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Re: [SCA-Archery] Fletching - documentation ...

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  • J. Hughes
    I do not want to steel Nigel s thunder, but my memory is that the Cleavland bolts looked like the same sort of parchment that my wife uses for calligraphy, not
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 28, 2004
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      I do not want to steel Nigel's thunder, but my memory
      is that the Cleavland bolts looked like the same sort
      of parchment that my wife uses for calligraphy, not
      floppy at all.

      Alm writes of three fletched bolts and cites the
      Kalevala (out of period published of period oral
      Finnish tradition) which had the bolts with hardened
      wood points and poisoned.

      The bolt clips are hard to document in Europe before
      the 16th century. They clearly appear in the Cranach
      painting that I have already mentioned. They also
      occur in the Mamluk archery manual.

      Charles O'Connor
      --- Siegfried Sebastian Faust <crossbow@...>
      wrote:
      > First of all Nigel, your description does wonders
      > ... and explains how one
      > could get the leather/rawhide/etc to stay onto the
      > bolt ... put it in a
      > groove :)
      >
      > Might I ask from memory, was it more floppy leather,
      > thick leather, or
      > rawhide ish looking?
      >
      > >Definitely no
      > >rail slots for a third fletch, anyway.
      >
      > Well, it has been long conjectured, that many period
      > crossbow bolts had a
      > 3rd upwards vertical fletch (Iolo usually carried
      > around a few like this
      > with his shop).
      >
      > As long as you don't have a bolt clip, it isn't a
      > problem. Or 'slit' the
      > bolt clip to accept the fletch.
      >
      > Again, not sure of my source on this, other than the
      > Book of the Crossbow
      > ... and I'll have to see if he is just conjecturing,
      > or if he is quoting a
      > source .... but I know I've read it elsewhere.
      >
      > And that most artist's just didn't bother to draw
      > that fletch, since given
      > the usual 'top view' of a crossbow as drawn, it
      > would just be a 'line'. on
      > the bolt.
      >
      > This goes along with the similar conjecture that all
      > the pictures of 2
      > fletch arrows, are actually 3 fletch, but just drawn
      > that way, since the
      > cock feather would just be a line as well.
      >
      > Siegfried
      >
      >
      >
      ___________________________________________________________________________
      > THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust
      > http://crossbows.biz/
      > Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web
      > Minister & Archery Marshal
      > Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl
      > Marshal for Target Archery
      > http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
      > http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/



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    • Bruce R. Gordon
      Greetings I agree - behind a glass case you can t tell, of course, but aside from appearing a bit thick, they give an impression of stiffness - crinkly
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 28, 2004
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        Greetings
        I agree - behind a glass case you can't tell, of course, but aside
        from appearing a bit thick, they give an impression of stiffness -
        crinkly parchment rather than droopy soft vellum (as if anyone would
        use vellum...). I'll go up there again on wednesday and refresh my
        memory, with notes. There's another painting I want to look at, too,
        one that shows a close up detail of the fletching on an arrow.

        Nigel

        > I do not want to steel Nigel's thunder, but my memory
        > is that the Cleavland bolts looked like the same sort
        > of parchment that my wife uses for calligraphy, not
        > floppy at all.
        >
        > Alm writes of three fletched bolts and cites the
        > Kalevala (out of period published of period oral
        > Finnish tradition) which had the bolts with hardened
        > wood points and poisoned.
        >
        > The bolt clips are hard to document in Europe before
        > the 16th century. They clearly appear in the Cranach
        > painting that I have already mentioned. They also
        > occur in the Mamluk archery manual.
        >
        > Charles O'Connor
        > --- Siegfried Sebastian Faust <crossbow@...>
        > wrote:
        > > First of all Nigel, your description does wonders
        > > ... and explains how one
        > > could get the leather/rawhide/etc to stay onto the
        > > bolt ... put it in a
        > > groove :)
        > >
        > > Might I ask from memory, was it more floppy leather,
        > > thick leather, or
        > > rawhide ish looking?
        > >
        > > >Definitely no
        > > >rail slots for a third fletch, anyway.
        > >
        > > Well, it has been long conjectured, that many period
        > > crossbow bolts had a
        > > 3rd upwards vertical fletch (Iolo usually carried
        > > around a few like this
        > > with his shop).
        > >
        > > As long as you don't have a bolt clip, it isn't a
        > > problem. Or 'slit' the
        > > bolt clip to accept the fletch.
        > >
        > > Again, not sure of my source on this, other than the
        > > Book of the Crossbow
        > > ... and I'll have to see if he is just conjecturing,
        > > or if he is quoting a
        > > source .... but I know I've read it elsewhere.
        > >
        > > And that most artist's just didn't bother to draw
        > > that fletch, since given
        > > the usual 'top view' of a crossbow as drawn, it
        > > would just be a 'line'. on
        > > the bolt.
        > >
        > > This goes along with the similar conjecture that all
        > > the pictures of 2
        > > fletch arrows, are actually 3 fletch, but just drawn
        > > that way, since the
        > > cock feather would just be a line as well.
        > >
        > > Siegfried
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        ________________________________________________________________________
        ___
        > > THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust
        > > http://crossbows.biz/
        > > Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web
        > > Minister & Archery Marshal
        > > Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl
        > > Marshal for Target Archery
        > > http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
        > > http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
        >
        >
        >
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      • Laebeth Curiel
        Will you make your findings and references available? I am interested in this also. Laebeth (Curiel - lady archer) ... From: Siegfried Sebastian Faust
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 28, 2004
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          Will you make your findings and references available? I am interested in
          this also.

          Laebeth
          (Curiel - lady archer)

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Siegfried Sebastian Faust [mailto:crossbow@...]
          Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:16 AM
          To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SCA-Archery] Fletching - documentation ...


          Hello all, I've got this background project in my mind that is bugging me
          to track down some documentation on Fletching styles ... fletching styles
          in all their particulars.

          I know I've got some of this at home, but figured others might have good
          access to things I don't, and/or have it fresher in their mind. Therefore:

          I want any documentation on different specific styles of fletching, it is
          general 'sca knowledge' that the following styles existed, I want
          documentation that they did:

          * Arrow - feather - 3 fletch
          * Arrow - feather - 4 fletch??
          * Arrow - feather - 2 fletch
          * Crossbow - feather - 2 fletch
          * Crossbow - feather - 3 fletch (vertical)
          * Crossbow - feather - 4 fletch (hedgehog)
          * Crossbow - grooves as fletching
          * Crossbow - Parchment/Paper - split bolt & insert
          * Crossbow - Leather - 2 fletch glued?
          * Crossbow - Wood - 2 fletch glued?
          * Crossbow - Metal - Split & insert?

          Similarly, I as somewhat indicated above as well, I am interested in HOW
          these were attached. Such as, were feathers in period, once glued (hide
          glue), always then wrapped with string? Or just sometimes? How about on
          crossbow bolts? What kind of string was used for that purpose? etc.

          Thanks in advance for anything you can give me ... direct references to
          paintings and/or books/page numbers are best :)

          Siegfried



          ___________________________________________________________________________
          THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
          Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
          Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
          http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/



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          Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

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        • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
          ... But of course ... as long as everyone actually goes and helps me find everything :) (IE, assuming it gets done ) Siegfried
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 29, 2004
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            At 10:33 PM 6/28/2004, you wrote:
            >Will you make your findings and references available? I am interested in
            >this also.

            But of course ... as long as everyone actually goes and helps me find
            everything :) (IE, assuming it 'gets done')

            Siegfried



            ___________________________________________________________________________
            THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
            Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
            Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
            http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
          • Nest verch Tangwistel
            I started looking into this at one point also. I have found any number of fletchings depicted on pictures of saint sebastian. A huge source of links to various
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 30, 2004
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              I started looking into this at one point also. I have found any number of
              fletchings depicted on pictures of saint sebastian. A huge source of links
              to various St. Sebastian pictures is:
              http://bode.diee.unica.it/~giua/SEBASTIAN/
              Good luck with your project.

              Nest

              --- Siegfried Sebastian Faust <crossbow@...> wrote:
              > Hello all, I've got this background project in my mind that is bugging
              > me
              > to track down some documentation on Fletching styles ... fletching
              > styles
              > in all their particulars.
              >
              > I know I've got some of this at home, but figured others might have good
              >
              > access to things I don't, and/or have it fresher in their mind.
              > Therefore:
              >
              > I want any documentation on different specific styles of fletching, it
              > is
              > general 'sca knowledge' that the following styles existed, I want
              > documentation that they did:
              >
              > * Arrow - feather - 3 fletch
              > * Arrow - feather - 4 fletch??
              > * Arrow - feather - 2 fletch
              > * Crossbow - feather - 2 fletch
              > * Crossbow - feather - 3 fletch (vertical)
              > * Crossbow - feather - 4 fletch (hedgehog)
              > * Crossbow - grooves as fletching
              > * Crossbow - Parchment/Paper - split bolt & insert
              > * Crossbow - Leather - 2 fletch glued?
              > * Crossbow - Wood - 2 fletch glued?
              > * Crossbow - Metal - Split & insert?
              >
              > Similarly, I as somewhat indicated above as well, I am interested in HOW
              >
              > these were attached. Such as, were feathers in period, once glued (hide
              >
              > glue), always then wrapped with string? Or just sometimes? How about
              > on
              > crossbow bolts? What kind of string was used for that purpose? etc.
              >
              > Thanks in advance for anything you can give me ... direct references to
              > paintings and/or books/page numbers are best :)
              >
              > Siegfried
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ___________________________________________________________________________
              > THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust
              > http://crossbows.biz/
              > Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery
              > Marshal
              > Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target
              > Archery
              > http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
              > http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
              >
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
              > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >




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            • John edgerton
              Also a good source for quivers, etc. Jon
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 30, 2004
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                Also a good source for quivers, etc.

                Jon
                On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 11:19 AM, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:

                > I started looking into this at one point also. I have found any number
                > of
                > fletchings depicted on pictures of saint sebastian. A huge source of
                > links
                > to various St. Sebastian pictures is:
                > http://bode.diee.unica.it/~giua/SEBASTIAN/
                > Good luck with your project.
                >
                > Nest
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