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Period Crossbow Tips

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  • williamcrossbow
    Can anybody tell me where I can purchase period crossbow tips? Will
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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      Can anybody tell me where I can purchase period crossbow tips?

      Will
    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
      What do they look like? James Cunningham ... From: williamcrossbow To: Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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        What do they look like?

        James Cunningham
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "williamcrossbow" <williamcrossbow@...>
        To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:16 AM
        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Period Crossbow Tips


        > Can anybody tell me where I can purchase period crossbow tips?
        >
        > Will
        >
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
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      • williamcrossbow
        ... Don t know anybody else that shoots xbow and was hoping that somebody could tell me more. Will
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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          > What do they look like?

          Don't know anybody else that shoots xbow and was hoping that somebody
          could tell me more.

          Will
        • Carl West
          ... Tip s? Points for the bolts? Things to go on the ends of the prod (bow)? Hints for using period crossbows? Period hints for using crossbows? English can
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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            >>> Can anybody tell me where I can purchase period crossbow tips?
            >
            > > What do they look like?
            >
            > Don't know anybody else that shoots xbow and was hoping that somebody
            > could tell me more.

            'Tip's?
            Points for the bolts?
            Things to go on the ends of the prod (bow)?
            Hints for using period crossbows?
            Period hints for using crossbows?

            English can be _so_ ambiguous. Especially after Commedia practice. ;)



            If you try to 'reply' to me without fixing the dot, your reply
            will go into a 'special' mailbox reserved for spam. See below.


            --
            Carl West carlDOTwest@... http://carl.west.home.comcast.net

            >>>>>>>> change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me <<<<<<<<<<<<

            Please update your address books with my new, correct address.
          • Robert Lauderdale
            ... There is a period tip from Germany for sale for $39 at http://www.hotlinecy.com/ancient.htm (item E-003). See also item E-002. Chidiock
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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              At 03:24 AM 7/30/03 +0000, you wrote:
              > > What do they look like?
              >
              >Don't know anybody else that shoots xbow and was hoping that somebody
              >could tell me more.
              >
              >Will

              There is a period tip from Germany for sale for $39 at
              http://www.hotlinecy.com/ancient.htm
              (item E-003). See also item E-002.

              Chidiock
            • James W. Pratt, Jr.
              I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass prods which are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on the tips to
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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                I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass prods which
                are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on the tips
                to protect the string from damage like we do today.

                James Cunningham
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "williamcrossbow" <williamcrossbow@...>
                To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:24 PM
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Period Crossbow Tips


                > > What do they look like?
                >
                > Don't know anybody else that shoots xbow and was hoping that somebody
                > could tell me more.
                >
                > Will
                >
                >
                > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                >
                > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • badger5149@aol.com
                In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian cherry, I have never seen
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 29, 2003
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                  In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                  cunning@... writes:

                  > I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass prods
                  > which
                  > are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on the tips
                  > to protect the string from damage like we do today.
                  >
                  > James Cunningham
                  >

                  Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian cherry, I
                  have never seen one before up close and have no real idea what they should be
                  set at. My first attempt last sunday was from ipe, my goal was 300# at 12" and
                  about 150# @ a 3" brace height, was wondering if these are reasonable figures
                  to work with. I was pretty much on target but raised a splinter at full draw
                  which would soon fail so i am starting over. I am thinking about going to a
                  composite or possibly stacked tapered leaf design. Has anyone used this to your
                  knowledge? I was considering shark cartilage as a possible cushion between
                  layers that might allow me to draw 16", but this all just theory. Badger


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Carolus Eulenhorst
                  Period crossbows tended to draw 8 -12 with a heavy stack. Selfbow prods seemed to be replaced by composite early on though these could have been laminated
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                    Period crossbows tended to draw 8"-12" with a heavy stack. Selfbow prods
                    seemed to be replaced by composite early on though these could have been
                    laminated wood. I wouldn't worry over much about cushioning between the
                    layers, just glue them. Hope to meet you on the 17th.

                    In service to the dream
                    Carolus von Eulenhorst
                    eulenhorst@...

                    On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:53:52 EDT badger5149@... writes:
                    > In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:21:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                    > cunning@... writes:
                    >
                    > > I make crossbows and the only tips I have seen are on fiberglass
                    > prods
                    > > which
                    > > are not period. I am sure they used little peaces of leather on
                    > the tips
                    > > to protect the string from damage like we do today.
                    > >
                    > > James Cunningham
                    > >
                    >
                    > Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian
                    > cherry, I
                    > have never seen one before up close and have no real idea what they
                    > should be
                    > set at. My first attempt last sunday was from ipe, my goal was 300#
                    > at 12" and
                    > about 150# @ a 3" brace height, was wondering if these are
                    > reasonable figures
                    > to work with. I was pretty much on target but raised a splinter at
                    > full draw
                    > which would soon fail so i am starting over. I am thinking about
                    > going to a
                    > composite or possibly stacked tapered leaf design. Has anyone used
                    > this to your
                    > knowledge? I was considering shark cartilage as a possible cushion
                    > between
                    > layers that might allow me to draw 16", but this all just theory.
                    > Badger

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                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                    If the back is starting to pull up have you tried backing with rawhide? You may be able to save the prod. What is ipe? 300# at 12 and 150# at 3 is no
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                      If the back is starting to pull up have you tried backing with rawhide? You
                      may be able to save the prod. What is ipe? 300# at 12" and 150# at 3" is
                      no problem if the prod is 4 feet long. but a more normal 28-30 inches the
                      prod should be of steel or composite. Composite should work as long as the
                      total draw is 8-10 inches from a 3-4 inch brace height, but again how long
                      is the prod? Stacked leaf will work but is less efficient any padding makes
                      it even less efficient...because as the total mass of the prod increases
                      more of the total energy stored in the prod is required to get it (and the
                      bolt) up to speed .

                      What is the lenth of the prod? What is the design? ie flat bow, "D" section
                      etc. What are you going to use the bow for? Even in period hunting bows
                      were a lower poundage pull than war crossbows.

                      James Cunningham

                      > Hi James, I am working on a crossbow as we speak out of brazilian cherry,
                      I
                      > have never seen one before up close and have no real idea what they should
                      be
                      > set at. My first attempt last sunday was from ipe, my goal was 300# at 12"
                      and
                      > about 150# @ a 3" brace height, was wondering if these are reasonable
                      figures
                      > to work with. I was pretty much on target but raised a splinter at full
                      draw
                      > which would soon fail so i am starting over. I am thinking about going to
                      a
                      > composite or possibly stacked tapered leaf design. Has anyone used this to
                      your
                      > knowledge? I was considering shark cartilage as a possible cushion between
                      > layers that might allow me to draw 16", but this all just theory. Badger
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                      > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                      > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >
                      > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • badger5149@aol.com
                      In a message dated 7/30/2003 7:26:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Prod length was 32 , design was between a d section and flat bow. Was going to use it for
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                        In a message dated 7/30/2003 7:26:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                        cunning@... writes:

                        > What is the lenth of the prod? What is the design? ie flat bow, "D"
                        > section
                        > etc. What are you going to use the bow for? Even in period hunting bows
                        > were a lower poundage pull than war crossbows.
                        >

                        Prod length was 32", design was between a "d" section and flat bow. Was going
                        to use it for an indoor target shooter at less than 25 yards. Ipe is a very
                        hard brazilian hardwood, has several names including ironwood. The brazilian
                        cherry I am going to try next is also known as locust, has a higher flexural
                        modulas rating and may work. I would like to do a composite but have never tried
                        that except with fiberglass and other modern materials. Would a 12" draw
                        length put the arrow speed in the category of a 50 or 60# long bow? badger


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Godwin@rmci.net
                        ... Will, Go here: http://www.archery-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/ArrowHeads.shtml Bottom of the page, on the right hand side. I ve dealt with Tom before, he s a
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                          > Message: 1
                          > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:16:12 -0000
                          > From: "williamcrossbow" <williamcrossbow@...>
                          > Subject: Period Crossbow Tips
                          >
                          > Can anybody tell me where I can purchase period crossbow tips?
                          >
                          > Will

                          Will,

                          Go here:

                          http://www.archery-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/ArrowHeads.shtml

                          Bottom of the page, on the right hand side.

                          I've dealt with Tom before, he's a good chap.

                          I also have pictures that "I" took of a period bolt tip. If you would like
                          those, I can either send them to your personal e-mail, or if someone else
                          wants, I can post them to the photos section of the groups area.

                          We were lucky enough here to have someone donate their medieval weapon
                          collection to the historical museum, and because of our connections with
                          the museum, they asked us to come in and tour the collection....complete
                          with white gloves to actually handle all the artifacts. It was hard to
                          keep the drool off the stuff ;)

                          Godwin
                        • williamcrossbow
                          Thx. Maybe get to meet you this evening. Will
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                            Thx. Maybe get to meet you this evening.

                            Will
                          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                            12 of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow 12 of draw at 70lb will shoot like a 30# longbow...Can you say rainbow bolts. You need to find a tight
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                              12" of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow
                              12" of draw at 70lb will shoot like a 30# longbow...Can you say rainbow
                              bolts.
                              You need to find a tight grain wood that does not have cracks for bothe the
                              pod and stock. We could not find either in Brisban and had to settle for
                              somethink less perfect.

                              James Cunningham

                              >
                              >
                              > Prod length was 32", design was between a "d" section and flat bow. Was
                              going
                              > to use it for an indoor target shooter at less than 25 yards. Ipe is a
                              very
                              > hard brazilian hardwood, has several names including ironwood. The
                              brazilian
                              > cherry I am going to try next is also known as locust, has a higher
                              flexural
                              > modulas rating and may work. I would like to do a composite but have never
                              tried
                              > that except with fiberglass and other modern materials. Would a 12" draw
                              > length put the arrow speed in the category of a 50 or 60# long bow?
                              badger
                            • badger5149@aol.com
                              In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:32:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... I am not real familiar with the crossbow terms, so I am assuming the prod is the bow
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 30, 2003
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                                In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:32:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                cunning@... writes:

                                > 12" of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow
                                >

                                I am not real familiar with the crossbow terms, so I am assuming the prod is
                                the bow section of the crossbow. Anyway, I finished the cherry prod today and
                                decided to put a protective glass back on it. In my press I can bend the limbs
                                back 6" at 230#. I made a little model piece for the sake of calculating the
                                draw length and I think this will give me about 12" . Now i have to figure out
                                how i am going to mount it to the stock. I was going to glue it and run a
                                bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it. My release is a
                                pair of cams on both sides of the arrow that just lifts it off of a notch in the
                                wood, I havent tried it under any real pressure yet. Anyway, still at the
                                drawing board. made this one 30" long. Badger


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Carolus Eulenhorst
                                NO, NO, NO!!!! Do not glue or drill the prod. The first will cause undue stress and the second will weaken the prod and make it liable to breakage. Cut a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                  NO, NO, NO!!!! Do not glue or drill the prod. The first will cause
                                  undue stress and the second will weaken the prod and make it liable to
                                  breakage. Cut a notch in the front of the tiller about 5 degrees from
                                  vertical so the tips of the prod are lifted. Drill a 1" or 1.25" hole in
                                  the tiller leaving about 4" of wood back of the notch. Put a thin piece
                                  of leather on each side of the prod and center it in the notch. Put a
                                  half round block of wood the width of the prod with a groove cut in each
                                  end over it (it should extend about 0.75" past the tiller on each side.
                                  Take about 30 feet of cord (waxed linen, jute, or artificial sinew will
                                  work) and center it in the hole. Run each end over the block, back to
                                  the hole and pass both ends through the hole. Repeat, putting an
                                  overhand knot in the cord as it passes through the hole about every tenth
                                  time. Continue this maintaining tension until you nearly run out of cord
                                  and then tie it off through the hole with a double square knot. Then
                                  take about 12 feet of cord and thread it behind the cords on one side of
                                  the tiller, centering it and pulling it as close to the hole as you can
                                  get. Wrap the cord around the two bundles of cord and pull them
                                  together. Continue to wrap until you nearly run out of cord or reach the
                                  prod and tie it off as you did the first cord. Repeat on the other side.
                                  These cords will put tension on the binding and lock in the prod which
                                  should already be pretty tight from the tension you put on the first
                                  cord. This will hold the prod securely but allow the flexibility to let
                                  it work properly. Be aware most, if not all your local public ranges do
                                  not allow crossbows and most local jurisdictions here classify them as
                                  firearms.

                                  In service to the dream
                                  Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                  eulenhorst@...

                                  On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:13:04 EDT badger5149@... writes:
                                  > In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:32:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                  > cunning@... writes:
                                  >
                                  > > 12" of draw at 150lb will shoot like a 70# longbow
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > I am not real familiar with the crossbow terms, so I am assuming the
                                  > prod is
                                  > the bow section of the crossbow. Anyway, I finished the cherry prod
                                  > today and
                                  > decided to put a protective glass back on it. In my press I can bend
                                  > the limbs
                                  > back 6" at 230#. I made a little model piece for the sake of
                                  > calculating the
                                  > draw length and I think this will give me about 12" . Now i have to
                                  > figure out
                                  > how i am going to mount it to the stock. I was going to glue it and
                                  > run a
                                  > bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it. My
                                  > release is a
                                  > pair of cams on both sides of the arrow that just lifts it off of a
                                  > notch in the
                                  > wood, I havent tried it under any real pressure yet. Anyway, still
                                  > at the
                                  > drawing board. made this one 30" long. Badger

                                  ________________________________________________________________
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                                • badger5149@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 7/31/2003 12:06:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Thanks, this was very helpful! Badger [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                    In a message dated 7/31/2003 12:06:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                                    eulenhorst@... writes:

                                    > NO, NO, NO!!!! Do not glue or drill the prod.

                                    Thanks, this was very helpful! Badger


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                    I was going to glue it and run a ... Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will crack and break even under a piece of metal. James
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                      I was going to glue it and run a
                                      > bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it.

                                      Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will crack and
                                      break even under a piece of metal.

                                      James Cunningham
                                    • badger5149@aol.com
                                      In a message dated 7/31/2003 11:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... I used the slot method with leather seemed to work good, I went ahead and tillered into the
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                        In a message dated 7/31/2003 11:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                                        cunning@... writes:

                                        > I was going to glue it and run a
                                        > >bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it.
                                        >
                                        > Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will crack and
                                        > break even under a piece of metal.
                                        >
                                        > James Cunningham
                                        >
                                        >

                                        I used the slot method with leather seemed to work good, I went ahead and
                                        tillered into the 21/2"mounting area to allow that to work also, feels a lot
                                        better still has plenty of draw strength, waiting for nocks to dry so i can string
                                        it up and try it tomorrow. I think this bow will end up kind of a model
                                        prototype for the next one as everything is experimental. How do most cock the bow?
                                        I will be using a cocking stick for the time being, till I perfect some kind
                                        of lever. The string will be sliding across the top of the stock so I am
                                        making an arrow slot that puts the string level with nock height, Is this normal?
                                        Badger


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Carolus Eulenhorst
                                        The string should just clear the table of the bow (top of tiller) but your idea of an bolt groove is one of the common ways of guiding the bolt. Make sure it
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                          The string should just clear the table of the bow (top of tiller) but
                                          your idea of an bolt groove is one of the common ways of guiding the
                                          bolt. Make sure it is centered in the tiller and the center of the bolt
                                          rests against the center of the string. The other is a grooved block at
                                          the end of the tiller. In your case it is the best option. I'll bring
                                          my xbows to practice on the 17th though we can't shoot them.

                                          In service to the dream
                                          Carolus von Eulenhorst
                                          eulenhorst@...

                                          On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:51:39 EDT badger5149@... writes:
                                          > In a message dated 7/31/2003 11:41:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                                          > cunning@... writes:
                                          >
                                          > > I was going to glue it and run a
                                          > > >bolt thru the center with a large piece of flat metal over it.
                                          > >
                                          > > Bad Plan... the hole any hole will weaken the prod and it will
                                          > crack and
                                          > > break even under a piece of metal.
                                          > >
                                          > > James Cunningham
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > I used the slot method with leather seemed to work good, I went
                                          > ahead and
                                          > tillered into the 21/2"mounting area to allow that to work also,
                                          > feels a lot
                                          > better still has plenty of draw strength, waiting for nocks to dry
                                          > so i can string
                                          > it up and try it tomorrow. I think this bow will end up kind of a
                                          > model
                                          > prototype for the next one as everything is experimental. How do
                                          > most cock the bow?
                                          > I will be using a cocking stick for the time being, till I perfect
                                          > some kind
                                          > of lever. The string will be sliding across the top of the stock so
                                          > I am
                                          > making an arrow slot that puts the string level with nock height, Is
                                          > this normal?
                                          > Badger

                                          ________________________________________________________________
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                                        • badger5149@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 7/31/2003 2:57:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... That would be great, my trigger idea was a no go! too much pressure, I found a good sight
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                            In a message dated 7/31/2003 2:57:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                            eulenhorst@... writes:

                                            > The other is a grooved block at
                                            > the end of the tiller. In your case it is the best option. I'll bring
                                            > my xbows to practice on the 17th though we can't shoot them.
                                            >
                                            >

                                            That would be great, my trigger idea was a no go! too much pressure, I found
                                            a good sight that shows trigger plans, I hate it when I can't reinvent the
                                            wheel myself, LOL.
                                            Steve


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