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archery books online

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  • Elizabeth Lear
    I m not sure this has been mentioned before, but here it is - the following archery books are online at this url:
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 6, 2002
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      I'm not sure this has been mentioned before, but here it is - the
      following archery books are online at this url:

      http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcelo/archery/library/books/

      * How to train in Archery
      Being a Complete Study of The York Round
      By Maurice and Will H. Thompson, 1879

      * Badminton Library of Sports: Archery
      By C.J. Longman and Col. H. Walrond, 1894.

      * The English Bowman
      By T. Roberts, 1801.

      * The Book of Archery
      Being the complete history and practice of the art, ancient and modern.
      By George Agar Hansard, 1841.

      * The Archer's Guide
      By An Old Toxophilite, 1833.


      -Yeliz
    • Nest verch Tangwistel
      Greetings all, I am going to run an arrow making workshop in my local shire. Now I have no problem with the arrows, but I have had a couple of people ask about
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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        Greetings all,

        I am going to run an arrow making workshop in my local shire. Now I have
        no problem with the arrows, but I have had a couple of people ask about
        making crossbow bolts. I have never worked with corssbows so I don't know
        where to begin.

        I looked through the archives on this list and came across plenty of info,
        but I just want to clarify a few things. The spine of the bolt is not that
        important? Somehow that goes against common sense. One of the people
        asking says last time he got bolts many of them split. My immediate
        reaction would be the spine was too light. If that is not true what else
        would have caused them to split? could the grain have been lined up wrong?
        Is there anything else to think about to keep them from splitting?

        what about the length of the bolt? How should we determine best length
        from any given crossbow?

        What about the number of fletchings? Is 3 easier to deal with than 2? Are
        there some crossbows which can only take one or the other?

        Obviously I don't know much about crossbow bolt construction. I would
        really appreciate any advice you all have to give me.

        Anyway the list has been too quiet lately.

        Nest

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      • wyvern@megahits.com
        ... The shorter the bolt, the stiffer it is regardless of standard spine measurements. Unless you start off with a really light spined raw shaft and make a
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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          On 22 Oct 2002 at 5:45, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:

          > I looked through the archives on this list and came across plenty of
          > info, but I just want to clarify a few things. The spine of the bolt
          > is not that important? Somehow that goes against common sense. One of

          The shorter the bolt, the stiffer it is regardless of standard spine
          measurements. Unless you start off with a really light spined raw shaft
          and make a pretty long bolt, it isn't an issue. In general, diameter is a
          bigger factor in bolts than spine. (Caveat: for long bolts, a reasonably
          stiff spine is still a good idea, but it's not a critical issue like it would be
          for arrows.)

          > the people asking says last time he got bolts many of them split. My
          > immediate reaction would be the spine was too light. If that is not
          > true what else would have caused them to split? could the grain have
          > been lined up wrong? Is there anything else to think about to keep
          > them from splitting?

          The grain is the first thing I'd check. It should be at right angles to the
          string. Some fletchers will leave a ring around the butt as a
          reinforcement as well. (When you make bolts, one method is to make
          them with a nock in order to use a fletching jig to align the flights.
          Afterwards, you can either cut off the whole knock end _or_ cut off most
          of the nock leaving a plastic ring around the end of the bolt.)

          Another thing to look at is diameter. If the string is not lying along the
          center of the bolt's butt, it can tend to jump over or under the bolt
          causing a misfire. If it's off center, but not enough to misfire, it may still
          be applying force to a narrower section of the bolt increasing the
          likelihood of bolt damage. (The number of servings on the string is a
          factor here also as it effects how high the string sits on the shelf.)

          > what about the length of the bolt? How should we determine best length
          > from any given crossbow?

          It's largely a matter of personal preference and a question of how you
          shoot and what you shoot at. Commonly, bolts range from 12" to 20".
          Here are some factors to consider:

          Being the cheap SOB that I am, I generally make my short bolts from
          15" or less shafts so I can get two from each raw shaft. Longer bolts
          are often recycled from arrows that have broken off tips and are too
          short for my bow.

          Longer bolts tend to be more accurate but slower to load and vice
          versa. Also, unless you use a spring to hold down your bolts, they'll
          tend to tip off the end of the shelf if they're to long.

          Most people who use sights will use the tip of the bolt as their front
          sight and make adjust ments to bolt length as a means of adjusting their
          sight picture. This technique is useful, but not for the faint of heart. It
          takes a *lot* of tweaking to find just the right length to make this work
          and there's no guarantee it'll still work from one bowstring to the next.

          > What about the number of fletchings? Is 3 easier to deal with than 2?
          > Are there some crossbows which can only take one or the other?

          Three fletch tends to be more accurate but is also slower to load and
          requires a grooved shelf to use. Two fletch is slightly less accurate, but
          loads very quickly on any shelf.

          > Obviously I don't know much about crossbow bolt construction. I would
          > really appreciate any advice you all have to give me.

          You're asking all the right questions. =)

          YIS,
          Macsen
        • Carolus Eulenhorst
          Make sure you are using a good arrow wood like douglas fir, chundoo, or port orford cedar for your bolts. There are others as well including hardwoods but
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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            Make sure you are using a good arrow wood like douglas fir, chundoo, or
            port orford cedar for your bolts. There are others as well including
            hardwoods but these should have the dowels drawn by the arrowmaker from
            raw stock. Many times people make bolts from hardwood dowels and these
            often have flaws in their grain structure which cause the bolts to split
            under stress.. Bolt length is a matter of experimentation for each
            archer, each crossbow, and how the crossbow is set up. No rule of thumb
            there. Spine is not a factor as the bolt doesn't have to flex around the
            bow on release. For a basic class, stick to two fletch bolts - options
            being straight (with or without angle) or helical.

            In service to the dream
            Carolus von Eulenhorst
            eulenhorst@...

            On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Nest verch Tangwistel
            <eastarch@...> writes:
            > Greetings all,
            >
            > I am going to run an arrow making workshop in my local shire. Now I
            > have
            > no problem with the arrows, but I have had a couple of people ask
            > about
            > making crossbow bolts. I have never worked with crossbows so I don't
            > know
            > where to begin.
            >
            > I looked through the archives on this list and came across plenty of
            > info,
            > but I just want to clarify a few things. The spine of the bolt is
            > not that
            > important? Somehow that goes against common sense. One of the
            > people
            > asking says last time he got bolts many of them split. My immediate
            > reaction would be the spine was too light. If that is not true what
            > else
            > would have caused them to split? could the grain have been lined up
            > wrong?
            > Is there anything else to think about to keep them from splitting?
            >
            > what about the length of the bolt? How should we determine best
            > length
            > from any given crossbow?
            >
            > What about the number of fletchings? Is 3 easier to deal with than
            > 2? Are
            > there some crossbows which can only take one or the other?
            >
            > Obviously I don't know much about crossbow bolt construction. I
            > would
            > really appreciate any advice you all have to give me.
            >
            > Anyway the list has been too quiet lately.
            >
            > Nest

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          • Nest verch Tangwistel
            Excellent. Thank you very much. Finally what about points? Can I use the same tips as I do on arrows? Nest ...
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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              Excellent. Thank you very much.

              Finally what about points? Can I use the same tips as I do on arrows?

              Nest
              --- wyvern@... wrote:
              > On 22 Oct 2002 at 5:45, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:
              >
              > > I looked through the archives on this list and came across plenty of
              > > info, but I just want to clarify a few things. The spine of the bolt
              > > is not that important? Somehow that goes against common sense. One of
              >
              > The shorter the bolt, the stiffer it is regardless of standard spine
              > measurements. Unless you start off with a really light spined raw shaft
              >
              > and make a pretty long bolt, it isn't an issue. In general, diameter is
              > a
              > bigger factor in bolts than spine. (Caveat: for long bolts, a
              > reasonably
              > stiff spine is still a good idea, but it's not a critical issue like it
              > would be
              > for arrows.)
              >
              > > the people asking says last time he got bolts many of them split. My
              > > immediate reaction would be the spine was too light. If that is not
              > > true what else would have caused them to split? could the grain have
              > > been lined up wrong? Is there anything else to think about to keep
              > > them from splitting?
              >
              > The grain is the first thing I'd check. It should be at right angles to
              > the
              > string. Some fletchers will leave a ring around the butt as a
              > reinforcement as well. (When you make bolts, one method is to make
              > them with a nock in order to use a fletching jig to align the flights.
              > Afterwards, you can either cut off the whole knock end _or_ cut off most
              >
              > of the nock leaving a plastic ring around the end of the bolt.)
              >
              > Another thing to look at is diameter. If the string is not lying along
              > the
              > center of the bolt's butt, it can tend to jump over or under the bolt
              > causing a misfire. If it's off center, but not enough to misfire, it
              > may still
              > be applying force to a narrower section of the bolt increasing the
              > likelihood of bolt damage. (The number of servings on the string is a
              > factor here also as it effects how high the string sits on the shelf.)
              >
              > > what about the length of the bolt? How should we determine best length
              > > from any given crossbow?
              >
              > It's largely a matter of personal preference and a question of how you
              > shoot and what you shoot at. Commonly, bolts range from 12" to 20".
              > Here are some factors to consider:
              >
              > Being the cheap SOB that I am, I generally make my short bolts from
              > 15" or less shafts so I can get two from each raw shaft. Longer bolts
              > are often recycled from arrows that have broken off tips and are too
              > short for my bow.
              >
              > Longer bolts tend to be more accurate but slower to load and vice
              > versa. Also, unless you use a spring to hold down your bolts, they'll
              > tend to tip off the end of the shelf if they're to long.
              >
              > Most people who use sights will use the tip of the bolt as their front
              > sight and make adjust ments to bolt length as a means of adjusting their
              >
              > sight picture. This technique is useful, but not for the faint of
              > heart. It
              > takes a *lot* of tweaking to find just the right length to make this
              > work
              > and there's no guarantee it'll still work from one bowstring to the
              > next.
              >
              > > What about the number of fletchings? Is 3 easier to deal with than 2?
              > > Are there some crossbows which can only take one or the other?
              >
              > Three fletch tends to be more accurate but is also slower to load and
              > requires a grooved shelf to use. Two fletch is slightly less accurate,
              > but
              > loads very quickly on any shelf.
              >
              > > Obviously I don't know much about crossbow bolt construction. I would
              > > really appreciate any advice you all have to give me.
              >
              > You're asking all the right questions. =)
              >
              > YIS,
              > Macsen
              >
              >
              > ---8<---------------------------------------------
              > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
              > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
              >
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              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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            • Nest verch Tangwistel
              I plan on getting a couple hundred Port Orford cedar shafts for this endeavor. We will easily use half of those for just the arrows. The arrows will need the
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                I plan on getting a couple hundred Port Orford cedar shafts for this
                endeavor. We will easily use half of those for just the arrows. The arrows
                will need the spines and weights matched carefully. Can I then take the
                shafts that don't fit in and match them by weight for the crossbow bolts
                without sorrying about the spines (within reason)?

                Nest
                --- Carolus Eulenhorst <eulenhorst@...> wrote:
                > Make sure you are using a good arrow wood like douglas fir, chundoo, or
                > port orford cedar for your bolts. There are others as well including
                > hardwoods but these should have the dowels drawn by the arrowmaker from
                > raw stock. Many times people make bolts from hardwood dowels and these
                > often have flaws in their grain structure which cause the bolts to split
                > under stress.. Bolt length is a matter of experimentation for each
                > archer, each crossbow, and how the crossbow is set up. No rule of thumb
                > there. Spine is not a factor as the bolt doesn't have to flex around
                > the
                > bow on release. For a basic class, stick to two fletch bolts - options
                > being straight (with or without angle) or helical.
                >
                > In service to the dream
                > Carolus von Eulenhorst
                > eulenhorst@...
                >
                >

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              • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                ... I will add to this, that having angle (or helical), and a noticeable amount of angle at that ... can be a GREAT boon to a crossbowman. It can hide a
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                  At 08:35 AM 10/22/2002 -0700, you wrote:
                  >For a basic class, stick to two fletch bolts - options
                  >being straight (with or without angle) or helical.

                  I will add to this, that having angle (or helical), and a 'noticeable
                  amount' of angle at that ... can be a GREAT boon to a crossbowman.

                  It can hide a multitude of sins with your crossbow itself (it's prod not
                  being absolutely centered, not being perfectly tipped, not being exactly
                  the same pull on each side, etc.)

                  With any of those problems (which all crossbows will have a slight amount
                  of, or obtain over their lifetime ... it's amazingly hard to get a prod
                  PERFECTLY straight/centered/perfectly-uniform-material/etc ....)

                  A straight fletched bolt may 'helicopter' on it's backside slightly. Often
                  only enough to look odd, and sometimes maybe only happening once every so
                  many shots, or from distances ...

                  But put a good couple of degrees of angle onto those fletches, and your
                  bolts, even on a 'bad' crossbow, become bullets.

                  Siegfried



                  _________________________________________________________________________
                  Lord Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & Archery Marshal
                  Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
                • blockflute1@aol.com
                  Crossbow quarrels do not take spine into account. They are too short, too thick and there is no oblique force to overcome like a longbow. The best quarrels
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                    Crossbow quarrels do not take spine into account. They are too short, too
                    thick and there is no oblique force to overcome like a longbow. The best
                    quarrels are tapered, narrow at the front and wide at the rear. Make sure
                    they are fletched so that the grain of the stelle is perpendicular to the
                    string.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • james kennedy
                    ... Yes, crossbow bolts don t get the same lateral stresses that arrows get on release, so, unlike lowgbow arrows, only being strong enough matters. As to two
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                      > I plan on getting a couple hundred Port Orford cedar shafts for this
                      > endeavor. We will easily use half of those for just the arrows. The
                      > arrows will need the spines and weights matched carefully. Can I then
                      > take the shafts that don't fit in and match them by weight for the
                      > crossbow bolts without sorrying about the spines (within reason)?

                      Yes, crossbow bolts don't get the same lateral stresses that arrows get
                      on release, so, unlike lowgbow arrows, only being strong enough
                      matters.

                      As to two vs. three fletch; three fletch bolts need a deep notch in
                      the track of crossbow, which medieval designs didn't have. Iolo
                      definitely doesn't put one in his bows. Two fletch bolts are almost
                      inherently unstable. They will take on a characteristic helicopter
                      spin once the bolt calls below a certain speed. Good fletchers will
                      produce bolts with a low enough critical speed to be useful.

                      knute


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                    • Jack Bradley
                      Same tips You need to play with the weight some it makes a big deference depending on the bow Ragnar
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                        Same tips You need to play with the weight some it makes a big deference
                        depending on the bow
                        Ragnar

                        Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:

                        > Excellent. Thank you very much.
                        >
                        > Finally what about points? Can I use the same tips as I do on arrows?
                        >
                        > Nest
                        > --- wyvern@... wrote:
                        > > On 22 Oct 2002 at 5:45, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > I looked through the archives on this list and came across plenty of
                        > > > info, but I just want to clarify a few things. The spine of the bolt
                        > > > is not that important? Somehow that goes against common sense. One of
                        > >
                        > > The shorter the bolt, the stiffer it is regardless of standard spine
                        > > measurements. Unless you start off with a really light spined raw shaft
                        > >
                        > > and make a pretty long bolt, it isn't an issue. In general, diameter is
                        > > a
                        > > bigger factor in bolts than spine. (Caveat: for long bolts, a
                        > > reasonably
                        > > stiff spine is still a good idea, but it's not a critical issue like it
                        > > would be
                        > > for arrows.)
                        > >
                        > > > the people asking says last time he got bolts many of them split. My
                        > > > immediate reaction would be the spine was too light. If that is not
                        > > > true what else would have caused them to split? could the grain have
                        > > > been lined up wrong? Is there anything else to think about to keep
                        > > > them from splitting?
                        > >
                        > > The grain is the first thing I'd check. It should be at right angles to
                        > > the
                        > > string. Some fletchers will leave a ring around the butt as a
                        > > reinforcement as well. (When you make bolts, one method is to make
                        > > them with a nock in order to use a fletching jig to align the flights.
                        > > Afterwards, you can either cut off the whole knock end _or_ cut off most
                        > >
                        > > of the nock leaving a plastic ring around the end of the bolt.)
                        > >
                        > > Another thing to look at is diameter. If the string is not lying along
                        > > the
                        > > center of the bolt's butt, it can tend to jump over or under the bolt
                        > > causing a misfire. If it's off center, but not enough to misfire, it
                        > > may still
                        > > be applying force to a narrower section of the bolt increasing the
                        > > likelihood of bolt damage. (The number of servings on the string is a
                        > > factor here also as it effects how high the string sits on the shelf.)
                        > >
                        > > > what about the length of the bolt? How should we determine best length
                        > > > from any given crossbow?
                        > >
                        > > It's largely a matter of personal preference and a question of how you
                        > > shoot and what you shoot at. Commonly, bolts range from 12" to 20".
                        > > Here are some factors to consider:
                        > >
                        > > Being the cheap SOB that I am, I generally make my short bolts from
                        > > 15" or less shafts so I can get two from each raw shaft. Longer bolts
                        > > are often recycled from arrows that have broken off tips and are too
                        > > short for my bow.
                        > >
                        > > Longer bolts tend to be more accurate but slower to load and vice
                        > > versa. Also, unless you use a spring to hold down your bolts, they'll
                        > > tend to tip off the end of the shelf if they're to long.
                        > >
                        > > Most people who use sights will use the tip of the bolt as their front
                        > > sight and make adjust ments to bolt length as a means of adjusting their
                        > >
                        > > sight picture. This technique is useful, but not for the faint of
                        > > heart. It
                        > > takes a *lot* of tweaking to find just the right length to make this
                        > > work
                        > > and there's no guarantee it'll still work from one bowstring to the
                        > > next.
                        > >
                        > > > What about the number of fletchings? Is 3 easier to deal with than 2?
                        > > > Are there some crossbows which can only take one or the other?
                        > >
                        > > Three fletch tends to be more accurate but is also slower to load and
                        > > requires a grooved shelf to use. Two fletch is slightly less accurate,
                        > > but
                        > > loads very quickly on any shelf.
                        > >
                        > > > Obviously I don't know much about crossbow bolt construction. I would
                        > > > really appreciate any advice you all have to give me.
                        > >
                        > > You're asking all the right questions. =)
                        > >
                        > > YIS,
                        > > Macsen
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                        > > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        > >
                        > > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
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                        > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
                        > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
                        >
                        > ---8<---------------------------------------------
                        > Brought to you YahooGroups Ad Free in 2002 by Medieval Mart
                        > Get Medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.medievalmart.com/
                        >
                        > [Email to SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com to leave this list]
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • wyvern@megahits.com
                        ... I d at least try to keep them grouped as closely as is practical -- especially for anyone making longer bolts. But you should be okay using the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                          On 22 Oct 2002 at 10:01, Nest verch Tangwistel wrote:

                          > arrows will need the spines and weights matched carefully. Can I then
                          > take the shafts that don't fit in and match them by weight for the
                          > crossbow bolts without sorrying about the spines (within reason)?

                          I'd at least try to keep them grouped as closely as is practical --
                          especially for anyone making longer bolts. But you should be okay
                          using the "leftovers" for bolts.

                          YIS,
                          Macsen
                        • Carolus Eulenhorst
                          Yep. I use conical target points for my bolts but regular field points work well also.In service to the dream Carolus von Eulenhorst eulenhorst@juno.comOn
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 22, 2002
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                            Yep. I use conical target points for my bolts but regular field points
                            work well also.

                            In service to the dream
                            Carolus von Eulenhorst
                            eulenhorst@...

                            On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Nest verch Tangwistel
                            <eastarch@...> writes:
                            > I plan on getting a couple hundred Port Orford cedar shafts for this
                            > endeavor. We will easily use half of those for just the arrows. The
                            > arrows
                            > will need the spines and weights matched carefully. Can I then take
                            > the
                            > shafts that don't fit in and match them by weight for the crossbow
                            > bolts
                            > without sorrying about the spines (within reason)?
                            >
                            > Nest

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                          • L.J. Sparvero
                            ... From splitting more firewood that I care to recall, it seemed like an axe-stroke at right angles to the grain caused the log to split neatly. I never tried
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 23, 2002
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                              At 02:30 PM 10/22/2002 +0000, Macsen wrote:
                              >The grain is the first thing I'd check. It should be at right angles to the
                              >string.

                              From splitting more firewood that I care to recall, it seemed like an
                              axe-stroke at right angles to the grain caused the log to split neatly. I
                              never tried to split it parallel to the grain to see if it was easier, so I
                              really don't know.

                              What I do know from bare-shaft tuning of my period recurve is that the
                              spine of the shaft is slightly different (about 3 pounds on a 32" 45-50#
                              shaft) if it's measured parallel or at right angles to the grain.

                              But yes, if the spine weight is strong enough for a given bolt length, this
                              isn't an issue.

                              >Another thing to look at is diameter. If the string is not lying along the
                              >center of the bolt's butt, it can tend to jump over or under the bolt
                              >causing a misfire. If it's off center, but not enough to misfire, it may
                              >still
                              >be applying force to a narrower section of the bolt increasing the
                              >likelihood of bolt damage. (The number of servings on the string is a
                              >factor here also as it effects how high the string sits on the shelf.)

                              This is very good advice. Another thing I check is that my rolling-nut is
                              seated properly in the stock -- if the nut is holding the string too high
                              or low relative to the bolt, the same effect is going to happen.

                              >Longer bolts tend to be more accurate but slower to load and vice
                              >versa. Also, unless you use a spring to hold down your bolts, they'll
                              >tend to tip off the end of the shelf if they're to long.

                              And even with holding the bolt down with your thumb might not solve the
                              issue if the bolt is too tip-heavy (been there, done that).

                              I've noticed that the Philly museum bolts are tapered in the sides in back,
                              seemingly to fit in the nut better (i.e. it looks like a flattened "O"
                              rather than a perfectly round circle). Has anyone out there had a chance to
                              look at an authentic bow with its original bolts? (the Philly and Cleveland
                              bolts are not matched to the bows that they're displayed with IIRC) I
                              always have wondered if the butt-end of the bolts are shaped to give a snug
                              (but not tight!) fit in the nut, to help keep them from falling off the
                              shelf. Several of the bows I've looked at don't have a groove in the stock
                              to help hold the bolt.

                              -Lyev
                            • Nest verch Tangwistel
                              First, I want to thank everyone for their feedback. Now, when you say helicopter , I gather you do not mean that they spin, but rather a precessing motion
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 23, 2002
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                                First, I want to thank everyone for their feedback.

                                Now, when you say "helicopter", I gather you do not mean that they spin,
                                but rather a precessing motion (that motion that a spinning top starts to
                                make as it slows down). Is that right?

                                Nest

                                > With any of those problems (which all crossbows will have a slight
                                > amount
                                > of, or obtain over their lifetime ... it's amazingly hard to get a prod
                                > PERFECTLY straight/centered/perfectly-uniform-material/etc ....)
                                >
                                > A straight fletched bolt may 'helicopter' on it's backside slightly.
                                > Often
                                > only enough to look odd, and sometimes maybe only happening once every
                                > so
                                > many shots, or from distances ...
                                >
                                > But put a good couple of degrees of angle onto those fletches, and your
                                > bolts, even on a 'bad' crossbow, become bullets.
                                >
                                > Siegfried
                                >

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                              • Siegfried Sebastian Faust
                                Correct, the point will typically stay on target (ish) ... but the end of the bolt will move around. Of course, if this problem gets back enough, and/or you
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 23, 2002
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                                  Correct, the point will typically stay on target (ish) ... but the end of
                                  the bolt will move around.

                                  Of course, if this problem gets back enough, and/or you shoot a long enough
                                  distance, the back end will move so far to send the bolt itself into a
                                  tumble. Can sometimes be impressive ... shooting a crossbow that is doing
                                  this at a 45 degree angle, and watching the bolt start flying 'ok', start
                                  to precess, and then about 70yds out, the bolt suddenly stop and drop dead,
                                  plummeting to the earth :)

                                  Siegfried


                                  At 09:56 AM 10/23/2002 -0700, you wrote:
                                  >First, I want to thank everyone for their feedback.
                                  >
                                  >Now, when you say "helicopter", I gather you do not mean that they spin,
                                  >but rather a precessing motion (that motion that a spinning top starts to
                                  >make as it slows down). Is that right?
                                  >
                                  >Nest
                                  >
                                  > > With any of those problems (which all crossbows will have a slight
                                  > > amount
                                  > > of, or obtain over their lifetime ... it's amazingly hard to get a prod
                                  > > PERFECTLY straight/centered/perfectly-uniform-material/etc ....)
                                  > >
                                  > > A straight fletched bolt may 'helicopter' on it's backside slightly.
                                  > > Often
                                  > > only enough to look odd, and sometimes maybe only happening once every
                                  > > so
                                  > > many shots, or from distances ...
                                  > >
                                  > > But put a good couple of degrees of angle onto those fletches, and your
                                  > > bolts, even on a 'bad' crossbow, become bullets.
                                  > >
                                  > > Siegfried
                                  > >
                                  >
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