Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-Archery] aroow question

Expand Messages
  • kilmye@aol.com
    Caelain, I m sure you ll get some specific answers to your questions, but you might want to go into the archives, and check out some of the recent threads. I m
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Caelain,

      I'm sure you'll get some specific answers to your questions, but you might
      want to go into the archives, and check out some of the recent threads. I'm also
      very new to all this, and have been grilling the experts here about arrows.
      My questions were a bit different than yours, but you might find some helpful
      bits in there anyway. I want to learn to make my own, and we were talking about
      how and wear to get good deals on ready mades, when a bargain is really a
      bargain, how to find/make cheap arrow making tools, and so on. That won't answer
      all your questions, especially why your arrows aren't going straight, but I'm
      sure you'll get answers about that as well. This group is very kind to us
      newbies.

      Kiley


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bruce R. Gordon
      Greetings The numbers you refer to indicate that the bow pulls 25 pounds at a 24 inch drawlength. In English, that means that when you pull back the string 2
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings
        The numbers you refer to indicate that the bow pulls 25 pounds at
        a 24 inch drawlength. In English, that means that when you pull back
        the string 2 feet from thewhere your hand is gripping the stave, the
        bow will exert 25 lbs. of pressure on the arrow. Sort of. (Physics
        people, cut me some slack here, I'm simplifying, I know...)
        Usually, when someone says that a particular arrow isn't "right"
        for a particular bow, what they mean is that the arrows "spine" - it's
        relative stiffness or flexibility - is out of synch with that type of
        bow. An arrow that is too stiff and massive won't perform as well,
        overall, as one that is just right. An arrow that is significantly
        lighter and too flexible is a potential safety hazard - in extreme
        cases a massive bow could shatter a very light arrow.
        Your bow is fairly light poundage, so it may be that you are being
        told that your arrows are too heavy; I'd have to look at them, or get
        more info before deciding.
        But an arrow that's too heavy won't typically fly high and to the
        left - that sounds more like a release problem, or possibly a sighting
        problem. What I would suggest is to get someone to look very closely at
        you as you shoot - literally stand close to you and look carefully at
        small movements you might be making. If you can stand the distraction,
        a very powerful training tool is a videocam, which will allow you to
        look very carefully at things you do yourself. Look from the side, and
        also look from behind. If they are knowledgeable, they might spot
        irregular release habits. Things like plucking the string instead of
        smoothly getting your fingers out of the way, or following the string
        for an moment after release with your hand. Looking at your arm from
        behind might reveal a slight arm-jerk just at the moment of release, a
        very common tendency that can have a major effect on arrow flight if
        you don't realize it's happening.

        Nigel FitzMaurice

        > Hello,
        > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
        > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
        > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
        > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
        > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
        > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
        > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
        > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
        > Thank you very much,
        > Caelainn
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        >
        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Ex Tenebra, Lux

        http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
      • carlDOTwest
        ... I suspect Nigel has hit it here. Where are you anchoring ? Just before you release the arrow, where is your string hand? That s your anchor point. Just
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

          > ...
          > But an arrow that's too heavy won't typically fly high and to the
          > left - that sounds more like a release problem,


          I suspect Nigel has hit it here.

          Where are you 'anchoring'?
          Just before you release the arrow, where is your string hand?
          That's your anchor point.
          Just after the arrow leaves your bow, where is your string hand?
          I'm betting that it's lower and to the right of your anchor point.


          -- Fritz


          If you try to 'reply' to me without fixing the dot, your reply
          will go into a 'special' mailbox reserved for spam. See below.


          --
          Carl West carlDOTwest@... http://carl.west.home.comcast.net

          >>>>>>>> change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me <<<<<<<<<<<<

          "Clutter"? This is an object-rich environment.
        • Nest verch Tangwistel
          I think Nigel has probably hit it. There may also be an issue about aiming too. I found when I was shooting a longbow, and I used the tip of the arrow to aim,
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I think Nigel has probably hit it. There may also be an issue about aiming
            too. I found when I was shooting a longbow, and I used the tip of the
            arrow to aim, I had to aim wuite a bit to the right to get it to hit the
            target. Since I hold the string (anchor) on the right side of my face, I
            am actually looking across it at an angle, not straight down the arrow.
            therefore I see the tip off to the right eventhough the arrow is pointing
            right at the target. I never ended up aiming arrows off that bow at the
            target. I still don't aim at the target with my recurve. My eye just is
            not directly above the arrow. I have noticed with new shooters that come
            to my practice when they are just starting out, they really want to aim at
            the target no matter where their arrows go. Good luck.

            Nest
            --- lady_caelainn <wintermoonmaiden@...> wrote:
            > Hello,
            > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
            > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
            > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
            > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
            > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
            > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
            > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
            > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
            > Thank you very much,
            > Caelainn
            >
            >
            >
            > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            >
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >





            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
            http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
          • Chad Wilson
            Caelainn wrote, I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit frustrating. Two things to try and correct this, barring changes to the arrows themselves:
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Caelainn wrote, "I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
              frustrating."

              Two things to try and correct this, barring changes to the arrows
              themselves:

              1. Do not tense up your arm that holds the bow. When you tense up
              those muscles, upon arrow release, your arm will move. You want to
              use just enough muscle to hold steady. Also, don't squeeze the bow
              with your hand, just wrap your fingers around with enough strength to
              hold it steady.

              2. Check your string nock, that thing on the string to keep the
              arrow nock in place can move. Or it can be too high or low. The
              arrow should come off the bow into its gentle arc. If you, or a
              spotter, notices that the tail end of the arrow is going up and down,
              move the nock up or down until it stops fluttering.

              3. Aim lower and more to the right.

              *grin*

              Whatever you do, only correct one thing at a time. It is hard to
              learn what you are doing wrong if you throw too many solutions at a
              problem at one time.

              -Caedmon
            • banzhof
              Caelainn, If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving advise: 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot? 2. Are you aiming using the tip of
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Caelainn,

                If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving advise:

                1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?

                2. Are you aiming using the tip of the arrow?

                3. Is your eye directly above the arrow; or is it off to one side?


                Longbows can be tricky beasts to shoot consistantly. Stiffness of the arrow
                will influence R/L; as will eye position in relation to the arrow. Up/down
                is related to height of eye above arrow and point of aim. Tilting the bow
                will primarily change R/L.

                Don'y give up, longbows are a lot of fun.

                Alan of Caerlaverock, Forrester of the Greenwood
              • lady_caelainn
                ... No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest when I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but left eye dominant
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "banzhof" <banzhof@d...> wrote:
                  > Caelainn,
                  >
                  > If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving advise:
                  >
                  > 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?

                  No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest when
                  I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but
                  left eye dominant (sp?). So I tilt the bow. I am not getting a new
                  bow because this one was carved custom for me.

                  >
                  > 2. Are you aiming using the tip of the arrow?

                  I try to yes.

                  >
                  > 3. Is your eye directly above the arrow; or is it off to one side?

                  I think so. Not sure on that one. I am going out to shoot tomorrow, I
                  could pay attention to that then.
                  >
                  >
                  > Longbows can be tricky beasts to shoot consistantly. Stiffness of
                  the arrow
                  > will influence R/L; as will eye position in relation to the arrow.
                  Up/down
                  > is related to height of eye above arrow and point of aim. Tilting
                  the bow
                  > will primarily change R/L.
                  >
                  > Don'y give up, longbows are a lot of fun.
                  >
                  > Alan of Caerlaverock, Forrester of the Greenwood

                  Thanks- Caelainn
                • lady_caelainn
                  ... I try to do it right on my cheek, next to my mouth. ... I shall try to pay better attention to how I release the string. Consistancy is something I need to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "carl.west" <carl.west@c...>
                    wrote:
                    > Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

                    > Where are you 'anchoring'?
                    > Just before you release the arrow, where is your string hand?

                    I try to do it right on my cheek, next to my mouth.

                    > That's your anchor point.
                    > Just after the arrow leaves your bow, where is your string hand?
                    > I'm betting that it's lower and to the right of your anchor point.
                    >
                    >
                    > -- Fritz


                    I shall try to pay better attention to how I release the string.
                    Consistancy is something I need to work on. But I still want new
                    arrows...
                  • lady_caelainn
                    ... to ... Well, I don t squeeze the bow with my hand. My girlfriend did while she was shooting and ended up with a blood blister. ... down, ... I do think the
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Chad Wilson" <chaderin@e...>
                      wrote:
                      > Caelainn wrote, "I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                      > frustrating."
                      >
                      > Two things to try and correct this, barring changes to the arrows
                      > themselves:
                      >
                      > 1. Do not tense up your arm that holds the bow. When you tense up
                      > those muscles, upon arrow release, your arm will move. You want to
                      > use just enough muscle to hold steady. Also, don't squeeze the bow
                      > with your hand, just wrap your fingers around with enough strength
                      to
                      > hold it steady.

                      Well, I don't squeeze the bow with my hand. My girlfriend did while
                      she was shooting and ended up with a blood blister.

                      >
                      > 2. Check your string nock, that thing on the string to keep the
                      > arrow nock in place can move. Or it can be too high or low. The
                      > arrow should come off the bow into its gentle arc. If you, or a
                      > spotter, notices that the tail end of the arrow is going up and
                      down,
                      > move the nock up or down until it stops fluttering.

                      I do think the string nock is too low. Last time I shot I tried an
                      experiment and nocked the arrow above the nock on the string instead
                      of below it. Then I was just shooting to the left, instead of high
                      and to the left.


                      >
                      > 3. Aim lower and more to the right.
                      >
                      > *grin*

                      Haaa Haaa Haa
                      *L*
                      >
                      > Whatever you do, only correct one thing at a time. It is hard to
                      > learn what you are doing wrong if you throw too many solutions at a
                      > problem at one time.
                      >
                      > -Caedmon

                      I agree with you. If I change too many thing at once, I won't know
                      what is correct. One at a time.
                      Thanks,
                      Caelainn
                    • Heather & Steve English
                      For the eye dominance problem try an eye patch over the left eye. Lord Sveinn ... From: lady_caelainn To:
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        For the eye dominance problem try an eye patch over the left eye.

                        Lord Sveinn
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "lady_caelainn" <wintermoonmaiden@...>
                        To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 10:23 AM
                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] aroow question


                        > Hello,
                        > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
                        > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
                        > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
                        > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
                        > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                        > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
                        > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
                        > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
                        > Thank you very much,
                        > Caelainn
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        >
                        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Nest verch Tangwistel
                        ... when ... So you are shooting right handed, but are left eye dominant? Do you have both eyes open? Your dominant eye is probably doing the aiming. It would
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > >
                          > > 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?
                          >
                          > No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest
                          when
                          > I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but
                          > left eye dominant (sp?). So I tilt the bow. I am not getting a new
                          > bow because this one was carved custom for me.
                          >
                          So you are shooting right handed, but are left eye dominant? Do you
                          have both eyes open? Your dominant eye is probably doing the aiming.
                          It would be much further away from the arrow itself, forcing you to
                          aim even further over to the right to compensate. Try closing your
                          left eye when you shoot a couple of times and see what happens. If
                          you are really attached to the bow, and it sounds like you are, you
                          might try wearing an eye patch over the left eye to force the right
                          eye to take over.


                          Nest
                        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                          Greetings from James Cunningham to Caelainn You said you were new to SCA archery, How much mundain archery experience do you have? If you are shooting left
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Greetings from James Cunningham to Caelainn

                            You said you were new to SCA archery, How much mundain archery experience
                            do you have?
                            If you are shooting left and high every time that is a very good thing
                            because all you have to do is move your aim point low and right by an equal
                            amount. But first I need to know how many days a week you practice and how
                            many hundred arrows you you shoot during each practice? I need to know
                            where you are at in archery skill to make a judgement on your equipment.

                            James Cunningham

                            > Hello,
                            > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
                            > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
                            > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches long.
                            > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for the
                            > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                            > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't know
                            > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
                            > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
                            > Thank you very much,
                            > Caelainn
                            >
                            >
                          • Carolus Eulenhorst
                            Assuming you are a right handed archer, this sounds very much like you are exploding on your release. That is that your bow hand is jerking slightly upwards
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Assuming you are a right handed archer, this sounds very much like you
                              are "exploding" on your release. That is that your bow hand is jerking
                              slightly upwards and to the left on release. This is quite common in new
                              archers. The advise to have someone watch you shoot is the best here.
                              You don't say where you are, we may be able to get you in touch with
                              someone if we know what kingdom you are in.

                              In service to the dream
                              Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              eulenhorst@...
                              Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                              Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)

                              On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:23:23 -0000 "lady_caelainn"
                              <wintermoonmaiden@...> writes:
                              > Hello,
                              > I'm very new to SCA archery. Haven't even shot at an event yet. I
                              > have a hickory longbow (roughly 64 inches long). The numbers on it
                              > are 24" 25#. My arrows are cedar, homemade, about 26 1/2 inches
                              > long.
                              > I've been told that these aren't the arrows I should be using for
                              > the
                              > type of bow I have. I shoot left and high every time and it is a bit
                              >
                              > frustrating. Admitingly, not knowing much about archery, I don't
                              > know
                              > how different arrows can help, or what kind to get at a reasonable
                              > price. If anyone can help I would most appreciate it.
                              > Thank you very much,
                              > Caelainn

                              ________________________________________________________________
                              The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                              Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                              Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                            • Carolus Eulenhorst
                              Here is a major problem. I find it best to retrain archers to shoot drawing with the same hand as their dominant eye. I am in the same boat and changing to
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 28, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Here is a major problem. I find it best to retrain archers to shoot
                                drawing with the same hand as their dominant eye. I am in the same boat
                                and changing to shoot left handed was the best thing I have ever done.
                                This explains exactly the situation you are describing. your point of
                                aim is based on the angle from your left eye across the point of the
                                arrow to the point of aim. Drawing with the right hand will cause
                                considerable deflection to the left.
                                Carolus


                                On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:26:32 -0000 "lady_caelainn"
                                <wintermoonmaiden@...> writes:
                                > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "banzhof" <banzhof@d...> wrote:
                                > > Caelainn,
                                > >
                                > > If you can answer a few questions, it would help in giving
                                > advise:
                                > >
                                > > 1. Do you hold the bow vertical when you shoot?
                                >
                                > No. When I did that, the arrow would actually fall off the rest when
                                >
                                > I was trying to shoot. Very dangerous. Also, I am right handed but
                                > left eye dominant (sp?). So I tilt the bow. I am not getting a new
                                > bow because this one was carved custom for me.
                                >
                                > >
                                > > 2. Are you aiming using the tip of the arrow?
                                >
                                > I try to yes.
                                >
                                > >
                                > > 3. Is your eye directly above the arrow; or is it off to one
                                > side?
                                >
                                > I think so. Not sure on that one. I am going out to shoot tomorrow,
                                > I
                                > could pay attention to that then.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Longbows can be tricky beasts to shoot consistantly. Stiffness of
                                >
                                > the arrow
                                > > will influence R/L; as will eye position in relation to the arrow.
                                >
                                > Up/down
                                > > is related to height of eye above arrow and point of aim. Tilting
                                >
                                > the bow
                                > > will primarily change R/L.
                                > >
                                > > Don'y give up, longbows are a lot of fun.
                                > >
                                > > Alan of Caerlaverock, Forrester of the Greenwood
                                >
                                > Thanks- Caelainn

                                ________________________________________________________________
                                The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                                Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                                Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                              • Chad Wilson
                                My wife had a left-eye dominant eye problem. She is a right-handed shooter and getting a new bow was not in the budget at the time. It was suggested to her
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 29, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  My wife had a left-eye dominant eye problem. She is a right-handed
                                  shooter and getting a new bow was not in the budget at the time. It
                                  was suggested to her to wear an eye patch over her left eye while
                                  shooting.

                                  So, she made up a nifty eye patch using baronial colors and heck if
                                  it didn't work like a charm.

                                  -Caedmon
                                • Kinjal of Moravia
                                  ... handed ... It ... if ... ..................................................... Neat!! course if one learns to shoot with their eyes shut .... remembering
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 30, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Chad Wilson" <chaderin@e...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > My wife had a left-eye dominant eye problem. She is a right-
                                    handed
                                    > shooter and getting a new bow was not in the budget at the time.
                                    It
                                    > was suggested to her to wear an eye patch over her left eye while
                                    > shooting.
                                    >
                                    > So, she made up a nifty eye patch using baronial colors and heck
                                    if
                                    > it didn't work like a charm.
                                    >
                                    > -Caedmon

                                    .....................................................

                                    Neat!! course if one learns to shoot with their eyes shut ....

                                    remembering his grandfather,
                                    kinjal
                                  • kilmye@aol.com
                                    A friend came over last night, and helped me string my bow, and take some practice pulls. He helped me a bit with my form. He s not our Marshall but he grew up
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 30, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      A friend came over last night, and helped me string my bow, and take some
                                      practice pulls. He helped me a bit with my form. He's not our Marshall but he
                                      grew up hunting with a traditional bow, and seems to know what he's talking
                                      about.

                                      I found myself automatically closing my right eye, and wanting to "aim" with
                                      my left eye. I'm right handed, sort of. The bow is right handed. I don't even
                                      have any arrows yet, but I'm thinking this might cause some trouble when I do
                                      start trying to hit targets.

                                      Should I maybe try to keep both eyes open, or switch to a left handed bow?
                                      Maybe I should have a right and left handed bow and take turns. :)

                                      Kiley


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                      I ll bet your friend said get a left handed bow! Make sure you are left eye dominate! You should shoot with both eyes open...it help when shooting moving
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 30, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I'll bet your friend said get a left handed bow! Make sure you are left eye
                                        dominate! You should shoot with both eyes open...it help when shooting
                                        moving targets to get depth perseption. Since you are new at shooting
                                        starting left handed will not feel funny.

                                        James Cunningham

                                        > A friend came over last night, and helped me string my bow, and take some
                                        > practice pulls. He helped me a bit with my form. He's not our Marshall but
                                        he
                                        > grew up hunting with a traditional bow, and seems to know what he's
                                        talking
                                        > about.
                                        >
                                        > I found myself automatically closing my right eye, and wanting to "aim"
                                        with
                                        > my left eye. I'm right handed, sort of. The bow is right handed. I don't
                                        even
                                        > have any arrows yet, but I'm thinking this might cause some trouble when I
                                        do
                                        > start trying to hit targets.
                                        >
                                        > Should I maybe try to keep both eyes open, or switch to a left handed bow?
                                        > Maybe I should have a right and left handed bow and take turns. :)
                                        >
                                        > Kiley
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                                        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                        >
                                        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.