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RE: [SCA-Archery]greetings

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  • Kathleen Lynn
    Greetings as well. I am Liadan. I come out of Three Rivers and Lonely tower in Calontir. We joke that I am still a newbie for I still have arrows from my first
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 5, 2003
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      Greetings as well.

      I am Liadan. I come out of Three Rivers and Lonely tower in Calontir. We
      joke that I am still a newbie for I still have arrows from my first dozen.
      Plus the fact that I've only been shooting for 4 months ;-) The archery
      thing hit me years ago, but the lack of a functional bow is a disadvantage.

      Liadan Mugain
      "what key are we in?" "the key of army!" "someone please give me an 'A'!"
    • blkknighti@aol.com
      Greetings my respected friend Lord Geoffre, I hope this finds you well. While I am inspired to write you because of the period/not-period thread on the SCA
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 28, 2005
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        Greetings my respected friend Lord Geoffre, I hope this finds you well.
        While I am inspired to write you because of the "period/not-period" thread on
        the SCA archery list I certianly do not wish to debate the merits of your
        posts, for and against. It does seem you are very irratated by the consideration
        of more period equiptment and I am quite suprised by your position and
        reasoning. None the less, your opinion is well respected in these quarters though on
        several points I would disagree. Again, this is not the cause for my writing.
        In fact, my intention is something quite away from that argument. I'm am not
        sure that you know that my Lady Treacaigh and myself prevailed in Acres Crown
        Tournament (in fact noone opposed us ;p ) and are currently Crown Prince and
        Princess. First I would be honoured if you would consider coming to our
        Coronation and acention to the Throne Jan 14 ....and perhaps come back to our
        Kingdom, if not as a member of the populace, visit us at some event(s) with archery
        or teach a class or two at a university and yet still musically or best yet
        simply so that we may enjoy your good company once again.

        Now.... just one thing ....in one of your replies you mentioned "there were
        no eyglasses". I know that you like to be exacting in your
        knowledge.....Actually, there were eyeglasses and quite easily documentable...the following should
        be evidence to sway you. I don't mean this to offend you but I think you'd
        like to be corrected if in error.


        \
        In 1289 in a Florentine manuscript entitled Traite de con uite de la famille,
        Sandra di Popozo wrote: "I am so debilitated by age that without the glasses
        known as spectacles, I would no longer be able to read or write. These have
        recently been invented for the benefit of poor old people whose sight has become
        weak". Years earlier, Friar Roger Bacon wrote a description of lenses to make
        letters bigger in his Opus Majus (1268) - so it's clear that the first
        spectacles were made somewhere between 1268 and 1289. 
        More historical evidence for the timeframe is heard in a sermon of a Father
        Giordano of Pisa who in 1306 pronounced, "It is not yet twenty years since the
        art of making spectacles, one of the most useful arts on earth, was
        discovered. I, myself, have seen and conversed with the man who made them first". 
        He fails to mention the man's name, of course, but the true identity of who
        first invented spectacles will probably never be known. 
        However, we do know that the first artistic depiction of eyeglasses was
        painted by Tommaso da Modena in his 1352 portrait of Hugh of Provence. The
        religious scholar is seen with his glasses studiously perched on his nose. Then, as
        now, the wearing of eyeglasses somehow evoked an air of thoughfulness, and the
        use of spectacles as a subject detail - in both medieval and early Renaissance
        painting - would soon come to symbolize a wealth of education and wisdom.

        In Servbice and with honour,
         
        In a message dated 10/28/05 10:59:38 AM, jrosswebb1@... writes:


        > Greetings,
        >       Why not ban all modern equipment and practices and only use period
        > equipment? Because NOBODY in the SCA would be able to play. Stainless steel did
        > not exist. Helmets in period were often only about 19 or 18 gauge steel.
        > Plastic arrow nocks didn't exist. Port Orford Cedar wasn't used. Turkey feathers
        > weren't used.
        > No one but little children  would be shooting bows that drew less than 60#(I
        > believe that even the Medieval woman was stronger). Left handed archers
        > would be thought of as evil and using the "devil's" eye. The distances that we
        > shoot at would be laughably close to the medieval archer.
        > Arrow points were quite different and usually iron, not steel. Full body
        > plate armor for all fightig on the field  never happened. Spandex didn't exist.
        > Eyeglasses didn't exist. Steel prod crossbows were rare for most people. No 
        > shoes had heels until after Henry VIII. Osage Orange can only be used by
        > people which have a Native American persona.Longbows did not have a static riser,
        > they worked through the entire stave.Recurves were quite common although
        > different than the Martin "Hunter". The very "period looking" Magyar horsebows
        > are commonly fiberglass bows with a leather covering. Dacron and fast-flite
        > didn't exist. The list is endless.
        >       Let's get real here. We are not nor will we ever be "medieval"
        > archers. I know of very few people and groups that are anywhere. Even those that are
        > closest usually are using very light draw weight bows and I have not been
        > terribly impressed wih their shooting ability.
        > We are a society that attempts to come close to the "appearrance" of
        > medieval life.
        > Some may come close, but few, very few do.
        > I never thought that the SCA was about compulsive authenticity. If it ever
        > does go that route, Pennsic could happen in a suburban back yard.
        > -Geoffrei
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: James Koch
        > Sent: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:01:40 -0700
        > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Motivating traditional archery
        >
        > Just out of curiosity, why not ban modern equipment?  We already ban
        > aluminum arrows and compound bows, but we allow modern recurves, which my
        > research tells me were invented in the 1920s.  I used to fight in freon can
        > helmets.  When they were banned I figured good helmets would be few and far
        > between and it would adversely impact heavy fighting.  To my surprise,
        > numerous people began producing excellent helmets.  I understand why
        > recurves were allowed back in the seventies and eighties.  In the seventies
        > compound bows had just been introduced and excellent recurves could be
        > readily found for $5.  Now though traditional equipment and recurves are
        > equally available and equally priced.  So what is the problem with banning
        > recurves, or at least restricting them to practice?  Is it a question of
        > where do we draw the line, or of how do we appease the folks who have
        > invested time and money in a Black Widow?
        > >
        > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)     
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        >
        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
        >
        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • blkknighti@aol.com
        Sorry list! (and Geoffrei) my email to Geoffre was ment to go to him only...off list. Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 28, 2005
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          Sorry list! (and Geoffrei) my email to Geoffre was ment to go to him
          only...off list.
          Richard


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeffrey Webb
          Greetings, Yes Richard is correct. I stated it incorrectly when I said eyeglasses did not exist in SCA period. A more correct statement should have
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 28, 2005
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            Greetings,
            Yes Richard is correct. I stated it incorrectly when I said eyeglasses did not exist in SCA period. A more correct statement should have been:they were extremely rare and usually worn by clerics (those that could read and write). There is a famous painting of El Greco's depicting a member of the church wearing an early form of eyeglasses, they were very heavy thick black framed with cords that looped over the ears. I cannot recall any pictures or references of fighting men (or women) wearing eyeglasses in period.
            My point here is : this is an area in the SCA where we accommodate people utilizing modern implements. (their glasses certainly didn't look anything like what we wear to SCA events)
            We are not a historical re-enactment group, we are a Society of enthusiasts. Our time span is very broad and encompasses many different cultures.
            There has also been chatter on other SCA lists (although a while ago) that people are disturbed by Middle-Eastern, Japanese,Viking, African and Native American personas because these cultures, in the opinions of the list members, did not have contact with the Western European world and average villager(of course they are wrong except for maybe the average European villager part). They wanted the rules to change and make the SCA a narrower time period and more culturally specific.. I got in the middle of that one too.
            Personally, I assume the persona of a 100 years war British archer and I've done a certain amount of research on my garb and tackle.
            I think it's pretty good but there will always be those "know it alls" that will have an unkind thing to say about the accuracy. I am used to it
            I will promote more period tackle to any that express an interest in learning , fletching, cutting self nocks, matching bodkin style points by weight, bow making (including tillering and the very tricky skill of setting horn nocks onto a finished bow).
            I don't use period tools and glues, but I do use period woods. Our glues are far superior and I like my modern tools better.
            If all someone wants to do is improve their shooting skills with their SCA legal but more modern equipment, well that's fine too and I help them with that.
            If they want to learn how to shoot Eastern style with a thumb ring, then I show them what literature that I have on it and direct them to somebody that actually knows how. (I'm knowledgeable and smart enough to know that I don't and can't know everything) :-) I know a bit about crossbows, I've made a few and have played with them a bit too, but when it comes to serious knowledge, I direct people to those that know much more than me.
            I like Acre and I loved being active with Acre my years there. It is a different group with a far more rigid definition of culture and time period.(I guess that could be considered one of its strengths, but it does make it different) I fully understand your sentiments about historical accuracy. The SCA is a lot broader in scope and what some people consider period from one era can change drastically when we go to another.
            Congratulations to you Richard and your Lady for becoming the Crown Prince and Princess of Acre. You are fine people that I like and respect very much and you will be excellent King and Queen. Acre is very lucky. My Lady and I will be pleased and honored to attend your coronation.
            When and where?
            Respectfully,
            -Geoffrei

            -----Original Message-----
            From: blkknighti@...
            Sent: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:40:01 -0700
            To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SCA-Archery] greetings

            Greetings my respected friend Lord Geoffre, I hope this finds you well.
            While I am inspired to write you because of the "period/not-period" thread on
            the SCA archery list I certianly do not wish to debate the merits of your
            posts, for and against. It does seem you are very irratated by the consideration
            of more period equiptment and I am quite suprised by your position and
            reasoning. None the less, your opinion is well respected in these quarters though on
            several points I would disagree. Again, this is not the cause for my writing.
            In fact, my intention is something quite away from that argument. I'm am not
            sure that you know that my Lady Treacaigh and myself prevailed in Acres Crown
            Tournament (in fact noone opposed us ;p ) and are currently Crown Prince and
            Princess. First I would be honoured if you would consider coming to our
            Coronation and acention to the Throne Jan 14 ....and perhaps come back to our
            Kingdom, if not as a member of the populace, visit us at some event(s) with archery
            or teach a class or two at a university and yet still musically or best yet
            simply so that we may enjoy your good company once again.

            Now.... just one thing ....in one of your replies you mentioned "there were
            no eyglasses". I know that you like to be exacting in your
            knowledge.....Actually, there were eyeglasses and quite easily documentable...the following should
            be evidence to sway you. I don't mean this to offend you but I think you'd
            like to be corrected if in error.


            \
            In 1289 in a Florentine manuscript entitled Traite de con uite de la famille,
            Sandra di Popozo wrote: "I am so debilitated by age that without the glasses
            known as spectacles, I would no longer be able to read or write. These have
            recently been invented for the benefit of poor old people whose sight has become
            weak". Years earlier, Friar Roger Bacon wrote a description of lenses to make
            letters bigger in his Opus Majus (1268) - so it's clear that the first
            spectacles were made somewhere between 1268 and 1289.
            More historical evidence for the timeframe is heard in a sermon of a Father
            Giordano of Pisa who in 1306 pronounced, "It is not yet twenty years since the
            art of making spectacles, one of the most useful arts on earth, was
            discovered. I, myself, have seen and conversed with the man who made them first".
            He fails to mention the man's name, of course, but the true identity of who
            first invented spectacles will probably never be known.
            However, we do know that the first artistic depiction of eyeglasses was
            painted by Tommaso da Modena in his 1352 portrait of Hugh of Provence. The
            religious scholar is seen with his glasses studiously perched on his nose. Then, as
            now, the wearing of eyeglasses somehow evoked an air of thoughfulness, and the
            use of spectacles as a subject detail - in both medieval and early Renaissance
            painting - would soon come to symbolize a wealth of education and wisdom.

            In Servbice and with honour,

            In a message dated 10/28/05 10:59:38 AM, jrosswebb1@... writes:


            > Greetings,
            > Why not ban all modern equipment and practices and only use period
            > equipment? Because NOBODY in the SCA would be able to play. Stainless steel did
            > not exist. Helmets in period were often only about 19 or 18 gauge steel.
            > Plastic arrow nocks didn't exist. Port Orford Cedar wasn't used. Turkey feathers
            > weren't used.
            > No one but little children would be shooting bows that drew less than 60#(I
            > believe that even the Medieval woman was stronger). Left handed archers
            > would be thought of as evil and using the "devil's" eye. The distances that we
            > shoot at would be laughably close to the medieval archer.
            > Arrow points were quite different and usually iron, not steel. Full body
            > plate armor for all fightig on the field never happened. Spandex didn't exist.
            > Eyeglasses didn't exist. Steel prod crossbows were rare for most people. No
            > shoes had heels until after Henry VIII. Osage Orange can only be used by
            > people which have a Native American persona.Longbows did not have a static riser,
            > they worked through the entire stave.Recurves were quite common although
            > different than the Martin "Hunter". The very "period looking" Magyar horsebows
            > are commonly fiberglass bows with a leather covering. Dacron and fast-flite
            > didn't exist. The list is endless.
            > Let's get real here. We are not nor will we ever be "medieval"
            > archers. I know of very few people and groups that are anywhere. Even those that are
            > closest usually are using very light draw weight bows and I have not been
            > terribly impressed wih their shooting ability.
            > We are a society that attempts to come close to the "appearrance" of
            > medieval life.
            > Some may come close, but few, very few do.
            > I never thought that the SCA was about compulsive authenticity. If it ever
            > does go that route, Pennsic could happen in a suburban back yard.
            > -Geoffrei
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: James Koch
            > Sent: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:01:40 -0700
            > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Motivating traditional archery
            >
            > Just out of curiosity, why not ban modern equipment? We already ban
            > aluminum arrows and compound bows, but we allow modern recurves, which my
            > research tells me were invented in the 1920s. I used to fight in freon can
            > helmets. When they were banned I figured good helmets would be few and far
            > between and it would adversely impact heavy fighting. To my surprise,
            > numerous people began producing excellent helmets. I understand why
            > recurves were allowed back in the seventies and eighties. In the seventies
            > compound bows had just been introduced and excellent recurves could be
            > readily found for $5. Now though traditional equipment and recurves are
            > equally available and equally priced. So what is the problem with banning
            > recurves, or at least restricting them to practice? Is it a question of
            > where do we draw the line, or of how do we appease the folks who have
            > invested time and money in a Black Widow?
            > >
            > Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)
            >
            >
            >
            > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            >
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            >
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ---8<---------------------------------------------
            Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

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          • Dirk Edward of Frisia
            Greetings! Merry Christmas to you all. At the urging of a member of this list, I have joined up, something I intended to do a while ago. An intro of sorts: I m
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 24, 2008
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              Greetings!

              Merry Christmas to you all.

              At the urging of a member of this list, I have joined up, something I
              intended to do a while ago.

              An intro of sorts: I'm in year 33 of membership in the SCA. I live in
              the Middle Kingdom, am a multi level Marshal including Target archery.

              Looking at the membership file I know there are folks that know me
              here, so I really don't have much more to add at the moment.

              Have a nice holiday- and I'll sit back and read a while.

              Dirk Edward of Frisia
            • John edgerton
              Welcome to the group. Jon ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 24, 2008
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                Welcome to the group.

                Jon

                On Dec 24, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Dirk Edward of Frisia wrote:

                > Greetings!
                >
                > Merry Christmas to you all.
                >
                > At the urging of a member of this list, I have joined up, something I
                > intended to do a while ago.
                >
                > An intro of sorts: I'm in year 33 of membership in the SCA. I live in
                > the Middle Kingdom, am a multi level Marshal including Target archery.
                >
                > Looking at the membership file I know there are folks that know me
                > here, so I really don't have much more to add at the moment.
                >
                > Have a nice holiday- and I'll sit back and read a while.
                >
                > Dirk Edward of Frisia
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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