Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Unicorn Wreath Challenge

Expand Messages
  • Chad Wilson
    http://my.erinet.com/~chaderin/wreath/main.html Here is the preliminary web site for the Unicorn Wreath Challenge. Look it over, continue to make comments. I
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 18 8:07 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      http://my.erinet.com/~chaderin/wreath/main.html

      Here is the preliminary web site for the Unicorn Wreath Challenge.
      Look it over, continue to make comments. I would like to have the
      rules set in stone by next week so the "season" for this shoot can
      begin April 1st and end October 31st. Plenty of time to wear out our
      bows, arrows and targets.

      -Caedmon
    • John edgerton
      The archer does not need to shoot all distances consecutively in a day to shoot the next distance. Once a distance has been completed, you can pick up at the
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 18 9:36 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        "The archer does not need to shoot all distances consecutively in a day
        to shoot the next distance. Once a distance has been completed, you can
        pick up at the next target distance whenever or wherever you need to do
        so. (ie, you can complete 10 and 20 yard one day, wait a week and pick
        up at 30 yards, etc)"

        You might want to add something to the effect that .... the archer may
        continue shooting their 10 arrows as often as they wish at an event,
        until all 10 arrows have scored within the circle and then move to the
        next distance.

        Should make it clear that the archer can continue to shoot until the
        distance is completed. Those of us that have been following this
        discussion know this. But, it is possible that someone that just gets
        the rules from the web might not understand that. In my twenty years of
        running the IKAC I found that it is amazing what can be misunderstood.
        :-) When writing rules, one should read them with the intent of
        "misreading" them to see how others might interpret them.

        Jon


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John edgerton
        Just one more suggestion. ;-) Perhaps garland instead of wreath. Garland seems to be the more period usage when referring to archery. Check in some of the
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 18 10:41 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Just one more suggestion. ;-)

          Perhaps garland instead of wreath. Garland seems to be the more period
          usage when referring to archery. Check in some of the Robin Hood
          legends.

          Jon
        • Nest verch Tangwistel
          Please, submit scores for completed and non-completed distances. If you are shooting at 30 yards and only score 7 arrows, then submit that so all can see you
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 18 10:46 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            "Please, submit scores for completed and non-completed distances. If you
            are shooting at 30 yards and only score 7 arrows, then submit that so all
            can see you progress. When you reach 8 or more, then submit that score
            until you complete the distance."

            This seems to say that we should just always submit partial scores. Is
            that what you mean? And then we should only submit a new score when it is
            higher?

            I realize you don't have it officially open yet, but I think I will run a
            preliminary attempt at this tonight at my usual practice and see how
            people like it and if there are any unforseen problems.

            I have an indoor range up to 40 yards and a couple of pretty good shooters
            in the group so we will see how it flies (so to speak). Now the main idea
            is to shoot 10 arrow consecutively in two 5 arrow end and get them all in
            the 12 inch ring. someone on this list said they thought we would blow
            through the yardages up to 40. I am not that confident, so we will see. I
            have the archers who are currently ranked second, fourth and tenth in the
            royal round rankings for the East Kingdom, and some people who have only
            been shooting for a couple weeks. That should give us a fairly good idea
            of how everyone will do.

            Nest verch Tangwistel
            Marshall East Kingdom

            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
            http://mail.yahoo.com
          • Chad Wilson
            ... If you ... so all ... score ... Would somebody like to rephrase this paragraph of the rules for me into simpler or more understandable language? The intent
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 18 10:59 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Nest verch Tangwistel
              <eastarch@y...> wrote:
              >
              > "Please, submit scores for completed and non-completed distances.
              If you
              > are shooting at 30 yards and only score 7 arrows, then submit that
              so all
              > can see you progress. When you reach 8 or more, then submit that
              score
              > until you complete the distance."

              Would somebody like to rephrase this paragraph of the rules for me
              into simpler or more understandable language?

              The intent is that archers should submit a score, even if it wasn't
              10 out of 10 at a given distance, and to keep submitting scores as
              they improve until they get the 10 out of 10 for the distance they
              are working on. They should, of course, submit their perfect score
              when they get it.

              -Caedmon
            • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
              ... I still think the easiest thing, is what Sir Jon suggested when we went to 10 arrows . You take the last range you completed, plus the number in from
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 18 11:14 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                >Would somebody like to rephrase this paragraph of the rules for me
                >into simpler or more understandable language?
                >
                >The intent is that archers should submit a score, even if it wasn't
                >10 out of 10 at a given distance, and to keep submitting scores as
                >they improve until they get the 10 out of 10 for the distance they
                >are working on. They should, of course, submit their perfect score
                >when they get it.

                I still think the easiest thing, is what Sir Jon suggested when we went to
                '10 arrows'. You take the last range you completed, plus the number 'in'
                from your new range, and that is your score. That way it's a simple
                number to keep reporting and see growing, and not a 'completed 30, at 40
                and got 7' ... you just say '37', and it means the same thing. This could
                be written as:

                "To submit your score, add the yardage of the last distance you
                successfully completed, to the number of shafts you had in the ring at your
                current distance. This becomes your total score. Therefore, if you had
                successfully completed 30yds, and then got 7 in at 40 yards, your score
                would be 37. If you successfully complete 40yds, but don't bother trying
                for higher yet, then your score would be simply 40."

                Siegfried



                ___________________________________________________________________________
                THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
              • John Edgerton
                Archers should continue to submit any scores higher than their previous submitted score. It is not necessary to submit scores that are lower or the same as
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 18 11:16 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Archers should continue to submit any scores higher than their previous
                  submitted score. It is not necessary to submit scores that are lower or
                  the same as their previous high score.

                  Or something to that effect.

                  Jon

                  Chad Wilson wrote:

                  >--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Nest verch Tangwistel
                  ><eastarch@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>"Please, submit scores for completed and non-completed distances.
                  >>
                  >If you
                  >
                  >>are shooting at 30 yards and only score 7 arrows, then submit that
                  >>
                  >so all
                  >
                  >>can see you progress. When you reach 8 or more, then submit that
                  >>
                  >score
                  >
                  >>until you complete the distance."
                  >>
                  >
                  >Would somebody like to rephrase this paragraph of the rules for me
                  >into simpler or more understandable language?
                  >
                  >The intent is that archers should submit a score, even if it wasn't
                  >10 out of 10 at a given distance, and to keep submitting scores as
                  >they improve until they get the 10 out of 10 for the distance they
                  >are working on. They should, of course, submit their perfect score
                  >when they get it.
                  >
                  >-Caedmon
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nest verch Tangwistel
                  What about something like: Scoring will be one point per arrow inside the 12 circle. Please submit all new scores as a total of ten points for each distance
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 18 11:32 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    What about something like:

                    Scoring will be one point per arrow inside the 12" circle. Please submit
                    all new scores as a total of ten points for each distance completed plus
                    scoring arrows in furthest distance. For Example 10 yards = 10 points, 20
                    yards = 10 points, 30 yards= 7 points; Total 27 points.

                    Is this right?

                    Nest
                    --- Chad Wilson <chaderin@...> wrote:
                    > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Nest verch Tangwistel
                    > <eastarch@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > "Please, submit scores for completed and non-completed distances.
                    > If you
                    > > are shooting at 30 yards and only score 7 arrows, then submit that
                    > so all
                    > > can see you progress. When you reach 8 or more, then submit that
                    > score
                    > > until you complete the distance."
                    >
                    > Would somebody like to rephrase this paragraph of the rules for me
                    > into simpler or more understandable language?
                    >
                    > The intent is that archers should submit a score, even if it wasn't
                    > 10 out of 10 at a given distance, and to keep submitting scores as
                    > they improve until they get the 10 out of 10 for the distance they
                    > are working on. They should, of course, submit their perfect score
                    > when they get it.
                    >
                    > -Caedmon
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                    > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • John edgerton
                    That looks like a good way of stating it. Jon On Thursday, March 18, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 18 12:16 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      That looks like a good way of stating it.

                      Jon

                      On Thursday, March 18, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > "To submit your score, add the yardage of the last distance you
                      > successfully completed, to the number of shafts you had in the ring at
                      > your
                      > current distance. This becomes your total score. Therefore, if you
                      > had
                      > successfully completed 30yds, and then got 7 in at 40 yards, your score
                      > would be 37. If you successfully complete 40yds, but don't bother
                      > trying
                      > for higher yet, then your score would be simply 40."
                      >
                      > Siegfried
                      >
                    • Chad Wilson
                      Okay, I didn t take the whole night to ponder it. I went ahead and made the changes to the web pages (http://my.erinet.com/~chaderin/wreath/main.html) to see
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 18 12:47 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Okay, I didn't take the whole night to ponder it.

                        I went ahead and made the changes to the web pages
                        (http://my.erinet.com/~chaderin/wreath/main.html) to see how things
                        looked and using the suggested scoring method, it allowed the results
                        page to have a much cleaner look.

                        I think I like that better than the numerous other pages I would have
                        been creating.

                        Excellent suggestion, Sieg et al.

                        -Caedmon
                        happy with the improvements
                      • John edgerton
                        The target for this challenge is a wreath. For standardization, a 12 diameter circle drawn on paper to represent the wreath will be used to represent
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 18 1:09 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          "The target for this challenge is a wreath. For standardization, a 12"
                          diameter circle drawn on paper to represent the wreath will be used to
                          represent **addition** (the scoring area within the) wreath. A real
                          wreath may be placed **addition** ( around the outer circumference of
                          ) the circle for an enhanced period look, but the 12" circle is what
                          matters for scoring. The circle must not be larger than the 12"
                          diameter from edge to edge."

                          I like your idea of now labeling the rules with the draft number.

                          Jon




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sherry Bishop
                          Just wanted to say that I think this shoot is a splendid idea! I, for one, cannot wait to try it out at Nest s practice tonight. Something different other than
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 18 1:17 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Just wanted to say that I think this shoot is a
                            splendid idea! I, for one, cannot wait to try it out
                            at Nest's practice tonight. Something different other
                            than royal rounds. We'll all let you know how it goes
                            :)

                            Seonaid MacPhie aka "Shea"
                            Barony of Smoking Rocks/
                            Dragon's Heorth

                            __________________________________
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                          • John edgerton
                            The arrow must be IN the circle, or touching the edge of the circle, to count **change** ( count to score). The arrows will be shot in two consecutive ends of
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 18 1:19 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "The arrow must be IN the circle, or touching the edge of the circle,
                              to count **change** ( count to score). The arrows will be shot in two
                              consecutive ends of 5 arrows each or one end of 10 arrows. All 10
                              arrows must score to complete the challenge at the given distance."

                              Changing count to score makes it consistent. No future question if
                              there is a difference between count and score.

                              Jon




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John edgerton
                              A possible modification to the target. I just measured twelve inches out on the face of a 60 cm five color face. This comes out just a bit over the center
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 18 4:31 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                A possible modification to the target. I just measured twelve inches
                                out on the face of a 60 cm five color face. This comes out just a bit
                                over the center line on the blue, half way between the red and the
                                black. If the diameter of the UWC target were to be changed to 11 3/4
                                inches (approximately, I was in a hurry) then it would be possible to
                                shoot the UWC on the same targets used for RRs and IKACs or other
                                competitions. It would be no harder to draw a 11 3/4 inch circle than
                                a 12 inch circle.

                                Whenever possible I would much prefer to see it shot with the wreath
                                and the circle or disk. Because it will have a much more period look.
                                However, when there is a limited amount of range space or target mats
                                and / or time, then being able to shoot in conjunction with other
                                competitions would be useful. For example, archers shooting the RR and
                                the UWC would be able to shot at and score on the same face when
                                necessary, at least up to the forty yard distance.

                                This might make it easier to establish the shooting of the UWC in areas
                                were the RR is the competition that is commonly shot.

                                Jon
                              • Chad and Erin Wilson
                                I just measured and your right, it is darn close. I have a ruler that is marked with tenths of an inch, and the 12 is just 2/10ths bigger. If someone is
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 18 7:03 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I just measured and your right, it is darn close. I have a ruler that is marked
                                  with tenths of an inch, and the 12" is just 2/10ths bigger.

                                  If someone is wanting to shoot their Wreath rounds, they could accept shooting
                                  at a slightly smaller target. As I have it written, one could interpret it to
                                  mean the target cannot be bigger than 12". Being slightly smaller would be
                                  okay...by 2/10ths of an inch in diameter smaller.

                                  -Caedmon
                                • Nest verch Tangwistel
                                  OK. We tried it out tonight. A couple of points came up. I made a target out of a piece of cardboard cut to a 12 circle and one of the brass rings from
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 18 7:08 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    OK. We tried it out tonight. A couple of points came up. I made a target
                                    out of a piece of cardboard cut to a 12' circle and one of the brass rings
                                    from Walmart.

                                    First, the brass ring just about disappears on a white background. By the
                                    time we got to 30 yards a couple of my archers with questionable vision
                                    could no longer see it. A bigger problem with the ring however was that a
                                    strong hit to the ring itself sprung it open. The ring was no longer
                                    exactly 12 inches across any more.

                                    I was expecting more of a problem with the scoring on the cardboard
                                    target. That didn't happen. It was easy to tell the arrow that were
                                    completely in the ring.

                                    The other thing people wanted to do was ignore the first end if the second
                                    was better. Not starting to score until they got a perfect 5.

                                    It was easier than I expected to get perfect scores at 10 and 20 yards. My
                                    best archers weren't there tonight so I didn't get to see how far they
                                    would go in one night. Even the archers which have only been shooting a
                                    couple months got their 10 yards. Though it did take them a couple of
                                    tries.

                                    All together most of the people enjoyed trying something new, and it went
                                    fairly smoothly.

                                    Nest

                                    __________________________________
                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                    Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  • John edgerton
                                    So ..... would it be possible to put something to that effect into the UWC rules allowing the use of the smaller target area on a standard 60 cm face when
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 18 7:14 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      So ..... would it be possible to put something to that effect into the
                                      UWC rules allowing the use of the smaller target area on a standard 60
                                      cm face when needed? It could make it easier for the MIC to have more
                                      than one competition going on at once.

                                      Jon

                                      On Thursday, March 18, 2004, at 07:03 PM, Chad and Erin Wilson wrote:

                                      > I just measured and your right, it is darn close. I have a ruler that
                                      > is marked
                                      > with tenths of an inch, and the 12" is just 2/10ths bigger.
                                      >
                                      > If someone is wanting to shoot their Wreath rounds, they could accept
                                      > shooting
                                      > at a slightly smaller target. As I have it written, one could
                                      > interpret it to
                                      > mean the target cannot be bigger than 12". Being slightly smaller
                                      > would be
                                      > okay...by 2/10ths of an inch in diameter smaller.
                                      >
                                      > -Caedmon
                                    • Chad and Erin Wilson
                                      ... From: John edgerton ... I will, indeed, add that clause. It just makes sense to allow it. -Caedmon
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 18 7:46 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "John edgerton" <sirjon1@...>
                                        > So ..... would it be possible to put something to that effect into the
                                        > UWC rules allowing the use of the smaller target area on a standard 60
                                        > cm face when needed? It could make it easier for the MIC to have more
                                        > than one competition going on at once.

                                        I will, indeed, add that clause. It just makes sense to allow it.

                                        -Caedmon
                                      • Chad and Erin Wilson
                                        ... From: Nest verch Tangwistel ... Excellent. Actual data to test our arguments and theories. ... Did any of those ring hits cause the
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 18 7:54 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Nest verch Tangwistel" <eastarch@...>
                                          > OK. We tried it out tonight. A couple of points came up. I made a target
                                          > out of a piece of cardboard cut to a 12' circle and one of the brass rings
                                          > from Walmart.

                                          Excellent. Actual data to test our arguments and theories.

                                          > First, the brass ring just about disappears on a white background. By the
                                          > time we got to 30 yards a couple of my archers with questionable vision
                                          > could no longer see it. A bigger problem with the ring however was that a
                                          > strong hit to the ring itself sprung it open. The ring was no longer
                                          > exactly 12 inches across any more.

                                          Did any of those ring hits cause the arrow to bounce off? Or did they manage to
                                          skip in/out of the circle?

                                          > I was expecting more of a problem with the scoring on the cardboard
                                          > target. That didn't happen. It was easy to tell the arrow that were
                                          > completely in the ring.

                                          Excellent.

                                          > The other thing people wanted to do was ignore the first end if the second
                                          > was better. Not starting to score until they got a perfect 5.

                                          I suppose this falls into more of an ethical issue. The general spirit of the
                                          contest is that you declare "I am beginning" and shoot your 10 arrows. Since
                                          the rules explicitly allow the shooting as 2 ends of 5 arrows, then the
                                          situation could go like this:
                                          Archer: I am starting a score.
                                          [1 of 5 hit]
                                          Archer: I don't like that beginning. I'm starting over.
                                          [5 of 5 hit]
                                          Archer: Excellent start, I'm going to finish this one.

                                          The above situation is perfectly ethical, in my opinion, and doesn't break the
                                          rules as they are currently written. BUT, this method will mess up trying to
                                          submit scores that are less than 10 hits. At the end of the day, if you managed
                                          to get 8 of 10 at 30 yards, the marshal tallies your score and submits it if it
                                          is higher than your current mark. But, if the archer keeps stopping after 5
                                          arrows to start a new round, then you never get a complete 10 arrow-based result
                                          to report.

                                          Should the rules explicity state that an archer cannot do this? That they must
                                          shoot all 10 before starting a new round (barring equipment failure or other
                                          circumstances, of course)?

                                          > It was easier than I expected to get perfect scores at 10 and 20 yards. My
                                          > best archers weren't there tonight so I didn't get to see how far they
                                          > would go in one night. Even the archers which have only been shooting a
                                          > couple months got their 10 yards. Though it did take them a couple of
                                          > tries.

                                          Cool. Happy to read that.

                                          -Caedmon
                                        • Carl West
                                          ... Depends on what you want to test for: ability to eventually find the target, ability to know when you are on, or ability to just walk up to the line and
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 18 10:11 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Chad and Erin Wilson wrote:
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Nest verch Tangwistel" <eastarch@...>
                                            > > OK. We tried it out tonight. A couple of points came up. I made a target
                                            > > out of a piece of cardboard cut to a 12' circle and one of the brass rings
                                            > > from Walmart.
                                            >
                                            > Excellent. Actual data to test our arguments and theories.
                                            >
                                            > > First, the brass ring just about disappears on a white background. By the
                                            > > time we got to 30 yards a couple of my archers with questionable vision
                                            > > could no longer see it. A bigger problem with the ring however was that a
                                            > > strong hit to the ring itself sprung it open. The ring was no longer
                                            > > exactly 12 inches across any more.
                                            >
                                            > Did any of those ring hits cause the arrow to bounce off? Or did they manage to
                                            > skip in/out of the circle?
                                            >
                                            > > I was expecting more of a problem with the scoring on the cardboard
                                            > > target. That didn't happen. It was easy to tell the arrow that were
                                            > > completely in the ring.
                                            >
                                            > Excellent.
                                            >
                                            > > The other thing people wanted to do was ignore the first end if the second
                                            > > was better. Not starting to score until they got a perfect 5.
                                            >
                                            > I suppose this falls into more of an ethical issue. The general spirit of the
                                            > contest is that you declare "I am beginning" and shoot your 10 arrows. Since
                                            > the rules explicitly allow the shooting as 2 ends of 5 arrows, then the
                                            > situation could go like this:
                                            > Archer: I am starting a score.
                                            > [1 of 5 hit]
                                            > Archer: I don't like that beginning. I'm starting over.
                                            > [5 of 5 hit]
                                            > Archer: Excellent start, I'm going to finish this one.
                                            >
                                            > The above situation is perfectly ethical, in my opinion, and doesn't break the
                                            > rules as they are currently written. BUT, this method will mess up trying to
                                            > submit scores that are less than 10 hits. At the end of the day, if you managed
                                            > to get 8 of 10 at 30 yards, the marshal tallies your score and submits it if it
                                            > is higher than your current mark. But, if the archer keeps stopping after 5
                                            > arrows to start a new round, then you never get a complete 10 arrow-based result
                                            > to report.
                                            >
                                            > Should the rules explicity state that an archer cannot do this? That they must
                                            > shoot all 10 before starting a new round (barring equipment failure or other
                                            > circumstances, of course)?

                                            Depends on what you want to test for: ability to eventually find the target, ability to know when you are on, or ability to just walk up to the line and hit the target.

                                            The extreme case is to shoot a whole series of 5 arrow ends, record them all in order then go back and choose the the best contiguous pair.

                                            I'd prefer the archer declare and finish each round of ten.

                                            Really ballsy would be to always only submit your first ten shots of the day. ;)

                                            -- Fritz (who probably wouldn't get very far like that)


                                            If you try to 'reply' to me without fixing the dot, your reply
                                            will go into a 'special' mailbox reserved for spam. See below.


                                            --
                                            Carl West carlDOTwest@... http://carl.west.home.comcast.net

                                            >>>>>>>> change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me <<<<<<<<<<<<

                                            "Clutter"? This is an object-rich environment.
                                          • Carolus Eulenhorst
                                            I put the word out on Caid s target archery list tonite and called for kingdom participation. This looks like a lot of fun and should push archers. I am
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 19 12:08 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I put the word out on Caid's target archery list tonite and called for
                                              kingdom participation. This looks like a lot of fun and should push
                                              archers. I am planning on setting up for this at Great Western War where
                                              I will be able to have 180 yds or so.
                                              Carolus

                                              On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:08:07 -0800 (PST) Nest verch Tangwistel
                                              <eastarch@...> writes:
                                              > OK. We tried it out tonight. A couple of points came up. I made a
                                              > target
                                              > out of a piece of cardboard cut to a 12' circle and one of the brass
                                              > rings
                                              > from Walmart.
                                              >
                                              > First, the brass ring just about disappears on a white background.
                                              > By the
                                              > time we got to 30 yards a couple of my archers with questionable
                                              > vision
                                              > could no longer see it. A bigger problem with the ring however was
                                              > that a
                                              > strong hit to the ring itself sprung it open. The ring was no
                                              > longer
                                              > exactly 12 inches across any more.
                                              >
                                              > I was expecting more of a problem with the scoring on the cardboard
                                              > target. That didn't happen. It was easy to tell the arrow that were
                                              > completely in the ring.
                                              >
                                              > The other thing people wanted to do was ignore the first end if the
                                              > second
                                              > was better. Not starting to score until they got a perfect 5.
                                              >
                                              > It was easier than I expected to get perfect scores at 10 and 20
                                              > yards. My
                                              > best archers weren't there tonight so I didn't get to see how far
                                              > they
                                              > would go in one night. Even the archers which have only been
                                              > shooting a
                                              > couple months got their 10 yards. Though it did take them a couple
                                              > of
                                              > tries.
                                              >
                                              > All together most of the people enjoyed trying something new, and it
                                              > went
                                              > fairly smoothly.
                                              >
                                              > Nest

                                              ________________________________________________________________
                                              The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                                              Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                                              Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                                            • Carolus Eulenhorst
                                              Most definitely. Declare that you are shooting a round and then shoot 10 arrows for score. If the archer doesn t like it he can simply shoot another 10 for
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 19 12:32 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Most definitely. Declare that you are shooting a round and then shoot 10
                                                arrows for score. If the archer doesn't like it he can simply shoot
                                                another 10 for another score. The rules explicitly state that an archer
                                                can take as many tries as he needs to get his 10.

                                                In service to the dream
                                                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                                eulenhorst@...
                                                Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                                                Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)

                                                On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:54:35 -0500 "Chad and Erin Wilson"
                                                <chaderin@...> writes:
                                                >snip
                                                > I suppose this falls into more of an ethical issue. The general
                                                > spirit of the
                                                > contest is that you declare "I am beginning" and shoot your 10
                                                > arrows. Since
                                                > the rules explicitly allow the shooting as 2 ends of 5 arrows, then
                                                > the
                                                > situation could go like this:
                                                > Archer: I am starting a score.
                                                > [1 of 5 hit]
                                                > Archer: I don't like that beginning. I'm starting over.
                                                > [5 of 5 hit]
                                                > Archer: Excellent start, I'm going to finish this one.
                                                >
                                                > The above situation is perfectly ethical, in my opinion, and doesn't
                                                > break the
                                                > rules as they are currently written. BUT, this method will mess up
                                                > trying to
                                                > submit scores that are less than 10 hits. At the end of the day, if
                                                > you managed
                                                > to get 8 of 10 at 30 yards, the marshal tallies your score and
                                                > submits it if it
                                                > is higher than your current mark. But, if the archer keeps stopping
                                                > after 5
                                                > arrows to start a new round, then you never get a complete 10
                                                > arrow-based result
                                                > to report.
                                                >
                                                > Should the rules explicity state that an archer cannot do this?
                                                > That they must
                                                > shoot all 10 before starting a new round (barring equipment failure
                                                > or other
                                                > circumstances, of course)?
                                                >
                                                > >snip
                                                > -Caedmon

                                                ________________________________________________________________
                                                The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                                                Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                                                Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                                              • Nest verch Tangwistel
                                                ... All of the arrows that hit the ring, and there were quite a few, were either deflected inside or outside of it. At any rate they all stuck in the wall, and
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 19 4:36 AM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  > Did any of those ring hits cause the arrow to bounce off? Or did they
                                                  > manage to
                                                  > skip in/out of the circle?

                                                  All of the arrows that hit the ring, and there were quite a few, were
                                                  either deflected inside or outside of it. At any rate they all stuck in
                                                  the wall, and were easy to score.


                                                  > I suppose this falls into more of an ethical issue. The general spirit
                                                  > of the
                                                  > contest is that you declare "I am beginning" and shoot your 10 arrows.
                                                  > Since
                                                  > the rules explicitly allow the shooting as 2 ends of 5 arrows, then the
                                                  > situation could go like this:
                                                  > Archer: I am starting a score.
                                                  > [1 of 5 hit]
                                                  > Archer: I don't like that beginning. I'm starting over.
                                                  > [5 of 5 hit]
                                                  > Archer: Excellent start, I'm going to finish this one.

                                                  This is pretty much how it went. If they then didn't get the perfect score
                                                  for the second end that was the current working score and they started
                                                  over.

                                                  > The above situation is perfectly ethical, in my opinion, and doesn't
                                                  > break the
                                                  > rules as they are currently written. BUT, this method will mess up
                                                  > trying to
                                                  > submit scores that are less than 10 hits. At the end of the day, if you
                                                  > managed
                                                  > to get 8 of 10 at 30 yards, the marshal tallies your score and submits
                                                  > it if it
                                                  > is higher than your current mark. But, if the archer keeps stopping
                                                  > after 5
                                                  > arrows to start a new round, then you never get a complete 10
                                                  > arrow-based result
                                                  > to report.
                                                  >
                                                  > Should the rules explicity state that an archer cannot do this? That
                                                  > they must
                                                  > shoot all 10 before starting a new round (barring equipment failure or
                                                  > other
                                                  > circumstances, of course)?
                                                  >
                                                  I am not sure that is necessary. It will just lead to people "throwing
                                                  away" the shooting of the second end. It actually dragged on a bit anyway.


                                                  It ended up with the different archers shooting different distances almost
                                                  immediately. We ran it so that the archers that were still on 10 yards
                                                  shot first, then stepped behind the 20 yard line so those archers could
                                                  shoot, then everyone stepped behind the 30 yard line so the last archer
                                                  could shoot. Then we retrieved.

                                                  What the scores looked like:
                                                  T: 7
                                                  S: 10
                                                  N: 27
                                                  S2:17
                                                  V: 10
                                                  M: 10
                                                  People did try to get to one of the milestones before they stopped. That
                                                  took about an hour altogether.

                                                  Nest

                                                  __________________________________
                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                  Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                                                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                • John Edgerton
                                                  I agree with Carolus. Jon
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Mar 19 11:33 AM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I agree with Carolus.

                                                    Jon

                                                    Carolus Eulenhorst wrote:

                                                    >Most definitely. Declare that you are shooting a round and then shoot 10
                                                    >arrows for score. If the archer doesn't like it he can simply shoot
                                                    >another 10 for another score. The rules explicitly state that an archer
                                                    >can take as many tries as he needs to get his 10.
                                                    >
                                                    >In service to the dream
                                                    >Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                                    >
                                                  • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                                                    ... A pre-emptive piece of duct tape around the weld will stop this from happening ... or a duct tape fix afterwards :) Unless it wasn t the weld you are
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Mar 22 12:12 PM
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      >A bigger problem with the ring however was that a
                                                      >strong hit to the ring itself sprung it open. The ring was no longer
                                                      >exactly 12 inches across any more.

                                                      A pre-emptive piece of duct tape around the 'weld' will stop this from
                                                      happening ... or a duct tape 'fix' afterwards :)

                                                      Unless it wasn't the weld you are talking about, but the ring actually
                                                      bending. Which I haven't seen.

                                                      Siegfried



                                                      ___________________________________________________________________________
                                                      THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                                                      Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                                                      Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                                                      http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                                                    • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                                                      ... I don t think so ... unless you are going to state that shooting at other distances is allowed and doesn t break the scoring, and that all shots shot at
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Mar 22 12:16 PM
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        At 10:54 PM 3/18/2004, Chad and Erin Wilson wrote:
                                                        >Archer: I am starting a score.
                                                        >[1 of 5 hit]
                                                        >Archer: I don't like that beginning. I'm starting over.
                                                        >[5 of 5 hit]
                                                        >Archer: Excellent start, I'm going to finish this one.
                                                        >
                                                        >The above situation is perfectly ethical, in my opinion, and doesn't break the
                                                        >rules as they are currently written. BUT, this method will mess up trying to
                                                        >submit scores that are less than 10 hits. At the end of the day, if you
                                                        >managed
                                                        >to get 8 of 10 at 30 yards, the marshal tallies your score and submits it
                                                        >if it
                                                        >is higher than your current mark. But, if the archer keeps stopping after 5
                                                        >arrows to start a new round, then you never get a complete 10 arrow-based
                                                        >result
                                                        >to report.
                                                        >
                                                        >Should the rules explicity state that an archer cannot do this? That they
                                                        >must
                                                        >shoot all 10 before starting a new round (barring equipment failure or other
                                                        >circumstances, of course)?

                                                        I don't think so ... unless you are going to state that shooting at other
                                                        distances is allowed and doesn't break the scoring, and that all shots shot
                                                        at 'x' distance counts as a score.

                                                        Otherwise, someone can just 'oops', I shot at 10yds when I was supposed to
                                                        finish at 20, and invalidate the round.

                                                        Of course, you can't stop someone from just shooting their 5, realizing
                                                        that they messed up, and then just stepping back to the line, shooting 5
                                                        into the ground at their feet, and then starting a new round without having
                                                        to walk forward.

                                                        Just let it happen, it's all good :)

                                                        Siegfried



                                                        ___________________________________________________________________________
                                                        THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust http://crossbows.biz/
                                                        Barony of Highland Foorde Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                                                        Kingdom of Atlantia Deputy Kingdom Earl Marshal for Target Archery
                                                        http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/ http://archery.atlantia.sca.org/
                                                      • Chad Wilson
                                                        The Unicorn Wreath Challenge http://my.erinet.com/~chaderin/wreath/main.html As of today s update to the Wreath score listings: 21 Recurve (NS) 1 Recurve (S)
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , May 3, 2004
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          The Unicorn Wreath Challenge
                                                          http://my.erinet.com/~chaderin/wreath/main.html

                                                          As of today's update to the Wreath score listings:

                                                          21 Recurve (NS)
                                                          1 Recurve (S)
                                                          11 Longbow (NS)
                                                          0 Longbow (S)
                                                          6 Crossbow (NS)
                                                          1 Crossbow (S)

                                                          40 total score submission. Woo hoo!

                                                          In today's update, we welcome three scores submitted from the Barony
                                                          of Aarnimetsä in the kingdom of Drachenwald.

                                                          Keep the scores coming!

                                                          -Caedmon
                                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.