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Deaf archers was - Disabilities and archery (fwd)

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  • Matthew Legge
    Hello Everyone, Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break. With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any experience
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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      Hello Everyone,

      Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.

      With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any experience
      with other disabilities such as deafness?

      My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned up at
      the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a guess
      on my part) hearing on the other.

      The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
      especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to stand
      behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
      successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.

      We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
      reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in trouble.

      The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
      prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the suprise
      of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the original
      reason for the hold....

      Does anyone have any suggestions?

      Yous in service

      Maidiu Ruadh,
      Aneala
      Lochac
    • Dennis Cooley
      Greetings At a mundane range I worked at we put a Bicycle caution flag on a stand bent over with a trip trigger at a little over half way down range. If where
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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        Greetings
        At a mundane range I worked at we put a Bicycle caution flag on a stand bent
        over with a trip trigger at a little over half way down range. If where was a
        reason to pull the string it would pop up and the archers were taught to watch
        the flag and obey the hold. Even the hearing archers were better at the sight
        of it popping up and were faster to respond. We only pulled it once in the
        last year when an archer dropped an arrow and tried to creep up to retrieve it
        and I caught her. The hardest thing was to teach the Marshals to pull the
        string at the same time as they holler hold.

        John-Paul Bowyer

        Matthew Legge wrote:

        > From: Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
        >
        > Hello Everyone,
        >
        > Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.
        >
        > With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any experience
        > with other disabilities such as deafness?
        >
        > My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned up at
        > the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a guess
        > on my part) hearing on the other.
        >
        > The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
        > especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to stand
        > behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
        > successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
        >
        > We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
        > reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in trouble.
        >
        > The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
        > prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the suprise
        > of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the original
        > reason for the hold....
        >
        > Does anyone have any suggestions?
        >
        > Yous in service
        >
        > Maidiu Ruadh,
        > Aneala
        > Lochac
        >
        > > This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
        > of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
        > [SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
      • AMENSEYA@xxx.xxx
        I would say for my own case that the visual signs are the best because while I read lips, it may not always be possible for me to see the marshal s lips. Lady
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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          I would say for my own case that the visual signs are the best because while
          I read lips, it may not always be possible for me to see the marshal's lips.



          Lady Ayesha of the Flowing Sands
        • GR Auklandus
          ... Actually, yes. Not from experience, but just from thinking about it. Someone with auditory difficulties often uses visual clues/cues more readily. Waving a
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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            --- Matthew Legge <ruadh@...> wrote:
            > My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned up at
            > the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a guess
            > on my part) hearing on the other.
            >
            > The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
            > especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to stand
            > behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
            > successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
            >
            > We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
            > reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in trouble.
            >
            > The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
            > prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the suprise
            > of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the original
            > reason for the hold....
            >
            > Does anyone have any suggestions?
            >
            > Yous in service
            >
            > Maidiu Ruadh,
            > Aneala
            > Lochac
            Actually, yes. Not from experience, but just from thinking about it. Someone with
            auditory difficulties often uses visual clues/cues more readily. Waving a colored flag or
            cloth of a highly visible color might be useful. Since the only thing you are probably
            concerned with is a "hold" situation (she's probably already used to other cues for
            starting, etc), something waved in her sight but not really close to her (which might
            cause the same reaction as touching her) might work.

            Master Griffin McCai
            Rusted Woodlands,
            East
            _________________________________________________________
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          • Karl Sandhoff
            In our mundane shoots we have the rangemaster use cloored lights or flags at the end of the shooting line to signal the status of the line - green to shoot,
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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              In our mundane shoots we have the rangemaster use cloored lights or flags
              at the end of the shooting line to signal the status of the line - green
              to shoot, yellow to warn of the end of shooting time is near (30 sec),
              and red for no shooting. Even though it is out of the direct line of
              sight for most archers, I have never had a situation where an archer was
              not aware of the flags. BTW, to handle left and right handed archers, we
              have flags on both ends of the line for big shoots.
              Carolus von Eulenhorst

              On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:31:56 +0800 Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
              writes:
              >From: Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
              >
              >Hello Everyone,
              >
              >Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.
              >
              >With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any
              >experience
              >with other disabilities such as deafness?
              >
              >My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned
              >up at
              >the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a
              >guess
              >on my part) hearing on the other.
              >
              >The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
              >especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to
              >stand
              >behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
              >successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
              >
              >We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
              >reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in
              >trouble.
              >
              >The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
              >prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the
              >suprise
              >of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the
              >original
              >reason for the hold....
              >
              >Does anyone have any suggestions?
              >
              >Yous in service
              >
              >Maidiu Ruadh,
              >Aneala
              >Lochac
              >
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            • Karl Sandhoff
              Excellent idea. Carolus von Eulenhorst On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 08:23:28 -0600 Dennis Cooley ...
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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                Excellent idea.
                Carolus von Eulenhorst

                On Sat, 25 Dec 1999 08:23:28 -0600 Dennis Cooley <djcool@...>
                writes:
                >From: Dennis Cooley <djcool@...>
                >
                >Greetings
                > At a mundane range I worked at we put a Bicycle caution flag on a
                >stand bent
                >over with a trip trigger at a little over half way down range. If
                >where was a
                >reason to pull the string it would pop up and the archers were taught
                >to watch
                >the flag and obey the hold. Even the hearing archers were better at
                >the sight
                >of it popping up and were faster to respond. We only pulled it once
                >in the
                >last year when an archer dropped an arrow and tried to creep up to
                >retrieve it
                >and I caught her. The hardest thing was to teach the Marshals to pull
                >the
                >string at the same time as they holler hold.
                >
                >John-Paul Bowyer
                >
                >Matthew Legge wrote:
                >
                >> From: Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
                >>
                >> Hello Everyone,
                >>
                >> Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.
                >>
                >> With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any
                >experience
                >> with other disabilities such as deafness?
                >>
                >> My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned
                >up at
                >> the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a
                >guess
                >> on my part) hearing on the other.
                >>
                >> The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
                >> especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to
                >stand
                >> behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
                >> successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
                >>
                >> We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
                >> reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in
                >trouble.
                >>
                >> The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
                >> prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the
                >suprise
                >> of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the
                >original
                >> reason for the hold....
                >>
                >> Does anyone have any suggestions?
                >>
                >> Yous in service
                >>
                >> Maidiu Ruadh,
                >> Aneala
                >> Lochac
                >>
                >> > This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                >> of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
                >> [SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
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              • D Humberson
                Start by asking her what her own preference is, after the issue has been explained? You need a method as reliable as a called hold is for an archer who has
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 25, 1999
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                  Start by asking her what her own preference is, after the issue has been
                  explained? You need a method as reliable as a called hold is for an archer
                  who has normal hearing, your archer may have her own usual set of signals
                  with which she is already familiar.

                  I would suggest practicing 'hold' routinely, both with her and with the
                  whole line. If your archers have gone through a few unexpected holds they
                  will be much less likely to let one go accidentally. IMHO, while you can
                  minimize the startle response, each archer must be responsible for
                  maintaining control at all times. The other good thing unexpected holds do
                  for you as a marshal is give you an idea who you need to watch close if you
                  need to call a real one.

                  As for concrete signals, how about a 'penalty flag' thrown so that it's
                  trajectory falls across the archer's line of vision? American football
                  officials use a yellow handkerchief, weighted with a few shot to make it
                  throw better. BTW, they just found out last week that throwing something
                  like that toward a person is a BAD IDEA. Stand at the shooting line and
                  throw downrange.

                  A pricier solution would involve a signal light at the butt, or possibly a
                  panel of reflective material there which could bounce a light flash. Some
                  commercial pistol ranges do this here, using a red blinker as well as verbal
                  holds.

                  Hope this helps,
                  Ragnar Ketilsson



                  >From: Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
                  >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                  >To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                  >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Deaf archers was - Disabilities and archery (fwd)
                  >Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 21:31:56 +0800
                  >
                  >Hello Everyone,
                  >
                  >Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.
                  >
                  >With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any experience
                  >with other disabilities such as deafness?
                  >
                  >My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned up at
                  >the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a guess
                  >on my part) hearing on the other.
                  >
                  >The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
                  >especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to stand
                  >behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
                  >successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
                  >
                  >We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
                  >reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in trouble.
                  >
                  >The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
                  >prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the suprise
                  >of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the original
                  >reason for the hold....
                  >
                  >Does anyone have any suggestions?
                  >
                  >Yous in service
                  >
                  >Maidiu Ruadh,
                  >Aneala
                  >Lochac
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                  >of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
                  >[SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
                  ><< text3.html >>
                • SwayzeK
                  How about a wrist held (for the bow arm) flasher that could be triggered by a remote held by the Marshal. I would have to think about how to do this, but it
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 27, 1999
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                    How about a wrist held (for the bow arm) flasher that could be triggered by a
                    remote held by the Marshal. I would have to think about how to do this, but it
                    shouldn't be too difficult.

                    Lady Ailinn Shadowfox

                    On Dec 25, 9:31pm, Matthew Legge wrote:
                    > From: Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
                    >
                    > Hello Everyone,
                    >
                    > Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.
                    >
                    > With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any experience
                    > with other disabilities such as deafness?
                    >
                    > My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned up at
                    > the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a guess
                    > on my part) hearing on the other.
                    >
                    > The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
                    > especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to stand
                    > behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
                    > successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
                    >
                    > We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
                    > reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in trouble.
                    >
                    > The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
                    > prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the suprise
                    > of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the original
                    > reason for the hold....
                    >
                    > Does anyone have any suggestions?
                    >
                    > Yous in service
                    >
                    > Maidiu Ruadh,
                    > Aneala
                    > Lochac
                  • Neil Bensen
                    You could have the marshall keep his/her hand on the lady s shoulder. When a hold is called, they could squeeze her shoulder to let her know. That way she
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 27, 1999
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                      You could have the marshall keep his/her hand on the lady's shoulder. When a
                      hold is called, they could squeeze her shoulder to let her know. That way she
                      would have a constant pressure and the increase shouldn't be a suprise.

                      Calum McKay

                      Matthew Legge wrote:

                      > From: Matthew Legge <ruadh@...>
                      >
                      > Hello Everyone,
                      >
                      > Seasons greetings and all that. Hope you are having a good break.
                      >
                      > With respect to the disabled archers thread, has anyone had any experience
                      > with other disabilities such as deafness?
                      >
                      > My own experiences started about a year ago when a young lady turned up at
                      > the shooting line completely deaf on one side and with around 30% (a guess
                      > on my part) hearing on the other.
                      >
                      > The main problem we have had is with spoken commands on the line,
                      > especially cries of hold. The current practice is for a marshal to stand
                      > behind her, on the side of her good ear. This seems to be the most
                      > successful, but sometimes she gets so focussed she does not respond.
                      >
                      > We have not yet had any incidents where a hold was called for safety
                      > reasons; but it may occur and if she doesn't respond we are in trouble.
                      >
                      > The only other option I see, short of having her shoot by herself or
                      > prohibitting her, is for a marshal to actually touch her, but the suprise
                      > of such an interuption when not expected could be worse than the original
                      > reason for the hold....
                      >
                      > Does anyone have any suggestions?
                      >
                      > Yous in service
                      >
                      > Maidiu Ruadh,
                      > Aneala
                      > Lochac
                      >
                      > > This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                      > of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
                      > [SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
                    • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                      ... No. I inrerpret for the deaf community on occasion and may have some insight into their particular outlook on life. Hearing impared ppl dislike being
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 28, 1999
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                        Neil Bensen wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Neil Bensen <neilb@...>
                        >
                        > You could have the marshall keep his/her hand on the lady's shoulder. When a
                        > hold is called, they could squeeze her shoulder to let her know. That way she
                        > would have a constant pressure and the increase shouldn't be a suprise.
                        >
                        > Calum McKay
                        >

                        No.

                        I inrerpret for the deaf community on occasion and may have some insight
                        into their particular outlook on life.

                        Hearing impared ppl dislike being touched to get their attention as it
                        is considered rude to grasp anyone without their permission unless there
                        is a threatening situation where you would grab anyone, hearing impared
                        or not. Hang out with the hearing impared folks for awhile and you will
                        find some of the most intelligent, amusing, and fun filled people you
                        would ever have the pleasure of meeting. When they want to get each
                        other's attention they will stomp their feet on the floor or pound the
                        table top for the vibrations. Others wave their hand in a bye-bye
                        fashion to gain the attention of someone they wish to speak with.

                        Visuals are the best approach for the hearing impared because the signal
                        does not single them out as unique or special or handicapped. You will
                        seldom notice the hearing impared in court because they sit with friends
                        all about the room. There's no reason to call attention to their unique
                        situation so the visual signals would be for all the archers on the
                        line. BTW, it is amazing how much quicker hearing ppl respond to visuals
                        over auditory signals anyway.

                        I really like the Bicycle flag idea. Thanx.

                        Brad
                      • AMENSEYA@xxx.xxx
                        Brad, I think that something has been missed. It seems that the person in question has used some questionable judgment which has put herself and others in
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 28, 1999
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                          Brad,

                          I think that something has been missed. It seems that the person in
                          question has used some questionable judgment which has put herself and others
                          in small amounts of danger ... such as picking up a crossbow, loading it up
                          and then pointing it at someone.

                          I agree that the use of visuals is a good thing. However, I think that
                          the type of visual should be left to the individual marshals. At our event in
                          May, I am going to ask the Marshals to use the thrown flags as well as the
                          verbal cues that we are using now.

                          Yes, I am hearing impaired and would like to see what happens in both
                          ways...


                          Lady Ayesha

                          May your arrows fly straight and hit the golden target
                        • D Humberson
                          Lady Ayesha, Did I miss a post in this thread? The worst I remember was a too-strong focus on the target, which I deal with routinely since I have instinctive
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 28, 1999
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                            Lady Ayesha,

                            Did I miss a post in this thread? The worst I remember was a too-strong
                            focus on the target, which I deal with routinely since I have instinctive
                            shooters on my practice line.

                            Ragnar Ketilsson


                            >From: AMENSEYA@...
                            >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                            >To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                            >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Deaf archers was - Disabilities and archery
                            >(fwd)
                            >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 19:32:24 EST
                            >
                            >Brad,
                            >
                            > I think that something has been missed. It seems that the person in
                            >question has used some questionable judgment which has put herself and
                            >others
                            >in small amounts of danger ... such as picking up a crossbow, loading it up
                            >and then pointing it at someone.
                            >
                            > I agree that the use of visuals is a good thing. However, I think that
                            >the type of visual should be left to the individual marshals. At our event
                            >in
                            >May, I am going to ask the Marshals to use the thrown flags as well as the
                            >verbal cues that we are using now.
                            >
                            > Yes, I am hearing impaired and would like to see what happens in both
                            >ways...
                            >
                            >
                            >Lady Ayesha
                            >
                            >May your arrows fly straight and hit the golden target
                            >
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                            >This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                            >of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
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                            ><< text3.html >>
                          • AMENSEYA@xxx.xxx
                            Sorry Ragnar, I guess that I had been communicating with the person who posted the first message and he told me about this deaf persons behavior. I am sorry
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 29, 1999
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                              Sorry Ragnar,

                              I guess that I had been communicating with the person who posted the first
                              message and he told me about this deaf persons behavior. I am sorry that I
                              just moved in and posted it to the list.

                              Ayesha
                            • D Humberson
                              No problem, Ayesha, I just thought hotmail had dropped the ball again: I have had posts appear days later on this list, and others I knew about only through
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 29, 1999
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                                No problem, Ayesha, I just thought hotmail had dropped the ball again: I
                                have had posts appear days later on this list, and others I knew about only
                                through their inclusion in replies. I've been following the thread with
                                interest, and may well make a version of the bicycle flag for my practice
                                range next year.


                                Ragnar Ketilsson


                                >From: AMENSEYA@...
                                >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                                >To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                                >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Deaf archers was - Disabilities and archery
                                >(fwd)
                                >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:12:01 EST
                                >
                                >Sorry Ragnar,
                                >
                                > I guess that I had been communicating with the person who posted the
                                >first
                                >message and he told me about this deaf persons behavior. I am sorry that I
                                >just moved in and posted it to the list.
                                >
                                >Ayesha
                                >
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