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Re: [SCA-Archery] aroow question

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  • Bruce R. Gordon
    Greetings The numbers you refer to indicate that the bow pulls 25 pounds at a 24 inch drawlength. In English, that means that when you pull back the string 2
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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      Greetings
      The numbers you refer to indicate that the bow pulls 25 pounds at
      a 24 inch drawlength. In English, that means that when you pull back
      the string 2 feet from thewhere your hand is gripping the stave, the
      bow will exert 25 lbs. of pressure on the arrow. Sort of. (Physics
      people, cut me some slack here, I'm simplifying, I know...)
      Usually, when someone says that a particular arrow isn't "right"
      for a particular bow, what they mean is that the arrows "spine" - it's
      relative stiffness or flexibility - is out of synch with that type of
      bow. An arrow that is too stiff and massive won't perform as well,
      overall, as one that is just right. An arrow that is significantly
      lighter and too flexible is a potential safety hazard - in extreme
      cases a massive bow could shatter a very light arrow.
      Your bow is fairly light poundage, so it may be that you are being
      told that your arrows are too heavy; I'd have to look at them, or get
      more info before deciding.
      But an arrow that's too heavy won't typically fly high and to the
      left - that sounds more like a release problem, or possibly a sighting
      problem. What I would suggest is to get someone to look very closely at
      you as you shoot - literally stand close to you and look carefully at
      small movements you might be making. If you can stand the distraction,
      a very powerful training tool is a videocam, which will allow you to
      look very carefully at things you do yourself. Look from the side, and
      also look from behind. If they are knowledgeable, they might spot
      irregular release habits. Things like plucking the string instead of
      smoothly getting your fingers out of the way, or following the string
      for an moment after release with your hand. Looking at your arm from
      behind might reveal a slight arm-jerk just at the moment of release, a
      very common tendency that can have a major effect on arrow flight if
      you don't realize it's happening.

      Nigel FitzMaurice

      > Hello,
      > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
      > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
      > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
      > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
      > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
      > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
      > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
      > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
      > Thank you very much,
      > Caelainn
      >
      >
      >
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    • carlDOTwest
      ... I suspect Nigel has hit it here. Where are you anchoring ? Just before you release the arrow, where is your string hand? That s your anchor point. Just
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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        Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

        > ...
        > But an arrow that's too heavy won't typically fly high and to the
        > left - that sounds more like a release problem,


        I suspect Nigel has hit it here.

        Where are you 'anchoring'?
        Just before you release the arrow, where is your string hand?
        That's your anchor point.
        Just after the arrow leaves your bow, where is your string hand?
        I'm betting that it's lower and to the right of your anchor point.


        -- Fritz


        If you try to 'reply' to me without fixing the dot, your reply
        will go into a 'special' mailbox reserved for spam. See below.


        --
        Carl West carlDOTwest@... http://carl.west.home.comcast.net

        >>>>>>>> change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me <<<<<<<<<<<<

        "Clutter"? This is an object-rich environment.
      • Nest verch Tangwistel
        I think Nigel has probably hit it. There may also be an issue about aiming too. I found when I was shooting a longbow, and I used the tip of the arrow to aim,
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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          I think Nigel has probably hit it. There may also be an issue about aiming
          too. I found when I was shooting a longbow, and I used the tip of the
          arrow to aim, I had to aim wuite a bit to the right to get it to hit the
          target. Since I hold the string (anchor) on the right side of my face, I
          am actually looking across it at an angle, not straight down the arrow.
          therefore I see the tip off to the right eventhough the arrow is pointing
          right at the target. I never ended up aiming arrows off that bow at the
          target. I still don't aim at the target with my recurve. My eye just is
          not directly above the arrow. I have noticed with new shooters that come
          to my practice when they are just starting out, they really want to aim at
          the target no matter where their arrows go. Good luck.

          Nest
          --- lady_caelainn <wintermoonmaiden@...> wrote:
          > Hello,
          > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
          > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
          > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
          > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
          > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
          > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
          > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
          > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
          > Thank you very much,
          > Caelainn
          >
          >
          >
          > ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
          > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
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        • Chad Wilson
          Caelainn wrote, I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit frustrating. Two things to try and correct this, barring changes to the arrows themselves:
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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            Caelainn wrote, "I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
            frustrating."

            Two things to try and correct this, barring changes to the arrows
            themselves:

            1. Do not tense up your arm that holds the bow. When you tense up
            those muscles, upon arrow release, your arm will move. You want to
            use just enough muscle to hold steady. Also, don't squeeze the bow
            with your hand, just wrap your fingers around with enough strength to
            hold it steady.

            2. Check your string nock, that thing on the string to keep the
            arrow nock in place can move. Or it can be too high or low. The
            arrow should come off the bow into its gentle arc. If you, or a
            spotter, notices that the tail end of the arrow is going up and down,
            move the nock up or down until it stops fluttering.

            3. Aim lower and more to the right.

            *grin*

            Whatever you do, only correct one thing at a time. It is hard to
            learn what you are doing wrong if you throw too many solutions at a
            problem at one time.

            -Caedmon
          • banzhof
            Caelainn, If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving advise: 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot? 2. Are you aiming using the tip of
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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              Caelainn,

              If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving advise:

              1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?

              2. Are you aiming using the tip of the arrow?

              3. Is your eye directly above the arrow; or is it off to one side?


              Longbows can be tricky beasts to shoot consistantly. Stiffness of the arrow
              will influence R/L; as will eye position in relation to the arrow. Up/down
              is related to height of eye above arrow and point of aim. Tilting the bow
              will primarily change R/L.

              Don'y give up, longbows are a lot of fun.

              Alan of Caerlaverock, Forrester of the Greenwood
            • lady_caelainn
              ... No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest when I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but left eye dominant
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "banzhof" <banzhof@d...> wrote:
                > Caelainn,
                >
                > If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving advise:
                >
                > 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?

                No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest when
                I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but
                left eye dominant (sp?). So I tilt the bow. I am not getting a new
                bow because this one was carved custom for me.

                >
                > 2. Are you aiming using the tip of the arrow?

                I try to yes.

                >
                > 3. Is your eye directly above the arrow; or is it off to one side?

                I think so. Not sure on that one. I am going out to shoot tomorrow, I
                could pay attention to that then.
                >
                >
                > Longbows can be tricky beasts to shoot consistantly. Stiffness of
                the arrow
                > will influence R/L; as will eye position in relation to the arrow.
                Up/down
                > is related to height of eye above arrow and point of aim. Tilting
                the bow
                > will primarily change R/L.
                >
                > Don'y give up, longbows are a lot of fun.
                >
                > Alan of Caerlaverock, Forrester of the Greenwood

                Thanks- Caelainn
              • lady_caelainn
                ... I try to do it right on my cheek, next to my mouth. ... I shall try to pay better attention to how I release the string. Consistancy is something I need to
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "carl.west" <carl.west@c...>
                  wrote:
                  > Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

                  > Where are you 'anchoring'?
                  > Just before you release the arrow, where is your string hand?

                  I try to do it right on my cheek, next to my mouth.

                  > That's your anchor point.
                  > Just after the arrow leaves your bow, where is your string hand?
                  > I'm betting that it's lower and to the right of your anchor point.
                  >
                  >
                  > -- Fritz


                  I shall try to pay better attention to how I release the string.
                  Consistancy is something I need to work on. But I still want new
                  arrows...
                • lady_caelainn
                  ... to ... Well, I don t squeeze the bow with my hand. My girlfriend did while she was shooting and ended up with a blood blister. ... down, ... I do think the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Chad Wilson" <chaderin@e...>
                    wrote:
                    > Caelainn wrote, "I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                    > frustrating."
                    >
                    > Two things to try and correct this, barring changes to the arrows
                    > themselves:
                    >
                    > 1. Do not tense up your arm that holds the bow. When you tense up
                    > those muscles, upon arrow release, your arm will move. You want to
                    > use just enough muscle to hold steady. Also, don't squeeze the bow
                    > with your hand, just wrap your fingers around with enough strength
                    to
                    > hold it steady.

                    Well, I don't squeeze the bow with my hand. My girlfriend did while
                    she was shooting and ended up with a blood blister.

                    >
                    > 2. Check your string nock, that thing on the string to keep the
                    > arrow nock in place can move. Or it can be too high or low. The
                    > arrow should come off the bow into its gentle arc. If you, or a
                    > spotter, notices that the tail end of the arrow is going up and
                    down,
                    > move the nock up or down until it stops fluttering.

                    I do think the string nock is too low. Last time I shot I tried an
                    experiment and nocked the arrow above the nock on the string instead
                    of below it. Then I was just shooting to the left, instead of high
                    and to the left.


                    >
                    > 3. Aim lower and more to the right.
                    >
                    > *grin*

                    Haaa Haaa Haa
                    *L*
                    >
                    > Whatever you do, only correct one thing at a time. It is hard to
                    > learn what you are doing wrong if you throw too many solutions at a
                    > problem at one time.
                    >
                    > -Caedmon

                    I agree with you. If I change too many thing at once, I won't know
                    what is correct. One at a time.
                    Thanks,
                    Caelainn
                  • Heather & Steve English
                    For the eye dominance problem try an eye patch over the left eye. Lord Sveinn ... From: lady_caelainn To:
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                      For the eye dominance problem try an eye patch over the left eye.

                      Lord Sveinn
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "lady_caelainn" <wintermoonmaiden@...>
                      To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 10:23 AM
                      Subject: [SCA-Archery] aroow question


                      > Hello,
                      > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
                      > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
                      > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
                      > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
                      > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                      > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
                      > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
                      > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
                      > Thank you very much,
                      > Caelainn
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >
                      > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Nest verch Tangwistel
                      ... when ... So you are shooting right handed, but are left eye dominant? Do you have both eyes open? Your dominant eye is probably doing the aiming. It would
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                        > >
                        > > 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?
                        >
                        > No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest
                        when
                        > I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but
                        > left eye dominant (sp?). So I tilt the bow. I am not getting a new
                        > bow because this one was carved custom for me.
                        >
                        So you are shooting right handed, but are left eye dominant? Do you
                        have both eyes open? Your dominant eye is probably doing the aiming.
                        It would be much further away from the arrow itself, forcing you to
                        aim even further over to the right to compensate. Try closing your
                        left eye when you shoot a couple of times and see what happens. If
                        you are really attached to the bow, and it sounds like you are, you
                        might try wearing an eye patch over the left eye to force the right
                        eye to take over.


                        Nest
                      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                        Greetings from James Cunningham to Caelainn You said you were new to SCA archery, How much mundain archery experience do you have? If you are shooting left
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                          Greetings from James Cunningham to Caelainn

                          You said you were new to SCA archery, How much mundain archery experience
                          do you have?
                          If you are shooting left and high every time that is a very good thing
                          because all you have to do is move your aim point low and right by an equal
                          amount. But first I need to know how many days a week you practice and how
                          many hundred arrows you you shoot during each practice? I need to know
                          where you are at in archery skill to make a judgement on your equipment.

                          James Cunningham

                          > Hello,
                          > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
                          > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
                          > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
                          > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
                          > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                          > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
                          > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
                          > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
                          > Thank you very much,
                          > Caelainn
                          >
                          >
                        • Carolus Eulenhorst
                          Assuming you are a right handed archer, this sounds very much like you are exploding on your release. That is that your bow hand is jerking slightly upwards
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                            Assuming you are a right handed archer, this sounds very much like you
                            are "exploding" on your release. That is that your bow hand is jerking
                            slightly upwards and to the left on release. This is quite common in new
                            archers. The advise to have someone watch you shoot is the best here.
                            You don't say where you are, we may be able to get you in touch with
                            someone if we know what kingdom you are in.

                            In service to the dream
                            Carolus von Eulenhorst
                            eulenhorst@...
                            Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                            Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)

                            On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:23:23 -0000 "lady_caelainn"
                            <wintermoonmaiden@...> writes:
                            > Hello,
                            > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
                            > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
                            > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches
                            > long.
                            > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for
                            > the
                            > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                            >
                            > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't
                            > know
                            > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
                            > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
                            > Thank you very much,
                            > Caelainn

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                          • Carolus Eulenhorst
                            Here is a major problem. I find it best to retrain archers to shoot drawing with the same hand as their dominant eye. I am in the same boat and changing to
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
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                              Here is a major problem. I find it best to retrain archers to shoot
                              drawing with the same hand as their dominant eye. I am in the same boat
                              and changing to shoot left handed was the best thing I have ever done.
                              This explains exactly the situation you are describing. your point of
                              aim is based on the angle from your left eye across the point of the
                              arrow to the point of aim. Drawing with the right hand will cause
                              considerable deflection to the left.
                              Carolus


                              On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:26:32 -0000 "lady_caelainn"
                              <wintermoonmaiden@...> writes:
                              > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "banzhof" <banzhof@d...> wrote:
                              > > Caelainn,
                              > >
                              > > If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving
                              > advise:
                              > >
                              > > 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?
                              >
                              > No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest when
                              >
                              > I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but
                              > left eye dominant (sp?). So I tilt the bow. I am not getting a new
                              > bow because this one was carved custom for me.
                              >
                              > >
                              > > 2. Are you aiming using the tip of the arrow?
                              >
                              > I try to yes.
                              >
                              > >
                              > > 3. Is your eye directly above the arrow; or is it off to one
                              > side?
                              >
                              > I think so. Not sure on that one. I am going out to shoot tomorrow,
                              > I
                              > could pay attention to that then.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Longbows can be tricky beasts to shoot consistantly. Stiffness of
                              >
                              > the arrow
                              > > will influence R/L; as will eye position in relation to the arrow.
                              >
                              > Up/down
                              > > is related to height of eye above arrow and point of aim. Tilting
                              >
                              > the bow
                              > > will primarily change R/L.
                              > >
                              > > Don'y give up, longbows are a lot of fun.
                              > >
                              > > Alan of Caerlaverock, Forrester of the Greenwood
                              >
                              > Thanks- Caelainn

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                            • Chad Wilson
                              My wife had a left-eye dominant eye problem. She is a right-handed shooter and getting a new bow was not in the budget at the time. It was suggested to her
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 29, 2004
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                                My wife had a left-eye dominant eye problem. She is a right-handed
                                shooter and getting a new bow was not in the budget at the time. It
                                was suggested to her to wear an eye patch over her left eye while
                                shooting.

                                So, she made up a nifty eye patch using baronial colors and heck if
                                it didn't work like a charm.

                                -Caedmon
                              • Kinjal of Moravia
                                ... handed ... It ... if ... ..................................................... Neat!! course if one learns to shoot with their eyes shut .... remembering
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 30, 2004
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                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Chad Wilson" <chaderin@e...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > My wife had a left-eye dominant eye problem. She is a right-
                                  handed
                                  > shooter and getting a new bow was not in the budget at the time.
                                  It
                                  > was suggested to her to wear an eye patch over her left eye while
                                  > shooting.
                                  >
                                  > So, she made up a nifty eye patch using baronial colors and heck
                                  if
                                  > it didn't work like a charm.
                                  >
                                  > -Caedmon

                                  .....................................................

                                  Neat!! course if one learns to shoot with their eyes shut ....

                                  remembering his grandfather,
                                  kinjal
                                • kilmye@aol.com
                                  A friend came over last night, and helped me string my bow, and take some practice pulls. He helped me a bit with my form. He s not our Marshall but he grew up
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 30, 2004
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                                    A friend came over last night, and helped me string my bow, and take some
                                    practice pulls. He helped me a bit with my form. He's not our Marshall but he
                                    grew up hunting with a traditional bow, and seems to know what he's talking
                                    about.

                                    I found myself automatically closing my right eye, and wanting to "aim" with
                                    my left eye. I'm right handed, sort of. The bow is right handed. I don't even
                                    have any arrows yet, but I'm thinking this might cause some trouble when I do
                                    start trying to hit targets.

                                    Should I maybe try to keep both eyes open, or switch to a left handed bow?
                                    Maybe I should have a right and left handed bow and take turns. :)

                                    Kiley


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                    I ll bet your friend said get a left handed bow! Make sure you are left eye dominate! You should shoot with both eyes open...it help when shooting moving
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 30, 2004
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                                      I'll bet your friend said get a left handed bow! Make sure you are left eye
                                      dominate! You should shoot with both eyes open...it help when shooting
                                      moving targets to get depth perseption. Since you are new at shooting
                                      starting left handed will not feel funny.

                                      James Cunningham

                                      > A friend came over last night, and helped me string my bow, and take some
                                      > practice pulls. He helped me a bit with my form. He's not our Marshall but
                                      he
                                      > grew up hunting with a traditional bow, and seems to know what he's
                                      talking
                                      > about.
                                      >
                                      > I found myself automatically closing my right eye, and wanting to "aim"
                                      with
                                      > my left eye. I'm right handed, sort of. The bow is right handed. I don't
                                      even
                                      > have any arrows yet, but I'm thinking this might cause some trouble when I
                                      do
                                      > start trying to hit targets.
                                      >
                                      > Should I maybe try to keep both eyes open, or switch to a left handed bow?
                                      > Maybe I should have a right and left handed bow and take turns. :)
                                      >
                                      > Kiley
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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