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Re: [SCA-Archery] Hand shock

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  • gary
    Are there any online sources for bow building? gary ... gary
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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      Are there any online sources for bow building?
      gary
      On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 09:39 AM, cwilson@... wrote:

      >
      > I have little experience with longbows, but I have been happy with my
      > woodbows.com longbow. The first thing I needed to adjust to was
      > wearing an
      > arm brace. With a recurve, I have never slapped my arm, inherit in
      > the way
      > I hold the bow I just never scrape my own skin off. BUT, the longbow
      > seems
      > to follow threw and hit my wrist bones. So, I got an arm guard.
      >
      > I would love to have a horn-nocked bow from Baron Bows, but that $95
      > worth
      > of saved pennies will have to wait.
      >
      > -Caedmon
      >
      >
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      gary
    • jameswolfden
      ... my ... wearing an ... the way ... longbow seems ... $95 worth ... A typical brace height for a recurve will be around 8.5 inches. A typical brace height
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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        --- In SCA-Archery@y..., cwilson@m... wrote:
        >
        > I have little experience with longbows, but I have been happy with
        my
        > woodbows.com longbow. The first thing I needed to adjust to was
        wearing an
        > arm brace. With a recurve, I have never slapped my arm, inherit in
        the way
        > I hold the bow I just never scrape my own skin off. BUT, the
        longbow seems
        > to follow threw and hit my wrist bones. So, I got an arm guard.
        >
        > I would love to have a horn-nocked bow from Baron Bows, but that
        $95 worth
        > of saved pennies will have to wait.
        >
        > -Caedmon

        A typical brace height for a recurve will be around 8.5 inches. A
        typical brace height for long bow will be around 6 inches. Both vary
        with the nock to nock length of the bow and a few other variables but
        the longbow brace height will be shorter by 2-3 inches. This means
        that the string will hit further up the arm with a longbow. I wear a
        bracer whether I am shooting my longbow or my recurve but I need to
        adjust where it is sitting on my arm.

        The cheapest longbow is the one you build yourself. For those of us
        who live in places where the weather prevents us from getting out to
        range as much as we used to, now is the time to get whittling.

        James Wolfden
      • hanhebin
        ... Most archers that I have seen hit themselves with their bowstrings do so because they are trying to watch their arrows fly down range. A 6 brace height
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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          >> The first thing I needed to adjust to was wearing an arm brace.
          >> With a recurve, I have never slapped my arm, inherit in the way
          >> I hold the bow I just never scrape my own skin off. BUT, the
          >> longbow seems to follow threw and hit my wrist bones. So, I got
          >> an arm guard.

          > A typical brace height for a recurve will be around 8.5 inches. A
          > typical brace height for long bow will be around 6 inches. Both
          > vary with the nock to nock length of the bow and a few other
          > variables but the longbow brace height will be shorter by 2-3
          > inches. This means that the string will hit further up the arm
          > with a longbow. I wear a bracer whether I am shooting my longbow or
          > my recurve but I need to adjust where it is sitting on my arm.

          Most archers that I have seen hit themselves with their bowstrings do
          so because they are trying to watch their arrows fly down range. A
          6" brace height should have nothing to do with whether or not you hit
          your arm with your bowstring.

          You can avoid the string by either developing the patience to not
          watch your arrow fly down range. I've seen too many archers try to
          sneak a peek and twist their bowstrings directly into their arm. To
          break the habbit I have found that shooting dark shafted arrows with
          all the same colored fletch and a color that you have a difficult
          time seeing down range works well. The other item that works well is
          to develop the habbit of not moving your bow arm or head until AFTER
          your arrow strikes the target (unrealistic for speed rounds or
          shooting longer than 40 yards). This works best if you can have
          another archer watch you shoot and remind you when you are moving
          your head or bowarm.

          Another way to prevent your string from hitting your arm is by
          opening your stance. Unless you are String Walking or shooting an
          Olympic recurve there is real need to shoot with a closed stance. If
          you open your stance this will change the angle of the string and
          elminate most of the chances of the string striking your arm or
          clothing.

          Michael
        • Carolus Eulenhorst
          I will second the comment about peeking . Another common cause is not rotating the elbow to point outward instead of down when setting up to draw. Rotating
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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            I will second the comment about "peeking". Another common cause is not
            rotating the elbow to point outward instead of down when setting up to
            draw. Rotating the elbow removes the muscle of the forearm from the path
            of the string and reduces the chance of being hit to nearly nil. I
            typically do not use a bracer at all and only get string burn if I really
            screw up a shot (kind of a reminder to get it right). Holding one's
            position until the arrow hits the target is known as follow through and
            is taught to all modern target archers. On the mundane line it is common
            to hold the position even when shooting 50, 60, 70 meters or more. I
            have found that once I get tin the habit of following through, my speed
            rounds improve as I no longer wait for the shot to hit and my form is
            constant (just faster).

            In service to the dream
            Carolus von Eulenhorst
            eulenhorst@...

            On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:58:22 -0000 "hanhebin" <hamberg@...> writes:
            <<snip>>
            > Most archers that I have seen hit themselves with their bowstrings
            > do
            > so because they are trying to watch their arrows fly down range. A
            >
            > 6" brace height should have nothing to do with whether or not you
            > hit
            > your arm with your bowstring.
            >
            > You can avoid the string by either developing the patience to not
            > watch your arrow fly down range. I've seen too many archers try to
            >
            > sneak a peek and twist their bowstrings directly into their arm. To
            >
            > break the habbit I have found that shooting dark shafted arrows with
            >
            > all the same colored fletch and a color that you have a difficult
            > time seeing down range works well. The other item that works well
            > is
            > to develop the habbit of not moving your bow arm or head until AFTER
            >
            > your arrow strikes the target (unrealistic for speed rounds or
            > shooting longer than 40 yards). This works best if you can have
            > another archer watch you shoot and remind you when you are moving
            > your head or bowarm.
            >
            > Another way to prevent your string from hitting your arm is by
            > opening your stance. Unless you are String Walking or shooting an
            > Olympic recurve there is real need to shoot with a closed stance.
            > If
            > you open your stance this will change the angle of the string and
            > elminate most of the chances of the string striking your arm or
            > clothing.
            >
            > Michael

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          • hanhebin
            ... While it helps speed rounds it sure makes things difficult to go back to shooting 3 arrows in 2 minutes. I have to intentionally avoid speed rounds before
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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              > I have found that once I get tin the habit of following through, my
              > speed rounds improve as I no longer wait for the shot to hit and my
              > form is constant (just faster).

              While it helps speed rounds it sure makes things difficult to go back
              to shooting 3 arrows in 2 minutes. I have to intentionally avoid
              speed rounds before mundane competition because firing too rapidly
              takes at least 10 to 20 points off my score.

              Michael
            • Carolus Eulenhorst
              In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy. I make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of venue) to slow down and
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 6, 2002
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                In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy. I
                make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of venue) to
                slow down and take my time. Were it not for the short distances of SCA
                competitions I would have a difficult time with the speed ends.

                In service to the dream
                Carolus von Eulenhorst
                eulenhorst@...

                On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 03:02:29 -0000 "hanhebin" <hamberg@...> writes:
                > > I have found that once I get tin the habit of following through,
                > my
                > > speed rounds improve as I no longer wait for the shot to hit and
                > my
                > > form is constant (just faster).
                >
                > While it helps speed rounds it sure makes things difficult to go
                > back
                > to shooting 3 arrows in 2 minutes. I have to intentionally avoid
                > speed rounds before mundane competition because firing too rapidly
                > takes at least 10 to 20 points off my score.
                >
                > Michael

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              • hanhebin
                ... NOT BEING CRITICAL OF THOSE THAT SHOOT OUTSTANDING SPEED ROUNDS I ve always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point blank distances we shoot
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                  > In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy.
                  > I make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of
                  > venue) to slow down and take my time. Were it not for the short
                  > distances of SCA competitions I would have a difficult time with
                  > the speed ends.

                  NOT BEING CRITICAL OF THOSE THAT SHOOT OUTSTANDING SPEED ROUNDS

                  I've always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point
                  blank distances we shoot in the SCA would do versus longer
                  distances. Say maybe 100 yards on a 122 cm face. I've heard of many
                  40+ 20 yard speed round scores but wonder how that would translate
                  versus an archer that got just 3 or 4 good shots off considering a
                  longer distance.

                  In mundane shooting a shot that hits blue for me at 18 meters on a 40
                  cm target will MISS at 90 meters on a 122 cm target. I've seen a
                  minor string plucks shooting indoor FITAs still strike gold but
                  completely miss while shooting the longer FITA distances outdoors.
                  Just curious what anybody knows about the numbers of speed round
                  scores versus static scores shooting at longer distances like a York
                  Round.

                  Michael
                • Harry Bilings
                  Remind my in March or April and I will let you kmow how mine turned out. I plan to shoot at 40 , 60, and 80 yds with a 122 cm target. May move to 100 yds just
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                    Remind my in March or April and I will let you kmow how mine turned out. I
                    plan to shoot at 40 , 60, and 80 yds with a 122 cm target. May move to 100
                    yds just for fun.

                    plachoya

                    humble archer
                    Ravens Fort Ansteorra





                    >From: "hanhebin" <hamberg@...>
                    >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [SCA-Archery] Re: Hand shock
                    >Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:08:16 -0000
                    >
                    > > In this I concur, shooting too fast can be deleterious to accuracy.
                    > > I make a conscious effort in untimed competitions (regardless of
                    > > venue) to slow down and take my time. Were it not for the short
                    > > distances of SCA competitions I would have a difficult time with
                    > > the speed ends.
                    >
                    >NOT BEING CRITICAL OF THOSE THAT SHOOT OUTSTANDING SPEED ROUNDS
                    >
                    >I've always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point
                    >blank distances we shoot in the SCA would do versus longer
                    >distances. Say maybe 100 yards on a 122 cm face. I've heard of many
                    >40+ 20 yard speed round scores but wonder how that would translate
                    >versus an archer that got just 3 or 4 good shots off considering a
                    >longer distance.
                    >
                    >In mundane shooting a shot that hits blue for me at 18 meters on a 40
                    >cm target will MISS at 90 meters on a 122 cm target. I've seen a
                    >minor string plucks shooting indoor FITAs still strike gold but
                    >completely miss while shooting the longer FITA distances outdoors.
                    >Just curious what anybody knows about the numbers of speed round
                    >scores versus static scores shooting at longer distances like a York
                    >Round.
                    >
                    >Michael
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---8<---------------------------------------------
                    >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                    >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
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                    >
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                  • hanhebin
                    ... The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly magnified. I think a
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                      > Remind my in March or April and I will let you kmow how mine turned
                      > out. I plan to shoot at 40 , 60, and 80 yds with a 122 cm target.
                      > May move to 100 yds just for fun.

                      The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                      loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                      magnified. I think a person shooting 3 or 4 good shots in 30 seconds
                      at 100 yards will consistantly out score somebody shooting 10 arrows
                      in that same period.

                      I have hard data to back that up with execpt being familar with
                      losing ACEs or X10s because I goof a 90 meter shot. With arrows
                      costing between $30 and $60 a piece, you tend to remember each miss
                      and what you did wrong. With knowing "MY MISTAKES" can't see a person
                      shooting good enough to consitantly hit more a couple of arrows
                      firing at a 10 arrow pace.

                      Michael
                    • Eadric Anstapa
                      ... From: hanhebin ... I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on several occasions that he was not good
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 7, 2002
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "hanhebin" <hamberg@...>
                        >
                        > The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                        > loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                        > magnified.
                        >

                        I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on
                        several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a recurve. When
                        asked to explain the statement he would reply that recurves were simply too
                        unforgiving for his taste and in his experience they amplified the smallest
                        of mistakes. Therefore Howard Hill stayed with his longbows.

                        Regards,

                        Lord Eadric Anstapa
                        Kingdom Archery Marshal, Ansteorra
                        eadric@...
                      • starkey arthur
                        ... From: hanhebin ... I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 8, 2002
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                          Eadric Anstapa <smills@...> wrote:
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "hanhebin"
                          >
                          > The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                          > loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                          > magnified.
                          >

                          I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as saying on
                          several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a recurve. When
                          asked to explain the statement he would reply that recurves were simply too
                          unforgiving for his taste and in his experience they amplified the smallest
                          of mistakes. Therefore Howard Hill stayed with his longbows.

                          Regards,

                          Lord Eadric Anstapa
                          Kingdom Archery Marshal, Ansteorra
                          eadric@...

                          So did Ben Pierson except for trick shots.

                          Lord Artair Macmora




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                        • hanhebin
                          ... Magnified for me is plucking my string and launching an arrow in the 8 ring on a 40cm target and in the SCA that would still be a gold and considered a
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 8, 2002
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                            >> The further out the better because I have noticed that with a fully
                            >> loaded Olympic recurve that even the slightest error is greatly
                            >> magnified.

                            > I have always enjoyed that the great Howard Hill was noted as
                            > saying on several occasions that he was not good enough to shoot a
                            > recurve. When asked to explain the statement he would reply that
                            > recurves were simply too unforgiving for his taste and in his
                            > experience they amplified the smallest of mistakes. Therefore
                            > Howard Hill stayed with his longbows.

                            Magnified for me is plucking my string and launching an arrow in the
                            8 ring on a 40cm target and in the SCA that would still be a gold and
                            considered a good shot. I don't think Howard Hill was speaking or
                            even considering the current technology when he made his statement.
                            I don't want to ramble on about the accuracy of the current
                            technology but there are reasons why good limbs cost over $600.

                            Michael
                          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                            I have had some experience with this kind of shooting(100yard Iron Man ) If I have time to range in and get the wind correction, I can get 2-3 on a 122cm face
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 9, 2002
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                              I have had some experience with this kind of shooting(100yard "Iron Man")
                              If I have time to range in and get the wind correction, I can get 2-3 on a
                              122cm face out of six. When going to speed mode the scores are less
                              consistent but I still get off 5-6 arrows in 30 sec. with 1-3 on target.
                              Without ranging in.... all bets are off.

                              James Cunningham

                              > I've always wanted to see how archers that shoot good at the point
                              > blank distances we shoot in the SCA would do versus longer
                              > distances. Say maybe 100 yards on a 122 cm face. I've heard of many
                              > 40+ 20 yard speed round scores but wonder how that would translate
                              > versus an archer that got just 3 or 4 good shots off considering a
                              > longer distance.
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