Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Period Crossbow Tips

Expand Messages
  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
    I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass prods which are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on the tips to
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass prods which
      are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on the tips
      to protect the string from damage like we do today.

      James Cunningham
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "williamcrossbow" <williamcrossbow@...>
      To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:24 PM
      Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Period Crossbow Tips


      > > What do they look like?
      >
      > Don't know anybody else that shoots xbow and was hoping that somebody
      > could tell me more.
      >
      > Will
      >
      >
      > ---8<---------------------------------------------
      > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
      > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
      >
      > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • badger5149@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian cherry, I have never seen
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
        cunning@... writes:

        > I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass prods
        > which
        > are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on the tips
        > to protect the string from damage like we do today.
        >
        > James Cunningham
        >

        Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian cherry, I
        have never seen one before up close and have no real idea what they should be
        set at. My first attempt last sunday was from ipe, my goal was 300# at 12" and
        about 150# @ a 3" brace height, was wondering if these are reasonable figures
        to work with. I was pretty much on target but raised a splinter at full draw
        which would soon fail so i am starting over. I am thinking about going to a
        composite or possibly stacked tapered leaf design. Has anyone used this to your
        knowledge? I was considering shark cartilage as a possible cushion between
        layers that might allow me to draw 16", but this all just theory. Badger


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carolus Eulenhorst
        Period crossbows tended to draw 8 -12 with a heavy stack. Selfbow prods seemed to be replaced by composite early on though these could have been laminated
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Period crossbows tended to draw 8"-12" with a heavy stack. Selfbow prods
          seemed to be replaced by composite early on though these could have been
          laminated wood. I wouldn't worry over much about cushioning between the
          layers, just glue them. Hope to meet you on the 17th.

          In service to the dream
          Carolus von Eulenhorst
          eulenhorst@...

          On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:53:52 EDT badger5149@... writes:
          > In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
          > cunning@... writes:
          >
          > > I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass
          > prods
          > > which
          > > are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on
          > the tips
          > > to protect the string from damage like we do today.
          > >
          > > James Cunningham
          > >
          >
          > Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian
          > cherry, I
          > have never seen one before up close and have no real idea what they
          > should be
          > set at. My first attempt last sunday was from ipe, my goal was 300#
          > at 12" and
          > about 150# @ a 3" brace height, was wondering if these are
          > reasonable figures
          > to work with. I was pretty much on target but raised a splinter at
          > full draw
          > which would soon fail so i am starting over. I am thinking about
          > going to a
          > composite or possibly stacked tapered leaf design. Has anyone used
          > this to your
          > knowledge? I was considering shark cartilage as a possible cushion
          > between
          > layers that might allow me to draw 16", but this all just theory.
          > Badger

          ________________________________________________________________
          The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
          Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
          Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
          If the back is starting to pull up have you tried backing with rawhide? You may be able to save the prod. What is ipe? 300# at 12 and 150# at 3 is no
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            If the back is starting to pull up have you tried backing with rawhide? You
            may be able to save the prod. What is ipe? 300# at 12" and 150# at 3" is
            no problem if the prod is 4 feet long. but a more normal 28-30 inches the
            prod should be of steel or composite. Composite should work as long as the
            total draw is 8-10 inches from a 3-4 inch brace height, but again how long
            is the prod? Stacked leaf will work but is less efficient any padding makes
            it even less efficient...because as the total mass of the prod increases
            more of the total energy stored in the prod is required to get it (and the
            bolt) up to speed .

            What is the lenth of the prod? What is the design? ie flat bow, "D" section
            etc. What are you going to use the bow for? Even in period hunting bows
            were a lower poundage pull than war crossbows.

            James Cunningham

            > Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian cherry,
            I
            > have never seen one before up close and have no real idea what they should
            be
            > set at. My first attempt last sunday was from ipe, my goal was 300# at 12"
            and
            > about 150# @ a 3" brace height, was wondering if these are reasonable
            figures
            > to work with. I was pretty much on target but raised a splinter at full
            draw
            > which would soon fail so i am starting over. I am thinking about going to
            a
            > composite or possibly stacked tapered leaf design. Has anyone used this to
            your
            > knowledge? I was considering shark cartilage as a possible cushion between
            > layers that might allow me to draw 16", but this all just theory. Badger
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ---8<---------------------------------------------
            > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
            > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
            >
            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • badger5149@aol.com
            In a message dated 7/30/2003 7:26:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Prod length was 32 , design was between a d section and flat bow. Was going to use it for
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 7/30/2003 7:26:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
              cunning@... writes:

              > What is the lenth of the prod? What is the design? ie flat bow, "D"
              > section
              > etc. What are you going to use the bow for? Even in period hunting bows
              > were a lower poundage pull than war crossbows.
              >

              Prod length was 32", design was between a "d" section and flat bow. Was going
              to use it for an indoor target shooter at less than 25 yards. Ipe is a very
              hard brazilian hardwood, has several names including ironwood. The brazilian
              cherry I am going to try next is also known as locust, has a higher flexural
              modulas rating and may work. I would like to do a composite but have never tried
              that except with fiberglass and other modern materials. Would a 12" draw
              length put the arrow speed in the category of a 50 or 60# long bow? badger


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Godwin@rmci.net
              ... Will, Go here: http://www.archery-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/ArrowHeads.shtml Bottom of the page, on the right hand side. I ve dealt with Tom before, he s a
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                > Message: 1
                > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:16:12 -0000
                > From: "williamcrossbow" <williamcrossbow@...>
                > Subject: Period Crossbow Tips
                >
                > Can anybody tell me where I can purchase period crossbow tips?
                >
                > Will

                Will,

                Go here:

                http://www.archery-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/ArrowHeads.shtml

                Bottom of the page, on the right hand side.

                I've dealt with Tom before, he's a good chap.

                I also have pictures that "I" took of a period bolt tip. If you would like
                those, I can either send them to your personal e-mail, or if someone else
                wants, I can post them to the photos section of the groups area.

                We were lucky enough here to have someone donate their medieval weapon
                collection to the historical museum, and because of our connections with
                the museum, they asked us to come in and tour the collection....complete
                with white gloves to actually handle all the artifacts. It was hard to
                keep the drool off the stuff ;)

                Godwin
              • williamcrossbow
                Thx. Maybe get to meet you this evening. Will
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thx. Maybe get to meet you this evening.

                  Will
                • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                  12 of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow 12 of draw at 70lb will shoot like a 30# longbow...Can you say rainbow bolts. You need to find a tight
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    12" of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow
                    12" of draw at 70lb will shoot like a 30# longbow...Can you say rainbow
                    bolts.
                    You need to find a tight grain wood that does not have cracks for bothe the
                    pod and stock. We could not find either in Brisban and had to settle for
                    somethink less perfect.

                    James Cunningham

                    >
                    >
                    > Prod length was 32", design was between a "d" section and flat bow. Was
                    going
                    > to use it for an indoor target shooter at less than 25 yards. Ipe is a
                    very
                    > hard brazilian hardwood, has several names including ironwood. The
                    brazilian
                    > cherry I am going to try next is also known as locust, has a higher
                    flexural
                    > modulas rating and may work. I would like to do a composite but have never
                    tried
                    > that except with fiberglass and other modern materials. Would a 12" draw
                    > length put the arrow speed in the category of a 50 or 60# long bow?
                    badger
                  • badger5149@aol.com
                    In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:32:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... I am not real familiar with the crossbow terms, so I am assuming the prod is the bow
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:32:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                      cunning@... writes:

                      > 12" of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow
                      >

                      I am not real familiar with the crossbow terms, so I am assuming the prod is
                      the bow section of the crossbow. Anyway, I finished the cherry prod today and
                      decided to put a protective glass back on it. In my press I can bend the limbs
                      back 6" at 230#. I made a little model piece for the sake of calculating the
                      draw length and I think this will give me about 12" . Now i have to figure out
                      how i am going to mount it to the stock. I was going to glue it and run a
                      bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it. My release is a
                      pair of cams on both sides of the arrow that just lifts it off of a notch in the
                      wood, I havent tried it under any real pressure yet. Anyway, still at the
                      drawing board. made this one 30" long. Badger


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Carolus Eulenhorst
                      NO, NO, NO!!!! Do not glue or drill the prod. The first will cause undue stress and the second will weaken the prod and make it liable to breakage. Cut a
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        NO, NO, NO!!!! Do not glue or drill the prod. The first will cause
                        undue stress and the second will weaken the prod and make it liable to
                        breakage. Cut a notch in the front of the tiller about 5 degrees from
                        vertical so the tips of the prod are lifted. Drill a 1" or 1.25" hole in
                        the tiller leaving about 4" of wood back of the notch. Put a thin piece
                        of leather on each side of the prod and center it in the notch. Put a
                        half round block of wood the width of the prod with a groove cut in each
                        end over it (it should extend about 0.75" past the tiller on each side.
                        Take about 30 feet of cord (waxed linen, jute, or artificial sinew will
                        work) and center it in the hole. Run each end over the block, back to
                        the hole and pass both ends through the hole. Repeat, putting an
                        overhand knot in the cord as it passes through the hole about every tenth
                        time. Continue this maintaining tension until you nearly run out of cord
                        and then tie it off through the hole with a double square knot. Then
                        take about 12 feet of cord and thread it behind the cords on one side of
                        the tiller, centering it and pulling it as close to the hole as you can
                        get. Wrap the cord around the two bundles of cord and pull them
                        together. Continue to wrap until you nearly run out of cord or reach the
                        prod and tie it off as you did the first cord. Repeat on the other side.
                        These cords will put tension on the binding and lock in the prod which
                        should already be pretty tight from the tension you put on the first
                        cord. This will hold the prod securely but allow the flexibility to let
                        it work properly. Be aware most, if not all your local public ranges do
                        not allow crossbows and most local jurisdictions here classify them as
                        firearms.

                        In service to the dream
                        Carolus von Eulenhorst
                        eulenhorst@...

                        On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:13:04 EDT badger5149@... writes:
                        > In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:32:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                        > cunning@... writes:
                        >
                        > > 12" of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow
                        > >
                        >
                        > I am not real familiar with the crossbow terms, so I am assuming the
                        > prod is
                        > the bow section of the crossbow. Anyway, I finished the cherry prod
                        > today and
                        > decided to put a protective glass back on it. In my press I can bend
                        > the limbs
                        > back 6" at 230#. I made a little model piece for the sake of
                        > calculating the
                        > draw length and I think this will give me about 12" . Now i have to
                        > figure out
                        > how i am going to mount it to the stock. I was going to glue it and
                        > run a
                        > bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it. My
                        > release is a
                        > pair of cams on both sides of the arrow that just lifts it off of a
                        > notch in the
                        > wood, I havent tried it under any real pressure yet. Anyway, still
                        > at the
                        > drawing board. made this one 30" long. Badger

                        ________________________________________________________________
                        The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                        Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                        Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                      • badger5149@aol.com
                        In a message dated 7/31/2003 12:06:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Thanks, this was very helpful! Badger [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a message dated 7/31/2003 12:06:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                          eulenhorst@... writes:

                          > NO, NO, NO!!!! Do not glue or drill the prod.

                          Thanks, this was very helpful! Badger


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                          I was going to glue it and run a ... Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will crack and break even under a piece of metal. James
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I was going to glue it and run a
                            > bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it.

                            Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will crack and
                            break even under a piece of metal.

                            James Cunningham
                          • badger5149@aol.com
                            In a message dated 7/31/2003 11:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... I used the slot method with leather seemed to work good, I went ahead and tillered into the
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In a message dated 7/31/2003 11:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                              cunning@... writes:

                              > I was going to glue it and run a
                              > >bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it.
                              >
                              > Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will crack and
                              > break even under a piece of metal.
                              >
                              > James Cunningham
                              >
                              >

                              I used the slot method with leather seemed to work good, I went ahead and
                              tillered into the 21/2"mounting area to allow that to work also, feels a lot
                              better still has plenty of draw strength, waiting for nocks to dry so i can string
                              it up and try it tomorrow. I think this bow will end up kind of a model
                              prototype for the next one as everything is experimental. How do most cock the bow?
                              I will be using a cocking stick for the time being, till I perfect some kind
                              of lever. The string will be sliding across the top of the stock so I am
                              making an arrow slot that puts the string level with nock height, Is this normal?
                              Badger


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Carolus Eulenhorst
                              The string should just clear the table of the bow (top of tiller) but your idea of an bolt groove is one of the common ways of guiding the bolt. Make sure it
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                The string should just clear the table of the bow (top of tiller) but
                                your idea of an bolt groove is one of the common ways of guiding the
                                bolt. Make sure it is centered in the tiller and the center of the bolt
                                rests against the center of the string. The other is a grooved block at
                                the end of the tiller. In your case it is the best option. I'll bring
                                my xbows to practice on the 17th though we can't shoot them.

                                In service to the dream
                                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                eulenhorst@...

                                On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:51:39 EDT badger5149@... writes:
                                > In a message dated 7/31/2003 11:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                                > cunning@... writes:
                                >
                                > > I was going to glue it and run a
                                > > >bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it.
                                > >
                                > > Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will
                                > crack and
                                > > break even under a piece of metal.
                                > >
                                > > James Cunningham
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > I used the slot method with leather seemed to work good, I went
                                > ahead and
                                > tillered into the 21/2"mounting area to allow that to work also,
                                > feels a lot
                                > better still has plenty of draw strength, waiting for nocks to dry
                                > so i can string
                                > it up and try it tomorrow. I think this bow will end up kind of a
                                > model
                                > prototype for the next one as everything is experimental. How do
                                > most cock the bow?
                                > I will be using a cocking stick for the time being, till I perfect
                                > some kind
                                > of lever. The string will be sliding across the top of the stock so
                                > I am
                                > making an arrow slot that puts the string level with nock height, Is
                                > this normal?
                                > Badger

                                ________________________________________________________________
                                The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                                Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                                Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                              • badger5149@aol.com
                                In a message dated 7/31/2003 2:57:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... That would be great, my trigger idea was a no go! too much pressure, I found a good sight
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  In a message dated 7/31/2003 2:57:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                  eulenhorst@... writes:

                                  > The other is a grooved block at
                                  > the end of the tiller. In your case it is the best option. I'll bring
                                  > my xbows to practice on the 17th though we can't shoot them.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  That would be great, my trigger idea was a no go! too much pressure, I found
                                  a good sight that shows trigger plans, I hate it when I can't reinvent the
                                  wheel myself, LOL.
                                  Steve


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.