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draft article.. comments?

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  • John Edgertom
    The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them. Thank you Jon
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 26 10:27 PM
      The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.

      Thank you

      Jon
      *****************************************************************



      TARGET-LESS PRACTICE

      by

      Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf, West

      O. L., O.P., R.C.A., R.C.Y.


      It is often difficult for archers to find a place to practice their archery skills at home since many of us do not have fields, large back yards or driveways to use or we can not go outside to shoot because of inclement weather. However, there is a way to practice, improve your skills and stay in condition even if you live in a small apartment in town.


      In the past and even today, handbow archers in the Near to Far East, as well as the West have made use of tightly packed straw and other materials as a backstop for their arrows while practicing their form. In Arabic countries this was called a torba and in Japan it was called a makiwara. This is done up close and without a target at which to aim. In some Eastern countries beginning archers might spend months just practicing their: Stance, bow grip, nocking the arrow, drawing, holding and release before ever shooting at a target. This practice was often done only five or six feet from the surface that was stopping their arrows.


      One of the major keys to accurate shooting is consistency. If your grip, draw, anchor or release vary from shot to shot, then where your arrows strikes will also vary. To obtain consistency you must learn correct form and practice it. You should try to practice at least three times per week and if possible once a day. You should try for a hour a day, either in a straight hour or in two or three shorter segments that add up to at least an hour. However, if you only have a chance to practice once or twice a month, you will be a long time in achieving consistency and thereby accuracy. Archery is so much more fun if you can hit what you are aiming at, at least part of the time.


      One of the methods used in Eastern countries was a barrel filled with tightly packed straw. This was placed on a stand so the center of the open front of the barrel was at the shoulder lever of the archer's shoulder, then the arrows were shot into this, pulled and shot again and again. Current Western practice of the same technique sometimes makes use of a target mat or a bag or cardboard box packed firmly with old plastic trash or grocery bags. These can stop target or hunting arrows from even heavy bows and you can easily remove the arrows from the material. However, setting something like this up in your hallway or front room takes up space and might look rather strange to your friends or landlord.


      There is a way to do this that is easy to set up and takes little space and little explanation to visitors. You will need: An old blanket, a pole or narrow board to hang it over, a doorway or hall and some soft plastic small game blunts or combat blunts. The basic idea is that you hang a old blanket, with no holes in it, over a horizontal pole, so that there is a double layer. You hang the pole in a door or hall way. You then remove the target point from one arrow and replace it with a blunt, step back about six feet from the blanket, nock and draw your arrow, loose and watch the arrow strike the blanket and fall to the floor at your feet.


      First the blanket. Any blanket with a close weave will do. I would not recommend one of the thermal blankets with a loose weave. And it should not be too heavy, the arrow should be able to lose energy gradually by moving the blanket backward.


      Next you need a means to suspend the blanket. One way to do this is to use one of the expanding shower curtain rods. Just be sure that it will fit in your door or hall way. This can also be set up in a garage or outdoors if convenient.

      If your door or hallway is too narrow for the shower rod, you can get two small screw hooks and place them in the top of your doorway and hang a length of plastic pipe, a wooden 1 by 2 inch board or whatever is convenient, which is a little more narrow than your doorway from cord. You should hang the support pole as high as possible so that your arrow will hit nearer the center of the fabric. This is because if your arrow strikes too near the top there is not enough movement to absorb the energy of the arrow. You should fold the fabric over the pole so that it hangs about equally on both sides. This provides more weight for the arrow to move and affords protection if you should wear a hole in the front layer. To prevent wearing a hole in the blanket you should change sides each time you hang it up.


      You will need to purchase some blunt tips. The 3/4 inch diameter HTM small game blunts can be found at most bows shops or on line. They are close in weight to a field tip and will cause only little change to the feel and balance of your arrow as you nock it. If you have an arrow in your set that does not group well with the others, you may use it by removing the metal point. If the shaft was tapered under the point you will need to cut it flat. This will cause a shorting of the shaft by about a half inch. If you want to keep the exact length you may need to purchase a new arrow without a point and then measure and cut it to the correct length. Glue and/or tape the blunt on so that there is no chance of it coming off. You can use an arrow that is not closely matched in spine or weight to your target set for this, but it should match in length and nock type so that the feel of handling it will remain the same.


      I shall not go into what is correct form, for that is not the purpose of this article. If you want information on form there are many available books and videos on the subject as well as experienced archers that can assist you.


      If you want to practice your form for combat archery you can just use an existing combat arrow. But, you should wear your helmet and hand protection while practicing so you will be able to have your anchor in the appropriate place and so that the handling the bow and the arrow will be the same as in combat. You should also shoot from the different stances that you would use in combat after you have settled your basic form.


      You should shoot no more than three arrows in a row so that you take the time to think about how you are shooting and do not get into a rut where you are not analyzing what you are doing. You can make up a full set of arrows with the blunts and they can be used to practice speed shooting for timed ends such as are used in the R. R. or I.K.A.C. .


      In this style of practice you are not trying to hit a specific point, you are trying to improve and practice good form. You should concentrate on your: Stance, draw, anchor, release and follow through. You should not think about hitting a particular point. In fact you may find that it works best for you to close your eyes and just use your mind's eye for part of the practice.


      The main point of this is, that you have no distraction of trying to hit the target. You concentrate only on improving your form and its consistency. You need to go through your own mental check off list point by point from stance to follow through. Just as often happens in target shooting on the field, you will learn to know by the feel when you have put everything together correctly and know the arrow would be going into the gold as soon as you release. After each shot, you should stop and review what you have done before picking up the arrow and shooting again.




      This works best for archers that already have the basics of shooting learned correctly. If you are just beginning to learn to shoot you need a knowledgeable archer to observe your shooting and correct any errors in form or technique. For you do not want to practice and ingrain poor form or technique.


      If possible, place the blanket so that when you are in front of it, you can see yourself in a mirror on the string hand side and observe your form. This will be most helpful for part of the practice. What is also very useful, if you have one, is a video camera. You can place it on a tripod to tape your entire practice from the string hand side. You can then play back the entire practice and observe your form and learn where it may need improvement.


      This also has the side benefit of keeping your shooting muscles in condition so that you will not get out of shape over the winter or tire when shooting in long competitions.


      However, if you have the space inside your dwelling so that you can get further from the blanket, if you wish, you can shoot at a very small target object placed on the blanket. This should be done after you have put in your full time with the target-less practice.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carl West
      ... I ve done this using a strip of heavy canvas that had been an army tarp long before. A blanket would probably be quieter than canvas (which made rather a
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 26 11:09 PM
        John Edgertom wrote:
        >
        > The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.
        >
        > ...
        > First the blanket. Any blanket with a close weave will do. I would not recommend one of the thermal blankets with a loose weave. And it should not be too heavy, the arrow should be able to lose energy gradually by moving the blanket backward.
        > ...


        I've done this using a strip of heavy canvas that had been an army tarp long before. A blanket would probably be quieter than canvas (which made rather a thwok! when hit) a worthy consideration if you need to concern yourself with roommates or neighbors.

        - Fritz

        --
        Carl West eisen@... http://eisen.home.attbi.com

        I have no superfluous leisure; my stay must be stolen out
        of other affairs; but I will attend you awhile.

        - Isabella, Measure for Measure, Act 3 Scene 1
      • John Edgertom
        Yes. I had tried simular cloth and it was also noisy. Packing blanket is also quiet, but heavy. Jon ... From: Carl West To:
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 26 11:11 PM
          Yes. I had tried simular cloth and it was also noisy. Packing blanket is
          also quiet, but heavy.

          Jon

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Carl West" <eisen@...>
          To: <SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:09 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] draft article.. comments?


          > John Edgertom wrote:
          > >
          > > The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you
          have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.
          > >
          > > ...
          > > First the blanket. Any blanket with a close weave will do. I would not
          recommend one of the thermal blankets with a loose weave. And it should not
          be too heavy, the arrow should be able to lose energy gradually by moving
          the blanket backward.
          > > ...
          >
          >
          > I've done this using a strip of heavy canvas that had been an army tarp
          long before. A blanket would probably be quieter than canvas (which made
          rather a thwok! when hit) a worthy consideration if you need to concern
          yourself with roommates or neighbors.
          >
          > - Fritz
          >
          > --
          > Carl West eisen@... http://eisen.home.attbi.com
          >
        • Carolus Eulenhorst
          Looks good to me.In service to the dream Carolus von Eulenhorst eulenhorst@juno.comOn Sat, 26 Oct 2002 22:27:21 -0700 John Edgertom
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 27 1:07 AM
            Looks good to me.

            In service to the dream
            Carolus von Eulenhorst
            eulenhorst@...

            On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 22:27:21 -0700 John Edgertom <sirjon1@...>
            writes:
            > The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If
            > you have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.
            >
            > Thank you
            >
            > Jon

            ________________________________________________________________
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          • Bruce R. Gordon
            Greetings A useful and effectively written article. I will certainly preserve a copy of it in my own files. I can see some potential problems for crossbowmen,
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 27 3:10 AM
              Greetings
              A useful and effectively written article. I will certainly
              preserve a copy of it in my own files.
              I can see some potential problems for crossbowmen, since a bird
              blunt would drastically alter or in some cases even render inoperable
              some configurations, depending on bolt length.
              A grammatical quibble - the following sentence...

              In some Eastern countries beginning archers might spend months just
              practicing their: Stance, bow grip, nocking the arrow, drawing, holding
              and release before ever shooting at a target.

              ...would be better expressed thusly...

              In some Eastern countries beginning archers might spend months just
              practicing their stance, bow grip, nocking, drawing, holding, and
              release before ever shooting at a target.

              Cordially;
              Nigel FitzMaurice (Mid)

              --
              Ex Tenebra, Lux

              http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/index.html
            • Simon Hondy
              First thought is DOH! should have thought of that before! Did not know the history behind this idea. My other idea is a word of caution, watch those bow
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 27 3:45 AM
                First thought is DOH! should have thought of that before! Did not know the
                history behind this idea. My other idea is a word of caution, watch those
                bow tips on the ceiling! At the local indoor range, it is small and to one
                side the ceiling is lower. I have quite the collection growing there of
                scuff marks in the overhead.

                Thank you! Off to talk my Lady out of one of her extra bird blunts from her
                fencing kit,
                Simon Hondy


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "John Edgertom" <sirjon1@...>
                To: "archery" <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:27 PM
                Subject: [SCA-Archery] draft article.. comments?


                > The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you
                have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.
                >
                > Thank you
                >
                > Jon
                > *****************************************************************
              • MCARTHUR JAMES
                Hello, Simon! Yes, ceilings at indoor ranges can be a problem. I ve broken 3 arrows that way. More importantly, arrow bounce back can be a danger. William
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 27 7:44 AM
                  Hello, Simon!

                  Yes, ceilings at indoor ranges can be a problem. I've broken 3 arrows that way. More importantly, arrow bounce back can be a danger.

                  William


                  Simon Hondy <scholari@...> wrote:First thought is DOH! should have thought of that before! Did not know the
                  history behind this idea. My other idea is a word of caution, watch those
                  bow tips on the ceiling! At the local indoor range, it is small and to one
                  side the ceiling is lower. I have quite the collection growing there of
                  scuff marks in the overhead.

                  Thank you! Off to talk my Lady out of one of her extra bird blunts from her
                  fencing kit,
                  Simon Hondy


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "John Edgertom"
                  To: "archery"
                  Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:27 PM
                  Subject: [SCA-Archery] draft article.. comments?


                  > The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you
                  have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.
                  >
                  > Thank you
                  >
                  > Jon
                  > *****************************************************************




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                • John Edgerton
                  ... I had intended it mostly for handbows. But as you say, it would still work with a longer bolt. ... Good. I will change that. Thanks Jon
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 27 1:18 PM
                    Bruce R. Gordon wrote:

                    >Greetings
                    > A useful and effectively written article. I will certainly
                    >preserve a copy of it in my own files.
                    > I can see some potential problems for crossbowmen, since a bird
                    >blunt would drastically alter or in some cases even render inoperable
                    >some configurations, depending on bolt length.
                    > A grammatical quibble - the following sentence...
                    >
                    I had intended it mostly for handbows. But as you say, it would still
                    work with a longer bolt.

                    >
                    >In some Eastern countries beginning archers might spend months just
                    >practicing their: Stance, bow grip, nocking the arrow, drawing, holding
                    >and release before ever shooting at a target.
                    >
                    > ...would be better expressed thusly...
                    >
                    >In some Eastern countries beginning archers might spend months just
                    >practicing their stance, bow grip, nocking, drawing, holding, and
                    >release before ever shooting at a target.
                    >
                    Good. I will change that.

                    Thanks

                    Jon

                    >
                    >Cordially;
                    >Nigel FitzMaurice (Mid)
                    >
                  • John Edgerton
                    ... Thanks. I will add that warning. Jon ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 27 1:21 PM
                      Simon Hondy wrote:

                      >First thought is DOH! should have thought of that before! Did not know the
                      >history behind this idea. My other idea is a word of caution, watch those
                      >bow tips on the ceiling! At the local indoor range, it is small and to one
                      >side the ceiling is lower. I have quite the collection growing there of
                      >scuff marks in the overhead.
                      >
                      Thanks. I will add that warning.

                      Jon

                      >
                      >Thank you! Off to talk my Lady out of one of her extra bird blunts from her
                      >fencing kit,
                      >Simon Hondy
                      >
                      >
                      >----- Original Message -----
                      >From: "John Edgertom" <sirjon1@...>
                      >To: "archery" <sca-archery@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:27 PM
                      >Subject: [SCA-Archery] draft article.. comments?
                      >
                      >
                      >>The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you
                      >>
                      >have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.
                      >
                      >>Thank you
                      >>
                      >>Jon
                      >>*****************************************************************
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >---8<---------------------------------------------
                      >Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                      >Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                      >
                      >[Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Joe Hopkins
                      Jon, The article conveys a great deal of information useful to the archery community. Especially those who live in areas where Winter brings an end to the use
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 28 7:07 AM
                        Jon,
                        The article conveys a great deal of information useful to the archery community. Especially those who live in areas where Winter brings an end to the use of outdoor archery ranges.
                        In friendship and service,
                        Sagan
                        Earl Marshall, Artemisia

                        John Edgertom <sirjon1@...> wrote:The following is a first draft of an short article I am writing. If you have any suggestions or questions I would be glad to see them.

                        Thank you

                        Jon
                        *****************************************************************



                        TARGET-LESS PRACTICE

                        by

                        Sir Jon Fitz-Rauf, West

                        O. L., O.P., R.C.A., R.C.Y.


                        It is often difficult for archers to find a place to practice their archery skills at home since many of us do not have fields, large back yards or driveways to use or we can not go outside to shoot because of inclement weather. However, there is a way to practice, improve your skills and stay in condition even if you live in a small apartment in town.


                        In the past and even today, handbow archers in the Near to Far East, as well as the West have made use of tightly packed straw and other materials as a backstop for their arrows while practicing their form. In Arabic countries this was called a torba and in Japan it was called a makiwara. This is done up close and without a target at which to aim. In some Eastern countries beginning archers might spend months just practicing their: Stance, bow grip, nocking the arrow, drawing, holding and release before ever shooting at a target. This practice was often done only five or six feet from the surface that was stopping their arrows.


                        One of the major keys to accurate shooting is consistency. If your grip, draw, anchor or release vary from shot to shot, then where your arrows strikes will also vary. To obtain consistency you must learn correct form and practice it. You should try to practice at least three times per week and if possible once a day. You should try for a hour a day, either in a straight hour or in two or three shorter segments that add up to at least an hour. However, if you only have a chance to practice once or twice a month, you will be a long time in achieving consistency and thereby accuracy. Archery is so much more fun if you can hit what you are aiming at, at least part of the time.


                        One of the methods used in Eastern countries was a barrel filled with tightly packed straw. This was placed on a stand so the center of the open front of the barrel was at the shoulder lever of the archer's shoulder, then the arrows were shot into this, pulled and shot again and again. Current Western practice of the same technique sometimes makes use of a target mat or a bag or cardboard box packed firmly with old plastic trash or grocery bags. These can stop target or hunting arrows from even heavy bows and you can easily remove the arrows from the material. However, setting something like this up in your hallway or front room takes up space and might look rather strange to your friends or landlord.


                        There is a way to do this that is easy to set up and takes little space and little explanation to visitors. You will need: An old blanket, a pole or narrow board to hang it over, a doorway or hall and some soft plastic small game blunts or combat blunts. The basic idea is that you hang a old blanket, with no holes in it, over a horizontal pole, so that there is a double layer. You hang the pole in a door or hall way. You then remove the target point from one arrow and replace it with a blunt, step back about six feet from the blanket, nock and draw your arrow, loose and watch the arrow strike the blanket and fall to the floor at your feet.


                        First the blanket. Any blanket with a close weave will do. I would not recommend one of the thermal blankets with a loose weave. And it should not be too heavy, the arrow should be able to lose energy gradually by moving the blanket backward.


                        Next you need a means to suspend the blanket. One way to do this is to use one of the expanding shower curtain rods. Just be sure that it will fit in your door or hall way. This can also be set up in a garage or outdoors if convenient.

                        If your door or hallway is too narrow for the shower rod, you can get two small screw hooks and place them in the top of your doorway and hang a length of plastic pipe, a wooden 1 by 2 inch board or whatever is convenient, which is a little more narrow than your doorway from cord. You should hang the support pole as high as possible so that your arrow will hit nearer the center of the fabric. This is because if your arrow strikes too near the top there is not enough movement to absorb the energy of the arrow. You should fold the fabric over the pole so that it hangs about equally on both sides. This provides more weight for the arrow to move and affords protection if you should wear a hole in the front layer. To prevent wearing a hole in the blanket you should change sides each time you hang it up.


                        You will need to purchase some blunt tips. The 3/4 inch diameter HTM small game blunts can be found at most bows shops or on line. They are close in weight to a field tip and will cause only little change to the feel and balance of your arrow as you nock it. If you have an arrow in your set that does not group well with the others, you may use it by removing the metal point. If the shaft was tapered under the point you will need to cut it flat. This will cause a shorting of the shaft by about a half inch. If you want to keep the exact length you may need to purchase a new arrow without a point and then measure and cut it to the correct length. Glue and/or tape the blunt on so that there is no chance of it coming off. You can use an arrow that is not closely matched in spine or weight to your target set for this, but it should match in length and nock type so that the feel of handling it will remain the same.


                        I shall not go into what is correct form, for that is not the purpose of this article. If you want information on form there are many available books and videos on the subject as well as experienced archers that can assist you.


                        If you want to practice your form for combat archery you can just use an existing combat arrow. But, you should wear your helmet and hand protection while practicing so you will be able to have your anchor in the appropriate place and so that the handling the bow and the arrow will be the same as in combat. You should also shoot from the different stances that you would use in combat after you have settled your basic form.


                        You should shoot no more than three arrows in a row so that you take the time to think about how you are shooting and do not get into a rut where you are not analyzing what you are doing. You can make up a full set of arrows with the blunts and they can be used to practice speed shooting for timed ends such as are used in the R. R. or I.K.A.C. .


                        In this style of practice you are not trying to hit a specific point, you are trying to improve and practice good form. You should concentrate on your: Stance, draw, anchor, release and follow through. You should not think about hitting a particular point. In fact you may find that it works best for you to close your eyes and just use your mind's eye for part of the practice.


                        The main point of this is, that you have no distraction of trying to hit the target. You concentrate only on improving your form and its consistency. You need to go through your own mental check off list point by point from stance to follow through. Just as often happens in target shooting on the field, you will learn to know by the feel when you have put everything together correctly and know the arrow would be going into the gold as soon as you release. After each shot, you should stop and review what you have done before picking up the arrow and shooting again.




                        This works best for archers that already have the basics of shooting learned correctly. If you are just beginning to learn to shoot you need a knowledgeable archer to observe your shooting and correct any errors in form or technique. For you do not want to practice and ingrain poor form or technique.


                        If possible, place the blanket so that when you are in front of it, you can see yourself in a mirror on the string hand side and observe your form. This will be most helpful for part of the practice. What is also very useful, if you have one, is a video camera. You can place it on a tripod to tape your entire practice from the string hand side. You can then play back the entire practice and observe your form and learn where it may need improvement.


                        This also has the side benefit of keeping your shooting muscles in condition so that you will not get out of shape over the winter or tire when shooting in long competitions.


                        However, if you have the space inside your dwelling so that you can get further from the blanket, if you wish, you can shoot at a very small target object placed on the blanket. This should be done after you have put in your full time with the target-less practice.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                        ---8<---------------------------------------------
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Nest verch Tangwistel
                        Does anyone on this list have any experience with bows made by Saxon. They are advertised Here:
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 28 7:15 AM
                          Does anyone on this list have any experience with bows made by Saxon. They
                          are advertised Here:

                          http://ns1.bowsite.org/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=6&User_ID=119031&st=6562&st2=75083016&st3=31873084&CATID=3&ObjectGroup_ID=9

                          Sorry about the broken URL. You may have to cut and paste.

                          Or the Great plains bows.

                          http://www.bowsite2.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=15&CATID=61&ObjectGroup_ID=221

                          Nest

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                        • John Edgerton
                          Thank you. I hope it will be useful. My first thoughts on it were just for those without available space, it was not till the end of writing it that it even
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 30 9:01 AM
                            Thank you. I hope it will be useful. My first thoughts on it were just
                            for those without available space, it was not till the end of writing it
                            that it even occurred to me that it would also be useful in the winter
                            for those that live in snowy areas. A hard thought for a Californian to
                            grasp.

                            Jon

                            Joe Hopkins wrote:

                            >Jon,
                            >The article conveys a great deal of information useful to the archery community. Especially those who live in areas where Winter brings an end to the use of outdoor archery ranges.
                            >In friendship and service,
                            >Sagan
                            >Earl Marshall, Artemisia
                            >
                          • Carolus Eulenhorst
                            Snow?? What s snow? Even harder for a Southern Californian living in the desert. We even have a problem with rain. Things here go from dust to mud in a
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 30 11:39 PM
                              Snow?? What's snow? Even harder for a Southern Californian living in
                              the desert. We even have a problem with rain. Things here go from dust
                              to mud in a heartbeat.

                              In service to the dream
                              Carolus von Eulenhorst
                              eulenhorst@...

                              On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:01:11 -0800 John Edgerton <sirjon1@...>
                              writes:
                              > Thank you. I hope it will be useful. My first thoughts on it were
                              > just
                              > for those without available space, it was not till the end of
                              > writing it
                              > that it even occurred to me that it would also be useful in the
                              > winter
                              > for those that live in snowy areas. A hard thought for a Californian
                              > to
                              > grasp.
                              >
                              > Jon

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                            • Deedee L Cole
                              Sir Jon, One additional method of hanging (which I only thought of because the previous owners of my house left it behind :) is a chin-up bar. These bars are
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 4, 2002
                                Sir Jon,

                                One additional method of hanging (which I only thought of because the
                                previous
                                owners of my house left it behind :) is a chin-up bar.
                                These bars are designed to fit in a doorway for use for doing
                                chin-ups/pull-ups/etc....
                                Seems to work great for holding other things too.

                                Dealla
                              • John Edgerton
                                Good idea. Thanks Jon
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 4, 2002
                                  Good idea. Thanks

                                  Jon

                                  Deedee L Cole wrote:

                                  >Sir Jon,
                                  >
                                  > One additional method of hanging (which I only thought of because the
                                  >previous
                                  >owners of my house left it behind :) is a chin-up bar.
                                  >These bars are designed to fit in a doorway for use for doing
                                  >chin-ups/pull-ups/etc....
                                  >Seems to work great for holding other things too.
                                  >
                                  >Dealla
                                  >
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