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titles and forms of address

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  • J. Hughes
    As I have a member of my household that is on the Laurel Sovereign s staff, and works Spanish names and titles, I asked her on the use of don and the
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 26 6:34 PM
      As I have a member of my household that is on the
      Laurel Sovereign's staff, and works Spanish names and
      titles, I asked her on the use of "don" and the
      authority of the College of Arms.

      Charles O'Connor
      --- julias@... wrote:
      > Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
      > Subject: Re: Fwd: [SCA-Archery] Arcuarius
      > From: <julias@...>
      > To: <jphughessr@...>
      > > I take it there is a question of Laural authority
      > in
      > > all this that goes beyond the issue of if the
      > > alternative titles list is valid. ??
      > Well, sure. Just because A~B and B~C doesn't mean
      > that A~C. In these
      > cases, a single term of address is used for a
      > broader class of people than
      > we expect in English. Of course, period practice
      > isn't as clean as we
      > like to think it is in English, as you will quickly
      > realize if you start
      > reading courtly letters.
      > Don is a term of address that is used for *everyone*
      > from the petty gentry
      > (hidalgos) up to the king. You can find phrases
      > like "el rey don Alfonso"
      > all through the Cantar del Mio Cid.
      > And this continues to this day: An official website
      > gives the current king
      > as "Su Majestad el Rey Don Juan Carlos I." You may
      > identify him simply as
      > "Su Majestad el Rey" or as "Don Juan Carlos" You
      > may see all three cases
      > on this page.
      > http://www.casareal.es/casareal/home.html
      > Does that mean that I think that the older folks
      > that I call <Don+first
      > name> are the king? Not any more than you think
      > that the folks who you
      > call Sir are all the commander in chief. Don is
      > equivalent to <Sir> in
      > that way; it doesn't reflect specific rank, but
      > general respect.
      > I'm not sure why people have made the leap from
      > terms of address being the
      > same to rank being equivalent. Does that mean that
      > in the SCA we think
      > that Barons, Counts, and Viscounts are "equivalent"
      > because we call them
      > all your excellency? Does that mean that if I get a
      > Court Baroncy, I can
      > start wearing a county coronet? I don't *think* so.
      > But it's exactly the
      > same case as we're discussing here.
      > >> that IF
      > >> the paper copy is the same as the online copy,
      > the
      > >> College
      > >> of Heralds no longer have the authority to
      > produce
      > >> this
      > >> list. If the paper copy is NOT the same as the
      > >> online, why
      > >> not? Does anyone have the latest paper copy of
      > >> Corpora? Does
      > >> it have an 'Appendix C'? If it does not have this
      > Wrong. The authority is clearly vested in Laurel in
      > Corpora, which says
      > VI.C.1. Laurel Sovereign of Arms
      > The Laurel Sovereign of Arms (Laurel) is the
      > principal heraldic officer of
      > the Society and the head of the College of Arms.
      > Laurel is responsible
      > for fostering the study and practice of heraldry,
      > and for establishing
      > rules and making determinations regarding names and
      > armory,
      > royal and noble titles, and geogrpahical
      > designations to be approved for
      > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      > use in the Society.
      > Therefore, the old Appendix C is not necessary.
      > This is reiterated in Section VIII. Personal Awards
      > and Titles, under
      > D.Titles, Corpora says:
      > in 2.
      > "Such alternate titles may be used....provided the
      > College of Arms has
      > ruled that the title in question is an equivalent
      > for the rank or award in
      > question.
      > in 4.
      > "...In addition, the College of Arms has full
      > approval authority over new
      > alternative titles..."
      > >> Spanish personas only, of course. It does not
      > matter
      > >> that
      > >> the Ansteorran use of Don/Dona as restricted
      > titles
      > >> of
      > >> members of the Order of the White Scarf had to be
      > >> approved
      > >> by the Laurel of Arms before the Kingdom could
      > grant
      > >> such an
      > >> award or start such an 'order'.
      > The Order of the White Scarf has been registered to
      > the Kingdom of
      > Ansteorra (and then in various forms to a wide
      > variety of others, with
      > letters of permission to conflict). The kingdom did
      > not consult with
      > Laurel regarding the form of address of members of
      > that order. Given
      > this, they are welcome to use the title "Lady" and
      > "Lord" and such
      > alternate titles as they wish approved by Laurel,
      > including <don> and
      > <don~a>. However, when they try to limit this
      > usage, they haven't a leg
      > to stand on.
      > Juliana

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