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Re: [SCA-Archery] Hand shock

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  • gary
    Are there any online sources for bow building? gary ... gary
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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      Are there any online sources for bow building?
      gary
      On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 09:39 AM, cwilson@... wrote:

      >
      > I have little experience with longbows, but I have been happy with my
      > woodbows.com longbow. The first thing I needed to adjust to was
      > wearing an
      > arm brace. With a recurve, I have never slapped my arm, inherit in
      > the way
      > I hold the bow I just never scrape my own skin off. BUT, the longbow
      > seems
      > to follow threw and hit my wrist bones. So, I got an arm guard.
      >
      > I would love to have a horn-nocked bow from Baron Bows, but that $95
      > worth
      > of saved pennies will have to wait.
      >
      > -Caedmon
      >
      >
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      gary
    • hanhebin
      ... Most archers that I have seen hit themselves with their bowstrings do so because they are trying to watch their arrows fly down range. A 6 brace height
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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        >> The first thing I needed to adjust to was wearing an arm brace.
        >> With a recurve, I have never slapped my arm, inherit in the way
        >> I hold the bow I just never scrape my own skin off. BUT, the
        >> longbow seems to follow threw and hit my wrist bones. So, I got
        >> an arm guard.

        > A typical brace height for a recurve will be around 8.5 inches. A
        > typical brace height for long bow will be around 6 inches. Both
        > vary with the nock to nock length of the bow and a few other
        > variables but the longbow brace height will be shorter by 2-3
        > inches. This means that the string will hit further up the arm
        > with a longbow. I wear a bracer whether I am shooting my longbow or
        > my recurve but I need to adjust where it is sitting on my arm.

        Most archers that I have seen hit themselves with their bowstrings do
        so because they are trying to watch their arrows fly down range. A
        6" brace height should have nothing to do with whether or not you hit
        your arm with your bowstring.

        You can avoid the string by either developing the patience to not
        watch your arrow fly down range. I've seen too many archers try to
        sneak a peek and twist their bowstrings directly into their arm. To
        break the habbit I have found that shooting dark shafted arrows with
        all the same colored fletch and a color that you have a difficult
        time seeing down range works well. The other item that works well is
        to develop the habbit of not moving your bow arm or head until AFTER
        your arrow strikes the target (unrealistic for speed rounds or
        shooting longer than 40 yards). This works best if you can have
        another archer watch you shoot and remind you when you are moving
        your head or bowarm.

        Another way to prevent your string from hitting your arm is by
        opening your stance. Unless you are String Walking or shooting an
        Olympic recurve there is real need to shoot with a closed stance. If
        you open your stance this will change the angle of the string and
        elminate most of the chances of the string striking your arm or
        clothing.

        Michael
      • Carolus Eulenhorst
        I will second the comment about peeking . Another common cause is not rotating the elbow to point outward instead of down when setting up to draw. Rotating
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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          I will second the comment about "peeking". Another common cause is not
          rotating the elbow to point outward instead of down when setting up to
          draw. Rotating the elbow removes the muscle of the forearm from the path
          of the string and reduces the chance of being hit to nearly nil. I
          typically do not use a bracer at all and only get string burn if I really
          screw up a shot (kind of a reminder to get it right). Holding one's
          position until the arrow hits the target is known as follow through and
          is taught to all modern target archers. On the mundane line it is common
          to hold the position even when shooting 50, 60, 70 meters or more. I
          have found that once I get tin the habit of following through, my speed
          rounds improve as I no longer wait for the shot to hit and my form is
          constant (just faster).

          In service to the dream
          Carolus von Eulenhorst
          eulenhorst@...

          On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:58:22 -0000 "hanhebin" <hamberg@...> writes:
          <<snip>>
          > Most archers that I have seen hit themselves with their bowstrings
          > do
          > so because they are trying to watch their arrows fly down range. A
          >
          > 6" brace height should have nothing to do with whether or not you
          > hit
          > your arm with your bowstring.
          >
          > You can avoid the string by either developing the patience to not
          > watch your arrow fly down range. I've seen too many archers try to
          >
          > sneak a peek and twist their bowstrings directly into their arm. To
          >
          > break the habbit I have found that shooting dark shafted arrows with
          >
          > all the same colored fletch and a color that you have a difficult
          > time seeing down range works well. The other item that works well
          > is
          > to develop the habbit of not moving your bow arm or head until AFTER
          >
          > your arrow strikes the target (unrealistic for speed rounds or
          > shooting longer than 40 yards). This works best if you can have
          > another archer watch you shoot and remind you when you are moving
          > your head or bowarm.
          >
          > Another way to prevent your string from hitting your arm is by
          > opening your stance. Unless you are String Walking or shooting an
          > Olympic recurve there is real need to shoot with a closed stance.
          > If
          > you open your stance this will change the angle of the string and
          > elminate most of the chances of the string striking your arm or
          > clothing.
          >
          > Michael

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        • hanhebin
          ... While it helps speed rounds it sure makes things difficult to go back to shooting 3 arrows in 2 minutes. I have to intentionally avoid speed rounds before
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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            > I have found that once I get tin the habit of following through, my
            > speed rounds improve as I no longer wait for the shot to hit and my
            > form is constant (just faster).

            While it helps speed rounds it sure makes things difficult to go back
            to shooting 3 arrows in 2 minutes. I have to intentionally avoid
            speed rounds before mundane competition because firing too rapidly
            takes at least 10 to 20 points off my score.

            Michael
          • Carolus Eulenhorst
            In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy. I make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of venue) to slow down and
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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              In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy. I
              make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of venue) to
              slow down and take my time. Were it not for the short distances of SCA
              competitions I would have a difficult time with the speed ends.

              In service to the dream
              Carolus von Eulenhorst
              eulenhorst@...

              On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:02:29 -0000 "hanhebin" <hamberg@...> writes:
              > > I have found that once I get tin the habit of following through,
              > my
              > > speed rounds improve as I no longer wait for the shot to hit and
              > my
              > > form is constant (just faster).
              >
              > While it helps speed rounds it sure makes things difficult to go
              > back
              > to shooting 3 arrows in 2 minutes. I have to intentionally avoid
              > speed rounds before mundane competition because firing too rapidly
              > takes at least 10 to 20 points off my score.
              >
              > Michael

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            • hanhebin
              ... NOT BEING CRITICAL OF THOSE THAT SHOOT OUTSTANDING SPEED ROUNDS I ve always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point blank distances we shoot
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                > In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy.
                > I make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of
                > venue) to slow down and take my time. Were it not for the short
                > distances of SCA competitions I would have a difficult time with
                > the speed ends.

                NOT BEING CRITICAL OF THOSE THAT SHOOT OUTSTANDING SPEED ROUNDS

                I've always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point
                blank distances we shoot in the SCA would do versus longer
                distances. Say maybe 100 yards on a 122 cm face. I've heard of many
                40+ 20 yard speed round scores but wonder how that would translate
                versus an archer that got just 3 or 4 good shots off considering a
                longer distance.

                In mundane shooting a shot that hits blue for me at 18 meters on a 40
                cm target will MISS at 90 meters on a 122 cm target. I've seen a
                minor string plucks shooting indoor FITAs still strike gold but
                completely miss while shooting the longer FITA distances outdoors.
                Just curious what anybody knows about the numbers of speed round
                scores versus static scores shooting at longer distances like a York
                Round.

                Michael
              • Harry Bilings
                Remind my in March or April and I will let you kmow how mine turned out. I plan to shoot at 40 , 60, and 80 yds with a 122 cm target. May move to 100 yds just
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                  Remind my in March or April and I will let you kmow how mine turned out. I
                  plan to shoot at 40 , 60, and 80 yds with a 122 cm target. May move to 100
                  yds just for fun.

                  plachoya

                  humble archer
                  Ravens Fort Ansteorra





                  >From: "hanhebin" <hamberg@...>
                  >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Hand shock
                  >Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:08:16 -0000
                  >
                  > > In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy.
                  > > I make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of
                  > > venue) to slow down and take my time. Were it not for the short
                  > > distances of SCA competitions I would have a difficult time with
                  > > the speed ends.
                  >
                  >NOT BEING CRITICAL OF THOSE THAT SHOOT OUTSTANDING SPEED ROUNDS
                  >
                  >I've always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point
                  >blank distances we shoot in the SCA would do versus longer
                  >distances. Say maybe 100 yards on a 122 cm face. I've heard of many
                  >40+ 20 yard speed round scores but wonder how that would translate
                  >versus an archer that got just 3 or 4 good shots off considering a
                  >longer distance.
                  >
                  >In mundane shooting a shot that hits blue for me at 18 meters on a 40
                  >cm target will MISS at 90 meters on a 122 cm target. I've seen a
                  >minor string plucks shooting indoor FITAs still strike gold but
                  >completely miss while shooting the longer FITA distances outdoors.
                  >Just curious what anybody knows about the numbers of speed round
                  >scores versus static scores shooting at longer distances like a York
                  >Round.
                  >
                  >Michael
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >---8<---------------------------------------------
                  >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                  >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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                  >
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                • hanhebin
                  ... The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly magnified. I think a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                    > Remind my in March or April and I will let you kmow how mine turned
                    > out. I plan to shoot at 40 , 60, and 80 yds with a 122 cm target.
                    > May move to 100 yds just for fun.

                    The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                    loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                    magnified. I think a person shooting 3 or 4 good shots in 30 seconds
                    at 100 yards will consistantly out score somebody shooting 10 arrows
                    in that same period.

                    I have hard data to back that up with execpt being familar with
                    losing ACEs or X10s because I goof a 90 meter shot. With arrows
                    costing between $30 and $60 a piece, you tend to remember each miss
                    and what you did wrong. With knowing "MY MISTAKES" can't see a person
                    shooting good enough to consitantly hit more a couple of arrows
                    firing at a 10 arrow pace.

                    Michael
                  • Eadric Anstapa
                    ... From: hanhebin ... I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on several occasions that he was not good
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "hanhebin" <hamberg@...>
                      >
                      > The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                      > loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                      > magnified.
                      >

                      I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on
                      several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a recurve. When
                      asked to explain the statement he would reply that recurves were simply too
                      unforgiving for his taste and in his experience they amplified the smallest
                      of mistakes. Therefore Howard Hill stayed with his longbows.

                      Regards,

                      Lord Eadric Anstapa
                      Kingdom Archery Marshal, Ansteorra
                      eadric@...
                    • starkey arthur
                      ... From: hanhebin ... I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 8, 2002
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                        Eadric Anstapa <smills@...> wrote:
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "hanhebin"
                        >
                        > The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                        > loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                        > magnified.
                        >

                        I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on
                        several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a recurve. When
                        asked to explain the statement he would reply that recurves were simply too
                        unforgiving for his taste and in his experience they amplified the smallest
                        of mistakes. Therefore Howard Hill stayed with his longbows.

                        Regards,

                        Lord Eadric Anstapa
                        Kingdom Archery Marshal, Ansteorra
                        eadric@...

                        So did Ben Pierson except for trick shots.

                        Lord Artair Macmora




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                      • hanhebin
                        ... Magnified for me is plucking my string and launching an arrow in the 8 ring on a 40cm target and in the SCA that would still be a gold and considered a
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 8, 2002
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                          >> The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                          >> loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                          >> magnified.

                          > I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as
                          > saying on several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a
                          > recurve. When asked to explain the statement he would reply that
                          > recurves were simply too unforgiving for his taste and in his
                          > experience they amplified the smallest of mistakes. Therefore
                          > Howard Hill stayed with his longbows.

                          Magnified for me is plucking my string and launching an arrow in the
                          8 ring on a 40cm target and in the SCA that would still be a gold and
                          considered a good shot. I don't think Howard Hill was speaking or
                          even considering the current technology when he made his statement.
                          I don't want to ramble on about the accuracy of the current
                          technology but there are reasons why good limbs cost over $600.

                          Michael
                        • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                          I have had some experience with this kind of shooting(100yard Iron Man ) If I have time to range in and get the wind correction, I can get 2-3 on a 122cm face
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 9, 2002
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                            I have had some experience with this kind of shooting(100yard "Iron Man")
                            If I have time to range in and get the wind correction, I can get 2-3 on a
                            122cm face out of six. When going to speed mode the scores are less
                            consistent but I still get off 5-6 arrows in 30 sec. with 1-3 on target.
                            Without ranging in.... all bets are off.

                            James Cunningham

                            > I've always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point
                            > blank distances we shoot in the SCA would do versus longer
                            > distances. Say maybe 100 yards on a 122 cm face. I've heard of many
                            > 40+ 20 yard speed round scores but wonder how that would translate
                            > versus an archer that got just 3 or 4 good shots off considering a
                            > longer distance.
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