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Re: Bamboo

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  • jameswolfden
    ... Native Americans ... interesting. ... I am not sure whether Kinjal is referring to the same thing but I believe river cane is considered to be a bamboo and
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
      > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that
      Native Americans
      > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
      interesting.
      > Richard

      I am not sure whether Kinjal is referring to the same thing but I
      believe river cane is considered to be a bamboo and it is native
      to North America. It was used by Eastern Woodland nations
      according to The Bowyer's Bible. There are supposed to be two
      other species of bamboo native to North America.

      James Wolfden
    • blkknighti@aol.com
      Ok, bamboo is a grass, and the phragmite reeds that are native to the US are considered grass but I don t think that they are bamboo although I m sure that
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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        Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are native to the US
        are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo although I'm sure
        that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them for such. I have
        had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and they are
        constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the materials I would need to
        make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.
        I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I have
        collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere in this house when I
        moved.)
        I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually classified
        as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed Lenape and other
        local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a matter of
        semantics.
        I'll try to persue this further when I get back.
        Richard
        In a message dated 8/4/03 5:33:11 PM, jameswolfden@... writes:

        << I am not sure whether Kinjal is referring to the same thing but I

        believe river cane is considered to be a bamboo and it is native

        to North America. It was used by Eastern Woodland nations

        according to The Bowyer's Bible. There are supposed to be two

        other species of bamboo native to North America.


        James Wolfden >>
      • Kinjal of Moravia
        ... Americans ... interesting. ... I had some of the same thoughts, but the people at the displays had no answeres. It looks like segmented bamboo but may be
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
          > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
          Americans
          > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
          interesting.
          > Richard

          > Kinjal >>

          I had some of the same thoughts, but the people at the displays had
          no answeres. It looks like segmented bamboo but may be some type of
          reed. However, as arrows were still used in hunting into the 1890's
          in the west (we are still technically at war with the Washow
          tribes), and many orientals were imported in the 1850's, it may be a
          more 'modern' development. Reed arrows were certainly used by many
          tribes for centuries with segmented tips.
        • Robert Lauderdale
          ... A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow flies better. If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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            At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:

            > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
            >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
            >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
            >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
            >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
            >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
            >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
            >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
            >
            >Kinjal

            A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
            flies better.

            If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
            time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
            http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html

            Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
            archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
            ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
            actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
            week and not seen it all.

            The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
            several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
            for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
            handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
            and on and on till it makes your head swim.

            Chidiock
          • Talmon Parker
            TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be English hedge plant. I m not sure that is the right name for it and I don t know how old
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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              TalmonThe only one I have exaimaned had a piece of what was said to be
              English hedge plant. I'm not sure that is the right name for it and I don't
              know how old it was , the self nock was cut into this and was bound with
              what looked like linen. It was owned by a chief Red Fox of the ogalla sioux.
              Fletch was turkey feathers. point was flint bird point very small.There
              was just the one.


              Talmon

              DER BARON





              >From: Robert Lauderdale <chidiock@...>
              >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Bamboo
              >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:59:52 -0500
              >
              >At 07:37 PM 8/4/03 +0000, you wrote:
              >
              > > > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have found
              > >that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
              > >segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
              > >here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
              > >However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
              > >long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
              > >been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
              > >shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
              > >
              > >Kinjal
              >
              >A footed arrow makes the foreshaft heavier and as a consequence the arrow
              >flies better.
              >
              >If you are ever anywhere near Columbia Missouri it will be well worth your
              >time to arrange a tour of the Grayson archery collection,
              >http://coas.missouri.edu/anthromuseum/grayson/grayson.html
              >
              >Dr Grayson, now in his 90s and still sharp, has been a collector and
              >archery pioneer for over 70 years. I had the privelge a couple of months
              >ago of having him take me in and allow me to wander through the shelves and
              >actually handle the items. I spent three hours there--I could have spent a
              >week and not seen it all.
              >
              >The collection has example of native American arrows made from cane, a
              >several thousand year old section of antler that some ancient bower had cut
              >for making a stave, African arrows with the poison still on them (careful
              >handling those!) and Japanese and Chinese and Persian and Native American
              >and on and on till it makes your head swim.
              >
              >Chidiock
              >
              >
              >---8<---------------------------------------------
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            • jameswolfden
              The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is listed as a bamboo in the
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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                The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
                The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
                listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.

                For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to
                the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
                arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
                claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
                cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)

                James



                --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:
                > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are
                native to the US
                > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo
                although I'm sure
                > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them
                for such. I have
                > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and
                they are
                > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the
                materials I would need to
                > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.
                > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I
                have
                > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere
                in this house when I
                > moved.)
                > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually
                classified
                > as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed
                Lenape and other
                > local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a
                matter of
                > semantics.
                > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.
                > Richard
              • blkknighti@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@yahoo.ca writes: Absolutely.
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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                  In a message dated 8/5/03 12:32:45 AM, jameswolfden@... writes:

                  << The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things. >>

                  Absolutely.


                  <<The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is

                  listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked. >>

                  This is true. I was mistaken when I said "I just really don't think what
                  they were referring to is actually classified as "bamboo". (snipped). This could
                  all be a

                  matter of semantics."
                  Its not a matter of semantics and James, you are not incorrect. River Reed is
                  a bamboo (the only which is native to North America). It is not what I had
                  thought it was, being phragmite, which is what the Lenapes used. It also is not
                  very common to the Lenape territory which would explain why they would be
                  using phragmite. One the other hand Seminoles or other more southern natives would
                  very likely have used bamboo. This information is actually pretty cool if you
                  think about it.
                  A shout out of thanks to my little Lenape friends.....
                  Richard


                  <<For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane to

                  the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an

                  arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one

                  claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river

                  cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)


                  James >>




                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, blkknighti@a... wrote:

                  > Ok, bamboo is a "grass," and the phragmite reeds that are

                  native to the US

                  > are considered "grass" but I don't think that they are bamboo

                  although I'm sure

                  > that the authors of the Boyars bible could have mistaken them

                  for such. I have

                  > had the luxury of closely inspecting artifact Lenape arrows and

                  they are

                  > constructed of phragmite reed. I also have collected the

                  materials I would need to

                  > make replica arrows but haven't gotten around to it.

                  > I am getting ready for Pensic so I don't have time right now but I

                  have

                  > collected some info on these arrows (it got buried somewhere

                  in this house when I

                  > moved.)

                  > I just really don't think what they were referring to is actually

                  classified as "bamboo". I'm not a botanist although I know that the reed

                  Lenape and other local tribes used were phragmite reed. This could all be a

                  matter of semantics.

                  > I'll try to persue this further when I get back.

                  > Richard

                  >>
                • Carolus Eulenhorst
                  Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert areas. The
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
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                    Native American shafts were usually cane, not bamboo per se. This could
                    be harvested from most wetlands, even transient ones found in desert
                    areas. The shafts were cut and dried in bundles, then straightened by
                    running them through a groove in a heated rock. Check out Ishii in Two
                    Worlds for a description of how to do this ( I think that's the book, my
                    anthro books are packed but it was one of the Ishii books I think by
                    Kroeber).

                    In service to the dream
                    Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    eulenhorst@...

                    On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:35:41 EDT blkknighti@... writes:
                    > Just wondering ...where does the bamboo grow in the US that Native
                    > Americans
                    > used? My wife is Lanape and never heard of this. It sound
                    > interesting.
                    > Richard
                    >
                    > In a message dated 8/4/03 3:40:18 PM, gusarimagic@...
                    > writes:
                    >
                    > << > I have been examining Native American bamboo arrows and have
                    > found
                    >
                    > that the last 8-10" of the shaft is of hardwood, but not a removable
                    >
                    >
                    > segment as used in some tribes. Perhaps the strength and smoothness
                    >
                    >
                    > here serves some purpose in controlling breakage or flight.
                    >
                    > However, few of the lowland trees and shrubs would have provided
                    >
                    > long, straight shafts so the bonding of the two materials may have
                    >
                    > been from necessity. May be worth a try if you can only find
                    >
                    > shorter pieces of straight bamboo.
                    >
                    >
                    > Kinjal >>

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Carolus Eulenhorst
                    Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native vegetations.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 5, 2003
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                      Arundinaria resemble bamboo but are not. It is an import from SE Asia
                      and is a major problem here in California as it is choking out the native
                      vegetations. We are trying to eliminate it from our waterways now.
                      Unfortunately, some landscapers haven't gotten the message and are still
                      planting it in people's yards.

                      In service to the dream
                      Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      eulenhorst@...

                      On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 04:31:58 -0000 "jameswolfden" <jameswolfden@...>
                      writes:
                      > The phragmite reed and the river cane are two different things.
                      > The river cane is also known as Arundinaria gigantea and this is
                      > listed as a bamboo in the sites that I have checked.
                      >
                      > For the record, the Bowyer's bible only refers to it as river cane
                      > to
                      > the best of my knowledge. They do also refer to phragmite as an
                      > arrow material but not in the same location. I was the one
                      > claiming river cane was bamboo. (So if I am wrong about river
                      > cane being a bamboo, its my fault not theirs.)
                      >
                      > James

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