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Royal Rounds - Macsen

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  • Leonard & Patty Baldt
    Macsen: I see the vote starting to come in. It seems that people are growing weary of your ranting without offering any alternatives. Now don t bore us with
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 2, 1999
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      Macsen:
      I see the vote starting to come in. It seems that people are growing
      weary of your ranting
      without offering any alternatives. Now don't bore us with York, Clout,
      Wand, and Pop-N-Jay......as these are events that we are already
      including as regular events when
      range facilities are such that allows us the room to shoot.

      You stand on your soap box and tell us "Bozos" that we don't know any
      better. So, give
      us the benefit of your extensive knowledge. Give us some examples.
      Time to put up or
      shut up!

      Leonidas, Shire of Vulkanfeldt
      Kingdom of An Tir
    • Bob & Nancy Upson
      ... First off, sirrah, I will ask once politely that you rein in your tone on the list. Secondly, I will point out that, if you take a closer look, I am not
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 3, 1999
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        > Macsen:
        > I see the vote starting to come in. It seems that people are growing
        > weary of your ranting

        First off, sirrah, I will ask once politely that you rein in your tone on
        the list. Secondly, I will point out that, if you take a closer look, I
        am not the only person questioning the overuse and abuse of RRs.
        As an entirely mundane shoot, their prominence in SCA archery
        just plain doesn't Make sense.

        > without offering any alternatives. Now don't bore us with York, Clout,
        > Wand, and Pop-N-Jay......as these are events that we are already
        > including as regular events when
        > range facilities are such that allows us the room to shoot.

        The number of shoots available to SCA archers is as unlimited as
        your imagination. The same "range facilities" that make RRs
        possible allow for wands, slots, friend/foe, knock-downs, unmarked
        distance, five spots, string shoots, follow the leaders, and anything
        else you care to name.

        All of them are good teaching tools, all can be shot on limited
        ranges, all can be adjusted to challenge but not overwhelm any
        archer of any skill, and in combination they make for a better
        overall archer than just shooting RRs all day. (Which only makes
        better RR shooters.)

        > You stand on your soap box and tell us "Bozos" that we don't know any
        > better.

        So, in your opinion, the fact that your kingdom couldn't come up
        with anything better than a joke name appropriated from a private
        East Kingdom psuedo-ranking for its official archery ranking for
        RRs over 119.67 doesn't strike you as silly? *Surely* somebody
        could come up with a better attempt than that.

        > So, give us the benefit of your extensive knowledge. Give us some
        > examples. Time to put up or shut up!

        Am I to understand that RRs and the short list of possible shoots
        you mentioned above are the only types of shoots you can
        conceive of without assistance? Ask around, talk to other archers,
        make something up. But, whatever you do, I'll bet you become a
        better archer if you break out of the RR mold and spend more time
        on variety than on repetative mundanity.

        Macsen
      • JimHart ConalO'hAirt
        everyone.... stop... breathe... think... breathe again... RELAX... breathe deeply... and remember we are supposed to be adults This public service announcement
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 3, 1999
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          everyone....
          stop...
          breathe...
          think...
          breathe again...
          RELAX...
          breathe deeply...
          and remember we are supposed to be adults

          This public service announcement brought to you
          by those who get tired of this kind of thing.....


          >From: "Bob & Nancy Upson" <wyvern@...>
          >Reply-To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
          >To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
          >Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Royal Rounds - Macsen
          >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:09:36 -0500
          >
          > > Macsen:
          > > I see the vote starting to come in. It seems that people are growing
          > > weary of your ranting
          >
          >First off, sirrah, I will ask once politely that you rein in your tone on
          >the list. Secondly, I will point out that, if you take a closer look, I
          >am not the only person questioning the overuse and abuse of RRs.
          >As an entirely mundane shoot, their prominence in SCA archery
          >just plain doesn't Make sense.
          >
          > > without offering any alternatives. Now don't bore us with York, Clout,
          > > Wand, and Pop-N-Jay......as these are events that we are already
          > > including as regular events when
          > > range facilities are such that allows us the room to shoot.
          >
          >The number of shoots available to SCA archers is as unlimited as
          >your imagination. The same "range facilities" that make RRs
          >possible allow for wands, slots, friend/foe, knock-downs, unmarked
          >distance, five spots, string shoots, follow the leaders, and anything
          >else you care to name.
          >
          >All of them are good teaching tools, all can be shot on limited
          >ranges, all can be adjusted to challenge but not overwhelm any
          >archer of any skill, and in combination they make for a better
          >overall archer than just shooting RRs all day. (Which only makes
          >better RR shooters.)
          >
          > > You stand on your soap box and tell us "Bozos" that we don't know any
          > > better.
          >
          >So, in your opinion, the fact that your kingdom couldn't come up
          >with anything better than a joke name appropriated from a private
          >East Kingdom psuedo-ranking for its official archery ranking for
          >RRs over 119.67 doesn't strike you as silly? *Surely* somebody
          >could come up with a better attempt than that.
          >
          > > So, give us the benefit of your extensive knowledge. Give us some
          > > examples. Time to put up or shut up!
          >
          >Am I to understand that RRs and the short list of possible shoots
          >you mentioned above are the only types of shoots you can
          >conceive of without assistance? Ask around, talk to other archers,
          >make something up. But, whatever you do, I'll bet you become a
          >better archer if you break out of the RR mold and spend more time
          >on variety than on repetative mundanity.
          >
          >Macsen
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
          >of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
          >[SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
          ><< text3.html >>
        • Leonard & Patty Baldt
          Macsen: Let me be the first to publicly apologize for my tone. However, I feel the tone was set when the name calling was started. I for one, in my Kingdom,
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 3, 1999
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            Macsen:
            Let me be the first to publicly apologize for my tone. However, I feel
            the tone was set when the name calling was started. I for one, in my
            Kingdom, was offended.

            Now, let me thank you for your list. It is a good base to build upon.
            The 5 spot blue face target is a good one. The local archery club that
            I belong to uses them along with the 3 spot Vegas targets and small
            animal targets for indoor winter leagues. String shoots with 3-D
            animals is fun. I attend different traditional only 3-D shoots around
            the area.

            By the way, I use a longbow. I have several ranging from custom built
            takedowns to production run composites, to D-shaped English longbows
            with bone nocks. Don't really have a favorite, they are all fun.

            Now, "follow the leader", huh? I refer to that as stump shooting.
            Great fun when camping with friends.

            Well, looking back on your list, it seems we may not be all that
            different after all.

            Leonidas
            Shire of Vulkanfeldt
            Kingdom of An Tir
          • Bob & Nancy Upson
            ... Your apology, graciously offered, is accepted. Let me also tender my own apology for the offense. Sometimes being passionate about a topic can lead one
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 3, 1999
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              > Let me be the first to publicly apologize for my tone. However, I feel
              > the tone was set when the name calling was started. I for one, in my
              > Kingdom, was offended.

              Your apology, graciously offered, is accepted. Let me also tender
              my own apology for the offense. Sometimes being passionate
              about a topic can lead one to step over the line.

              > Now, let me thank you for your list. It is a good base to build upon.
              [snipped for brevity]

              > By the way, I use a longbow. I have several ranging from custom built
              > takedowns to production run composites, to D-shaped English longbows
              > with bone nocks. Don't really have a favorite, they are all fun.

              Longbow is also my preferred weapon, although my collection isn't as
              extensive as your own. I generally switch between a Pearson Old
              Ben (my first SCA bow) and a venerable Martin Bush Bandit (a
              beautiful but heavy custom laminate bow). When I'm playing on the
              Dark Side of the Force, I shoot a mongrel "perioid" crossbow (riflish
              stock, rolling lock, glass prod, sinew bridle). I have a shop full of
              crossbow parts to build another more period version one of these
              days and vague plans for a double prod version to follow.

              > Well, looking back on your list, it seems we may not be all that
              > different after all.

              Isn't that always the way of it? =)

              YIS,
              Macsen
            • John Bowslayer
              Macsen , If you have any more negative comments to say about the Kingdom of An Tir or the rules or its archers, please send them to me personally. I am
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 6, 1999
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                Macsen , If you have any more negative comments to say about the Kingdom of
                An Tir or the rules or its archers, please send them to me personally. I am
                responsible for the rules here. In the past I have read your posts. Usually
                they are well thought out. But you have sunk to personal insults. You have
                offended my Kingdom, family, friends and me. Please stop
                HLS John Bowslayer, OGGS, Yeoman, Sergeant
                Royal Archer of An Tir
                Bowslayer@...

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Bob & Nancy Upson <wyvern@...>
                To: <SCA-Archery@onelist.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 6:09 AM
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Royal Rounds - Macsen


                > From: "Bob & Nancy Upson" <wyvern@...>
                >
                > > Macsen:
                > > I see the vote starting to come in. It seems that people are growing
                > > weary of your ranting
                >
                > First off, sirrah, I will ask once politely that you rein in your tone on
                > the list. Secondly, I will point out that, if you take a closer look, I
                > am not the only person questioning the overuse and abuse of RRs.
                > As an entirely mundane shoot, their prominence in SCA archery
                > just plain doesn't Make sense.
                >
                > > without offering any alternatives. Now don't bore us with York, Clout,
                > > Wand, and Pop-N-Jay......as these are events that we are already
                > > including as regular events when
                > > range facilities are such that allows us the room to shoot.
                >
                > The number of shoots available to SCA archers is as unlimited as
                > your imagination. The same "range facilities" that make RRs
                > possible allow for wands, slots, friend/foe, knock-downs, unmarked
                > distance, five spots, string shoots, follow the leaders, and anything
                > else you care to name.
                >
                > All of them are good teaching tools, all can be shot on limited
                > ranges, all can be adjusted to challenge but not overwhelm any
                > archer of any skill, and in combination they make for a better
                > overall archer than just shooting RRs all day. (Which only makes
                > better RR shooters.)
                >
                > > You stand on your soap box and tell us "Bozos" that we don't know any
                > > better.
                >
                > So, in your opinion, the fact that your kingdom couldn't come up
                > with anything better than a joke name appropriated from a private
                > East Kingdom psuedo-ranking for its official archery ranking for
                > RRs over 119.67 doesn't strike you as silly? *Surely* somebody
                > could come up with a better attempt than that.
                >
                > > So, give us the benefit of your extensive knowledge. Give us some
                > > examples. Time to put up or shut up!
                >
                > Am I to understand that RRs and the short list of possible shoots
                > you mentioned above are the only types of shoots you can
                > conceive of without assistance? Ask around, talk to other archers,
                > make something up. But, whatever you do, I'll bet you become a
                > better archer if you break out of the RR mold and spend more time
                > on variety than on repetative mundanity.
                >
                > Macsen
                >
                > > This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                > of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
                > [SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
                >
              • Bob & Nancy Upson
                ... Responded to on the list as a final public statement. With respect, I have only offered my opinion regarding the inclusion of Ludicrous Bowman as an
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 6, 1999
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                  > Macsen , If you have any more negative comments to say about the Kingdom of
                  > An Tir or the rules or its archers, please send them to me personally. I am
                  > responsible for the rules here. In the past I have read your posts. Usually
                  > they are well thought out. But you have sunk to personal insults. You have
                  > offended my Kingdom, family, friends and me. Please stop

                  Responded to on the list as a final public statement.

                  With respect, I have only offered my opinion regarding the inclusion
                  of "Ludicrous Bowman" as an official ranking. It is, IMHO, a poor
                  choice of titles for an official award and I am highly disappointed
                  that *any* kingdom would "officialize" such a joke name for a rank
                  that represents such a high level of skill.

                  In short, I have stated my opinion regarding An Tir's collective
                  decision to create a top level archery ranking and name it
                  "Ludicrous." I have offered personal insults to no one. If you read
                  insults into my opinion, that is entirely your option but I cannot be
                  held responsible for your interpretations.

                  Macsen
                • Yaakov or Ralph
                  If I amy make a sugestion, please take this off line and resolve it that way. Yaakov Avraham ben Obadiah (Silly) Ludicrous Bowman of the Knowne World ... From:
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 6, 1999
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                    If I amy make a sugestion, please take this off line and resolve it that
                    way.

                    Yaakov Avraham ben Obadiah
                    (Silly) Ludicrous Bowman of the Knowne World

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: John Bowslayer [mailto:Bowslayer@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 11:38 AM
                    To: SCA-Archery@onelist.com
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Royal Rounds - Macsen


                    From: "John Bowslayer" <Bowslayer@...>

                    Macsen , If you have any more negative comments to say about the Kingdom of
                    An Tir or the rules or its archers, please send them to me personally. I am
                    responsible for the rules here. In the past I have read your posts. Usually
                    they are well thought out. But you have sunk to personal insults. You have
                    offended my Kingdom, family, friends and me. Please stop
                    HLS John Bowslayer, OGGS, Yeoman, Sergeant
                    Royal Archer of An Tir
                    Bowslayer@...

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Bob & Nancy Upson <wyvern@...>
                    To: <SCA-Archery@onelist.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 6:09 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] Royal Rounds - Macsen


                    > From: "Bob & Nancy Upson" <wyvern@...>
                    >
                    > > Macsen:
                    > > I see the vote starting to come in. It seems that people are growing
                    > > weary of your ranting
                    >
                    > First off, sirrah, I will ask once politely that you rein in your tone on
                    > the list. Secondly, I will point out that, if you take a closer look, I
                    > am not the only person questioning the overuse and abuse of RRs.
                    > As an entirely mundane shoot, their prominence in SCA archery
                    > just plain doesn't Make sense.
                    >
                    > > without offering any alternatives. Now don't bore us with York, Clout,
                    > > Wand, and Pop-N-Jay......as these are events that we are already
                    > > including as regular events when
                    > > range facilities are such that allows us the room to shoot.
                    >
                    > The number of shoots available to SCA archers is as unlimited as
                    > your imagination. The same "range facilities" that make RRs
                    > possible allow for wands, slots, friend/foe, knock-downs, unmarked
                    > distance, five spots, string shoots, follow the leaders, and anything
                    > else you care to name.
                    >
                    > All of them are good teaching tools, all can be shot on limited
                    > ranges, all can be adjusted to challenge but not overwhelm any
                    > archer of any skill, and in combination they make for a better
                    > overall archer than just shooting RRs all day. (Which only makes
                    > better RR shooters.)
                    >
                    > > You stand on your soap box and tell us "Bozos" that we don't know any
                    > > better.
                    >
                    > So, in your opinion, the fact that your kingdom couldn't come up
                    > with anything better than a joke name appropriated from a private
                    > East Kingdom psuedo-ranking for its official archery ranking for
                    > RRs over 119.67 doesn't strike you as silly? *Surely* somebody
                    > could come up with a better attempt than that.
                    >
                    > > So, give us the benefit of your extensive knowledge. Give us some
                    > > examples. Time to put up or shut up!
                    >
                    > Am I to understand that RRs and the short list of possible shoots
                    > you mentioned above are the only types of shoots you can
                    > conceive of without assistance? Ask around, talk to other archers,
                    > make something up. But, whatever you do, I'll bet you become a
                    > better archer if you break out of the RR mold and spend more time
                    > on variety than on repetative mundanity.
                    >
                    > Macsen
                    >
                    > > This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                    > of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
                    > [SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
                    >

                    This list sponsored by House Wyvern Hall
                    of Barony Beyond the Mountain, East Kingdom
                    [SCA-Archery-unsubscribe@... to leave this list]
                  • Brad Boda d'Aylward
                    ... I encourage new comers to the society to pick a name for themselves within the first six to twelve months of activity with us because of the very real
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 7, 1999
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                      Bob & Nancy Upson wrote:

                      > With respect, I have only offered my opinion regarding the inclusion
                      > of "Ludicrous Bowman" as an official ranking. It is, IMHO, a poor
                      > choice of titles for an official award and I am highly disappointed
                      > that *any* kingdom would "officialize" such a joke name for a rank
                      > that represents such a high level of skill.
                      >
                      > In short, I have stated my opinion regarding An Tir's collective
                      > decision to create a top level archery ranking and name it
                      > "Ludicrous." I have offered personal insults to no one. If you read
                      > insults into my opinion, that is entirely your option but I cannot be
                      > held responsible for your interpretations.
                      >
                      > Macsen
                      >
                      I encourage new comers to the society to pick a name for themselves
                      within the first six to twelve months of activity with us because of the
                      very real possibility of getting tagged with a name not of their own
                      choosing. It would appear that this is the case with the Ludicrous
                      Bowman. I doubt that those archers who shot those scores chose that
                      designator to describe their proficiency but the name has been used for
                      long enough and has such a recognition factor that it has stuck and now
                      been recognized as such. Nuts, should have caught that one sooner. Oh
                      well, now we'll just have to live with it it would seem. I doubt that it
                      will ever be changed no matter the 'rightness' or 'wrongness' associated
                      with the 'title'.

                      Brad
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