17870Re: [SCA-Archery] Re: Targets and such
- Apr 30, 2005I don't recall any "unsupported statements" of opinion. Merely that we do
not have documented evidence of the activity of western archers activities
which backup claims of distance and accuracy. And that is the core of the
original postulate - not that remarkable feats were occasionally achieved
by specific, extraordinary individuals. That that occurred you have shown
well. What has not been shown is support for the contention that such
results were reproducible and common by the typical archer. I am not
saying that what you are doing is without value or is not true. What I am
saying is that it does not support the original contention. I am also
trying to point out where our "research" fails. Yes, Evian's work was
exemplary and would be the target for which we all aim. Please note my
many posts in the past where I stated I had heard or read things but did
not have support for them. I present them as anecdotal support only, not
documented evidence. Honesty in our sources is the primary consideration
here. I also point out that the questions which led to Evian's work were
also historical in nature and a high degree of proof was demanded. If we
accept less in our own discussions we demean ourselves, our work, and our
credibility in future studies. If you read the archives of this and the
missile combat list you will see that I an very consistent in my criticisms
over years of work.
At 03:45 AM 4/30/2005, you wrote:
>--- In SCA-Archery@yahoogroups.com, Carolus von Eulenhorst--
> > Please note that I am only holding the archers to the same
>standard of proof I called for when we were debating the
>effectiveness of archery versus armor. Fair is fair.
> > Carolus
>This I find sort of amusing. If you recall, I first psoted on this
>topic in response to completely unsupported statements of a
>universal nature (opinions) offered by yourself. I even asked for
>documentation, but none was forthcoming. So I stopped construction
>on my home long enough to do a little research, all of which you do
>not like for one reason or another, little of which has to do
>with 'research' methods, such as you 'opinion' as to what items in
>heistory are relevant to 'western culture'.
>Now we can look at your two responses just given. In (1) you do not
>offer counter-documentation or dispute the fact of the shoot, but
>wish to arue the author's right to place the article in terms his
>readers would understand -- not everyone is writing a master's
>thesis, you know. Yet on (20, becuase it apparently goes against
>some pet theory, you would wish to translate the given distance into
>your own terms. What? Fair is fair.
>If you feel a need to police postings here please be consistent. If
>you wish to conduct a 'scholarly' research project then there are
>documented guidelines to follow from any university. If you wish to
>encourage exploration and research of a 'fun nature' (in keeping
>with the concept of the SCA game) then all 'found items' should be
>encouraged, with each reader using the information as they will.
>Those wishing a more 'scholarly view' may do so off-list as friend
>Naturally, 'opinions' based on ones personal feelings about the
>things they read and see should also be encouraged -- and stated
>as 'opinions' -- not as facts or universal claims. An archer's
>chosen garb is supposed to reflect research into persona
>develpment. When on the field, do you accost each participant with
>observations about the inconsistencies of their cloths? Do you bar
>an archer from the lists because the color of his fletchings are
>inconsistent with the period of his chosen name? I doubt it -- so
>why do it here?
>The 'purpose' of the Group is clearly stated as "discussions of
>traditional archery in the SCA." For me, your recent comments are
>not meant to foster 'discussion' but to filter ideas and concepts
>according to previously held beliefs and assumptions. That is your
>right, but please don't pretend it is 'educational'. Try learning
>something NEW occationally.
>To this end, I will quit providing any documentation at all! Anyone
>wishing to do a formal and proper research project may contact me
>off-list. Feel free to offer any opinion related to my postings as
>you will, but pray do not so under any pretence of 'research'. If
>you wish to encourage contributions on a theme, please start each
>post with a statement of that theme so that all know what you are
>comparing the ideas to, and do not assume that any posting of mine
>is in response to any unstated theme just because it seems to fit.
> pedantically yours,
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