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Re: Annualised heat storage

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  • David Elfstrom
    ... Michael if you *had* kept reading you would have seen that the solution is a heat exchanger! The air through the underground ducts doesn t mix with the
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 1, 2007
      > I did read quickly that the secret of a germ free earth tube system
      > could be opbtained for $500.00 (and stopped reading). My understanding
      > is that earth tube systems are not employed simply for this reason and
      > that the risk of an airborne nasty is just too great to even think
      > about them.

      Michael if you *had* kept reading you would have seen that the solution
      is a heat exchanger!

      The air through the underground ducts doesn't mix with the inside air,
      just like how a closed-loop solar hot water-glycol system never mixes
      with domestic hot water. Since glycol water is kept from entering
      household water in solar domestic water heating systems I see no reason
      why an air-based system would be any different.

      The article points out the problem of depleting the underground heat in
      the winter. If one wanted more control over heat in the winter, the
      ground could be charged with AGS in the summer and drawn down with the
      passivehaus heat exchanger in the winter, possibly supplemented with
      solar hot air panels like those shown here:
      http://www.solarmaxheatinginc.com/how.php - a worthy idea. Of course
      we're now getting further away from a passive system each time we add a
      fan-driven component.

      David Elfstrom
    • Michael K. lough
      ... lets see now …we are now talking about? AGS? PASSIVE SOLAR HEATING ? I am aware of glycol (or similar) based heating storage systems and do recall some
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 2, 2007
        > > I did read quickly that the secret of a germ free earth tube system
        > > could be opbtained for $500.00 (and stopped reading). My u> nderstanding
        > > is that earth tube systems are not employed simply for this reason a> nd
        > > that the risk of an airborne nasty is just too great to even think
        > > about them.
        >
        >Michael if you *had* kept reading you would have seen that the s> olution
        >is a heat exchanger!
        >
        >The air through the underground ducts doesn't mix with the inside air,
        >just like how a closed-loop solar hot water-glycol system never mixes
        >with domestic hot water. Since glycol water is kept from entering
        >household water in solar domestic water heating systems I see no r> eason
        >why an air-based system would be any different.
        >

        lets see now �we are now talking about? AGS? PASSIVE SOLAR HEATING ?

        I am aware of glycol (or similar) based heating storage systems and do
        recall some time ago introducing the idea to this list gleaned from FHB
        issue ? regarding a house in Maine or Mass. where a sand bed is employed
        under a radiant slab to condition the RS when poss from large external
        passive collectors that run through a buried chase to the sand. This was
        not AGS. AGS as touted by certain individuals relies exclusively on
        collecting enough heat below a building to heat it to human comfort level
        in February. I maintain this is not possible in Ontario despite super
        insulation building orientation or without supplemental heat (including
        slam dancing events every Saturday night) being required. I have always
        understood the difference between the temperature difference under a
        building and outside the buildings footprint and the possibility of
        employing this difference to seasonal advantage. But this also is not AGS. I
        understand heat pumps and the notion of using bore holes to obtain heat and
        cooling from. Neither is this AGS.




        >
        >The article points out the problem of depleting the underground heat i n
        >the winter.

        I havn't as you know read the article fully but I will take it on face value
        that you understand that "depletion of the underground heat" is probably
        another way of saying that AGS doesnt work�?



        If one wanted more control over heat in the winter, the
        >ground could be charged with AGS in the summer and drawn down with the>
        >passivehaus heat exchanger in the winter, possibly supplemented with
        >solar hot air panels like those shown here:

        AGS is in my opinion not worth thinking about however a daily system that
        recognises that heat can be produced and used in the winter IS. And saying
        "possibly supplemented" is akin to the slime sell statement of savings "up
        to " 50 percent �





        >http://www.solarmaxheatinginc.com/how.php - a worthy idea.

        This is likely to work well ( if they resolve the storage issue)�but its not
        AGS.




        ML
      • William Morgan
        ... This looks very similar to the solar heater on the cover of Mother Earth News a few months ago. This is just placed on the roof instead of the end of a
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 2, 2007
          >http://www.solarmaxheatinginc.com/how.php - a worthy idea.

          >This is likely to work well ( if they resolve the storage issue)…but
          >its not
          >AGS.

          This looks very similar to the solar heater on the cover of Mother Earth News a few months ago. This is just placed on the roof instead of the end of a building and they have a blower on it to move the air.
          Blaine


          "Michael K. lough" <mkl18@...> wrote:
          > > I did read quickly that the secret of a germ free earth tube system
          > > could be opbtained for $500.00 (and stopped reading). My u> nderstanding
          > > is that earth tube systems are not employed simply for this reason a> nd
          > > that the risk of an airborne nasty is just too great to even think
          > > about them.
          >
          >Michael if you *had* kept reading you would have seen that the s> olution
          >is a heat exchanger!
          >
          >The air through the underground ducts doesn't mix with the inside air,
          >just like how a closed-loop solar hot water-glycol system never mixes
          >with domestic hot water. Since glycol water is kept from entering
          >household water in solar domestic water heating systems I see no r> eason
          >why an air-based system would be any different.
          >

          lets see now …we are now talking about? AGS? PASSIVE SOLAR HEATING ?

          I am aware of glycol (or similar) based heating storage systems and do
          recall some time ago introducing the idea to this list gleaned from FHB
          issue ? regarding a house in Maine or Mass. where a sand bed is employed
          under a radiant slab to condition the RS when poss from large external
          passive collectors that run through a buried chase to the sand. This was
          not AGS. AGS as touted by certain individuals relies exclusively on
          collecting enough heat below a building to heat it to human comfort level
          in February. I maintain this is not possible in Ontario despite super
          insulation building orientation or without supplemental heat (including
          slam dancing events every Saturday night) being required. I have always
          understood the difference between the temperature difference under a
          building and outside the buildings footprint and the possibility of
          employing this difference to seasonal advantage. But this also is not AGS. I
          understand heat pumps and the notion of using bore holes to obtain heat and
          cooling from. Neither is this AGS.




          >
          >The article points out the problem of depleting the underground heat i n
          >the winter.

          I havn't as you know read the article fully but I will take it on face value
          that you understand that "depletion of the underground heat" is probably
          another way of saying that AGS doesnt work…?



          If one wanted more control over heat in the winter, the
          >ground could be charged with AGS in the summer and drawn down with the>
          >passivehaus heat exchanger in the winter, possibly supplemented with
          >solar hot air panels like those shown here:

          AGS is in my opinion not worth thinking about however a daily system that
          recognises that heat can be produced and used in the winter IS. And saying
          "possibly supplemented" is akin to the slime sell statement of savings "up
          to " 50 percent …





          >http://www.solarmaxheatinginc.com/how.php - a worthy idea.

          This is likely to work well ( if they resolve the storage issue)…but its not
          AGS.




          ML





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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • FaerieDogMa@aol.com
          In a message dated 1/31/2007 7:29:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, mkl18@pobox.com writes: I had a look at the above links and I think I m correct in saying
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 2, 2007
            In a message dated 1/31/2007 7:29:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,
            mkl18@... writes:

            I had a look at the above links and I think I'm correct in saying that
            the systems described (I wasnt able to get page one of the Illinois
            Passivhaus document) do not seek to "capture" heat ina large mass
            during the Summer for use in the Winter months as in AGS.


            ~~~> You are correct. I digressed from the main topic at hand when the other
            links were brought to my attention. I should've changed the subject line.
            Mea culpa.

            Lorri G. the DogMom


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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