22009Crossbows - was: Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Royal Round Rankings
- Jan 5, 2007What about greg? he puts out like 10-12 arrows with his crossbow
during a timed 30 sec shoot. I can only put out between 7-8 arrows
with my current recurve, was 8-10 before with a lighter recurve.
My point is the crossbow guy can load and shoot fast too, So wouldn't
that completely throw things off?
How do you compete against that?
--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Siegfried Sebastian Faust
> > As for crossbows, I couldn't agree with you more. I really
> >are a separate category of shooting.stable than
> I may 'slightly' disagree, but that's ok :)
> > Having shot rifles in mundane life,
> >I know that shooting from a sitting position is inherently more
> >from a standing position. Most crossbow archers I have ever seensit
> >on the firing line, lay their bolts near at hand on the ground,and are fairly
> >accurate once they have sighted in during early practice rounds.see
> And this is why some of us Crossbowmen, have chosen to always shoot
> standing (unless the shot calls for otherwise). In my mind, if I
> myself as a period target crossbowman (quite period for myself inthe 16th
> century), I can't find any documentation of these target shootsbeing done
> with the archers sitting. Bench shooting, yes, you can find that.But
> that is a completely different story from archers walking aroundwith a
> piece of leather to place on the ground to sit on, and floppingthemselves
> If I consider myself as practicing for combat. Same problems,
> behind a pavise, sure. So a kneeling crossbowman I don't have aproblem
> with. But I just can't see a crossbowman running up in the fieldof
> battle, dropping to the field and then shooting.shoots, it can
> Either way, I don't see the medieval crossbowman sitting on the
> ground. And so I don't.
> > All that being said, in tournaments if there are some unmarked
> > distances and timed rounds as well as some longer distance
> > be balanced outcrossbows,
> >to make it a chalenging competition!!
> Well said.
> As a crossbowman, when I often hear of people complaining about
> and how they are unbalancing at an event ... they never stop tolook at the
> Shoots can be well designed to be a balanced competition for all
> but they quite often aren't. People designing the shoots thinkabout what
> would be cool, and stop there, not thinking about balancing themafterwards.
> Usually these shoots where the crossbows overpower the bows, are
> known distances, no speed rounds, many shots per target, etc.out, and
> Most likely someone made a couple of cardboard targets, set them
> said for everyone to take 6 shots at each untimed. This is theslow, shooter.
> crossbowman's dream. AS WELL AS anyone who is an accurate, but
>competition. Have a
> Some more thought needs put into balancing the overall
> good mix of speed & untimed rounds. Unmarked distances. Oddshooting
> conditions. Movement of the archer (a 'running' shoot), etc.Kill/Wound
> zones. One/two shot targets, etc.between
> Looking into these ideas and thinking about balancing your shoot
> the faster less accurate archers, and the slower more accuratearchers, and
> you will find a good competition with the bows & crossbows runningneck&neck.
> Conversely, I have been to competitions, that as a crossbowman,
> IMPOSSIBLE for me to win.let's say,
> One example was an event I went to, a large roving range, with,
> 10 targets. Every single target was a single arrow, with just a 1-point
> for a hit. EXCEPT for one. Ok, so right now you have a 9-pointtotal match.
> The 'last' target, was a speed round, against multiple targets, on
> one of the targets had multiple hits possible, and that target hada
> 2-point (large) kill zone. But you had to hit these two othertargets
> first. (Standard hunter & his dogs idea) Well, being a standingtargets,
> crossbowman, I can get 5-6 shots off in 30 seconds. With multiple
> make that only 5. So at most, I could get 8 points here. givingme a
> maximum for the course, of 17 points. However, the bowmen therewho could
> shoot 10-12 arrows in 30 seconds, could get a maximum of 18-22points on
> that one shoot alone. Meaning that they could have skipped thewhole rest
> of the shoot, showed up only at that one target, and outshoot mefor the
> whole competition *grin*direction,
> Anyway, the point is, that shoots can be unbalanced in either
> and unfortuantely, the 'standard shoots' tend to be a bitunbalanced in the
> direction of the crossbow.shield
> >Crossbow Royal Round, essentially the only difference would be to
> >have everyone shoot from a standing postion (kneeling behind a
> >on the battlefield was also period for crossbows) and adjustsomehow
> >for the difference in a crossbows rate of fire for a 30-secondround.
> Well, a number of people & myself have discussed the RR as it
> have decided (open to debate here), that the RR IS balanced, atthe '100'
> mark. That is to say, once you start hitting around a score of100, the
> bowman and crossbowman, are at similar levels of practice, skill,to
> effort. Because the speed portion of the competition really starts
> become important at these higher scores.at known
> At the lower score levels, the crossbowman jumps up the rank
> quicker. Because of the reliance of short range, untimed accuracy
> distances. All things in the crossbowmans favor.make
> The idea had been tossed around, of a modifed ranking system, to
> things equal perhaps. Currently, in Atlantia, we have:for
> 40 - Marksman
> 60 - Bowman
> 80 - Bowman Elite
> 100 - Grand Bowman Elite
> The idea to 'balance' the crossbows, would be to have 15point steps
> them, starting down from 100:100
> 55 - Marksman
> 70 - Bowman
> 85 - Bowman Elite
> 100 - Grand Bowman Elite
> With the idea again being that things are already balanced at the
> mark. But that this raises the 'entry level' bar for thecrossbowmen.
> THL Siegfried Sebastian Faust Baronial Web Minister & ArcheryMarshal
> Barony of Highland Foorde http://highland-foorde.atlantia.sca.org/
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