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Re: [Strawbale] Strawbale regrets?...

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  • RT
    ... Greg; Nice to hear from you again after what seems like a long absence. I guess I don t need to ask what you ve been doing with yourself. (ie filling the
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 1, 2006
      --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, "Raquel & Greg" <eatrice@...> wrote:
      >

      >We love our house! (Though it is a bit small now that we have 5
      >kids!)
      >
      > Greg Massa in Hamilton City, CA
      > www.MassaOrganics.com


      Greg;
      Nice to hear from you again after what seems like a long absence. I
      guess I don't need to ask what you've been doing with yourself. (ie
      filling the house up with kids).

      But I would like to ask you where you would make the first changes to
      create more space. My guess is "bathroom facilities" if any of those
      5 kids are girls.
    • thephnx2003
      Andrew; Before replying, took the trouble of visiting your site and getting to know you through your work. Much of quality - what is the wall infil you use
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 3, 2006
        Andrew;
        Before replying, took the trouble of visiting your site and getting to
        know you through your work. Much of quality - what is the wall infil
        you use that looks like small, 4 inch or less, clapboard, Slater
        Residence, Queensland?
        You obviously are deserving of respect - an `old' timer tends to be
        suspicious of greenies - would appreciate your clarification -
        personal please - on why "RoundUp" is as bad as you imply.
        Is proper use and application a factor?
        Here on the beautiful Outer Banks of North Carolina (have been to
        Australia BTW - `America's Cup, 1987, Perth, Fremantle) with many
        beautiful homes and much great landscaping, "RoundUp" is very popular.
        Most the research I've done suggests it to be good for what its
        supposed to do.
        Regards, HBH


        --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Webb <design@...> wrote:
        >
        > This just reminds me of my father-in-law's attempts to convince my wife
        > and I to use round-up. He dramatically asked the local hardware guy,
        > "round-up is safe to use, isn't it?" and the hardware guy said,
        > "absolutely; it's great stuff." "It doesn't hurt the environment, does
        > it?" "No, everyone uses it."
        >
        > Not to invalidate the Home Depot guy's friend's experience, but only you
        > can decide who's 'expert' opinion to listen to.
        >
        > - AW
        >
        >
        > Mark Frazier wrote:
        > > ...He said if he had it
        > > to do over again,
        > > he'd just frame up double walls and insulate it normally".
        >
      • jwvastine
        ... reality ... We love ... I couldn t agree more with this sentiment which we are proving by building our second straw bale home. The stick home is just NOT
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 4, 2006
          --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, "Raquel & Greg" <eatrice@...> wrote:
          >
          > Now that I'm a bit farther removed from the day-to-day, overwhelming
          reality
          > of building my own house, I wouldn't build anything but strawbale.
          We love
          > our house! (Though it is a bit small now that we have 5 kids!)
          >
          > Greg Massa in Hamilton City, CA
          > www.MassaOrganics.com
          >

          I couldn't agree more with this sentiment which we are proving by
          building our second straw bale home. The stick home is just NOT the same.
          Has anyone ever been involved in a building project when they haven't
          at some point said "Man, I will never do this again!"?

          Judy
          www/strawbaleredux.blogspot.com
        • Chris Green
          ... I ve said that to myself several time already on the house I ve been working on now...if I supervise the excavation of the the next one, I promise I will
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 4, 2006
            jwvastine wrote:
            >
            > Has anyone ever been involved in a building project when they haven't
            > at some point said "Man, I will never do this again!"?
            >
            I've said that to myself several time already on the house I've been
            working on now...if I supervise the excavation of the the next one, I
            promise I will leave more room for the drain around the footings so I/
            we don't have to jackhammer and shovel so much rock.....cubs honour,
            boss, I promise...

            Cheers,

            Chris Green.
          • Andrew Webb
            Hi HBH, The cladding is 77x19mm mixed local hardwood; a variety of gum species. Off topic, sorry folks, but...I have heard reports of roundup use killing off
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 4, 2006
              Hi HBH,

              The cladding is 77x19mm 'mixed' local hardwood; a variety of gum species.

              Off topic, sorry folks, but...I have heard reports of roundup use
              killing off frog populations; formerly noisy wetlands going silent. I
              have a plethora of frogs around my place and wouldn't want to take the
              risk. Also, we drink the ground water and the bore (aka. well) is at
              the bottom of the hill. It just doesn't seem sensible to me to poison a
              few weeds poking through the driveway while risking poisoning the whole
              family and the native fauna we live amongst; however small the risk may
              be (and from what I have read and heard, it's not a small risk with
              roundup). I know there is lots of information stating that roundup is
              harmless. But, not that long ago, DDT, asbestos, cane toads,
              cigarettes, leaded petrol, CFCs, etc,etc, were also considered great
              innovations. To me, it's not merely about being a 'greenie', it's about
              finding solutions proportional to the problem and recognising that a bit
              of convenience might cause a lot of destruction. Planting and
              pesticides are far from my area of expertise but I'd prefer to err on
              the side of caution. I think it's fairly self-evident that you cannot
              trust Monsanto' s word and probably not most of their science (personal
              conjecture, I admit).

              My point about the hardware guy's advice is that, however
              well-intentioned it may be, I don't know him from a bar of soap to know
              what he's basing his recommendation on; what priorities, politics,
              philosophy, knowledge, etc. lead him to his conclusion. So, I would
              'take it on advisement' but not really put much stake in it without more
              information to flesh it out. If, as Mark indicated, he knows the guy or
              has reason to value his advice, then that's different. Same goes for
              email lists I guess.

              -AW


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Chris Green
              ... It s been a long time since I was dealing with Round-up and similar products, but if memory serves me well, it is actually a plant growth hormone. The way
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 4, 2006
                Andrew Webb wrote:
                >
                > Off topic, sorry folks, but...I have heard reports of roundup use
                > killing off frog populations; formerly noisy wetlands going silent. I
                > have a plethora of frogs around my place and wouldn't want to take the
                > risk.
                >
                It's been a long time since I was dealing with Round-up and similar
                products, but if memory serves me well, it is actually a plant growth
                hormone. The way it's supposed to work is that it forces the plants to
                grow so so quickly their cells split and the plant dies. The plant
                crushes itself to death internally.
                The active ingredient also is "supposed to have" a fairly short life
                span, and breaks down within days if exposed to UV light, a little
                longer if soil-based organisms and processes are exposed to it.

                One of the problems with these herbicides is that they are packaged with
                a surfactant compound, something we can consider as 'liquid soap.':
                Surfactant is short for 'surface acting agent.' The soap is supposed to
                allow the active ingredient to enter the plant parts more readily.
                Faster and more of it goes in.

                My issue with this is that while the active ingredient has been tested
                by various labs and deemed 'safe,' it appears that no-one has bothered
                to test the other ingredients in the mix. At least not that I or my
                nephew, a forester who strongly opposes the use of herbicides in the
                forest, could ever find out about.

                The use of herbicides like Round-up and the others of this type in the
                forest has been linked to failures in trout hatching out in streams. It
                might be that the surfactant(s) are to blame for this, and it is
                reasonable to assume it could also be responsible for the drop in frog
                hatches.

                This is all conjecture on my part, of course, but it is a possibility to
                keep in mind.

                Chris Green.
              • Raquel & Greg
                Hi Rob. Yes it has been a long time since I posted, but I have been a silent member from the beginning. For those of you who don t remember me, we built our
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 6, 2006
                  Hi Rob. Yes it has been a long time since I posted, but I have been a
                  silent member from the beginning. For those of you who don't remember me,
                  we built our 2 story strawbale in 2001-2. John Swearingen designed it for
                  us, and I think it is still on his website (you can get there through our
                  website too). We subbed out some of it, and did a lot ourselves. The straw
                  came from our own organic rice fields, and was grown on-site. The house
                  performs very well, staying cool in the summer which was our primary design
                  consideration. Everyone who sees the house has been impressed by it.

                  When we built, we only had two kids, so a 1500 sq ft, 3 bedroom house was
                  more than adequate. We only had 1 bathroom (left the other unfinished due
                  to lack of time/money). Now we have 5 kids (8, 6, 3, 11 mo, and 8 mo), and
                  no space! We finished the 2nd bath this year, and closed in a porch, so
                  we're up to 1800 ft. We don't have a garage or any adequate outside
                  storage, which is probably our biggest need. Soon we'll need more bed space
                  as well. The two babies are currently in our bedroom, but that won't last
                  forever. The kids rooms are fairly small, so two per room is max. We may
                  end up swapping our bedroom with the three boys, so they have more space. I
                  wish we had designed in an addition, so that it would be easier to add a
                  bedroom. I'm not sure where we could realistically go right now. Got any
                  ideas John?

                  I'll try to post some other "lessons learned" in another email.

                  Greg
                  www.MassaOrganics.com

                  --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, "Raquel & Greg" <eatrice@...> wrote:
                  >

                  >We love our house! (Though it is a bit small now that we have 5
                  >kids!)
                  >
                  > Greg Massa in Hamilton City, CA
                  > www.MassaOrganics.com

                  Greg;
                  Nice to hear from you again after what seems like a long absence. I
                  guess I don't need to ask what you've been doing with yourself. (ie
                  filling the house up with kids).

                  But I would like to ask you where you would make the first changes to
                  create more space. My guess is "bathroom facilities" if any of those
                  5 kids are girls.
                • patty&brien
                  Chris is right about the inerts and surfactants. Here is a quote from this website, http://www.panna.org/resources/panups/panup_20050805.dv.html: The evidence
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 6, 2006
                    Chris is right about the inerts and surfactants. Here is a quote from this
                    website, http://www.panna.org/resources/panups/panup_20050805.dv.html:

                    The evidence presented in the recent study is supported by earlier
                    laboratory studies connecting glyphosate with reproductive harm, including
                    damaged DNA in mice and abnormal chromosomes in human blood. Evidence from
                    epidemiological studies has also linked exposure to the herbicide with
                    increased risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and laboratory studies have now
                    begun to hone in on the mechanism by which the chemical acts on cell
                    division to cause cancer. A Canadian study has linked glyphosate exposure in
                    the three months before conception with increased risk for miscarriage and a
                    2002 study in Minnesota connected glyphosate exposure in farm families with
                    increased incidence of attention deficit disorder.

                    More info or want alternatives? See
                    http://www.panna.org/resources/documents/disrupting.pdf.

                    Brien


                    on 9/4/06 10:25 PM, Chris Green at pojeros@... wrote:

                    Andrew Webb wrote:
                    >
                    > Off topic, sorry folks, but...I have heard reports of roundup use
                    > killing off frog populations; formerly noisy wetlands going silent. I
                    > have a plethora of frogs around my place and wouldn't want to take the
                    > risk.
                    >
                    It's been a long time since I was dealing with Round-up and similar
                    products, but if memory serves me well, it is actually a plant growth
                    hormone. The way it's supposed to work is that it forces the plants to
                    grow so so quickly their cells split and the plant dies. The plant
                    crushes itself to death internally.
                    The active ingredient also is "supposed to have" a fairly short life
                    span, and breaks down within days if exposed to UV light, a little
                    longer if soil-based organisms and processes are exposed to it.

                    One of the problems with these herbicides is that they are packaged with
                    a surfactant compound, something we can consider as 'liquid soap.':
                    Surfactant is short for 'surface acting agent.' The soap is supposed to
                    allow the active ingredient to enter the plant parts more readily.
                    Faster and more of it goes in.

                    My issue with this is that while the active ingredient has been tested
                    by various labs and deemed 'safe,' it appears that no-one has bothered
                    to test the other ingredients in the mix. At least not that I or my
                    nephew, a forester who strongly opposes the use of herbicides in the
                    forest, could ever find out about.

                    The use of herbicides like Round-up and the others of this type in the
                    forest has been linked to failures in trout hatching out in streams. It
                    might be that the surfactant(s) are to blame for this, and it is
                    reasonable to assume it could also be responsible for the drop in frog
                    hatches.

                    This is all conjecture on my part, of course, but it is a possibility to
                    keep in mind.

                    Chris Green.





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chris Green
                    ... However, I mis-remembered how glyphosate is supposed to work: it is not a super-growth hormone for plant, as I stated, but a compound which inhibits a
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 6, 2006
                      patty&brien wrote:
                      >
                      > Chris is right about the inerts and surfactants. Here is a quote from this
                      > website, http://www.panna org/resources/ panups/panup_ 20050805.
                      > dv.html: <http://www.panna.org/resources/panups/panup_20050805.dv.html:>
                      >
                      However, I mis-remembered how glyphosate is supposed to work: it is not
                      a super-growth hormone for plant, as I stated, but a compound which
                      inhibits a certain enzyme reaction in the plants. Wiki article about
                      this compound:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

                      The link provided by brien comes up as 'page not found.'

                      Chris Green.
                    • thephnx2003
                      Just back from a VERY worthwhile visit to your site. Now that s a `green I can envy!-) Can we buy some rice from you? I am serious. HBH ... remember me,
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 7, 2006
                        Just back from a VERY worthwhile visit to your site. Now that's a
                        `green' I can envy!-)
                        Can we buy some rice from you? I am serious. HBH

                        --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, "Raquel & Greg" <eatrice@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Rob. Yes it has been a long time since I posted, but I have been a
                        > silent member from the beginning. For those of you who don't
                        remember me,
                        > we built our 2 story strawbale in 2001-2. John Swearingen designed
                        it for
                        > us, and I think it is still on his website (you can get there
                        through our
                        > website too). We subbed out some of it, and did a lot ourselves.
                        The straw
                        > came from our own organic rice fields, and was grown on-site. The
                        house
                        > performs very well, staying cool in the summer which was our primary
                        design
                        > consideration. Everyone who sees the house has been impressed by it.
                        >
                        > When we built, we only had two kids, so a 1500 sq ft, 3 bedroom
                        house was
                        > more than adequate. We only had 1 bathroom (left the other
                        unfinished due
                        > to lack of time/money). Now we have 5 kids (8, 6, 3, 11 mo, and 8
                        mo), and
                        > no space! We finished the 2nd bath this year, and closed in a
                        porch, so
                        > we're up to 1800 ft. We don't have a garage or any adequate outside
                        > storage, which is probably our biggest need. Soon we'll need more
                        bed space
                        > as well. The two babies are currently in our bedroom, but that
                        won't last
                        > forever. The kids rooms are fairly small, so two per room is max.
                        We may
                        > end up swapping our bedroom with the three boys, so they have more
                        space. I
                        > wish we had designed in an addition, so that it would be easier to
                        add a
                        > bedroom. I'm not sure where we could realistically go right now.
                        Got any
                        > ideas John?
                        >
                        > I'll try to post some other "lessons learned" in another email.
                        >
                        > Greg
                        > www.MassaOrganics.com
                        >
                        > --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, "Raquel & Greg" <eatrice@> wrote:
                        > >
                        >
                        > >We love our house! (Though it is a bit small now that we have 5
                        > >kids!)
                        > >
                        > > Greg Massa in Hamilton City, CA
                        > > www.MassaOrganics.com
                        >
                        > Greg;
                        > Nice to hear from you again after what seems like a long absence. I
                        > guess I don't need to ask what you've been doing with yourself. (ie
                        > filling the house up with kids).
                        >
                        > But I would like to ask you where you would make the first changes to
                        > create more space. My guess is "bathroom facilities" if any of those
                        > 5 kids are girls.
                        >
                      • patty&brien
                        Sorry about that, but I can t figure out why. At the PANNA home page, just type round-up into the search box. It ll be the 3rd article found. Brien on 9/6/06
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 7, 2006
                          Sorry about that, but I can't figure out why. At the PANNA home page, just
                          type round-up into the search box. It'll be the 3rd article found.

                          Brien

                          on 9/6/06 6:07 PM, Chris Green at pojeros@... wrote:

                          patty&brien wrote:
                          >
                          > Chris is right about the inerts and surfactants. Here is a quote from this
                          > website, http://www.panna org/resources/ panups/panup_ 20050805.
                          > dv.html: <http://www.panna.org/resources/panups/panup_20050805.dv.html:>
                          >
                          However, I mis-remembered how glyphosate is supposed to work: it is not
                          a super-growth hormone for plant, as I stated, but a compound which
                          inhibits a certain enzyme reaction in the plants. Wiki article about
                          this compound:
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

                          The link provided by brien comes up as 'page not found.'




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Raquel & Greg
                          Glad you liked the website. Of course you can buy rice from us! I don t have online ordering yet, but contact me off list and I d be happy to ship you some.
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 8, 2006
                            Glad you liked the website. Of course you can buy rice from us! I don't
                            have online ordering yet, but contact me off list and I'd be happy to ship
                            you some.

                            Greg


                            Posted by: "thephnx2003" ThePHNX@... thephnx2003
                            Thu Sep 7, 2006 10:14 am (PST)
                            Just back from a VERY worthwhile visit to your site. Now that's a
                            `green' I can envy!-)
                            Can we buy some rice from you? I am serious. HBH
                          • Speireag Alden
                            ... Reminds me of my mechanic s reaction when I bought a 2000 Insight (the first hybrid available generally in the US, and still the most fuel-efficient). He
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 11, 2006
                              Sgrìobh Mark Frazier:

                              >I mentioned to the door and window guy that we were building with
                              >SB, and his comment was:
                              >
                              >"I have a friend that's finishing an SB house. He said if he had it
                              >to do over again, he'd just frame up double walls and insulate it
                              >normally".

                              Reminds me of my mechanic's reaction when I bought a 2000 Insight
                              (the first hybrid available generally in the US, and still the most
                              fuel-efficient). He smiled condescendingly and said, "Yeah, a guy I
                              know bought one of those, and said it wasn't what it cracked up to
                              be."

                              Years later, now, and I love my Insight.

                              People always feel free to comment on things they don't know much about.

                              -Speireag.

                              --
                              Summer gasshukku. Bliss!
                              My friends, Mark and Susan, have
                              A washing machine.

                              -Speireag.
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