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Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania

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  • Chris Green
    There s some nice straw bale eye candy in the gallery of this Lithuanian company. http://www.ecococon.lt/en/straw-houses/gallery/ Ecococon  has an interesting
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 12, 2013
      There's some nice straw bale eye candy in the gallery of this Lithuanian company.
      http://www.ecococon.lt/en/straw-houses/gallery/

      Ecococon  has an interesting approach to pre-fab straw bale panels. I hadn't seen 3', bale-length panels before.

      And there are some subtle touches in their finishing work, as well: see photo 15 in the Pievos gallery. The left hand bottom side of the wall seems to have a little curved kickout to deflect water away from the foundation.

      Photos 7, 8, and 9 in the same gallery show what I'd call straw bale insulated trussed headers (for lack of a better term) above the windows and other  large openings. (Personally, I'd put some cripples under the headers to carry the load a bit better).

      I came across this at the NaturalHomes.org  facebook page titled Talking Natural Homes.
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/naturalhomes/

      A belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

      Cheers,

      Chris Green.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nancy or David Gray
      Thanks for the link Chris.  Lots of wood in those homes, and looks like lots of thermal bridging possible in those panels.  But I m speaking as a
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 13, 2013
        Thanks for the link Chris.  Lots of wood in those homes, and looks like lots of thermal bridging possible in those panels.  But I'm speaking as a load-bearing freak who wants the bales to do what they do best, which is stack.  David

        --- On Sat, 1/12/13, Chris Green <pojeros@...> wrote:

        From: Chris Green <pojeros@...>
        Subject: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania
        To: "SB-r-us" <SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com>, "Practical SBC" <practical-sbc@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Saturday, January 12, 2013, 8:17 AM
















         









        There's some nice straw bale eye candy in the gallery of this Lithuanian company.

        http://www.ecococon.lt/en/straw-houses/gallery/



        Ecococon  has an interesting approach to pre-fab straw bale panels. I hadn't seen 3', bale-length panels before.



        And there are some subtle touches in their finishing work, as well: see photo 15 in the Pievos gallery. The left hand bottom side of the wall seems to have a little curved kickout to deflect water away from the foundation.



        Photos 7, 8, and 9 in the same gallery show what I'd call straw bale insulated trussed headers (for lack of a better term) above the windows and other  large openings. (Personally, I'd put some cripples under the headers to carry the load a bit better).



        I came across this at the NaturalHomes.org  facebook page titled Talking Natural Homes.

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/naturalhomes/



        A belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.



        Cheers,



        Chris Green.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • avjyoung@shaw.ca
        I am looking for advice on a good way to do downspouts on our SB wall. The spout drains a big section of roof above (30 x20 ) and we get up to 5 rain a day
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 13, 2013
          I am looking for advice on a good way to do downspouts on our SB wall. The
          spout drains a big section of roof above (30'x20') and we get up to 5" rain
          a day sometimes, being in a rainforest. We have the spout tucking in under
          the overhang and fastened directly to the bale wall plaster like we have
          seen/heard of at present, but given the potential for a horrible soaking of
          the bale wall if something goes wrong with the downspout in a storm, I would
          like to install something that is more resilient. Any thoughts, links or
          photos would be much appreciated,

          Many thanks,

          Anna
          cob/SB timberframe in Victoria BC



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Nancy or David Gray
          Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:43 AM
          To: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania

          Thanks for the link Chris. Lots of wood in those homes, and looks like lots
          of thermal bridging possible in those panels. But I'm speaking as a
          load-bearing freak who wants the bales to do what they do best, which is
          stack. David

          --- On Sat, 1/12/13, Chris Green <pojeros@...> wrote:

          From: Chris Green <pojeros@...>
          Subject: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania
          To: "SB-r-us" <SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com>, "Practical SBC"
          <practical-sbc@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Saturday, January 12, 2013, 8:17 AM


























          There's some nice straw bale eye candy in the gallery of this
          Lithuanian company.

          http://www.ecococon.lt/en/straw-houses/gallery/



          Ecococon has an interesting approach to pre-fab straw bale panels. I hadn't
          seen 3', bale-length panels before.



          And there are some subtle touches in their finishing work, as well: see
          photo 15 in the Pievos gallery. The left hand bottom side of the wall seems
          to have a little curved kickout to deflect water away from the foundation.



          Photos 7, 8, and 9 in the same gallery show what I'd call straw bale
          insulated trussed headers (for lack of a better term) above the windows and
          other large openings. (Personally, I'd put some cripples under the headers
          to carry the load a bit better).



          I came across this at the NaturalHomes.org facebook page titled Talking
          Natural Homes.

          https://www.facebook.com/groups/naturalhomes/



          A belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.



          Cheers,



          Chris Green.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • John Glassford
          G day Been a while since I posted here, it has been very quiet though. Thanks Chris for the link to the panels in Lithuania. I too am a load bearing or
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 13, 2013
            G ' day

            Been a while since I posted here, it has been very quiet though.

            Thanks Chris for the link to the panels in Lithuania.

            I too am a load bearing or hybrid aficionado. As you know we are
            developing and putting up panel structures we call
            SITUPS<http://glassford.com.au/main/sit-up-example/situps-into-action/>
            .

            As for thermal bridging as long as the panel frame is made from timber I
            see no problems, especially in our climate here Down Under.

            I am reliably informed that timber rates at R 1 per inch so with a panel
            16" thick that gives us R 16. Correct me if I am wrong. We estimate our
            SITUPS to give R 7 -9 based on extrapolation. We need to do more work on
            this one day soon.

            We see the SITUPS as being one way to encourage professional builders to
            take up straw bale as an alternative to bricks and mortar. Time will tell.
            Our SITUPS are load bearing and go up real fast!

            Anyhow good to see this list up and running again.

            It has been super HOT here for the past 2 weeks more to come.

            Our home is working well without air con and last week we hit 38C++ for 10
            days with the hottest day 43.5C. The internal temp never went above 28C
            over the period. We have a cool change today and the building is now at
            18.5C however we are in for another week of high 30s and higher.

            No bush fires here or grass fires but plenty of fires in New South Wales,
            Victoria and Tasmania. Have not heard of any problems in the fires with
            straw bale buildings as yet.

            Happy New Year to you all!

            Kind regards
            Susan and John Glassford
            Huff 'n' Puff Constructions
            http://www.glassford.com.au
            61 2 6927 6027
            In Australia (02) 6927 6027

            The Orphan Rescue Kit:
            http://theork.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nancy or David Gray
            Wolf, so good to hear that the fires have not torched your area.  When I heard that even Tasmania was not immune, I was worried indeed.  Also good to hear
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 13, 2013
              Wolf, so good to hear that the fires have not torched your area.  When I heard that even Tasmania was not immune, I was worried indeed. 
              Also good to hear your panels are load bearing, which the Lithuania ones did not seem to be.  Not so good to hear the R-value may not resonate for northern climes.
              I will just wryly note that the bale is already user friendly in the form it leaves the baler and does need any kind of high or low tech manipulations to make a home.  I am hard core and if you need a panel then get one of the stupid ones to be found in our good United States Senate to help you.  You will be pooping corn cobs soon.  David G.

              --- On Sun, 1/13/13, John Glassford <jacksflat@...> wrote:

              From: John Glassford <jacksflat@...>
              Subject: Re: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania
              To: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, January 13, 2013, 6:08 PM
















               









              G ' day



              Been a while since I posted here, it has been very quiet though.



              Thanks Chris for the link to the panels in Lithuania.



              I too am a load bearing or hybrid aficionado. As you know we are

              developing and putting up panel structures we call

              SITUPShttp://glassford.com.au/main/sit-up-example/situps-into-action/>

              .



              As for thermal bridging as long as the panel frame is made from timber I

              see no problems, especially in our climate here Down Under.



              I am reliably informed that timber rates at R 1 per inch so with a panel

              16" thick that gives us R 16. Correct me if I am wrong. We estimate our

              SITUPS to give R 7 -9 based on extrapolation. We need to do more work on

              this one day soon.



              We see the SITUPS as being one way to encourage professional builders to

              take up straw bale as an alternative to bricks and mortar. Time will tell.

              Our SITUPS are load bearing and go up real fast!



              Anyhow good to see this list up and running again.



              It has been super HOT here for the past 2 weeks more to come.



              Our home is working well without air con and last week we hit 38C++ for 10

              days with the hottest day 43.5C. The internal temp never went above 28C

              over the period. We have a cool change today and the building is now at

              18.5C however we are in for another week of high 30s and higher.



              No bush fires here or grass fires but plenty of fires in New South Wales,

              Victoria and Tasmania. Have not heard of any problems in the fires with

              straw bale buildings as yet.



              Happy New Year to you all!



              Kind regards

              Susan and John Glassford

              Huff 'n' Puff Constructions

              http://www.glassford.com.au

              61 2 6927 6027

              In Australia (02) 6927 6027



              The Orphan Rescue Kit:

              http://theork.com



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Glassford
              G day David I am all for owner builder load bearing homes built with love and for the right reasons. However if we are to be fair dinkum about
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 13, 2013
                G ' day David

                I am all for owner builder load bearing homes built with love and for the
                right reasons. However if we are to be fair dinkum about sustainability
                then we need to get main stream builders interested in straw no matter
                which way it is built. I know that around the big state of New South
                Wales there will be a lot of burning of straw this year, once the summer is
                over. What a waste!

                Mate do not get me going on your Congress, they are as bad as our lot.

                Tassie as we call her is not immune from bush fires and now they, the
                media, are blaming the greenies for these fires down there. The right wing
                conservatives in Tassie have been shackled by the green movement there in
                not allowing burn off in winter of the huge amount of dry fuel that has
                been accumulating. Current government is a Labour/Green coalition.

                Burn offs in winter kill other fauna and rare species but without burning
                off each winter the humans become vulnerable in summer as with this summer.

                Anyway we are in a federal election year now and I do not care for any of
                them and as always it is the bureaucrats that run this country, just like
                they do on the UK and maybe even the US of A. You only have to watch Yes
                Minister to work that out.

                We are in for a very busy year conducting workshops for owner builders but
                the bureaucrats are making it harder and harder for owner builders these
                days be it bricks or straw bales. Time for a revolution!!! Then we do not
                have any guns maybe a green revolution with straw bales going up
                everywhere. When we were in California back when I remember the Straw Dogs
                Turko and mob saying that a straw bale wall could take a bullet or two. I
                wonder?

                Having fun yet!

                The Straw Wolf
                Huff 'n' Puff Constructions
                http://www.glassford.com.au
                61 2 6927 6027
                In Australia (02) 6927 6027


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nancy or David Gray
                As for straw stopping a bullet or two, I m counting on it.  Used to be I wanted to drop a load of pig manure at the various political doors, but straw bales
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 13, 2013
                  As for straw stopping a bullet or two, I'm counting on it.  Used to be I wanted to drop a load of pig manure at the various political doors, but straw bales will do, and I would be the cleaner for it. 
                  If you can't make a case for a a bale as a basic building block that needs no lipstick, then you are talking to blockheads who would put lipstick on a pig. 
                  And now we have come full around, end for end, as it were. 
                  Hope the fires stay clear of you and all.  David

                  --- On Sun, 1/13/13, John Glassford <jacksflat@...> wrote:

                  From: John Glassford <jacksflat@...>
                  Subject: Re: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania
                  To: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, January 13, 2013, 8:20 PM
















                   









                  G ' day David



                  I am all for owner builder load bearing homes built with love and for the

                  right reasons. However if we are to be fair dinkum about sustainability

                  then we need to get main stream builders interested in straw no matter

                  which way it is built. I know that around the big state of New South

                  Wales there will be a lot of burning of straw this year, once the summer is

                  over. What a waste!



                  Mate do not get me going on your Congress, they are as bad as our lot.



                  Tassie as we call her is not immune from bush fires and now they, the

                  media, are blaming the greenies for these fires down there. The right wing

                  conservatives in Tassie have been shackled by the green movement there in

                  not allowing burn off in winter of the huge amount of dry fuel that has

                  been accumulating. Current government is a Labour/Green coalition.



                  Burn offs in winter kill other fauna and rare species but without burning

                  off each winter the humans become vulnerable in summer as with this summer.



                  Anyway we are in a federal election year now and I do not care for any of

                  them and as always it is the bureaucrats that run this country, just like

                  they do on the UK and maybe even the US of A. You only have to watch Yes

                  Minister to work that out.



                  We are in for a very busy year conducting workshops for owner builders but

                  the bureaucrats are making it harder and harder for owner builders these

                  days be it bricks or straw bales. Time for a revolution!!! Then we do not

                  have any guns maybe a green revolution with straw bales going up

                  everywhere. When we were in California back when I remember the Straw Dogs

                  Turko and mob saying that a straw bale wall could take a bullet or two. I

                  wonder?



                  Having fun yet!



                  The Straw Wolf

                  Huff 'n' Puff Constructions

                  http://www.glassford.com.au

                  61 2 6927 6027

                  In Australia (02) 6927 6027



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sarah Kopp
                  I don t like the idea of the spout attached to the bale wall s plaster - any compromise of the plaster surface is an invitation to water to get in and wet the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 14, 2013
                    I don't like the idea of the spout attached to the bale wall's plaster - any compromise of the plaster surface is an invitation to water to get in and wet the bales. I am from the PNW and remember houses with a chain extending from the gutter straight down to the ground to direct water to the drains - would that work for you?

                    BTW, here in Israel no one uses gutters or downspouts - the water just drips of the roof all around - it's not a problem except at the entrywasy where the roof should be designed to shed water to the sides of the doorway.

                    Sarah

                    Strawbale Guesthouse and

                    Goat Dairy

                    www.strawbaleguesthouse.com

                    --- On Sun, 1/13/13, avjyoung@... <avjyoung@...> wrote:

                    From: avjyoung@... <avjyoung@...>
                    Subject: [SB-r-us] Advice on guttering and downspouts for SB wall
                    To: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, January 13, 2013, 10:05 PM
















                     









                    I am looking for advice on a good way to do downspouts on our SB wall. The

                    spout drains a big section of roof above (30'x20') and we get up to 5" rain

                    a day sometimes, being in a rainforest. We have the spout tucking in under

                    the overhang and fastened directly to the bale wall plaster like we have

                    seen/heard of at present, but given the potential for a horrible soaking of

                    the bale wall if something goes wrong with the downspout in a storm, I would

                    like to install something that is more resilient. Any thoughts, links or

                    photos would be much appreciated,



                    Many thanks,



                    Anna

                    cob/SB timberframe in Victoria BC



                    -----Original Message-----

                    From: Nancy or David Gray

                    Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:43 AM

                    To: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com

                    Subject: Re: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania



                    Thanks for the link Chris. Lots of wood in those homes, and looks like lots

                    of thermal bridging possible in those panels. But I'm speaking as a

                    load-bearing freak who wants the bales to do what they do best, which is

                    stack. David



                    --- On Sat, 1/12/13, Chris Green pojeros@...> wrote:



                    From: Chris Green pojeros@...>

                    Subject: [SB-r-us] Pre-fab straw bale panels used in Lithuania

                    To: "SB-r-us" SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com>, "Practical SBC"

                    practical-sbc@yahoogroups.com>

                    Date: Saturday, January 12, 2013, 8:17 AM



                    There's some nice straw bale eye candy in the gallery of this

                    Lithuanian company.



                    http://www.ecococon.lt/en/straw-houses/gallery/



                    Ecococon has an interesting approach to pre-fab straw bale panels. I hadn't

                    seen 3', bale-length panels before.



                    And there are some subtle touches in their finishing work, as well: see

                    photo 15 in the Pievos gallery. The left hand bottom side of the wall seems

                    to have a little curved kickout to deflect water away from the foundation.



                    Photos 7, 8, and 9 in the same gallery show what I'd call straw bale

                    insulated trussed headers (for lack of a better term) above the windows and

                    other large openings. (Personally, I'd put some cripples under the headers

                    to carry the load a bit better).



                    I came across this at the NaturalHomes.org facebook page titled Talking

                    Natural Homes.



                    https://www.facebook.com/groups/naturalhomes/



                    A belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.



                    Cheers,



                    Chris Green.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------



                    Yahoo! Groups Links



























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Derek Roff
                    How wide are your overhangs? I like at least two feet, and possibly more in a rainy location like yours. Brining all that water back under the overhang in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 14, 2013
                      How wide are your overhangs? I like at least two feet, and possibly more in a rainy location like yours. Brining all that water back under the overhang in downspout seems very imprudent to me, just as you say. Where do you route the water once it gets to ground level? The use of chains instead of downspouts reduces clogging and freezing risks, but increases splashback, and makes the water stream vulnerable to the wind during its descent from the roof edge.

                      A 600 sq ft section of roof receiving 5" of rain will drain about 2000 gallons. Obviously, that's a tremendous amount of water, and should be kept well clear of the house. Dividing the water may be better than concentrating it. Assuming you have the drainage taken care of at and below ground level, I'd be tempted to bring the water down from the roof edge in two or three locations. Depending on your design, you might be able to install some vertical posts near the overhang's edge, and mount the downspouts to those posts. Can you post pictures of your house, and the area that you are planning for downspouts?

                      Derek Roff
                      derek@...


                      > I am looking for advice on a good way to do downspouts on our SB wall. The
                      > spout drains a big section of roof above (30'x20') and we get up to 5" rain
                      > a day sometimes, being in a rainforest. We have the spout tucking in under
                      > the overhang and fastened directly to the bale wall plaster like we have
                      > seen/heard of at present, but given the potential for a horrible soaking of
                      > the bale wall if something goes wrong with the downspout in a storm, I would
                      > like to install something that is more resilient. Any thoughts, links or
                      > photos would be much appreciated,
                      >
                      > Many thanks,
                      >
                      > Anna
                      > cob/SB timberframe in Victoria BC







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • chapternovice
                      Thanks Derek and Sarah for your responses. Sorry for the delay in replying, it has taken a while to get pictures and upload them to the files section. Our
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 19, 2013
                        Thanks Derek and Sarah for your responses. Sorry for the delay in replying,
                        it has taken a while to get pictures and upload them to the files section.
                        Our overhang on that side is about four feet. Once the water gets to ground
                        level we are required by code to route it down to sea level in an enclosed
                        pipe as it's a steep slope area. I am reluctant to use chains there because
                        of the splashback; we usually get wind along with the rain. I would rather
                        enclose the water as soon as possible, to stop it causing trouble.... The
                        bales there are about 15' high, so plenty of room for splashes.

                        I would like to keep the downspouts close to the deck to make cleanout easy,
                        as we get covered in fir needles from the trees and have to clear the tops
                        of the downspouts multiple times per season. I think what I would like to do
                        is double up the downspout and bring it down by the side of the deck, well
                        away from the bale wall. The deck is waterproofed and will be tiled etc, so
                        much more resistant to a soaking than the wall...

                        Many thanks for the input,

                        Anna
                      • RT
                        in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SB-r-us/message/16171 ... [snapshot at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SB-r-us/files/Moisture/IMG_5393.JPG ] ... Hi Anna and SB
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 24, 2013
                          in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SB-r-us/message/16171
                          Anna on Victoria Island, (British Columbia, Canada) wrote :

                          > ... we get up to 5" rain a day sometime

                          > We have the spout tucking in under the overhang and fastened directly to
                          > thebale wall plaster
                          [snapshot at
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SB-r-us/files/Moisture/IMG_5393.JPG ]

                          > ... but given the potential for a horrible soaking of the bale wall if
                          > something
                          > goes wrong with the downspout in a storm, I would like to install
                          > something that is more resilient.

                          Hi Anna and SB Yahoos;

                          My guess is that conventional gutters and downspouts (of the type shown in
                          the posted snapshot) are easily inundated (or overshot ?) during a heavy
                          rain of the sort you mention.

                          Furthermore, given the setting (coniferous woods) and configuration of the
                          downspout (ie buried), my guess is that the downspouts are quickly
                          rendered dysfunctional by a heavy rain and/or getting clogged with needles
                          ... at a minimum resulting in the eavestroughs filling up and spilling
                          over in an uncontrolled fashion (thereby defeating the intention of the
                          Code requirement for the enclosed conductor pipe) and potentially causing
                          problems with splashback and/or foundation damage in addition to the soil
                          erosion/runoff issues.

                          I'm not very familiar with the climate of your locale other than thinking
                          of it as being in the Banana Belt of Canada (it was about minus 40 with
                          windchill here in Kanata this morning and yesterday morning) so I don't
                          know how often you experience freezing temperatures if at all.

                          But I can tell you that if your downspout & conductor set-up were done on
                          a house in my locale, the conductor pipe would almost surely self-destruct
                          in the first winter, being blown apart by frost action after the water
                          inside froze up at some point where a clog (gradual ice build-up and/or
                          debris) formed.

                          And if the roof cladding were metal, one would surely be picking up the
                          eavestrough from the ground after every winter, it having been torn off by
                          snow accumulations sliding off.

                          These are just a few of the reasons that I tend to avoid the use of
                          conventional eavestroughs and conductors. They are a high maintenance item
                          that only works marginally well and only during tame rain events.

                          The only place I use conventional (ie 4" or 5") eavestrough is on lower
                          level auxiliary roofs (ie brise de soleil, porch roofs etc.) and if
                          possible omit the conductor pipes, having the troughs emptying directly
                          (via a chain or such-like) into rain barrels or a pond. If into rain
                          barrels, the barrels are elevated so that the drop is seldom more than 1.5
                          metres and the chain/rain leader is sheltered from winds by shrubbery. If
                          a pond, the pond is far enough away from the house that wind-blown dribble
                          isn't an issue.

                          All around the foundation perimeter, I like to use a stone plinth
                          (comprised of 5/8" or larger crushed stone or rounded river stone) over
                          top of a clay cap (clay cap steeply sloped to drain away from the
                          foundation) extending out from the foundation to beyond the drip zone of
                          the eaves above.

                          I lay a continuous sheet of agricultural black polyethylene (6 mil or
                          thicker) over the clay cap weighted down at the outside edge by "curb"
                          stones before placing the crushed stone or river stone. The separation
                          sheet prevents intermingling of the clay and stone so that clay fines do
                          not clog up the interstitial voids in the stone and subsequently
                          inhibiting drainage. (There is also a filter fabric placed between the
                          clay cap/backfill and the granular drainage material below grade around
                          the base of the foundation for the same reason).

                          One could, if desired, design/detail the plinth so that runoff would be
                          directed to a holding pond or dry well (ie as in Annas situation ?) rather
                          than just letting it feed the soil and vegetation beyond the edge of the
                          plinth.

                          For areas where an "eavestrough" is necessary to control runoff from an
                          upper storey roof (ie adjacent to a walkway) I have in the past, site-made
                          approx. 2 ft-wide by 4 or 6 inch-deep "gutters" integrated into overhead
                          canopies for the walkway using standard 3 ft wide galvalume flat stock
                          that is readily available at most building supply outlets in 8 or 10 ft
                          lengths. ie Width dependent upon height/detail of upstand on longitudinal
                          edges of the pans, subtracted from un-cut width of sheet stock. Flat sheet
                          stock is also available in 4 ft widths but not very common, so wider
                          "gutters" would be possible.

                          Then again, I'm speaking from Ontario experience which may be not at all
                          applicable to the BC experience so I may just be blowing borborygmi out of
                          my hat (again)... which is why I've copied good ol' Habib Gonzales, the
                          Godfather of the Pacific Northwest SB family, who will hopefully
                          straighten me out if necessary.

                          --
                          === * ===
                          Rob Tom AOD257
                          Kanata, Ontario, Canada

                          < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
                          (manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply")
                        • Habib John Gonzalez
                          Hello Anna and Rob: A useful gutter/downspout configuration for BC coastal or Interior Rainforest bioregions such as the Kootenays is a straight drop downspout
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 24, 2013
                            Hello Anna and Rob:

                            A useful gutter/downspout configuration for BC coastal or Interior
                            Rainforest bioregions such as the Kootenays is a straight drop downspout or
                            conductor from the edge of the three foot overhangs of the plastered bale
                            home. The standard round thin wall plastic downspout can be replaced with a
                            heavier single length of 40 or 80 gauge PVC pipe fastened with a hose clamp
                            to a metal stake deeply set into the soil.

                            This is the method I used for the roof catchment water system on my Kootenay
                            home. The 1500 sqft of steep metal roof feeds 90 linear feet of gutters
                            fitted with 9 feet of brush like filters above the two downspouts. The
                            gutters need cleaning at least twice a year. After freeze-up, the downspouts
                            are removed to prevent ice damage.

                            At the highest point of the set-up, the gutters are fastened at least 2
                            inches below the lower edge of the metal roof and have not been damaged by
                            the heavy slow slides off the roof in the last eight years. The details of
                            this system were the result of a number of experiments and changes over the
                            first few years of use.


                            All the best,

                            Habib



                            *****************************************
                            SUSTAINABLEWORKS
                            Habib John L Gonzalez
                            250-359-5095
                            780-438-0821
                            www.sustainableworks.ca
                            *****************************************

                            "Better the kindness of imperfection than perfection without kindness"
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: RT
                            Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:13 AM
                            To: SB Yahoos
                            Subject: Re: [SB-r-Us] Advice on guttering and downspouts for SB wall

                            in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SB-r-us/message/16171
                            Anna on Victoria Island, (British Columbia, Canada) wrote :

                            > ... we get up to 5" rain a day sometime

                            > We have the spout tucking in under the overhang and fastened directly to
                            > thebale wall plaster
                            [snapshot at
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SB-r-us/files/Moisture/IMG_5393.JPG ]

                            > ... but given the potential for a horrible soaking of the bale wall if
                            > something
                            > goes wrong with the downspout in a storm, I would like to install
                            > something that is more resilient.
                          • Peter/Pam Martin
                            ... I m a stone s throw from you and the local climate normals for this area may be worth considering: over the past 40 years, the single day max rainfall was
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 26, 2013
                              At 12:05 PM 1/13/2013, Anna wrote:
                              >I am looking for advice on a good way to do downspouts on our SB wall. The
                              >spout drains a big section of roof above (30'x20') and we get up to 5" rain
                              >a day sometimes, being in a rainforest. We have the spout tucking in under
                              >the overhang and fastened directly to the bale wall plaster like we have
                              >seen/heard of at present, but given the potential for a horrible soaking of
                              >the bale wall if something goes wrong with the downspout in a storm, I would
                              >like to install something that is more resilient. Any thoughts, links or
                              >photos would be much appreciated,

                              I'm a stone's throw from you and the local
                              climate normals for this area may be worth
                              considering: over the past 40 years, the single
                              day max rainfall was 114mm, yearly there were 8
                              days of rainfall >25mm, the single day max
                              snowfall was 42cm, the extreme daily snow depth
                              was 98cm, and even though the record low was
                              -14.5°C, the average low for the coldest month
                              was 0.1°C for example. Thus, even though extreme
                              (from Victoria's point of view) weather is
                              possible, it is not common. Climate change models
                              for our area predict milder and wetter winters.

                              It is usual here to have 5" continuous aluminum
                              gutters with 2"x3" aluminum downspouts leading to
                              a solid ABS or PVC perimeter drain system that
                              leads away from the house. The gutters may also
                              have some sort of leaf guard system or downspout
                              clean outs. I think a system like this would
                              suffice, perhaps having more downspouts than
                              usual, and standing the downspouts off the bale
                              wall with a spacer mounted as high up as
                              possible. Periodic inspection of the gutter seams
                              and outlets, and downspout joints would be de
                              rigeur. For a standing seam metal roof, one may
                              use snow stops or guards to prevent sliding snow
                              from ripping the gutters off. I have just such a
                              roof, gutter and drain system and it has
                              performed admirably for many years. Hope this helps. Peter.
                            • RT
                              On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:10:57 -0500, Habib John Gonzalez ... A thought for a variation on HabiBro s note above: Perhaps a gate or arbour could be built at the
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 29, 2013
                                On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 00:10:57 -0500, Habib John Gonzalez
                                <habibg@...> wrote:


                                > A useful gutter/downspout configuration for BC coastal or Interior
                                > Rainforest bioregions such as the Kootenays is a straight drop downspout
                                > or conductor from the edge of the three foot overhangs of the plastered
                                > bale home. The standard round thin wall plastic downspout can be
                                > replaced with a heavier single length of 40 or 80 gauge PVC pipe
                                > fastened with a hose clamp to a metal stake deeply set into the soil.

                                A thought for a variation on HabiBro's note above:

                                Perhaps a gate or arbour could be built at the corner of the house where
                                the snapshot depicts a conductor pipe running down the side of the house
                                and planted into the ground.

                                I would use stone or masonry but wood would be fine too.

                                The gate or arbour would be located such that it would support an approx.
                                2 ft-wide trough over the arch, the trough integrated into the overhead
                                trellis framing so as to be unnoticeable as such.

                                The existing conductor pipe would be removed so that the downspout would
                                empty directly into the arbour-trough.
                                In fact, I'd go so far as to cover-over the downspout completely and
                                remove the end cap on the eavestrough.

                                This would eliminate the spectre of coniferous needles clogging the
                                downspout and conductor pipe ensuring that drainage of the eavestroughs
                                would never be compromised so long as the slope of the troughs is
                                maintained.

                                The outflow from the arbour-trough could be directed to a stepped-stone
                                waterfall down to ground level ...or if the Code requires the downflow to
                                be enclosed, into a large diameter hollow-core column ... like a mini silo
                                -- something big enough to climb inside of if necessary for
                                servicing/maintenance.

                                The mini-silo could be made to store water if desired or it could be
                                directed into drainage pipes or a dry well.

                                The mini-silo could be a piece of culvert stood on end ... or it could be
                                masonry ... or it could be salvaged tempered glass (ie constructed like an
                                aquarium) ... or whatever suitable item that might catch your eye at the
                                local recycling/re-use yard.

                                Of course, the mini-silo could be concealed behind shrubbery if desired.

                                *

                                And I second the motion to send out a BOLO for bbbBob Bolles.
                                My guess is that Preston of the Mojave plastered ol' bbbBob into a wall
                                and forgot where.


                                --
                                === * ===
                                Rob Tom AOD257
                                Kanata, Ontario, Canada

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