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Arrow rest

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  • Brennin
    Okay, just recieved a new used recurve. It looks great, and once I get a string it will be almost perfect. But I one question/problem at the moment. It
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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      Okay, just recieved a new "used" recurve. It looks great, and once I
      get a string it will be almost perfect. But I one question/problem
      at the moment. It does not have an arrow rest. In itself this is
      not a big problem. But I am not sure if I should use one, though a
      fixed place to put the shaft would add to consistancy of my shots, or
      shoot off my hand. If I do put a rest on what type would be period,
      and what type would be allowed by the SCA? Brennin of the Shire
    • Bruce R. Gordon
      Greetings An arrow rest for recurves is a useful thing to have, and some are permitted in the SCA. Period practice is a bit obscure here, especially for
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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        Greetings
        An arrow rest for recurves is a useful thing to have, and some are
        permitted in the SCA. Period practice is a bit obscure here, especially
        for recurve styles which were used mainly by Turks and Steppe nomads
        rather than Westerners. I think there is some evidence in Western
        longbows for built-up rests consisting of chips of wood or bone, tied
        to the grip or inserted into the wrapping - anyone else have more
        precise documentation?
        As far as SCA practice goes, any of a variety of passive rests are
        permitted. By "passive rest", I refer to what typically appear as small
        rubber or plastic pads that you glue onto the side of the cut-out, that
        have a lttle arm-and-hook dingus the juts out at a bit of an angle - go
        to a bow shop and ask to see one, you'll see what I mean. They are
        extremely cheap, and very easy to attach. They are also easy to remove
        and replace, necessary since they do wear out eventually. There are
        left- and right-handed varieties, be sure to get the correct type. You
        can also build up the shelf, create a shelf in roughly the manner I
        described above, or use any of a wide variety of other fixed or passive
        systems.
        What isn't allowed are mechanical, or spring rests (sometimes
        called flipper rests). These are roughly the same configuration, but
        have a little metal arm which adjusts and springs into place. Again, go
        find one to look at, and it'll be obvious.

        Cordially;
        Nigel FitzMaurice

        > Okay, just recieved a new "used" recurve. It looks great, and once I
        > get a string it will be almost perfect. But I one question/problem
        > at the moment. It does not have an arrow rest. In itself this is
        > not a big problem. But I am not sure if I should use one, though a
        > fixed place to put the shaft would add to consistancy of my shots, or
        > shoot off my hand. If I do put a rest on what type would be period,
        > and what type would be allowed by the SCA? Brennin of the Shire
        >
        >
        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
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      • J. Hughes
        There is extensive discussions of arrow rests in the period texts: Latham, J.D., and W.F. Paterson, _Saracen Archery: An English Version of a Mameluke Work on
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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          There is extensive discussions of arrow rests in the
          period texts: Latham, J.D., and W.F. Paterson,
          _Saracen Archery: An English Version of a Mameluke
          Work on Archery_, The Holland Press: London, 1970; and
          Faris, N.A., & Elmer, R.P. [Trans. & Ed.], _Arab
          Archery - An Arab manuscript of about A.D. 1500, 'A
          Book on the Excellance of the Bow and Arrow'and the
          Description Thereof_, Princetown University Press,
          1945. These cover the practice in North Africa and
          Spain (Al Andalus) under Islamic rule.

          Charles O'Connor
          --- "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...> wrote:
          > Greetings
          > An arrow rest for recurves is a useful thing to
          > have, and some are
          > permitted in the SCA. Period practice is a bit
          > obscure here, especially
          > for recurve styles which were used mainly by Turks
          > and Steppe nomads
          > rather than Westerners. I think there is some
          > evidence in Western
          > longbows for built-up rests consisting of chips of
          > wood or bone, tied
          > to the grip or inserted into the wrapping - anyone
          > else have more
          > precise documentation?
          > As far as SCA practice goes, any of a variety
          > of passive rests are
          > permitted. By "passive rest", I refer to what
          > typically appear as small
          > rubber or plastic pads that you glue onto the side
          > of the cut-out, that
          > have a lttle arm-and-hook dingus the juts out at a
          > bit of an angle - go
          > to a bow shop and ask to see one, you'll see what I
          > mean. They are
          > extremely cheap, and very easy to attach. They are
          > also easy to remove
          > and replace, necessary since they do wear out
          > eventually. There are
          > left- and right-handed varieties, be sure to get the
          > correct type. You
          > can also build up the shelf, create a shelf in
          > roughly the manner I
          > described above, or use any of a wide variety of
          > other fixed or passive
          > systems.
          > What isn't allowed are mechanical, or spring
          > rests (sometimes
          > called flipper rests). These are roughly the same
          > configuration, but
          > have a little metal arm which adjusts and springs
          > into place. Again, go
          > find one to look at, and it'll be obvious.
          >
          > Cordially;
          > Nigel FitzMaurice
          >
          > > Okay, just recieved a new "used" recurve. It
          > looks great, and once I
          > > get a string it will be almost perfect. But I one
          > question/problem
          > > at the moment. It does not have an arrow rest.
          > In itself this is
          > > not a big problem. But I am not sure if I should
          > use one, though a
          > > fixed place to put the shaft would add to
          > consistancy of my shots, or
          > > shoot off my hand. If I do put a rest on what
          > type would be period,
          > > and what type would be allowed by the SCA?
          > Brennin of the Shire
          > >
          > >
          > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by
          > Medieval Mart
          > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's
          > http://www.medievalmart.com/
          > >
          > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > to leave this list]
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Ex Tenebra, Lux
          >
          > http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ---8<---------------------------------------------
          > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by
          > Medieval Mart
          > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's
          > http://www.medievalmart.com/
          >
          > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to
          > leave this list]
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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          >
          >


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        • hanhebin
          ... What a flipper rest is designed to do is to hold the shaft of the arrow against the plunger during the entire shot. The flip comes after the arrow clears
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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            > What isn't allowed are mechanical, or spring rests (sometimes
            > called flipper rests). These are roughly the same configuration,
            > but have a little metal arm which adjusts and springs into place.
            > Again, go find one to look at, and it'll be obvious.

            What a flipper rest is designed to do is to hold the shaft of the
            arrow against the plunger during the entire shot. The flip comes
            after the arrow clears the rest the wire flips inwards towards the
            riser. For a good shooter it will dampen some of your minor mistakes
            but does little or nothing to help a bad shot.

            Michael
          • blockflute1@aol.com
            I m not sure if any of it is period. What kind archer are you that uses a recurve; Mongol, Turk, etc? I understand some European countries had recurve bows
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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              I'm not sure if any of it is period. What kind archer are you that uses a
              recurve; Mongol, Turk, etc? I understand some European countries had recurve
              bows although I do not know which ones. Are you one of these? I think arrow
              rests were fairly late devices from the 19th and 20th centuries but I am sure
              that one of the ancient archers could have used one.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • brennin2@aol.com
              ... Actually if nessassary it will be a bit of a heirloom from a relitive who fought somewhere or other. But the truth be known I am working backwards on my
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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                In a message dated 10/30/2002 6:52:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, blockflute1 writes:

                > I'm not sure if any of it is period. What kind archer are you that uses a
                > recurve; Mongol, Turk, etc? I understand some European countries had recurve
                > bows although I do not know which ones. Are you one of these? I think arrow
                > rests were fairly late devices from the 19th and 20th
                > centuries but I am sure
                > that one of the ancient archers could have used one.

                Actually if nessassary it will be a bit of a heirloom from a relitive who fought somewhere or other. But the truth be known I am working backwards on my bows. I have a compound that I can hit a taget with, just got the recurve. Once I can work the recurve I will go down to the traditional long bow. Also was eventualy going to ask about short bows, but that is for another post. Brennin
              • Bruce R. Gordon
                Greetings I ve seen St. Sebastian paintings done in Italy in the 15th century in which the archers were clearly using very modern looking recurves, so I ve
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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                  Greetings
                  I've seen St. Sebastian paintings done in Italy in the 15th
                  century in which the archers were clearly using very modern looking
                  recurves, so I've always assumed that there was knowledge of the style
                  from an acceptably early date - certainly the Russians were familiar
                  with them. In any event, you might not want to get tied down to
                  shooting a bow that your persona would have been accustomed to - that
                  gets really tangled and kind of frustrating. The SCA accepts every
                  basic configuration of traditional bow, and allows for mylar and
                  fibreglass... I'd advise you just work up your skills with whatever you
                  have available before trying to recreate a totally authentic archer
                  persona - if for no other reason than trying to pull 110 pound longbows
                  would be, um, difficult. Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention in my
                  previous post - if you do decide to shoot off the hand, be sure to get
                  a bow-hand glove, unless you think infected papercuts build character.

                  Cordially;
                  Nigel FitzMaurice

                  > I'm not sure if any of it is period. What kind archer are you that
                  uses a
                  > recurve; Mongol, Turk, etc? I understand some European countries had
                  recurve
                  > bows although I do not know which ones. Are you one of these? I
                  think arrow
                  > rests were fairly late devices from the 19th and 20th centuries but I
                  am sure
                  > that one of the ancient archers could have used one.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                  > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                  > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                  >
                  > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Ex Tenebra, Lux

                  http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
                • J. Hughes
                  Arrow rests can be easily dated to the 14th and 15th century in Islamic texts. They indicate they are much older than that. The recruve was definitely known in
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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                    Arrow rests can be easily dated to the 14th and 15th
                    century in Islamic texts. They indicate they are much
                    older than that.

                    The recruve was definitely known in Europe. There are
                    pictures of military engagements that show recruve and
                    any mention of horse archery usually means either
                    recruve or crossbow. (It was possible to shoot a short
                    strait bow from horse back but that is not what is
                    pictured.)For example I have in front of me a woodcut
                    of the Emperor Maximilian of the Holy Roman Empire
                    shooting a recruve at a target.

                    Charles O'Connor
                    --- blockflute1@... wrote:
                    > I'm not sure if any of it is period. What kind
                    > archer are you that uses a
                    > recurve; Mongol, Turk, etc? I understand some
                    > European countries had recurve
                    > bows although I do not know which ones. Are you one
                    > of these? I think arrow
                    > rests were fairly late devices from the 19th and
                    > 20th centuries but I am sure
                    > that one of the ancient archers could have used one.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                    > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by
                    > Medieval Mart
                    > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's
                    > http://www.medievalmart.com/
                    >
                    > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to
                    > leave this list]
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


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                  • Carolus Eulenhorst
                    Many rests sold as spring rests are also allowed as they are actually simple wire rests and thus allowed. The real difficulty are the rests with internal
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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                      Many rests sold as spring rests are also allowed as they are actually
                      simple wire rests and thus allowed. The real difficulty are the rests
                      with internal springs which allow the arrow plate itself (the surface
                      which rests against the side of the arrow) to move to compensate for the
                      side pressure of the arrow against the bow or those which positively snap
                      away from the arrow. The latter are usually listed as magnetic rests,
                      "snap" rests, or flipper rests. This is basically a judgement call by
                      the Range Marshal. I teach my marshals that a liberal view should be
                      taken and if the rest provides no mechanical advantage to the archer, is
                      not adjustable, and does not appear manifestly modern at a reasonable
                      viewing distance it should be allowed.

                      In service to the dream
                      Lord Carolus von Eulenhorst
                      Master of Archers, Kingdom of Caid
                      eulenhorst@...

                      On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:55:50 -0500 "Bruce R. Gordon" <obsidian@...>
                      writes:
                      > Greetings
                      > An arrow rest for recurves is a useful thing to have, and some
                      > are
                      > permitted in the SCA. Period practice is a bit obscure here,
                      > especially
                      > for recurve styles which were used mainly by Turks and Steppe nomads
                      >
                      > rather than Westerners. I think there is some evidence in Western
                      > longbows for built-up rests consisting of chips of wood or bone,
                      > tied
                      > to the grip or inserted into the wrapping - anyone else have more
                      > precise documentation?
                      > As far as SCA practice goes, any of a variety of passive rests
                      > are
                      > permitted. By "passive rest", I refer to what typically appear as
                      > small
                      > rubber or plastic pads that you glue onto the side of the cut-out,
                      > that
                      > have a lttle arm-and-hook dingus the juts out at a bit of an angle -
                      > go
                      > to a bow shop and ask to see one, you'll see what I mean. They are
                      > extremely cheap, and very easy to attach. They are also easy to
                      > remove
                      > and replace, necessary since they do wear out eventually. There are
                      >
                      > left- and right-handed varieties, be sure to get the correct type.
                      > You
                      > can also build up the shelf, create a shelf in roughly the manner I
                      >
                      > described above, or use any of a wide variety of other fixed or
                      > passive
                      > systems.
                      > What isn't allowed are mechanical, or spring rests (sometimes
                      > called flipper rests). These are roughly the same configuration, but
                      >
                      > have a little metal arm which adjusts and springs into place. Again,
                      > go
                      > find one to look at, and it'll be obvious.
                      >
                      > Cordially;
                      > Nigel FitzMaurice

                      ________________________________________________________________
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                    • hanhebin
                      ... Vivat!!! I think too many people within the SCA are unfamilar with these modern archery devices. I shot a 274 Vegas Round today and if I would of removed
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 30, 2002
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                        > This is basically a judgement call by the Range Marshal. I teach
                        > my marshals that a liberal view should be taken and if the rest
                        > provides no mechanical advantage to the archer, is not adjustable,
                        > and does not appear manifestly modern at a reasonable viewing
                        > distance it should be allowed.

                        Vivat!!!

                        I think too many people within the SCA are unfamilar with these
                        modern archery devices. I shot a 274 Vegas Round today and if I
                        would of removed the magnet from my flipper rest I would of probably
                        still shot a 274.

                        Michael
                      • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                        ... Snip Does the keeper of the IKAC/Winter Round/ Royal Rounds know this? Wire rests are out(not allowed) in my view. James Cunningham
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 31, 2002
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                          > Many rests sold as spring rests are also allowed as they are actually
                          > simple wire rests and thus allowed.
                          Snip

                          Does the keeper of the IKAC/Winter Round/ Royal Rounds know this?
                          Wire rests are out(not allowed) in my view.

                          James Cunningham
                        • Bruce R. Gordon
                          Greetings Speaking for the Midrealm in general and the Winter Challenge (everyone DID see the reminder yesterday about it starting again tomorrow, right? ) in
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 31, 2002
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                            Greetings
                            Speaking for the Midrealm in general and the Winter Challenge
                            (everyone DID see the reminder yesterday about it starting again
                            tomorrow, right? ) in particular, the manual specifically allows for
                            wire rests if they are not adjustable (1.2.1.C.4). You do see them
                            sometimes when inspecting - whenever I see wire instead of rubber or
                            plastic, the first thing I do is check to see if it is a spring mount
                            or simply a bit of wire sticking immovably out. As a previous writer
                            mentioned a day or so ago, the difference is a bit subtle, and can be
                            considered something of a value judgement on the part of the inspecting
                            marshal. But for what it's worth, James, the manual does distinguish
                            between the two types.

                            Cordially;
                            Forester Nigel FitzMaurice, Midrealm AG

                            >
                            >
                            > > Many rests sold as spring rests are also allowed as they are
                            actually
                            > > simple wire rests and thus allowed.
                            > Snip
                            >
                            > Does the keeper of the IKAC/Winter Round/ Royal Rounds know this?
                            > Wire rests are out(not allowed) in my view.
                            >
                            > James Cunningham
                            >
                            > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                            > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                            > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                            >
                            > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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                            >
                            >
                            >

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                            http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
                          • Carolus Eulenhorst
                            Please allow me to quote from the rules posted by Simon (the emphasis is mine): 4) No modern spring/flipper rests or plunger buttons are allowed. The use
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 31, 2002
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                              Please allow me to quote from the rules posted by Simon (the emphasis is
                              mine):

                              4) No modern spring/flipper rests or plunger buttons are allowed.
                              The
                              use of simple rests is allowed, such as: simple one-piece plastic or
                              non-adjustable wire rests; feather, bristle, leather, etc. rests; built
                              out
                              shelves or rests. The use of the shelf in a cut-out window is also
                              allowed.

                              As to IKAC or Winter Challenge it depends on the ruling of the keeper of
                              the shoot as they are private shoots. Royal Rounds are typically run by
                              kingdom with somewhat more flexible intrerpretations.

                              In service to the dream
                              Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              eulenhorst@...

                              On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:03:22 -0500 "James W. Pratt, Jr."
                              <cunning@...> writes:
                              >
                              >
                              > > Many rests sold as spring rests are also allowed as they are
                              > actually
                              > > simple wire rests and thus allowed.
                              > Snip
                              >
                              > Does the keeper of the IKAC/Winter Round/ Royal Rounds know this?
                              > Wire rests are out(not allowed) in my view.
                              >
                              > James Cunningham

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • hanhebin
                              ... I try as much as possible to bring SCA legal equipment but sometimes it just isn t possible. Not every time I also want to use loaner equipment for good
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 31, 2002
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                                > 4) No modern spring/flipper rests or plunger buttons are allowed.

                                I try as much as possible to bring SCA legal equipment but sometimes
                                it just isn't possible. Not every time I also want to use loaner
                                equipment for good reason. There is good possibility that the
                                Olympic Trials will be in your kingdom next year and I wouldn't mind
                                shooting again with you folks but wouldn't want to be turned away and
                                prevented from shooting just because I'm using more modern appliances.


                                Michael
                              • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                Thanks! Back to the books! James Cunningham in particular, the manual specifically allows for
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 31, 2002
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                                  Thanks! Back to the books!

                                  James Cunningham

                                  in particular, the manual specifically allows for
                                  > wire rests if they are not adjustable (1.2.1.C.4). You do see them
                                  > sometimes when inspecting - whenever I see wire instead of rubber or
                                  > plastic, the first thing I do is check to see if it is a spring mount
                                  > or simply a bit of wire sticking immovably out. As a previous writer
                                  > mentioned a day or so ago, the difference is a bit subtle, and can be
                                  > considered something of a value judgement on the part of the inspecting
                                  > marshal. But for what it's worth, James, the manual does distinguish
                                  > between the two types.
                                • hanhebin
                                  ... You can disable a magnetic flipper rest by simply adjusting the wire arm away from the arrow shaft. The adjustment on my flipper rest takes about 5
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 1, 2002
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                                    >> Many rests sold as spring rests are also allowed as they are
                                    >> actually simple wire rests and thus allowed.

                                    > Speaking for the Midrealm in general and the Winter Challenge
                                    > (everyone DID see the reminder yesterday about it starting again
                                    > tomorrow, right? ) in particular, the manual specifically allows
                                    > for wire rests if they are not adjustable (1.2.1.C.4). You do see
                                    > them sometimes when inspecting - whenever I see wire instead of
                                    > rubber or plastic, the first thing I do is check to see if it is a
                                    > spring mount or simply a bit of wire sticking immovably out. As a
                                    > previous writer mentioned a day or so ago, the difference is a bit
                                    > subtle, and can be considered something of a value judgement on the
                                    > part of the inspecting marshal. But for what it's worth, James, the
                                    > manual does distinguish between the two types.

                                    You can disable a magnetic flipper rest by simply adjusting the wire
                                    arm away from the arrow shaft. The adjustment on my flipper rest
                                    takes about 5 seconds to do and there are ABSOLUTELY no ill effects.

                                    Michael
                                  • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                    Greetings to all of the list from Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie, I have heard that there was a fighting discipline where spear-tips were fitted over the
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 1, 2002
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                                      Greetings to all of the list from Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie,
                                      I have heard that there was a fighting discipline where spear-tips
                                      were fitted over the heads of yumi to facilitate close combat for
                                      those who used bows. Do any of you have pictorial refs for such...Are
                                      their descriptions, or refs telling of how and when these might have
                                      been used in period, or is it a post period thing? It sounds Sengoku
                                      Jidai, but I don't know?
                                      I found a web site depicting such, but I cannot account for the
                                      validity of the research, as it looks cheezy, and the photos are
                                      definitely post period.
                                      Anyone with more understanding would be welcome to enlighten us...
                                      Ever curious about yumi, and their uses...
                                      Date Yukiie



                                      Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                      Shi-wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                                      http://www.kabutographics.com
                                      Kabuto@c...
                                    • Marko Peussa
                                      There isn t too much material around. The following is an excerpt from the book: Kyudo, The Way of The Bow, Feliks Hoff, ISBN 1-57062-852-1 ...Having come to
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 1, 2002
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                                        There isn't too much material around. The following is an excerpt from the
                                        book: Kyudo, The Way of The Bow, Feliks Hoff, ISBN 1-57062-852-1

                                        "...Having come to within a few meters of the target, he then took his bow
                                        under his arm and used it as a thrusting weapon, accompanying his thrust
                                        with a long kiai. It was not at all unusual to use the bow as a thrusting
                                        weapon. Often war bows had a lance set into the tip, or else, if his string
                                        had broken, the archer bound his short sword onto the upper end of his bow
                                        and then used it as a naginata..."

                                        So, in principle you have two ways. The first: thrust only, the second, like
                                        naginata. As for the thrust, one-handed thrust is made for example in the
                                        Heki ceremony shooting. You grip the bow handle with the left hand, string
                                        facing to the left, take three steps forward and while turning sideways
                                        extend your left arm to thrust at the target. At the end of the thrust the
                                        foot of the bow touches your back. For the two handed thrust, the closest
                                        thing I've seen is in the Satsuma Heki Ryu Video. Grip the bow handle with
                                        the left hand and the foot of the bow with the right hand.

                                        As for the naginata, you have plenty of material around.

                                        Battle shooting is still taught in Heki Ryu Insai Ha at advanced level.
                                        Another Ryu that does battle shooting is Satsuma Heki Ryu. According to Mori
                                        sensei of Insai Ha, it is possible to go Japan and take training with
                                        Satsuma Heki guys. When I asked how long it would take, he said that only a
                                        few weeks are necessary. So you have the option of going to Satsuma Heki Ryu
                                        for training, or to Heki Ryu Insai Ha. In the latter case it will take
                                        several years before you have the chance to try to learn battle shooting. I
                                        have taken this path.

                                        In the book Kyudo, Shooting the Japanese Bow, Japanese and English Technical
                                        Terms, by Hans Gundermann, there is a picture of the sharp lance head for
                                        the bow. It is called UCHINE, and is almost like a very short arrow, like a
                                        dart with feathers and spearhead. It could be used as a tip for the bow or
                                        as a projectile(!).

                                        Klaus



                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie" <kabuto@...>
                                        To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 18:25
                                        Subject: [SCA-Archery] Yumi and such


                                        > Greetings to all of the list from Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie,
                                        > I have heard that there was a fighting discipline where spear-tips
                                        > were fitted over the heads of yumi to facilitate close combat for
                                        > those who used bows. Do any of you have pictorial refs for such...Are
                                        > their descriptions, or refs telling of how and when these might have
                                        > been used in period, or is it a post period thing? It sounds Sengoku
                                        > Jidai, but I don't know?
                                        > I found a web site depicting such, but I cannot account for the
                                        > validity of the research, as it looks cheezy, and the photos are
                                        > definitely post period.
                                        > Anyone with more understanding would be welcome to enlighten us...
                                        > Ever curious about yumi, and their uses...
                                        > Date Yukiie
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                                        > Shi-wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
                                        > http://www.kabutographics.com
                                        > Kabuto@c...
                                        >
                                        >
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                                      • akiba79
                                        Thankyou for the information concerning the arrow rest on bows.........tis much appreciated. Alis
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jun 21, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thankyou for the information concerning the arrow rest on
                                          bows.........tis much appreciated.
                                          Alis
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