Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Royal Round Rankings

Expand Messages
  • hanhebin
    I am curious, how everybody here feels about the Royal Round Ranking system that the various kingdoms have in place. I am also curious to see if anybody wants
    Message 1 of 92 , May 12, 2003
      I am curious, how everybody here feels about the Royal Round Ranking
      system that the various kingdoms have in place. I am also curious to
      see if anybody wants to start a thread on what can done to maybe
      redesign the Ranking systems into something a bit different. I
      wouldn't mind seeing longer distances and different styled shoots and
      rankings being derived from a composite of standardized shoots.

      Michael
    • Ko
      What about greg? he puts out like 10-12 arrows with his crossbow during a timed 30 sec shoot. I can only put out between 7-8 arrows with my current recurve,
      Message 92 of 92 , Jan 5, 2007
        What about greg? he puts out like 10-12 arrows with his crossbow
        during a timed 30 sec shoot. I can only put out between 7-8 arrows
        with my current recurve, was 8-10 before with a lighter recurve.

        My point is the crossbow guy can load and shoot fast too, So wouldn't
        that completely throw things off?

        How do you compete against that?

        -Donal Maclauren

        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Siegfried Sebastian Faust
        <crossbow@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > > As for crossbows, I couldn't agree with you more. I really
        think they
        > >are a separate category of shooting.
        >
        > I may 'slightly' disagree, but that's ok :)
        >
        > > Having shot rifles in mundane life,
        > >I know that shooting from a sitting position is inherently more
        stable than
        > >from a standing position. Most crossbow archers I have ever seen
        sit
        > >on the firing line, lay their bolts near at hand on the ground,
        and are fairly
        > >accurate once they have sighted in during early practice rounds.
        >
        > And this is why some of us Crossbowmen, have chosen to always shoot
        > standing (unless the shot calls for otherwise). In my mind, if I
        see
        > myself as a period target crossbowman (quite period for myself in
        the 16th
        > century), I can't find any documentation of these target shoots
        being done
        > with the archers sitting. Bench shooting, yes, you can find that.
        But
        > that is a completely different story from archers walking around
        with a
        > piece of leather to place on the ground to sit on, and flopping
        themselves
        > down.
        >
        > If I consider myself as practicing for combat. Same problems,
        kneeling
        > behind a pavise, sure. So a kneeling crossbowman I don't have a
        problem
        > with. But I just can't see a crossbowman running up in the field
        of
        > battle, dropping to the field and then shooting.
        >
        > Either way, I don't see the medieval crossbowman sitting on the
        > ground. And so I don't.
        >
        > > All that being said, in tournaments if there are some unmarked
        > > distances and timed rounds as well as some longer distance
        shoots, it can
        > > be balanced out
        > >to make it a chalenging competition!!
        >
        > Well said.
        >
        > As a crossbowman, when I often hear of people complaining about
        crossbows,
        > and how they are unbalancing at an event ... they never stop to
        look at the
        > shoot.
        >
        > Shoots can be well designed to be a balanced competition for all
        involved,
        > but they quite often aren't. People designing the shoots think
        about what
        > would be cool, and stop there, not thinking about balancing them
        afterwards.
        >
        > Usually these shoots where the crossbows overpower the bows, are
        ones with
        > known distances, no speed rounds, many shots per target, etc.
        >
        > Most likely someone made a couple of cardboard targets, set them
        out, and
        > said for everyone to take 6 shots at each untimed. This is the
        > crossbowman's dream. AS WELL AS anyone who is an accurate, but
        slow, shooter.
        >
        > Some more thought needs put into balancing the overall
        competition. Have a
        > good mix of speed & untimed rounds. Unmarked distances. Odd
        shooting
        > conditions. Movement of the archer (a 'running' shoot), etc.
        Kill/Wound
        > zones. One/two shot targets, etc.
        >
        > Looking into these ideas and thinking about balancing your shoot
        between
        > the faster less accurate archers, and the slower more accurate
        archers, and
        > you will find a good competition with the bows & crossbows running
        neck&neck.
        >
        > Conversely, I have been to competitions, that as a crossbowman,
        were
        > IMPOSSIBLE for me to win.
        >
        > One example was an event I went to, a large roving range, with,
        let's say,
        > 10 targets. Every single target was a single arrow, with just a 1-
        point
        > for a hit. EXCEPT for one. Ok, so right now you have a 9-point
        total match.
        >
        > The 'last' target, was a speed round, against multiple targets, on
        which
        > one of the targets had multiple hits possible, and that target had
        a
        > 2-point (large) kill zone. But you had to hit these two other
        targets
        > first. (Standard hunter & his dogs idea) Well, being a standing
        > crossbowman, I can get 5-6 shots off in 30 seconds. With multiple
        targets,
        > make that only 5. So at most, I could get 8 points here. giving
        me a
        > maximum for the course, of 17 points. However, the bowmen there
        who could
        > shoot 10-12 arrows in 30 seconds, could get a maximum of 18-22
        points on
        > that one shoot alone. Meaning that they could have skipped the
        whole rest
        > of the shoot, showed up only at that one target, and outshoot me
        for the
        > whole competition *grin*
        >
        > Anyway, the point is, that shoots can be unbalanced in either
        direction,
        > and unfortuantely, the 'standard shoots' tend to be a bit
        unbalanced in the
        > direction of the crossbow.
        >
        > >Crossbow Royal Round, essentially the only difference would be to
        > >have everyone shoot from a standing postion (kneeling behind a
        shield
        > >on the battlefield was also period for crossbows) and adjust
        somehow
        > >for the difference in a crossbows rate of fire for a 30-second
        round.
        >
        > Well, a number of people & myself have discussed the RR as it
        stands, and
        > have decided (open to debate here), that the RR IS balanced, at
        the '100'
        > mark. That is to say, once you start hitting around a score of
        100, the
        > bowman and crossbowman, are at similar levels of practice, skill,
        > effort. Because the speed portion of the competition really starts
        to
        > become important at these higher scores.
        >
        > At the lower score levels, the crossbowman jumps up the rank
        > quicker. Because of the reliance of short range, untimed accuracy
        at known
        > distances. All things in the crossbowmans favor.
        >
        > The idea had been tossed around, of a modifed ranking system, to
        make
        > things equal perhaps. Currently, in Atlantia, we have:
        > 40 - Marksman
        > 60 - Bowman
        > 80 - Bowman Elite
        > 100 - Grand Bowman Elite
        >
        > The idea to 'balance' the crossbows, would be to have 15point steps
        for
        > them, starting down from 100:
        > 55 - Marksman
        > 70 - Bowman
        > 85 - Bowman Elite
        > 100 - Grand Bowman Elite
        >
        > With the idea again being that things are already balanced at the
        100
        > mark. But that this raises the 'entry level' bar for the
        crossbowmen.
        >
        > Siegfried
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        ___
        > THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery
        Marshal
        > Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-
        foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.