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Re: [SCA-Archery] Wooden Arrows , Notches,Combat Arrows

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  • Harry Bilings
    Some of this is easer to demonstrate than describe. In what Kingdom/city do you live? plachoya ... humble archer Ravens Fort Ansteorra
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 6, 2002
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      Some of this is easer to demonstrate than describe. In what Kingdom/city do
      you live?
      plachoya

      >Greetings M'Lords and M'Ladies
      >
      >May the Wind be in your Face and the Sun be on your Back
      >
      >I havn't picked up a bow for over twenty years now I find myself now
      >I find myself learning all over again. I have a couple of questions,
      >as of now, proably a lot more later.
      >
      >The is more of a 'how to' query. I've started to make my own arrows
      >but I've run into a problem with the notches. How is the notched
      >carved into the arrow shaft so it won't fall of the string?
      >
      >Combat Arrows
      >
      >I've seen the examples of 'legal' arrows used for SCA combat. I have
      >seen one from a distance. The fletching part seems simple enough and
      >so does the 'tip' but how is the tip attached to the shaft?
      >
      >Any information would be helpful, Yours- Raven of Armstrong
      >



      humble archer
      Ravens Fort Ansteorra


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    • blockflute1@aol.com
      I carve my nocks with parallel sides 1/8 inch wide and 3/8 deep and I dont have any problems. I use a 1/8 inch ceramic cutoff wheel mounted in my drill press.
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 6, 2002
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        I carve my nocks with parallel sides 1/8 inch wide and 3/8 deep and I dont
        have any problems. I use a 1/8 inch ceramic cutoff wheel mounted in my drill
        press. The stelle is inserted in a hole the jig I made for this purpose
        which is clamped to the drill press table and pushed carefully into the wheel
        until the slot is deep enough.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Keith Hood
        ... If you use a nock point on the string, just hold the nock against the nock point. If you want your nock point to be more period than a modern swaged nock
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 6, 2002
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          >
          >The is more of a 'how to' query. I've started to make my own arrows
          >but I've run into a problem with the notches. How is the notched
          >carved into the arrow shaft so it won't fall of the string?
          >

          If you use a nock point on the string, just hold the nock against the nock point. If you want your nock point to be more period than a modern swaged nock point, tie a piece of string around the bowstring at the right place and trim off the loose ends. This is a heck of a lot easier than trying to carve a hold nock.

          If you still want to make your own hold nocks and you have power tools you can do this: drill a hole through the shaft about 1/4 in from the end of the shaft. Use a drill press--DON'T try to drill this by hand. Then cut a slot from that hole to the end of the shaft. Just make the hole diameter slightly smaller than the string, and it will be tight enough to hold the nock in place if you let the arrow slip off the bow, but the force involved in loosing will be enough to snap the string loose. You may have to experiment to find the correct hole diameter. You have to be REAL careful during drilling and cutting to hold the shaft still. And of course, you have to make sure both the drilled hole and the slot are properly aligned with the nock feather.



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Godwin fitzGilbert
          ... -snip- ... From the way you state this, I will (I know it s bad but...) assume that you use pinch nocks. I would start practicing with mercury nocks (or
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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            --- In SCA-Archery@y..., "Terrence Andre Payette" <shaman@s...> wrote:
            -snip-
            >
            > The is more of a 'how to' query. I've started to make my own arrows
            > but I've run into a problem with the notches. How is the notched
            > carved into the arrow shaft so it won't fall of the string?
            >

            From the way you state this, I will (I know it's bad but...) assume
            that you use pinch nocks. I would start practicing with mercury nocks
            (or quick nocks) first. That may save you some frustration with your
            self nocked arrows.
            All I use is the mercury nock, so stepping over to the self-nock is
            not an issue as far as method goes. In training myself for when I
            actually get to start shooting my self nocks, I also disregard (or
            just file off) any index tab that the nock might have, so that I rely
            on the cock feather and 'feel' to get the arrow 'on' right.

            Godwin
          • hanhebin
            ... I do something very similar here but with unpowered tools. I have found that with as much shooting as I do my hand cut nocks do break. In order to
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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              > I carve my nocks with parallel sides 1/8 inch wide and 3/8 deep and
              > I dont have any problems. I use a 1/8 inch ceramic cutoff wheel
              > mounted in my drill press. The stelle is inserted in a hole the
              > jig I made for this purpose which is clamped to the drill press
              > table and pushed carefully into the wheel until the slot is deep
              > enough.

              I do something very similar here but with unpowered tools. I have
              found that with as much shooting as I do my hand cut nocks do break.
              In order to strengthen my nocks here is what I do:

              1) I narrow the shaft between the nock and all the way to where the
              end of my feathers will go. Because I frequently stagger my
              fletching you may want to use a pencil to get this line correct.

              2) I get some fresh kill elk, deer or cowhide (elk is the best) and I
              cut it exceptionally thin. This takes practice and much more
              patience than I usually have. Thin means thin and I cut my hides
              thinner than garden twine.

              NOTE: I have found the best place to get hide cheap is go to a
              facility that destroyes old animals (aka Glue Factory).
              Usually you can end up enough hide for a few dozen arrows
              and pay nothing. Bring plenty of plastic bags because these
              hides will be fresh kill.

              3) I soak the hide in water. I add a little salt to make the water
              brinelike and heat the water to about 120 degrees.

              NOTE: I recommend you get a digital flue thermometer. Taylor or
              Cooper sell these for around $10 at any hardware store. You
              will need to watch the thread because too much heat for too
              long will weaken your thread.

              4) I tuck the end of the hide thread down about 1/2" down my narrowed
              shaft down where my index feather will be and I wrap over the
              thread down all the way to where my nock begins. The last quarter
              of the distance I losely wrap the hide so I can tuck the other end
              back through the wraps. Then I carefully slide my end of the hide
              thread through the wrap and tighten one loop at a time until you
              cannot see where I hid my ends.

              NOTE: I would recommend that you practice this with something
              other than animal hide because I made too many mistakes
              learning the technique. I am still slow at making hide
              thread it will save you more than a few headaches.

              5) I place the thread over my heating duck and let the air blow dry
              the wet hide. This will cause the hide to shrink and will
              reinforce the shaft.

              NOTE: This technique was used for building when metal nails were
              not available and there are plenty of old books documenting
              the technique.


              Once you get this technique down, try making a longer thread and
              wrapping your fletching with the same thread. Makes a wonderful
              looking arrow although you need to be shooting 50#+ to make the arrow
              fly right.

              Michael
            • blockflute1@aol.com
              To strengthen the nocks I cut I use a 1/16 inch ceramic cutoff wheel and cut a notch 90 degrees from the string notch (I do this before I cut the string nock)
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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                To strengthen the nocks I cut I use a 1/16 inch ceramic cutoff wheel and cut
                a notch 90 degrees from the string notch (I do this before I cut the string
                nock) and glue in a slice of horn (1/16 micarta) and sand it down flush with
                the surface once cured. Then I cut the string nock.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Guy Taylor
                Just in case you want to use real horn... I get mine from knife supply catalogs. Water buffalo horn already slabbed for knife handles. It s easy to cut
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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                  Just in case you want to use real horn...
                  I get mine from knife supply catalogs. Water buffalo horn already slabbed
                  for knife handles. It's easy to cut slices for nock inserts.
                  Here's one source:
                  http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/water_buffalo_horn_1516448.htm

                  Taillear



                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: blockflute1@... [mailto:blockflute1@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:19 AM
                  > To: SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Wooden Arrows , Notches,Combat Arrows
                  >
                  >
                  > To strengthen the nocks I cut I use a 1/16 inch ceramic cutoff
                  > wheel and cut
                  > a notch 90 degrees from the string notch (I do this before I cut
                  > the string
                  > nock) and glue in a slice of horn (1/16 micarta) and sand it down
                  > flush with
                  > the surface once cured. Then I cut the string nock.

                  >
                • jameswolfden
                  For inserts in self-nocks, I like purpleheart wood for its contrasting colour. I use a two or three hacksaws to cut the insert slot and the nock slot. I use a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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                    For inserts in self-nocks, I like purpleheart wood for its
                    contrasting colour. I use a two or three hacksaws to cut the insert
                    slot and the nock slot. I use a table saw to cut off the purpleheart
                    inserts.

                    James Wolfden
                  • archer3@webtv.net
                    To reinforce my self nocks I use linen thread tied in a temporary whipping and finished with a square knot, providing me with an index. Not as permanent as an
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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                      To reinforce my self nocks I use linen thread tied in a temporary
                      whipping and finished with a square knot, providing me with an index.
                      Not as permanent as an insert, but if it comes off I only need about six
                      or seven inches of thread and about 30 seconds. I position the wrap to
                      where it finishes around 3/16 forward of the nock.

                      Damian >>~~~>
                    • hanhebin
                      ... For range arrows I cheat and use Dynaflight 97 instead of animal hide. Is more durable than thread and I have enough colors that depending on how I stain
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 7, 2002
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                        > To reinforce my self nocks I use linen thread tied in a temporary
                        > whipping and finished with a square knot, providing me with an
                        > index. Not as permanent as an insert, but if it comes off I only
                        > need about six or seven inches of thread and about 30 seconds. I
                        > position the wrap to where it finishes around 3/16 forward of the
                        > nock.

                        For range arrows I cheat and use Dynaflight 97 instead of animal
                        hide. Is more durable than thread and I have enough colors that
                        depending on how I stain my shafts I can always get the wrapping to
                        stand out.

                        Michael
                      • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                        Greetings... For the Ya that I use for Makiwara and for regular free flight target practice, I have been using regular deer antler. I shape the nock and use a
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 8, 2002
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                          Greetings...
                          For the Ya that I use for Makiwara and for regular free flight target
                          practice, I have been using regular deer antler. I shape the nock
                          and use a drill press of slightly smaller diamater than my string,
                          then slot it with a hand saw and a jig. The knock has a tang,
                          much like an arrow head, that gets fitted into a hole drilled out in
                          the back end of the Ya (like an arrow head).
                          I reenforce the wood around the base of the nock with silk thread
                          for thirty turns. Then I lacquer the thread and let it harden. Since I
                          am using turkey feathers to fletch, I have chosen a brown thread
                          to compliment the fletching and shaft, but I suppose any color
                          would be good...
                          I have made a matched set of twenty of these Ya for both
                          makiwara and free flight, and have been happy with their results.
                          When I can afford 20 bamboo shafts I will do the same, but for
                          now, I must use what is available. I have a steel turning lathe that
                          I sometimes press into wood-working service...but you will have
                          that...

                          Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
                          Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equall in the grave...
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