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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Bamboo

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  • Talmon Parker
    TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be English hedge plant. I m not sure that is the right name for it and I don t know how old
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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      TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be
      English hedge plant. I'm not sure that is the right name for it and I don't
      know how old it was , the self nock was cut into this and was bound with
      what looked like linen. It was owned by a chief Red Fox of the ogalla sioux.
      Fletch was turkey feathers. point was flint bird point very small.There
      was just the one.


      Talmon

      DER BARON





      >From: Robert Lauderdale <chidiock@...>
      >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Bamboo
      >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:59:52 -0500
      >
      >At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:
      >
      > > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
      > >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
      > >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
      > >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
      > >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
      > >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
      > >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
      > >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
      > >
      > >Kinjal
      >
      >A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
      >flies better.
      >
      >If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
      >time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
      >http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html
      >
      >Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
      >archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
      >ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
      >actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
      >week and not seen it all.
      >
      >The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
      >several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
      >for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
      >handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
      >and on and on till it makes your head swim.
      >
      >Chidiock
      >
      >
      >---8<---------------------------------------------
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    • jameswolfden
      The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is listed as a bamboo in the
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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        The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
        The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
        listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.

        For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to
        the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
        arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
        claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
        cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)

        James



        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
        > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are
        native to the US
        > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo
        although I'm sure
        > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them
        for such. I have
        > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and
        they are
        > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the
        materials I would need to
        > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.
        > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I
        have
        > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere
        in this house when I
        > moved.)
        > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually
        classified
        > as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed
        Lenape and other
        > local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a
        matter of
        > semantics.
        > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.
        > Richard
      • blkknighti@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@yahoo.ca writes: Absolutely.
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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          In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@... writes:

          << The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. >>

          Absolutely.


          <<The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is

          listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked. >>

          This is true. I was mistaken when I said "I just really don't think what
          they were referring to is actually classified as "bamboo". (snipped). This could
          all be a

          matter of semantics."
          Its not a matter of semantics and James, you are not incorrect. River Reed is
          a bamboo (the only which is native to North America). It is not what I had
          thought it was, being phragmite, which is what the Lenapes used. It also is not
          very common to the Lenape territory which would explain why they would be
          using phragmite. One the other hand Seminoles or other more southern natives would
          very likely have used bamboo. This information is actually pretty cool if you
          think about it.
          A shout out of thanks to my little Lenape friends.....
          Richard


          <<For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to

          the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an

          arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one

          claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river

          cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)


          James >>




          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:

          > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are

          native to the US

          > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo

          although I'm sure

          > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them

          for such. I have

          > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and

          they are

          > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the

          materials I would need to

          > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.

          > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I

          have

          > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere

          in this house when I

          > moved.)

          > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually

          classified as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed

          Lenape and other local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a

          matter of semantics.

          > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.

          > Richard

          >>
        • Carolus Eulenhorst
          Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert areas. The
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
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            Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could
            be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert
            areas. The shafts were cut and dried in bundles, then straightened by
            running them through a groove in a heated rock. Check out Ishii in Two
            Worlds for a description of how to do this ( I think that's the book, my
            anthro books are packed but it was one of the Ishii books I think by
            Kroeber).

            In service to the dream
            Carolus von Eulenhorst
            eulenhorst@...

            On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:35:41 EDT blkknighti@... writes:
            > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
            > Americans
            > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
            > interesting.
            > Richard
            >
            > In a message dated 8/4/03 3:40:18 PM, gusarimagic@...
            > writes:
            >
            > << > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have
            > found
            >
            > that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
            >
            >
            > segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
            >
            >
            > here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
            >
            > However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
            >
            > long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
            >
            > been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
            >
            > shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
            >
            >
            > Kinjal >>

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carolus Eulenhorst
            Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native vegetations.
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
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              Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia
              and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native
              vegetations. We are trying to eliminate it from our waterways now.
              Unfortunately, some landscapers haven't gotten the message and are still
              planting it in people's yards.

              In service to the dream
              Carolus von Eulenhorst
              eulenhorst@...

              On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 04:31:58 -0000 "jameswolfden" <jameswolfden@...>
              writes:
              > The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
              > The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
              > listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.
              >
              > For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane
              > to
              > the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
              > arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
              > claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
              > cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)
              >
              > James

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