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Re: Bamboo

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  • Kinjal of Moravia
    ... Americans ... interesting. ... I had some of the same thoughts, but the people at the displays had no answeres. It looks like segmented bamboo but may be
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
      > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
      Americans
      > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
      interesting.
      > Richard

      > Kinjal >>

      I had some of the same thoughts, but the people at the displays had
      no answeres. It looks like segmented bamboo but may be some type of
      reed. However, as arrows were still used in hunting into the 1890's
      in the west (we are still technically at war with the Washow
      tribes), and many orientals were imported in the 1850's, it may be a
      more 'modern' development. Reed arrows were certainly used by many
      tribes for centuries with segmented tips.
    • Robert Lauderdale
      ... A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow flies better. If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
        At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:

        > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
        >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
        >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
        >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
        >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
        >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
        >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
        >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
        >
        >Kinjal

        A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
        flies better.

        If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
        time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
        http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html

        Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
        archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
        ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
        actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
        week and not seen it all.

        The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
        several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
        for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
        handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
        and on and on till it makes your head swim.

        Chidiock
      • Talmon Parker
        TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be English hedge plant. I m not sure that is the right name for it and I don t know how old
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
          TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be
          English hedge plant. I'm not sure that is the right name for it and I don't
          know how old it was , the self nock was cut into this and was bound with
          what looked like linen. It was owned by a chief Red Fox of the ogalla sioux.
          Fletch was turkey feathers. point was flint bird point very small.There
          was just the one.


          Talmon

          DER BARON





          >From: Robert Lauderdale <chidiock@...>
          >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Bamboo
          >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:59:52 -0500
          >
          >At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:
          >
          > > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
          > >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
          > >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
          > >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
          > >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
          > >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
          > >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
          > >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
          > >
          > >Kinjal
          >
          >A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
          >flies better.
          >
          >If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
          >time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
          >http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html
          >
          >Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
          >archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
          >ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
          >actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
          >week and not seen it all.
          >
          >The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
          >several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
          >for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
          >handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
          >and on and on till it makes your head swim.
          >
          >Chidiock
          >
          >
          >---8<---------------------------------------------
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        • jameswolfden
          The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is listed as a bamboo in the
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
            The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
            The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
            listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.

            For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to
            the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
            arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
            claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
            cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)

            James



            --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
            > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are
            native to the US
            > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo
            although I'm sure
            > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them
            for such. I have
            > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and
            they are
            > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the
            materials I would need to
            > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.
            > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I
            have
            > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere
            in this house when I
            > moved.)
            > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually
            classified
            > as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed
            Lenape and other
            > local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a
            matter of
            > semantics.
            > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.
            > Richard
          • blkknighti@aol.com
            In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@yahoo.ca writes: Absolutely.
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
              In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@... writes:

              << The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. >>

              Absolutely.


              <<The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is

              listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked. >>

              This is true. I was mistaken when I said "I just really don't think what
              they were referring to is actually classified as "bamboo". (snipped). This could
              all be a

              matter of semantics."
              Its not a matter of semantics and James, you are not incorrect. River Reed is
              a bamboo (the only which is native to North America). It is not what I had
              thought it was, being phragmite, which is what the Lenapes used. It also is not
              very common to the Lenape territory which would explain why they would be
              using phragmite. One the other hand Seminoles or other more southern natives would
              very likely have used bamboo. This information is actually pretty cool if you
              think about it.
              A shout out of thanks to my little Lenape friends.....
              Richard


              <<For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to

              the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an

              arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one

              claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river

              cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)


              James >>




              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:

              > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are

              native to the US

              > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo

              although I'm sure

              > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them

              for such. I have

              > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and

              they are

              > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the

              materials I would need to

              > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.

              > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I

              have

              > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere

              in this house when I

              > moved.)

              > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually

              classified as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed

              Lenape and other local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a

              matter of semantics.

              > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.

              > Richard

              >>
            • Carolus Eulenhorst
              Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert areas. The
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
                Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could
                be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert
                areas. The shafts were cut and dried in bundles, then straightened by
                running them through a groove in a heated rock. Check out Ishii in Two
                Worlds for a description of how to do this ( I think that's the book, my
                anthro books are packed but it was one of the Ishii books I think by
                Kroeber).

                In service to the dream
                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                eulenhorst@...

                On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:35:41 EDT blkknighti@... writes:
                > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
                > Americans
                > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
                > interesting.
                > Richard
                >
                > In a message dated 8/4/03 3:40:18 PM, gusarimagic@...
                > writes:
                >
                > << > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have
                > found
                >
                > that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
                >
                >
                > segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
                >
                >
                > here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
                >
                > However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
                >
                > long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
                >
                > been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
                >
                > shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
                >
                >
                > Kinjal >>

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carolus Eulenhorst
                Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native vegetations.
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
                  Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia
                  and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native
                  vegetations. We are trying to eliminate it from our waterways now.
                  Unfortunately, some landscapers haven't gotten the message and are still
                  planting it in people's yards.

                  In service to the dream
                  Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  eulenhorst@...

                  On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 04:31:58 -0000 "jameswolfden" <jameswolfden@...>
                  writes:
                  > The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
                  > The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
                  > listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.
                  >
                  > For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane
                  > to
                  > the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
                  > arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
                  > claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
                  > cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)
                  >
                  > James

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