Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SCA-Archery] Archery Targets Illegal?

Expand Messages
  • Bob Upson
    ... It may be a local thing, but there s certainly no SCA ban. =) YIS, Macsen
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 10, 2003
      On 10 Jul 2003 at 20:10, Onora inghen mic Tomais wrote:

      > not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human likeness'
      > are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss informed?

      It may be a local thing, but there's certainly no SCA ban. =)

      YIS,
      Macsen
    • Steve Mason
      I am unaware of any such rules. Heck we have advancing barbarians all the time. I say go for it. Lord Ragnar MacHardy, Grandmaster Bowman of the East Onora
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 10, 2003
        I am unaware of any such rules. Heck we have advancing barbarians all the time. I say go for it.


        Lord Ragnar MacHardy, Grandmaster Bowman of the East

        Onora inghen mic Tomais <ladyodett@...> wrote:
        I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and barbarians
        and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they might
        not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human likeness'
        are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss informed?



        ---8<---------------------------------------------
        Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
        Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

        [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




        "Love Learning; All else follows"- Isaac Asimov

        ---------------------------------
        Do you Yahoo!?
        SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bruce R. Gordon
        Greetings That d be a surprise - we ve been using human targets (ok, ok, IMAGES of humans AS targets...) at Pennsic for many a year, and I ve never heard of a
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 10, 2003
          Greetings
          That'd be a surprise - we've been using human targets (ok, ok,
          IMAGES of humans AS targets...) at Pennsic for many a year, and I've
          never heard of a problem with that. Where'd you hear that?

          Forester Nigel FitzMaurice, Midrealm AG

          > I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and barbarians
          > and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they might
          > not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human likeness'
          > are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss informed?
          >
          >
          >
          > ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
          > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
          >
          > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Ex Tenebra, Lux

          http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
        • hanhebin
          ... The FBI sillouette used on their pistol range I believe is Dillinger and I ve actually purchased archery targets of Bin Laden and Saddam. Michael
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 10, 2003
            > I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and barbarians
            > and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they
            > might not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human
            > likeness' are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss
            > informed?

            The FBI sillouette used on their pistol range I believe is Dillinger
            and I've actually purchased archery targets of Bin Laden and Saddam.

            Michael
          • Greg Christensen
            There are some areas, counties, cities, states (unknown which) where they are illegal. They did this to discourage training of posible killers with guns.
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
              There are some areas, counties, cities, states (unknown which) where they
              are illegal. They did this to discourage training of posible killers with
              guns. Call your local police and ask them if you are not sure.

              GREGGE the ARCHER

              >From: "hanhebin" <hamberg@...>
              >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Archery Targets Illegal?
              >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:10:21 -0000
              >
              > > I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and barbarians
              > > and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they
              > > might not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human
              > > likeness' are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss
              > > informed?
              >
              >The FBI sillouette used on their pistol range I believe is Dillinger
              >and I've actually purchased archery targets of Bin Laden and Saddam.
              >
              >Michael
              >
              >
              >---8<---------------------------------------------
              >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
              >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
              >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
              MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
              http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
            • Matt Hemmer
              Onora, As a former peace officer (Colorado) and law enforcement agent (Fed) I can reliably tell you that if it is illegal; it s either only in your state, or
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
                Onora,

                As a former peace officer (Colorado) and law enforcement agent (Fed)
                I can reliably tell you that if it is illegal; it's either only in your
                state, or your municipality, as I've trained for years shooting human
                silouettes as a cop, agent, and soldier. Further, we regularly use human
                silouettes for archer duels in Denver, Co. and can even buy them at various
                cop shops" (police/security supply stores). Check your local codes (ask a
                cop, he/she should know) but be assured that there is no Federal law against
                it (it would fall under the baliwick of the ATF). Hope this helps.....

                YIS,
                Fionn

                -------Original Message-------

                From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 06:53:37 PM
                To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] Archery Targets Illegal?

                I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and barbarians
                and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they might
                not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human likeness'
                are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss informed?



                ---8<---------------------------------------------
                Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

                [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Onora inghen mic Tomais
                LOL, thank you.. I am a canuck..( Alberta to be precise ) and well.. our government is a little more anal about the gun/weapon issues. Thank you though, I
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
                  LOL, thank you.. I am a canuck..( Alberta to be precise ) and well..
                  our government is a little more anal about the gun/weapon issues.
                  Thank you though, I never would have thought of contacting the City
                  Police for City bylaws and such.
                  DOn't think it would be an issue.. but would hate to blunder into
                  something and stir up a hornets nest.

                  Onora


                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Hemmer" <captmac382@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > Onora,
                  >
                  > As a former peace officer (Colorado) and law enforcement
                  agent (Fed)
                  > I can reliably tell you that if it is illegal; it's either only
                  in your
                  > state, or your municipality, as I've trained for years shooting
                  human
                  > silouettes as a cop, agent, and soldier. Further, we regularly use
                  human
                  > silouettes for archer duels in Denver, Co. and can even buy them
                  at various
                  > cop shops" (police/security supply stores). Check your local codes
                  (ask a
                  > cop, he/she should know) but be assured that there is no Federal
                  law against
                  > it (it would fall under the baliwick of the ATF). Hope this
                  helps.....
                  >
                  > YIS,
                  > Fionn
                  >
                  > -------Original Message-------
                  >
                  > From: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 06:53:37 PM
                  > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [SCA-Archery] Archery Targets Illegal?
                  >
                  > I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and
                  barbarians
                  > and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they
                  might
                  > not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human
                  likeness'
                  > are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss informed?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                  > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this
                  list]
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Robert Lauderdale
                  ... The only place I ve seen this rule is at the local Renaissance Festival. Chidiock the Younger Calontir
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
                    you wrote:
                    >
                    >Lord Ragnar MacHardy, Grandmaster Bowman of the East
                    >
                    >Onora inghen mic Tomais <ladyodett@...> wrote:
                    >I am doing up some sketches of horse mounted archers and barbarians
                    >and suchnot to make into targets and it dawned on me that they might
                    >not be legal. i had heard somewhere that photos and human likeness'
                    >are not permitted for target practice.... am I miss informed?
                    >

                    The only place I've seen this rule is at the local Renaissance Festival.

                    Chidiock the Younger
                    Calontir
                  • Bob Upson
                    ... Just be sure to get a citation of any supposed rules. Policeman aren t always above saying something is illegal when it is. = YIS, Macsen
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
                      On 11 Jul 2003 at 7:49, Greg Christensen wrote:

                      > There are some areas, counties, cities, states (unknown which) where they
                      > are illegal. They did this to discourage training of posible killers with
                      > guns. Call your local police and ask them if you are not sure.

                      Just be sure to get a citation of any supposed rules. Policeman
                      aren't always above saying something is "illegal" when it is. =>

                      YIS,
                      Macsen
                    • hanhebin
                      ... Let s bring this discussion to reality. They don t prosecute many laws that are presently on the books and I doubt that anything would come of shooting
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
                        >> There are some areas, counties, cities, states (unknown which)
                        >> where they are illegal. They did this to discourage training of
                        >> posible killers with guns. Call your local police and ask them if
                        >> you are not sure.

                        > Just be sure to get a citation of any supposed rules. Policeman
                        > aren't always above saying something is "illegal" when it is. =>

                        Let's bring this discussion to reality. They don't prosecute many
                        laws that are presently on the books and I doubt that anything would
                        come of shooting any kind of paper / cardboard target you wish.
                        There is simply too much case law on the books that no DA would waste
                        the resources because they know they would lose on appeal.

                        Michael
                      • Erasmus Urswyc
                        I agree with the argumnt here, I am a handgun shooter and i know its illegal to use human sillouette targets .... but you can buy them at the range if you know
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 11, 2003
                          I agree with the argumnt here, I am a handgun shooter and i know its illegal to use human sillouette targets .... but you can buy them at the range if you know the people there. I don't think anyone is going to care if you use them or not.

                          hanhebin <hamberg@...> wrote:>> There are some areas, counties, cities, states (unknown which)
                          >> where they are illegal. They did this to discourage training of
                          >> posible killers with guns. Call your local police and ask them if
                          >> you are not sure.

                          > Just be sure to get a citation of any supposed rules. Policeman
                          > aren't always above saying something is "illegal" when it is. =>

                          Let's bring this discussion to reality. They don't prosecute many
                          laws that are presently on the books and I doubt that anything would
                          come of shooting any kind of paper / cardboard target you wish.
                          There is simply too much case law on the books that no DA would waste
                          the resources because they know they would lose on appeal.

                          Michael




                          ---8<---------------------------------------------
                          Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                          Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/

                          [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]


                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                          ---------------------------------
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • James C. Wolf
                          The archery range we have indoor/winter practice at won t let us use man shaped targets for insurance reasons, outdoors in the park/summer practice they re ok
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 12, 2003
                            The archery range we have indoor/winter practice at won't let us use man
                            shaped targets for insurance reasons, outdoors in the park/summer
                            practice they're ok tho.
                            Felix G., Boga Fyrd

                            ________________________________________________________________
                            The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
                            Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
                            Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
                          • Bob Upson
                            ... Again, this is a local issue. It s certainly not an issue where I live. There are target ranges that don t allow shooting silhouettes* but it isn t
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 13, 2003
                              On 11 Jul 2003 at 23:05, Erasmus Urswyc wrote:

                              > I agree with the argumnt here, I am a handgun shooter and i know
                              > its illegal to use human sillouette targets .... but you can buy

                              Again, this is a local issue. It's certainly not an issue where I
                              live. There are target ranges that don't allow shooting silhouettes*
                              but it isn't illegal per se.

                              *(More for PR reasons than anything else, I suspect.)

                              YIS,
                              Macsen
                            • hanhebin
                              ... Agreed! Back to the original point. Can you imagine the trial of several archers getting ticketed for shooting a cardboard cutout of a mounted knight as I
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 13, 2003
                                > *(More for PR reasons than anything else, I suspect.)

                                Agreed!

                                Back to the original point. Can you imagine the trial of several
                                archers getting ticketed for shooting a cardboard cutout of a mounted
                                knight as I still remember the media attention that juror got a few
                                years back because she insisted on wearing a Star Trek uniform. The
                                media would have a field day with this one as the case would
                                definitely draw national attention. I can't imagine a single juror
                                voting guilty or single person in the courtroom having a straight
                                face.

                                Then again, it might just be worth a $50 fine because you would
                                probably get on the "Tonight Show" or "Larry King Live." Definitely
                                would get your 15 minutes of fame.

                                Michael
                              • Fearghus Mac Lochloinn
                                ... its illegal to use human sillouette targets .... but you can buy them at the range if you know the people there. I don t think anyone is going to care if
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 13, 2003
                                  --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Erasmus Urswyc
                                  <erasmus_urswyc@y...> wrote:
                                  > I agree with the argumnt here, I am a handgun shooter and i know
                                  its illegal to use human sillouette targets .... but you can buy them
                                  at the range if you know the people there. I don't think anyone is
                                  going to care if you use them or not.

                                  You must not live in the finr Peoples Republik of Kaliphornya, when I
                                  go shooting a hand gun or rifle or shotgun I can pretty much put up
                                  any target I darn well please. Just so long as it is not to
                                  distracing to the other shooters :)

                                  YIS and in Good Humor Fearghus
                                • roguenad2000
                                  ... Must be your local festival. Most of the Ones I have been doing (Corona, Econdido, Las Vegas) the Folks from the archers Of Ravenwood seem to almost always
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                    --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Robert Lauderdale
                                    <chidiock@a...> wrote:

                                    > The only place I've seen this rule is at the local
                                    > Renaissance Festival.

                                    Must be your local festival. Most of the Ones I have been doing
                                    (Corona, Econdido, Las Vegas) the Folks from the archers Of
                                    Ravenwood seem to almost always have a target or two that look like
                                    people.

                                    Nad
                                  • jameswolfden
                                    If you are still concerned, you could try to do what I did for our local barony championship shoot. I made up some dummies out of burlap (stuffed with poly).
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                      If you are still concerned, you could try to do what I did for our
                                      local barony championship shoot.

                                      I made up some dummies out of burlap (stuffed with poly). For
                                      the heads, I started with 1/2 a pool noodle and then wrapped it
                                      in strips of a cut-up blue camping foam to get it to look more like
                                      a head. However, in this case the organizer specifically
                                      requested that she wanted Orcs or some other monster. We
                                      added big pointy ears and finished the head with green crepe
                                      paper mache. It's still human shaped but, for those that would
                                      feel wrong shooting at a human being or, more importantly, for
                                      those watching who might feel it is wrong, the fact it is monster
                                      takes the edge off. I understand for many in the SCA, you will get
                                      archers that are more squeamish about shooting a 3-D deer
                                      than a knight bearing down on them.

                                      For the period police, the original text of Beowulf makes
                                      reference to an evil creature called orcneas.

                                      The following tip to those wishing to reconstruct. If you buy burlap
                                      in the gardening or landscaping department at Home Depot, it
                                      will be a lot cheaper than buying burlap at a fabric store. If you
                                      don't have enough plastic bags at home, pick up the large roll of
                                      poly while you are there.

                                      James Wolfden
                                    • Bob Upson
                                      ... Oooo! A D&D fantasy event... *gak* = ... As impressive a bit of sophistry and roundabout apologetics as I ve ever heard... Not to pick on you
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                        On 14 Jul 2003 at 15:41, jameswolfden wrote:

                                        > a head. However, in this case the organizer specifically
                                        > requested that she wanted Orcs or some other monster. We

                                        Oooo! A D&D fantasy event... *gak* =>

                                        > added big pointy ears and finished the head with green crepe
                                        > paper mache. It's still human shaped but, for those that would
                                        > feel wrong shooting at a human being or, more importantly, for
                                        > those watching who might feel it is wrong, the fact it is monster
                                        > takes the edge off. I understand for many in the SCA, you will get

                                        As impressive a bit of sophistry and roundabout apologetics as I've
                                        ever heard... Not to pick on you personally, but I think that people
                                        who feel so strongly about shooting at a "human" target should just
                                        forego shooting rather than forcing event organizers to bend to their
                                        silly hang-ups...

                                        We're allegedly doing medieval re-creation & recreation to *some*
                                        degree in the SCA and that doesn't mean shooting at "orcs" anymore
                                        than it means shooting at mass printed FITA targets.

                                        > archers that are more squeamish about shooting a 3-D deer
                                        > than a knight bearing down on them.

                                        Yup. These are people who need to find something else to do.

                                        > For the period police, the original text of Beowulf makes
                                        > reference to an evil creature called orcneas.

                                        Erm. So? Tolkien and Gary Gygax both drew heavily on mythology when
                                        creating their epic works of fiction but that doesn't make those
                                        myths any less fantastic.

                                        YIS,
                                        Macsen
                                      • Talmon Parker
                                        I,m sure that there wern t very many archers in the mid ages who were against shooting at men liknesses {targets or real} if that was what was called for at
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                          I,m sure that there wern't very many archers in the mid ages who were
                                          against shooting at men liknesses {targets or real} if that was what was
                                          called for at the time.
                                          For goodness sake, you aren't killing anything here, Loosen up and enjoy
                                          life. It's getting shorter all
                                          the time.


                                          Baron Talmon
                                          Lousy archer who shoots
                                          targets

                                          DER BARON





                                          >From: "Bob Upson" <wyvern@...>
                                          >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                                          >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Archery Targets Illegal?
                                          >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:24:09 -0400
                                          >
                                          >On 14 Jul 2003 at 15:41, jameswolfden wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > a head. However, in this case the organizer specifically
                                          > > requested that she wanted Orcs or some other monster. We
                                          >
                                          >Oooo! A D&D fantasy event... *gak* =>
                                          >
                                          > > added big pointy ears and finished the head with green crepe
                                          > > paper mache. It's still human shaped but, for those that would
                                          > > feel wrong shooting at a human being or, more importantly, for
                                          > > those watching who might feel it is wrong, the fact it is monster
                                          > > takes the edge off. I understand for many in the SCA, you will get
                                          >
                                          >As impressive a bit of sophistry and roundabout apologetics as I've
                                          >ever heard... Not to pick on you personally, but I think that people
                                          >who feel so strongly about shooting at a "human" target should just
                                          >forego shooting rather than forcing event organizers to bend to their
                                          >silly hang-ups...
                                          >
                                          >We're allegedly doing medieval re-creation & recreation to *some*
                                          >degree in the SCA and that doesn't mean shooting at "orcs" anymore
                                          >than it means shooting at mass printed FITA targets.
                                          >
                                          > > archers that are more squeamish about shooting a 3-D deer
                                          > > than a knight bearing down on them.
                                          >
                                          >Yup. These are people who need to find something else to do.
                                          >
                                          > > For the period police, the original text of Beowulf makes
                                          > > reference to an evil creature called orcneas.
                                          >
                                          >Erm. So? Tolkien and Gary Gygax both drew heavily on mythology when
                                          >creating their epic works of fiction but that doesn't make those
                                          >myths any less fantastic.
                                          >
                                          >YIS,
                                          >Macsen
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >---8<---------------------------------------------
                                          >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2003 by Medieval Mart
                                          >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                                          >
                                          >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >
                                          >

                                          _________________________________________________________________
                                          MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
                                          http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
                                        • jrosswebb1@webtv.net
                                          Let s see,people get dressed in armor and beat the crap out of each other one-on-one or in melee with heavy sticks or poles meant to represent swords,
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                            Let's see,people get dressed in armor and beat the crap out of each
                                            other one-on-one or in melee with heavy sticks or poles meant to
                                            represent swords, polearms, maces and axes. They get in their fanciest
                                            frilliest puffy sleeved shirts and doublets and try to skewer each other
                                            with rapiers and daggers, or they go out into the field dressed in armor
                                            (lght or heavy) and shoot actual projectiles from a bow at armored
                                            fighters .....and yet...there seems to be a problem in some people's
                                            eyes with the notion that archers are shooting at inanimate 2
                                            dimensional or even 3 dimensional targets made to represent a human. The
                                            lunatics are running the asylum!
                                            My business partner and best friend was a pistol instructor for
                                            Nassau County Police(NY) and also was a peace officer. For a short time
                                            I served with him on his crew. We ONLY used human shaped silhouette
                                            targets for qualifying at the range. We also had human representation
                                            targets that had features (yes It did look like John Dillenger).
                                            About 8 years ago I was the range officer at a shooting range here
                                            on Long Island. We sold human silhouette targets all of the time and
                                            they were used quite regularly. The owner of the range facility was a
                                            retired Suffolk County Lt. of Detectives.
                                            When a person purchases a pistol for protection in their home, what
                                            exactly do you think that they might be shooting at should the situation
                                            ever arise? I would want to make sure that the home-owner, gun-owner was
                                            very proficient in using that weapon and hitting what and where they
                                            were aiming at.
                                            If this concept is apalling to you...well welcome to the REAL
                                            world. People can be nasty, frightened, violent, evil, sad as well as
                                            happy, caring, loving and honorable. Sticking your head in the sand and
                                            pretending it doesn't exist won't make it go away. The middle ages was a
                                            brutal and violent time. Shooting at people with a bow and arrow was one
                                            of the more benevolent ways that they injured each other .
                                            I know of no law HERE that prohibits shooting at a human shaped
                                            silhouette target or one that is made to look like a "generic" human.
                                            Now...if you are shooting at a target that is made to represent an
                                            elected official, especially the president, then you could be in some
                                            trouble.
                                            I'm not sure about California, I guess the only human shaped
                                            targets you can shoot at there are other travellers on the freeway. :P
                                            -Geoffrei


                                            http://community.webtv.net/jrosswebb1/EASTWINDStribal
                                          • jameswolfden
                                            ... as I ve ... people ... just ... their ... *some* ... anymore ... No problem. It was an enjoyable shoot but I understand where you are coming from. It would
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                              --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Upson"
                                              <wyvern@m...> wrote:
                                              > On 14 Jul 2003 at 15:41, jameswolfden wrote:
                                              >

                                              > As impressive a bit of sophistry and roundabout apologetics
                                              as I've
                                              > ever heard... Not to pick on you personally, but I think that
                                              people
                                              > who feel so strongly about shooting at a "human" target should
                                              just
                                              > forego shooting rather than forcing event organizers to bend to
                                              their
                                              > silly hang-ups...
                                              >
                                              > We're allegedly doing medieval re-creation & recreation to
                                              *some*
                                              > degree in the SCA and that doesn't mean shooting at "orcs"
                                              anymore
                                              > than it means shooting at mass printed FITA targets.

                                              No problem. It was an enjoyable shoot but I understand where
                                              you are coming from. It would have been actually easier to
                                              change the head to a simple barrel helm. (Don't have to try to
                                              make a nose and ears. ) But, yes, in this case, the shoot
                                              organizer was wanting to do something based on LOTR. The
                                              next time they will be used, they will be modified to be viking
                                              raiders. The design allowed for modification.

                                              > > archers that are more squeamish about shooting a 3-D deer
                                              > > than a knight bearing down on them.
                                              >
                                              > Yup. These are people who need to find something else to do.

                                              The double standard just amuses me.

                                              > > For the period police, the original text of Beowulf makes
                                              > > reference to an evil creature called orcneas.
                                              >
                                              > Erm. So? Tolkien and Gary Gygax both drew heavily on
                                              mythology when
                                              > creating their epic works of fiction but that doesn't make those
                                              > myths any less fantastic.

                                              So? So nothing! That's the only defense I had. If you are not
                                              going to buy it the first time, restating it isn't going to change your
                                              mind. If I could proved that in period, they shoot at mythological
                                              targets, then I would have something. But I can't and I don't.

                                              IMHO, I think some myths are not always based on the fantastic.
                                              In some cases, it is the demonization of your enemy. Changing
                                              them from human beings defending their land to savage
                                              snarling soulless beasts - more wild than civilized.

                                              James
                                            • hanhebin
                                              ... Don t really think so here as I have yet to hear of a single person cited for shooting a human-like target nor can I find any referencing citing such a law
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jul 14, 2003
                                                > The lunatics are running the asylum!

                                                Don't really think so here as I have yet to hear of a single person
                                                cited for shooting a human-like target nor can I find any referencing
                                                citing such a law or ordinance (LEXUS/NEXUS). Me thinkest this is
                                                nothing more than urban legend.

                                                Michael
                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.