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RE: [SCA-Archery] new thread- was "Talhoffer and Mounted Crossbowman"

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  • Tessa the Huntress
    *Tessa FWIW, when I ve run a scenerio similar to this.. I ve had the archers use combat bolts/missiles. SOmetimes using combat missiles let s you have shoots
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 5, 2004
      *Tessa FWIW, when I've run a scenerio similar to this.. I've had the archers
      use combat bolts/missiles. SOmetimes using combat missiles let's you have
      shoots that you can't do safely with target missiles.

      Just a thought..

      Tessa the Huntress

      I will try to answer with in the text of the missive below. You will find
      my comments in ( ).

      ( Safety issues I have with this shoot is that the archer will not have
      complete control of His/Her weapon. The chance of premature release of the
      bolt/arrow is to great. Also the physical stress and discomfort that will
      happen when the archer has their body twisted during shooting. The lack of
      a clear view of the majority of the range. All of the above can affect the
      safety of the range if done in the standing position. )
    • Carolus Eulenhorst
      Unfortunately, as we have seen already, target bolts can cause serious injury to someone not properly armored. As I doubt anyone at a target range would have
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
        Unfortunately, as we have seen already, target bolts can cause serious
        injury to someone not properly armored. As I doubt anyone at a target
        range would have the proper armor, even this option presents too much
        chance of injury to be allowed on our ranges. The US in general but
        California in particular is litigation happy (and having recently done
        some research into the matter have found that this has been the case for
        a century now) thus making this a very high risk activity.
        Carolus


        On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:18:55 -0500 "Tessa the Huntress"
        <tessathehuntress@...> writes:
        > *Tessa FWIW, when I've run a scenerio similar to this.. I've had the
        > archers
        > use combat bolts/missiles. SOmetimes using combat missiles let's
        > you have
        > shoots that you can't do safely with target missiles.
        >
        > Just a thought..
        >
        > Tessa the Huntress

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      • Tessa the Huntress
        Actually, when I ve done scenerios like this.. we used golf tube arrows with the thrusting style head (2 to 3 ) of foam padding on 30 # and 600 # crossbows.
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
          Actually, when I've done scenerios like this.. we used golf tube arrows with
          the thrusting style head (2 to 3") of foam padding on 30 # and 600"#
          crossbows. Those don't even cause a bruise if they hit you..

          It's not something I would recommend doing if you were planning on shooting
          someone who wasn't in armor.. but if it was for a shoot that hasn't benn run
          before, for a bit of added security/safety.. it is an option.

          Of course, bottom line is what the marshal running the range (and teh one in
          charge) think. There have been scenerios and set ups that I've seen before
          that I've shut down or refused to run, since I did not feel they were safe.

          I mentioned using the combat arrows, since it is another option.. for
          specific scenerios and situations..

          No one has to use them :)

          Tessa


          Unfortunately, as we have seen already, target bolts can cause serious
          injury to someone not properly armored. As I doubt anyone at a target
          range would have the proper armor, even this option presents too much
          chance of injury to be allowed on our ranges. The US in general but
          California in particular is litigation happy (and having recently done
          some research into the matter have found that this has been the case for
          a century now) thus making this a very high risk activity.
          Carolus


          On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:18:55 -0500 "Tessa the Huntress"
          <tessathehuntress@...> writes:
          > *Tessa FWIW, when I've run a scenerio similar to this.. I've had the
          > archers
          > use combat bolts/missiles. SOmetimes using combat missiles let's
          > you have
          > shoots that you can't do safely with target missiles.
          >
          > Just a thought..
          >
          > Tessa the Huntress

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        • John Edgerton
          I do not see any real safety problem with a Parthian Shot as long as the bow or crossbow is only pointed at the ground until it is in line with the target and
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
            I do not see any real safety problem with a Parthian Shot as long as the
            bow or crossbow is only pointed at the ground until it is in line with
            the target and then can be brought up to aim at the target. I would also
            add, that the shooter should be in a stable position and not balancing
            on one foot, etc. I would not like to see it done where the shooter is
            facing away from the target and then turns, with cocked crossbow or hand
            bow up and at draw, 180 degrees to face the target. This could allow
            releases in directions other than toward the target or into the ground
            and is not safe.

            Jon
          • s.l.rees@ieee.org
            We did a mounted shoot at our Baronnial Champions last year. The finalists sat on a mount facing angled away from the targets. They shot looking back
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
              We did a 'mounted' shoot at our Baronnial Champions last year. The
              finalists sat on a 'mount' facing angled away from the targets. They shot
              looking back onto the target range. No one was beyond the shooting line
              and we had no problems with safety.

              Now, this was not a timed round, so they could look back and draw at their
              leisure. For a crossbow, they could have cocked it, looked back, loaded
              and shot. We did not have a crossbow in the finals. But I think it would
              have been fine.

              I'm looking forward to possibly doing this shoot again. Depending on what
              contest our champion wants her successor to go through.
              Shadhra
              Madrone Baronnial Archer


              > I do not see any real safety problem with a Parthian Shot as long as the
              > bow or crossbow is only pointed at the ground until it is in line with
              > the target and then can be brought up to aim at the target. I would also
              > add, that the shooter should be in a stable position and not balancing
              > on one foot, etc. I would not like to see it done where the shooter is
              > facing away from the target and then turns, with cocked crossbow or hand
              > bow up and at draw, 180 degrees to face the target. This could allow
              > releases in directions other than toward the target or into the ground
              > and is not safe.
              >
              > Jon
              >
            • J. Hughes
              We had a mounted shoot at the Archers to the Wald event in Steltonwald. It was from a stationary horse frame and aimed forward. _Saracen Archery_, I
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
                We had a "mounted shoot" at the Archers to the Wald
                event in Steltonwald. It was from a stationary "horse"
                frame and aimed forward. _Saracen Archery_, I believe
                (it might also be _Arab Archery_), has an entire
                training program for mounted archery that my people
                would like to shoot. My regional marshal, Mistress
                Aleea, keeps trying to get up a party to travel to
                Iowa for the mounted Archery event (non Society) they
                hold each year.

                I am still researching the various cultures that had
                mounted crossbowmen on how they worked their spanning
                devices. Some sort of hook on the belt, saddle, or
                stirrup probably.

                Charles O'Connor
                --- s.l.rees@... wrote:
                > We did a 'mounted' shoot at our Baronnial Champions
                > last year. The
                > finalists sat on a 'mount' facing angled away from
                > the targets. They shot
                > looking back onto the target range. No one was
                > beyond the shooting line
                > and we had no problems with safety.
                >
                > Now, this was not a timed round, so they could look
                > back and draw at their
                > leisure. For a crossbow, they could have cocked it,
                > looked back, loaded
                > and shot. We did not have a crossbow in the finals.
                > But I think it would
                > have been fine.
                >
                > I'm looking forward to possibly doing this shoot
                > again. Depending on what
                > contest our champion wants her successor to go
                > through.
                > Shadhra
                > Madrone Baronnial Archer


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              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                Greetings Ian I hope someday I will have the chance to meet him. ) I will be at Lillies/Gulf War and Maybe Pennsic this year...You will find me
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
                  Greetings Ian

                  <Snip>
                  I hope someday I will have the chance to meet him. )
                  <snip>
                  I will be at Lillies/Gulf War and Maybe Pennsic this year...You will find me
                  on the Archery Range or with my hawk.

                  Your points are well thought out. I have seen this shoot done safely and
                  not so safely. The key is that you need a safety zone not only infront of
                  the archer but also in any direction that he can swing his bow(left or
                  right). Like flying targets you have to leave room for early and late
                  shots. Some ranges cannot handle 90 degrees of clear area. But shooting at
                  the lions chasing your horse is very period.(not safe but period).

                  James Cunningham

                  > ( Safety issues I have with this shoot is that the archer will not have
                  complete control of His/Her weapon. The chance of premature release of the
                  bolt/arrow is to great. Also the physical stress and discomfort that will
                  happen when the archer has their body twisted during shooting. The lack of
                  a clear view of the majority of the range. All of the above can affect the
                  safety of the range if done in the standing position. )
                  <snip>
                  >
                • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                  I have seen someting similar. A turn, load, and shoot. It that cuts down the angle a little, but still requires close supervision. James Cunningham
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
                    I have seen someting similar. A turn, load, and shoot. It that cuts down
                    the angle a little, but still requires close supervision.

                    James Cunningham

                    > I do not see any real safety problem with a Parthian Shot as long as the
                    > bow or crossbow is only pointed at the ground until it is in line with
                    > the target and then can be brought up to aim at the target. I would also
                    > add, that the shooter should be in a stable position and not balancing
                    > on one foot, etc. I would not like to see it done where the shooter is
                    > facing away from the target and then turns, with cocked crossbow or hand
                    > bow up and at draw, 180 degrees to face the target. This could allow
                    > releases in directions other than toward the target or into the ground
                    > and is not safe.
                    >
                    > Jon
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Dan Scheid
                    ok I m sorry but siting on a barrel or fence or what ever is not anywhere near working off a horse. Can it be done safely? YES. But it is not easy to have a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 6, 2004
                      ok I'm sorry but siting on a barrel or fence or what ever is not anywhere
                      near working off a horse.
                      Can it be done safely? YES. But it is not easy to have a place. Where you
                      can ride safe and shoot safe and keep everyone else safe. Your looking a a 5
                      acre field to be sure you not going to A) hurt the horse B) hurt someone
                      watching. or C) hurt yourself.
                      And for those that don't know me.
                      well ask Carolus for the picture of the last GWW
                      Damales who is a little grumpy today

                      > We had a "mounted shoot" at the Archers to the Wald
                      > event in Steltonwald. It was from a stationary "horse"
                      > frame and aimed forward. _Saracen Archery_, I believe
                      > (it might also be _Arab Archery_), has an entire
                      > training program for mounted archery that my people
                      > would like to shoot. My regional marshal, Mistress
                      > Aleea, keeps trying to get up a party to travel to
                      > Iowa for the mounted Archery event (non Society) they
                      > hold each year.
                      >
                      > I am still researching the various cultures that had
                      > mounted crossbowmen on how they worked their spanning
                      > devices. Some sort of hook on the belt, saddle, or
                      > stirrup probably.
                      >
                      > Charles O'Connor
                      > --- s.l.rees@... wrote:
                      > > We did a 'mounted' shoot at our Baronnial Champions
                      > > last year. The
                      > > finalists sat on a 'mount' facing angled away from
                      > > the targets. They shot
                      > > looking back onto the target range. No one was
                      > > beyond the shooting line
                      > > and we had no problems with safety.
                      > >
                      > > Now, this was not a timed round, so they could look
                      > > back and draw at their
                      > > leisure. For a crossbow, they could have cocked it,
                      > > looked back, loaded
                      > > and shot. We did not have a crossbow in the finals.
                      > > But I think it would
                      > > have been fine.
                      > >
                      > > I'm looking forward to possibly doing this shoot
                      > > again. Depending on what
                      > > contest our champion wants her successor to go
                      > > through.
                      > > Shadhra
                      > > Madrone Baronnial Archer
                      >
                      >
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