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Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Bamboo

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  • blkknighti@aol.com
    Ok, bamboo is a grass, and the phragmite reeds that are native to the US are considered grass but I don t think that they are bamboo although I m sure that
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
      Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are native to the US
      are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo although I'm sure
      that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them for such. I have
      had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and they are
      constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the materials I would need to
      make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.
      I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I have
      collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere in this house when I
      moved.)
      I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually classified
      as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed Lenape and other
      local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a matter of
      semantics.
      I'll try to persue this further when I get back.
      Richard
      In a message dated 8/4/03 5:33:11 PM, jameswolfden@... writes:

      << I am not sure whether Kinjal is referring to the same thing but I

      believe river cane is considered to be a bamboo and it is native

      to North America. It was used by Eastern Woodland nations

      according to The Bowyer's Bible. There are supposed to be two

      other species of bamboo native to North America.


      James Wolfden >>
    • Kinjal of Moravia
      ... Americans ... interesting. ... I had some of the same thoughts, but the people at the displays had no answeres. It looks like segmented bamboo but may be
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
        > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
        Americans
        > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
        interesting.
        > Richard

        > Kinjal >>

        I had some of the same thoughts, but the people at the displays had
        no answeres. It looks like segmented bamboo but may be some type of
        reed. However, as arrows were still used in hunting into the 1890's
        in the west (we are still technically at war with the Washow
        tribes), and many orientals were imported in the 1850's, it may be a
        more 'modern' development. Reed arrows were certainly used by many
        tribes for centuries with segmented tips.
      • Robert Lauderdale
        ... A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow flies better. If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
          At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:

          > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
          >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
          >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
          >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
          >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
          >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
          >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
          >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
          >
          >Kinjal

          A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
          flies better.

          If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
          time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
          http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html

          Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
          archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
          ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
          actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
          week and not seen it all.

          The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
          several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
          for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
          handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
          and on and on till it makes your head swim.

          Chidiock
        • Talmon Parker
          TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be English hedge plant. I m not sure that is the right name for it and I don t know how old
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
            TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be
            English hedge plant. I'm not sure that is the right name for it and I don't
            know how old it was , the self nock was cut into this and was bound with
            what looked like linen. It was owned by a chief Red Fox of the ogalla sioux.
            Fletch was turkey feathers. point was flint bird point very small.There
            was just the one.


            Talmon

            DER BARON





            >From: Robert Lauderdale <chidiock@...>
            >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Bamboo
            >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:59:52 -0500
            >
            >At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:
            >
            > > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
            > >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
            > >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
            > >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
            > >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
            > >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
            > >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
            > >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
            > >
            > >Kinjal
            >
            >A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
            >flies better.
            >
            >If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
            >time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
            >http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html
            >
            >Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
            >archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
            >ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
            >actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
            >week and not seen it all.
            >
            >The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
            >several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
            >for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
            >handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
            >and on and on till it makes your head swim.
            >
            >Chidiock
            >
            >
            >---8<---------------------------------------------
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          • jameswolfden
            The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is listed as a bamboo in the
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
              The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
              The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
              listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.

              For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to
              the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
              arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
              claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
              cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)

              James



              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
              > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are
              native to the US
              > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo
              although I'm sure
              > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them
              for such. I have
              > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and
              they are
              > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the
              materials I would need to
              > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.
              > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I
              have
              > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere
              in this house when I
              > moved.)
              > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually
              classified
              > as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed
              Lenape and other
              > local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a
              matter of
              > semantics.
              > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.
              > Richard
            • blkknighti@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@yahoo.ca writes: Absolutely.
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
                In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@... writes:

                << The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. >>

                Absolutely.


                <<The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is

                listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked. >>

                This is true. I was mistaken when I said "I just really don't think what
                they were referring to is actually classified as "bamboo". (snipped). This could
                all be a

                matter of semantics."
                Its not a matter of semantics and James, you are not incorrect. River Reed is
                a bamboo (the only which is native to North America). It is not what I had
                thought it was, being phragmite, which is what the Lenapes used. It also is not
                very common to the Lenape territory which would explain why they would be
                using phragmite. One the other hand Seminoles or other more southern natives would
                very likely have used bamboo. This information is actually pretty cool if you
                think about it.
                A shout out of thanks to my little Lenape friends.....
                Richard


                <<For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to

                the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an

                arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one

                claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river

                cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)


                James >>




                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:

                > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are

                native to the US

                > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo

                although I'm sure

                > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them

                for such. I have

                > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and

                they are

                > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the

                materials I would need to

                > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.

                > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I

                have

                > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere

                in this house when I

                > moved.)

                > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually

                classified as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed

                Lenape and other local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a

                matter of semantics.

                > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.

                > Richard

                >>
              • Carolus Eulenhorst
                Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert areas. The
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
                  Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could
                  be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert
                  areas. The shafts were cut and dried in bundles, then straightened by
                  running them through a groove in a heated rock. Check out Ishii in Two
                  Worlds for a description of how to do this ( I think that's the book, my
                  anthro books are packed but it was one of the Ishii books I think by
                  Kroeber).

                  In service to the dream
                  Carolus von Eulenhorst
                  eulenhorst@...

                  On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:35:41 EDT blkknighti@... writes:
                  > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
                  > Americans
                  > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
                  > interesting.
                  > Richard
                  >
                  > In a message dated 8/4/03 3:40:18 PM, gusarimagic@...
                  > writes:
                  >
                  > << > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have
                  > found
                  >
                  > that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
                  >
                  >
                  > segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
                  >
                  >
                  > here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
                  >
                  > However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
                  >
                  > long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
                  >
                  > been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
                  >
                  > shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
                  >
                  >
                  > Kinjal >>

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Carolus Eulenhorst
                  Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native vegetations.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
                    Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia
                    and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native
                    vegetations. We are trying to eliminate it from our waterways now.
                    Unfortunately, some landscapers haven't gotten the message and are still
                    planting it in people's yards.

                    In service to the dream
                    Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    eulenhorst@...

                    On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 04:31:58 -0000 "jameswolfden" <jameswolfden@...>
                    writes:
                    > The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
                    > The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
                    > listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.
                    >
                    > For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane
                    > to
                    > the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
                    > arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
                    > claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
                    > cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)
                    >
                    > James

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