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Re: [SB-r-us] How to do this? (Post/Beam) Pole Building bale house

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  • Speireag Alden
    ... That would work. ... You d have to detail the joint. In a heating climate, far better to have that joint on the outside of the wall than on the inside.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2008
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      On 2007, Dec 25, at 12:25, Erin wrote:

      > Maybe creosote poles on the exterior, with the bale wall butting up
      > against them?

      That would work.

      > What would that do to our render, though?

      You'd have to detail the joint. In a heating climate, far
      better to have that joint on the outside of the wall than on the
      inside. One of the biggest mistakes I made was breaking up the
      interior stucco walls with joints for the frame. I have never gotten
      this house sealed properly, in large part because I did not
      understand this detail.

      > Would it
      > crack wherever a bale butts up against an exterior pole?

      No, it will just pull away from the pole, leaving a small gap.
      You can stuff the gap with a bit more stucco and then put the next
      coat over top of the joint.

      > Or would we
      > want to try to inset them into the bale somehow, if they were small
      > enough to do so?

      They probably will be big enough. Posts seldom need to be
      bigger than 6x6, though they often are for aesthetic reasons. So you
      could bury them in the wall and have the bales running around on all
      sides.

      -Speireag.
    • joeyfontane
      I would be very careful about the wood that you use. Creosote wold cause premature deterioration of the plaster that is up against it. I us 4x4 Posts with
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 6, 2008
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        I would be very careful about the wood that you use. Creosote wold
        cause premature deterioration of the plaster that is up against it. I
        us 4x4 Posts with some kind of laminated beam then tie each course of
        bales to the post with expanded metal lath and garden staples as per
        our local code. Even without the code I would do this. Also, the IRC
        2003 requires that all wood used as structure to have a vapor barrier.
        I use 30 lb roofing felt to wrap the posts then use expanded metal
        lath to bridge the post and bale transitions and extend it 6"-10"
        beyond the edge of all posts and staple only to bales with landscape
        staples.
      • Robert Merrill
        Hi Erin & All;
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 22, 2008
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          Hi Erin & All;

          <<<<I want to build a 1.5 story house with maybe a 2-3' kneewall in the
          loft. Approximately 28x36>>>>


          A type of structure you describe has a picture over in the photos
          section under "NEW- ARK Institute." A better description can be found in
          the "Yahoo Groups" (PAPERCRETERS) under Hybrid Habitat in the files
          section. More photos are there also.

          <<<<<For cost & ease of construction>>>>>

          Yes, in regards to user friendliness and efficiency this design
          outperforms anything I have built or seen built. The solarium and
          cavities of rocks under the floor (see P.A.H.S.) are worth the added
          expense.


          >>> want creosote treated poles <<<<<

          The posts had no need for creasote because they set on concrete piers.
          The exposed surface got a shot of linseed oil. But, the extensive
          overhangs really address this anyway.

          >>>>>>to our render, though? Would it
          crack wherever a bale butts up against an exterior pole? >>>>>>

          As with the window and door bucks .... attaching stucco netting so that
          it is later joined (wrapped) to the bales with mortar deals with this
          issue .

          <<<<<butting up against them? >>>>><<<<<

          The posts were deliberately spaced to snuggly accept average bale
          lengths inserted between them. Three bales on edge filled the 12'
          spaces. We were carefull to install vapor barriers between R.E.T.'s and
          the bales. The increase in ridgiditity was noticed immediately... and
          increased with each lift of stucco.

          <<<<<floor joists in the bale wall?>>>>>

          The heighth of the loft floor was predetermined to accept exactly 3
          course high of bale wall (bales-on-edge). Then, on the floor of the loft
          the bales are continued as the knee walls. This is possible because the
          bales set on "Rammed Earth Tires" (footer). Also because the bales are
          not pinned at the top course..... all bails are matrixed in mortar.
          Matrix is the surrounding of an object.... brick, block, etc. with a
          traditional mortar technique.

          Now that this structure has lived thru many seasons.......... few are
          the things I would change!

          Take
          Care........... Bob M.


          --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, "Erin" <thebackgate31@...> wrote:
          >
          > I want to build a 1.5 story house with maybe a 2-3' kneewall in the
          > loft. Approximately 28x36
          > For cost & ease of construction, I've been looking at framing the
          > house via poles (though I want a basement, somehow, too!) and then
          > putting in our bales.
          > I can't decide on the logistics of that though. Any poles exposed to
          > the weather should have some sort of protection. Obviously you in the
          living space as I can only imagine
          > what would be off-gassed... :P
          >
          > Maybe creosote poles on the exterior, with the bale wall butting up
          > against them? What would that doOr would we
          > want to try to inset them into the bale somehow, if they were small
          > enough to do so?
          >
          >
          > I'm also thinking pole because not only would it support the main
          > floor and roof, but also the loft floor. But that leads to another
          > question; can I cut out space for ie,
          > if it's an exterior pole, the floor joist would have to come inside
          > through the bale wall somehow. Or would we want to do a lower floor
          > bale wall and an upper floor bale wall separately to be able to lift
          > the bales off the floor a bit in case of flooding in the upstairs
          > bathroom or something? Or would it be easier to just frame in the
          > knee walls the "old fashioned" way with stick framing?
          >
          > Or, should we just keep everthing *inside* and give up some more floor
          > space?
          >
          > If none of this makes any sense, let me know and I'll try to upload a
          > sketch of my half-baked idea. ;)
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions.
          >
          >
          > --Erin
          >




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