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Re: Hi ! From Tokyo , Japan

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  • Derek Stearns Roff
    I presume hydrate lime is also called hydraulic lime?? I m thinking Kyle meant what we call in the USA hydrated lime , which consists mostly of calcium
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 27, 2013
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      I presume 'hydrate lime' is also called hydraulic lime??

      I'm thinking Kyle meant what we call in the USA "hydrated lime", which consists mostly of calcium hydroxide. As opposed to quicklime, which consists mostly of calcium oxide. Also opposed to hydraulic lime, which may contain aluminum, silicon, phosphorous, iron, and other minerals which allow it to set up under water.

      In North America, hydrated lime is often sold as "type N" or "type S". Slaked lime and lime putty are also hydrated lime. Hydrated lime can remain active for a while in the situations that Kyle and Chris Green outlined. Slowly, the hydrated lime powder would absorb carbon dioxide from the air, and become calcium carbonate. I'm guessing that hydraulic lime might react more quickly with available moisture, and become relatively inert, decreasing its effectiveness as an insect deterrent. Even for hydrated lime, I'm not sure you would get more than a few years of anti-insect activity.

      Derek

      Derek Roff
      derek@...<mailto:derek@...>




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    • Nancy or David Gray
      ... From: chrisg Subject: [SB-r-us] Re: Hi ! From Tokyo , Japan To: Jun , SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com Date:
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 1, 2013
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        --- On Wed, 2/27/13, chrisg <pojeros@...> wrote:

        From: chrisg <pojeros@...>
        Subject: [SB-r-us] Re: Hi ! From Tokyo , Japan
        To: "Jun" <jun.warashibe@...>, SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2013, 7:27 AM
















         









        Kyle said:



        > > 5. Hydrate lime is dusted between bale courses to deter insects or fungi already contained in the bales. This is the first time I've done this. A good friend in Korea swears by it.<



        I thought of a simple way to test how well the 'hydrate lime' might work:



        Find a suitable flat and level piece of ground, ideally one with insects. place a bale, then sprinkle it with the dust. Place another bale on top of that, and sprinkle that. Cover the assembly with a tarp to keep off the rain.



        After a period of time, inspect the bales to see how far insects have penetrated upwards, and if they have passed the lime barrier.



        A control stack would be in order, one without the lime layers.



        A third stack could be sprinkled with a mix of lime and Borax, since that keeps insects away as well.



        The stacks should have some room between them, maybe 2-3'. And the tarp tightly covering the stack, say by tying it tightly around the bottom bale with rope.



        The stacks could be given a coat of clay render, to keep the insects from entering the bales sideways, and a 4th (and 5th) stack could also have the lime or lime/borax mix under the first bale.



        I don't know how often the bales should be inspected, or how long this experiment should be conducted.



        I presume 'hydrate lime' is also called hydraulic lime??



        Cheers,



        Chris Green.



























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      • Nancy or David Gray
        Whoops, my fingers got itchy while my brain was in neutral.   I was going to say add  one more test of borax only.   And for a quick gauge, one could
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 1, 2013
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          Whoops, my fingers got itchy while my brain was in neutral.   I was going to say add  one more 'test' of borax only.   And for a quick gauge, one could just sprinkle the various permutations on some bugs, say, crickets, sowbugs, earwigs, and whatever. 
          Diatomaceous earth also is supposed to have bugicidal properties due to scratching the exoskeleton thus leading to dehydration.  David G.

          --- On Wed, 2/27/13, chrisg <pojeros@...> wrote:

          From: chrisg <pojeros@...>
          Subject: [SB-r-us] Re: Hi ! From Tokyo , Japan
          To: "Jun" <jun.warashibe@...>, SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2013, 7:27 AM
















           









          Kyle said:



          > > 5. Hydrate lime is dusted between bale courses to deter insects or fungi already contained in the bales. This is the first time I've done this. A good friend in Korea swears by it.<



          I thought of a simple way to test how well the 'hydrate lime' might work:



          Find a suitable flat and level piece of ground, ideally one with insects. place a bale, then sprinkle it with the dust. Place another bale on top of that, and sprinkle that. Cover the assembly with a tarp to keep off the rain.



          After a period of time, inspect the bales to see how far insects have penetrated upwards, and if they have passed the lime barrier.



          A control stack would be in order, one without the lime layers.



          A third stack could be sprinkled with a mix of lime and Borax, since that keeps insects away as well.



          The stacks should have some room between them, maybe 2-3'. And the tarp tightly covering the stack, say by tying it tightly around the bottom bale with rope.



          The stacks could be given a coat of clay render, to keep the insects from entering the bales sideways, and a 4th (and 5th) stack could also have the lime or lime/borax mix under the first bale.



          I don't know how often the bales should be inspected, or how long this experiment should be conducted.



          I presume 'hydrate lime' is also called hydraulic lime??



          Cheers,



          Chris Green.



























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kyle Holzhueter
          Chris, that would be an interesting experiment. Derek, thank you for the clarification regarding hydrated lime. Although not pleasant to powder between courses
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 2, 2013
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            Chris, that would be an interesting experiment.
            Derek, thank you for the clarification regarding hydrated lime.
            Although not pleasant to powder between courses of bales, I think that the
            hydrated lime would be helpful, though I can't say to what extent. As a
            part of my research, I've monitored interstitial temperature and relative
            humidity of more than a dozen straw bale buildings in Japan. I've found
            that it generally takes about a year for earthen plastered bale walls to
            dry out, and more than a year for walls finished with lime. That is,
            although the plaster may look dry after a month, much of the moisture from
            the plaster is held in the bale wall for months after plastering. For a
            properly designed and built wall, this is the most moisture a wall will
            ever experience. Even if the hydrated lime only remains active for a year
            or two, it is during the most critical stage. I've seen several bale
            buildings where insects were a problem the following spring, but not seen
            after that. The hydrated lime might be helpful in these cases. (Just a
            side note, I think in one case the insects were brought in with the earth).
            Also, the alkalinity of the lime would be helpful for deterring mold, at
            least to a very small extent.


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