round shoots. One event
      that
      > has 5 such
      > walks is Will's Revenge that is held in Central PA in early May. It's
      > the first such
      > during the year. Very well attended. And very challenging. Lots of
      > "moving" targets as well.
      >
      > Master Gwilym
      >
      >
      >
      > > From: "J. Hughes"
      > >Subject: Re: SCA Archery Coaching
      > >
      > >Actually, a "woods walk" is a standard thing for many
      > >archery championships. Both the champion shoot for the
      > >war point and the champion shoot for the Youth archery
      > >at Pennsic had wood walks that presented targets in
      > >the settings of hunting. I have also seen a number of
      > >times creative use of moving targets on such shoots.
      > >
      > >Charles O'Connor
      > >--- Sharon Macielinski
      > > wrote:
      > > I have not
      > >
      > >
      > >>heard any kind of mock hunting trial... Depends on
      > >>the kingdom/area? Enlightenments?
      > >>
      > >>Best wishes,
      > >>Alestra (K of Atlantia)
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >__________________________________
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      --
      Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
      "Do these colors match?"
      "Is this too much jewelry?"
      "Is that my drink?"

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    • Carolus Eulenhorst
      Best description I have read on draw technique, Nigel. May I snag it for a summary page I am developing for Caid s web site? Carolus On Wed, 1 Sep 2004
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
        Best description I have read on draw technique, Nigel. May I snag it for
        a summary page I am developing for Caid's web site?
        Carolus

        On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:03:01 -0400 "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...>
        writes:
        > Greetings
        > A #26 handbow can regularly reach 100 yard targets and be
        > accurate - see it all the time at Pennsic - so 40 yds. ought not to
        > be
        > any problem. But before I go any further; resist the temptation to
        > go
        > up in poundage until you practice what folks will tell you here -
        > higher poundage can be an advatage, but it brings liabilities along
        > as
        > well, not the least of which is potential damage to you by stressing
        >
        > muscles out of whack.
        > Now then. Your description provides a dead-giveaway of one big
        >
        > factor in your problem - release technique. If you are getting
        > wildly
        > variable speeds, then you are using differing release forms with
        > each
        > shot. So of course your results will vary considerably.
        > There are two elements to release; the draw, and the release
        > itself.
        > There are three different draws, the wrong one, the ok one, and
        >
        > the right one. The wrong one is to hold the handbow out there, nock
        > an
        > arrow, and then pull back the string. This makes your arms do all
        > the
        > work. Bad archer, no donut. The ok way is to hold the handbow close
        > to
        > you, nock an arrow, then pull back the string while at the same time
        >
        > pushing forward on the bow. This makes your shoulders do much of the
        >
        > work, and relieves your arm. Good archer, have a donut. The right
        > way
        > involves the same sort of thing as previous (push-pull), but your
        > hands
        > describe a little circular motion while doing it. This is difficult
        > to
        > describe in writing: do this, stand in place without anything in
        > hand,
        > assume form, and then make two smallish (big dinnerplate or hubcap
        > sized) circles with each hand (opposing each other - i. e. release
        > hand
        > goes counterclockwise, bowhand goes clockwise). This takes a bit of
        >
        > fiddling, it's subtle and won't come immediately, but you'll know it
        >
        > n you do it right. Why? Because it causes your whole back to rise up
        >
        > and support your shoulders; you'll feel it, distinctly. Now try it
        > with
        > a bow. You'll find the circles only go through 180 degrees or so
        > before
        > everything locks into place. Very good archer, shoot 'em up target.
        > I won't spend much bandwidth on release, you probably know the
        >
        > drill. Find a stable anchor point, make sure you neither pluck at
        > the
        > string nor follow or "push" the string. Also, make sure your bowarm
        > is
        > steady. If you jerk your arm slightly at release, it will throw the
        >
        > shot off.
        > Last thing is sight picture. Either you have limb marks, or you
        >
        > are using tip-of-arrow as a point of aim, right? If neither, if you
        > are
        > just winging it, then you will never have consistently aimed shots.
        >
        > About the only thing I can say here is to try firing a set downrange
        > at
        > a particular aim point - take the target away and just stick little
        >
        > scraps of paper on the bale, and don't even look at where they land.
        >
        > Six arrows, all using the same aim point. Now go down there and see
        >
        > where they hit - that's your group. If it's all over the bale, then
        > you
        > need to work on form until you can tighten up the group. If you have
        > a
        > tightish group, then walk back and shoot six more, again, at a
        > particular (adjusted) aim point. Keep doing this until you can move
        > the
        > group around at will. Now try it on a FITA target, picking what you
        >
        > think should be a good aim-point for gold. Where did they land? Go
        > back
        > and adjust. Continue refining aim-point until you are satisfied.
        >
        > Cordially;
        > Nigel FitzMaurice
        >
        > > Alrighty guys... I need advice again... my instructor is trying to
        >
        > tell me that my 26 lb pull on my 30-35lb longbow should have no
        > problems hitting 30 and 40 yard targets. I have been fussing
        > because I
        > wanted a heavier bow and am frustrated trying to figure out the
        > "arc"
        > thing in order to hit the target accurately.
        > >
        > > My form and anchor points are just fine, so my difficulty is
        > figuring
        > out how far above the target to aim... even with a good anchor
        > point/release I get random arrow speeds!! ANY HINTS?
        > >
        > > Also, I don't believe that I would have no advantage with a higher
        >
        > poundage bow. Isn't an arrow that flies straight more
        > accurate/consistent than one that has to arc to hit a target? It's
        >
        > like a crossbow would have no advantage! Hmmmmm....
        > >
        > > Thanks as always for all the great advice!
        > > Alestra
        > >
        > > longbow <scalongbow@...> wrote:
        > > The number of "Woods Walk" type shoots in AEthelmarc has led to a
        >
        > drop
        > > in the
        > > number of people participating in the Royal round shoots. One
        > event
        > that
        > > has 5 such
        > > walks is Will's Revenge that is held in Central PA in early May.
        > It's
        > > the first such
        > > during the year. Very well attended. And very challenging. Lots of
        >
        > > "moving" targets as well.
        > >
        > > Master Gwilym
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > From: "J. Hughes"
        > > >Subject: Re: SCA Archery Coaching
        > > >
        > > >Actually, a "woods walk" is a standard thing for many
        > > >archery championships. Both the champion shoot for the
        > > >war point and the champion shoot for the Youth archery
        > > >at Pennsic had wood walks that presented targets in
        > > >the settings of hunting. I have also seen a number of
        > > >times creative use of moving targets on such shoots.
        > > >
        > > >Charles O'Connor
        > > >--- Sharon Macielinski
        > > > wrote:
        > > > I have not
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >>heard any kind of mock hunting trial... Depends on
        > > >>the kingdom/area? Enlightenments?
        > > >>
        > > >>Best wishes,
        > > >>Alestra (K of Atlantia)
        > > >>
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >__________________________________
        > > >Do you Yahoo!?
        > > >Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
        > > >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >_______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > >
        >
        >_______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >---8<---------------------------------------------
        > > >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > > >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        > > >
        > > >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
        > list]
        > > >
        > >
        > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
        > ---
        > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
        > ---
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        > >
        > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
        > list]
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        > >
        > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
        > list]
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
        > "Do these colors match?"
        > "Is this too much jewelry?"
        > "Is that my drink?"
        >
        > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        >
        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
        > list]
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

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      • Bruce R. Gordon
        Greetings Sure, help yourself. Just remember to include the revision I wrote a few minutes ago when I realized that my original description was from a
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
          Greetings
          Sure, help yourself. Just remember to include the revision I wrote
          a few minutes ago when I realized that my original description was from
          a left-hand point of view, and needed to be rephrased accordingly.

          Nigel

          > Best description I have read on draw technique, Nigel. May I snag it
          for
          > a summary page I am developing for Caid's web site?
          > Carolus
          >
          --
          Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
          "Do these colors match?"
          "Is this too much jewelry?"
          "Is that my drink?"

          http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
        • John edgerton
          May I also have permission to post it to the West Archery list? Jon
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
            May I also have permission to post it to the West Archery list?

            Jon

            On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 09:01 AM, Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

            > Greetings
            > Sure, help yourself. Just remember to include the revision I wrote
            > a few minutes ago when I realized that my original description was from
            > a left-hand point of view, and needed to be rephrased accordingly.
            >
            > Nigel
          • Bruce R. Gordon
            Greetings Sure, use whatever is useful. Nigel ... wrote ... from ... -- Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt: Do these colors match? Is this
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
              Greetings
              Sure, use whatever is useful.

              Nigel

              > May I also have permission to post it to the West Archery list?
              >
              > Jon
              >
              > On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 09:01 AM, Bruce R. Gordon wrote:
              >
              > > Greetings
              > > Sure, help yourself. Just remember to include the revision I
              wrote
              > > a few minutes ago when I realized that my original description was
              from
              > > a left-hand point of view, and needed to be rephrased accordingly.
              > >
              > > Nigel
              >
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
              "Do these colors match?"
              "Is this too much jewelry?"
              "Is that my drink?"

              http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
            • John edgerton
              Thank you. Jon
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
                Thank you.

                Jon

                On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

                > Greetings
                > Sure, use whatever is useful.
                >
                > Nigel
                >
                >> May I also have permission to post it to the West Archery list?
                >>
                >> Jon
              • Carolus Eulenhorst
                Indeed. Until you wrote that I didn t realize I was doing just that for 40 years. Carolus On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:01:28 -0400 Bruce R. Gordon
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 1, 2004
                  Indeed. Until you wrote that I didn't realize I was doing just that for
                  40 years.
                  Carolus

                  On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:01:28 -0400 "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...>
                  writes:
                  > Greetings
                  > Sure, help yourself. Just remember to include the revision I
                  > wrote
                  > a few minutes ago when I realized that my original description was
                  > from
                  > a left-hand point of view, and needed to be rephrased accordingly.
                  >
                  > Nigel
                  >
                  > > Best description I have read on draw technique, Nigel. May I snag
                  > it
                  > for
                  > > a summary page I am developing for Caid's web site?
                  > > Carolus
                  > >
                  > --
                  > Three things never heard from the mouth of a Celt:
                  > "Do these colors match?"
                  > "Is this too much jewelry?"
                  > "Is that my drink?"
                  >
                  > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
                  > list]
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

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