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Re: Loose-headed arrows & Silk

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  • Kinjal of Moravia
    ... on ... extracted ... came ... particularly more difficult to extract an arrow head that had failed to pierce a silk shirt. Grab hold of the silk evenly
    Message 1 of 4 , May 10, 2003
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      --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carl West <eisen@a...> wrote:
      > Kinjal of Moravia wrote:
      > > ...
      > > It is documented that the Mongols did not not leave their fallen
      on
      > > the field, and that their silk shirts allowed arrows to be
      extracted
      > > without fatal effect. This would not be posssible if the heads
      came
      > > off.
      >
      > I don't get why having the head come off would make it
      particularly more difficult to extract an arrow head that had failed
      to pierce a silk shirt. Grab hold of the silk evenly around the edge
      of the wound and haul the thing out just like you would if there
      _was_ a shaft. The orientation of the head during the reverse pull
      would likely be the same as when there was a shaft. And
      the 'smoothing' or barb-covering action of the silk would be the
      same too.
      >
      > I've heard that silk worked that way with musket balls too.
      >
      > -Fritz
      >
      >> I am sure you could be correct, but I fail to believe that
      soldiers would be so careless. If I were in charge I would want my
      barbed arrows to be permanent and lethal, maybe dip them in cow-shit
      or something. The idea that an arrow head simply fell off makes no
      strategical sense, though I appreciate your recognition of silk
      effectiveness. But then, a a lot of other mediaval practices don't
      make sense either, like King Richard refusing to allow knights on
      horses to charge the field - unfair?

      What will happen when a combatant tells a marshal he was not injured
      beause he has a silk shirt and that the arrow head probably fell
      off?
    • jameswolfden
      ... not injured ... In SCA combat, the marshall would tell him he was dead because he didn t have a silk shirt, he was wearing mail over a padded gambeson.
      Message 2 of 4 , May 11, 2003
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        --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Kinjal of Moravia"
        <gusarimagic@r...> wrote:


        >
        > What will happen when a combatant tells a marshal he was
        not injured
        > beause he has a silk shirt and that the arrow head probably fell
        > off?

        In SCA combat, the marshall would tell him he was dead
        because he didn't have a silk shirt, he was wearing mail over a
        padded gambeson. You can wear whatever armour suits your
        persona but the SCA combat rules evens everything out and
        everybody is considered to be wearing the same.

        From the Rules of the List, Section V. Acknowledgment of
        Blows...

        1. All "fully armored" fighters are presumed to be wearing a
        hauberk over a padded gambeson with boiled leather arm and
        leg defenses and an open-faced iron helm with a nasal.

        James Wolfden
      • Kinjal of Moravia
        ... Yes, of course -- and in playing the SCA game this is fine. But those who attack CA want to force a reconstuctist attitude to their benefit. Yet these
        Message 3 of 4 , May 11, 2003
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          --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "jameswolfden" <jim.welch@c...>
          wrote:
          > --- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, "Kinjal of Moravia"
          > <gusarimagic@r...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > >
          > > What will happen when a combatant tells a marshal he was
          > not injured
          > > beause he has a silk shirt and that the arrow head probably fell
          > > off?
          >
          > In SCA combat, the marshall would tell him he was dead
          > because he didn't have a silk shirt, he was wearing mail over a
          > padded gambeson. You can wear whatever armour suits your
          > persona but the SCA combat rules evens everything out and
          > everybody is considered to be wearing the same.
          >
          > From the Rules of the List, Section V. Acknowledgment of
          > Blows...
          >
          > 1. All "fully armored" fighters are presumed to be wearing a
          > hauberk over a padded gambeson with boiled leather arm and
          > leg defenses and an open-faced iron helm with a nasal.
          >
          > James Wolfden

          Yes, of course -- and in playing the SCA game this is fine. But
          those who attack CA want to force a 'reconstuctist' attitude to
          their benefit. Yet these stick fighters follow rules of combat that
          are not period consistent -- we select Princes and Kings based on
          combat rules that would not have survived in real combat. Ever hear
          of 'step though' or 'shield charge'? Not allowed, but if a 'heavy'
          ever attacks me after 'light' surrended, he will know what they are -
          - and may not sire children thereafter. I once had a man pull a gun
          on me in one of my businesses - mistake - I took him to the hospital
          with a broken arm and knee cap -- then called the police, for which
          I got cited for 'improper response'. The victim still writes to me.

          and I am a gentle person, not very well trained, but also a disabled
          Viet Nam vet. My staggering 250 lbs can do some damage in a full
          charge and I wouldn't hesitate, unlike someone who has never...

          The point is that while playing this game one could still get hurt,
          and I will never fight heavy. But once I have signed that insurance
          release form I question the ability of the group to control
          (politics)activities for 'my protection' -- we already have one
          silly governement -- don't need another -- but if you must
          legislate, do it for consistent and period reasons, not caprice.
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