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Re: [SB-r-us] Re: CA Bldg Code

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  • SANCO Business Group, LLC
    Try going to http://www.bsc.ca.gov/title_24/t24_2001tried.html#part2 Should be easy in PDF ... SANCO Business Group Paul Salas, Gen Mgr PO Box 45741 Rio
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 1, 2006
      Try going to http://www.bsc.ca.gov/title_24/t24_2001tried.html#part2

      Should be easy in PDF



      -----Original Message-----
      >From: patty&brien <alvannan@...>
      >Sent: Jun 30, 2006 1:27 PM
      >To: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [SB-r-us] Re: CA Bldg Code
      >
      >Thanks David, but it is too much surfing for my end-of-the-line dial-up
      >service. Looks like a great site though.
      >bbb
      >
      >on 6/29/06 11:22 PM, Nancy or David Gray at ndgray@... wrote:
      >
      >I would try Wikipedia. I forget the name of the person, but someone is
      >loading all kinds of good material about strawbale building there. They
      >might even make a post about it. Best wishes, David Gray
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >


      SANCO Business Group
      Paul Salas, Gen Mgr
      PO Box 45741
      Rio Rancho, NM 87174
      (505) 238-0426
      paul@...
      visit us http://www.sanco-bg.com
    • Duncan Lithgow
      ... That s probably me you re thinking of... The book or wikibook is at http://en.wikibooks.org/Straw_Bale_Construction ...and there s a section with links
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 3, 2006
        On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 08:46 -0600, SANCO Business Group, LLC wrote:

        > >I would try Wikipedia. I forget the name of the person, but someone
        > is
        > >loading all kinds of good material about strawbale building there.
        > They
        > >might even make a post about it.
        That's probably me you're thinking of...

        The 'book' or 'wikibook' is at
        http://en.wikibooks.org/Straw_Bale_Construction

        ...and there's a section with links to building codes, click the edit
        button on the page if there's one missing.

        Anyone feel like adopting a chapter...?

        Duncan

        --
        Linux user: 372812 | GPG key ID: 21A8C63A | http://lithgow-schmidt.dk


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Duncan Lithgow
        ... sorry, wrong link before. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction Duncan -- Linux user: 372812 | GPG key ID: 21A8C63A |
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 3, 2006
          On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 08:46 -0600, SANCO Business Group, LLC wrote:
          > >I would try Wikipedia. I forget the name of the person, but someone
          > is
          > >loading all kinds of good material about strawbale building there.
          > They
          > >might even make a post about it. Best wishes, David Gray
          sorry, wrong link before.

          http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Straw_Bale_Construction

          Duncan
          --
          Linux user: 372812 | GPG key ID: 21A8C63A | http://lithgow-schmidt.dk


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • patty&brien
          Hey Chris, Is this the section you are referring to, or is it more specific yet? 104.2.8 [ForHCD1&HCD2] Alternate for materials, design, tests and methods of
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 17, 2006
            Hey Chris,

            Is this the section you are referring to, or is it more specific yet?

            104.2.8 [ForHCD1&HCD2] Alternate for materials, design,
            tests and methods of construction. The provisions of this code
            are not intended to prevent the use of any material, alternate de-
            sign or method of construction not specifically prescribed by this
            code, provided any alternate has been approved and its use autho-
            rized by the building official.
            The building official may approve any such alternate, provided
            the building official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory
            and complies with the provisions of this code and that the material,
            method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the
            equivalent of that prescribed in this code in suitability, strength,
            effectiveness, fire resistance, durability, safety and sanitation.
            The building official shall require that sufficient evidence or
            proof be submitted to substantiate any claims that may be made
            regarding its use. The details of any action granting approval of an
            alternate shall be recorded and entered in the files of the code en-
            forcement agency.

            I've searched the "definitions" chapter and cannot find what HCD 1, HCD 2,
            SFM, etc. stand for. Can someone please tell me?
            Thanks,
            Brien


            on 6/28/06 6:50 PM, Pennbo at pennbo@... wrote:

            Sorry guys, I've been looking but I haven't found my copy of the CBC,
            Title 24 stuff yet. Between losing my hard drive in October and moving
            IN to this house- everything has gone missing. I KNOW I have a hard copy
            of them somewhere and I know I HAD a digital copy as well....but I can't
            find either one. However if you can get your hands on one and just thumb
            through it you should be able to find the section on nothing being
            intended to keep a private homeowner from exploring cutting-edge ideas.
            I'll keep looking for it but that's the state of affairs right now. Sorry!!

            Chris PB



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • lesliehm
            If I remember my genetics classes, the hCD2 gene is expressed in all T cells and thymocytes. What that has to do with the CBC and Title 24 I will never know
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 18, 2006
              If I remember my genetics classes, the hCD2 gene is expressed in all T
              cells and thymocytes. What that has to do with the CBC and Title 24 I
              will never know but make sure you keep your T-Cell count up.

              Sorry I cannot be of more assistance but hopefully this brought a
              smile to your face.

              Leslie
              http://pasostrawbale.blogspot.com

              --- In SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com, patty&brien <alvannan@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Chris,
              >
              > Is this the section you are referring to, or is it more specific yet?
              >
              > 104.2.8 [ForHCD1&HCD2] Alternate for materials, design,
              > tests and methods of construction. The provisions of this code
              > are not intended to prevent the use of any material, alternate de-
              > sign or method of construction not specifically prescribed by this
              > code, provided any alternate has been approved and its use autho-
              > rized by the building official.
              > The building official may approve any such alternate, provided
              > the building official finds that the proposed design is satisfactory
              > and complies with the provisions of this code and that the material,
              > method or work offered is, for the purpose intended, at least the
              > equivalent of that prescribed in this code in suitability, strength,
              > effectiveness, fire resistance, durability, safety and sanitation.
              > The building official shall require that sufficient evidence or
              > proof be submitted to substantiate any claims that may be made
              > regarding its use. The details of any action granting approval of an
              > alternate shall be recorded and entered in the files of the code en-
              > forcement agency.
              >
              > I've searched the "definitions" chapter and cannot find what HCD 1,
              HCD 2,
              > SFM, etc. stand for. Can someone please tell me?
              > Thanks,
              > Brien
              >
              >
              > on 6/28/06 6:50 PM, Pennbo at pennbo@... wrote:
              >
              > Sorry guys, I've been looking but I haven't found my copy of the CBC,
              > Title 24 stuff yet. Between losing my hard drive in October and moving
              > IN to this house- everything has gone missing. I KNOW I have a hard copy
              > of them somewhere and I know I HAD a digital copy as well....but I can't
              > find either one. However if you can get your hands on one and just thumb
              > through it you should be able to find the section on nothing being
              > intended to keep a private homeowner from exploring cutting-edge ideas.
              > I'll keep looking for it but that's the state of affairs right now.
              Sorry!!
              >
              > Chris PB
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • patty&brien
              At first I thought I sent the message to the wrong group. Good one! bb on 8/18/06 4:04 PM, lesliehm at lesliehm@yahoo.com wrote: If I remember my genetics
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 18, 2006
                At first I thought I sent the message to the wrong group. Good one!
                bb


                on 8/18/06 4:04 PM, lesliehm at lesliehm@... wrote:

                If I remember my genetics classes, the hCD2 gene is expressed in all T
                cells and thymocytes. What that has to do with the CBC and Title 24 I
                will never know but make sure you keep your T-Cell count up.

                Sorry I cannot be of more assistance but hopefully this brought a
                smile to your face.

                Leslie
                http://pasostrawbale.blogspot.com





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mark Frazier
                We were just lucky enough last night to catch an episode of California s Green on the the local public station. Last nights episode was on SB building, and
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 27, 2006
                  We were just lucky enough last night to catch an episode of
                  "California's Green" on the
                  the local public station. Last nights episode was on SB building, and
                  featured non other
                  than SB-r-us list celebrity Bob Bolles. I recognized the pond in
                  front of Laura's house,
                  saying "Hey, I've been to that website!".

                  (http://www.strawbalediary.com)

                  Anyway Bob, a few questions if you don't mind:

                  1). You mentioned that you'd lost several SB buildings to a
                  firestorm. Can you elaborate on the
                  conditions that caused the failures you were referring to? Were they
                  unplastered? Or did a spark
                  get into the attic space?

                  2). I noticed that in Laura's house, steel studs were being used for
                  interior walls. I've used steel on the
                  last couple of basement finishes I did in Denver and found them
                  preferable to working with wood just
                  because it was easy to work alone. But they are currently more
                  expensive than wood 2x. What were
                  your reasons for choosing them? Are they considered more green (they
                  are recycled) than wood?
                  Of course, there's that whole embodied energy thing <grin>

                  3) How long ago was that filmed? Looks like her house has been
                  finished for awhile.
                • Bob Bolles
                  On Mon, 11/27, Mark Frasier wrote: We were just lucky enough last night to catch an episode of California s Green on the local public station. Last nights
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 28, 2006
                    On Mon, 11/27, Mark Frasier wrote:
                    We were just lucky enough last night to catch an episode of "California's Green" on the local public station. Last nights episode was on SB building, and featured non other than SB-r-us list celebrity Bob Bolles. I recognized the pond in front of Laura's house, saying "Hey, I've been to that website!".

                    (http://www.strawbalediary.com)

                    <snip>

                    Hi Mark, thanks for the kind words.
                    You asked; "How long ago was that filmed? Looks like her house has been
                    finished for awhile."

                    I had to think about that for a while; there have been a few since then <smiling> - I think that it was on 2000 - 2001 - somewhere in that timeframe. We were contacted by the California Green folks and asked if we had a project that could be used for half of the one hour broadcast. Laura was finishing up the plaster work and it seemed to be near perfect timing. The other half was on one of Mike Evans' projects out at the Tree of Life Nursery, about 10 miles East of San Juan Capistrano on the Ortega Highway. Just a plug for Mike here; the Tree of Life Nursery (along with the SB-R-Us Waterlady) specializes in native plant life, and not only do they have about 6 (at my last count) Straw Bale buildings, but Mike built his own home up in the mountainous Julian area. Which is a great lead into your next question:

                    "You mentioned that you'd lost several SB buildings to a firestorm. Can you elaborate on the conditions that caused the failures you were referring to? Were they unplastered? Or did a spark get into the attic space?"

                    We lost 3 Straw Bale houses out of the nearly 3,000 that were burned - along with about 300,000 acres of vegetation - Mike's was one of those houses, and the other two were my projects.
                    Mike said that he had thought that he had build the most fire-resistant house possible; in retrospect, he said that he had a couple of windows that were "too large", and simply exploded under the heat. He had a couple of skylights that melted and provided a "great chimney" to assist the path of the fire. It seems to me that the 3rd item that he mentioned was draperies that ignited on the interior through the window glass. Painful lessons.
                    The other two simply were vaporized in the intense heat. The Crestridge Preserve Visitors Kiosk (which we rebuilt last year) was just built far too close to the tinder-dry vegetation around it, and the wood roof framing was undoubtedly the first thing to go. As a note, it was clay-plastered with a living-roof.
                    The third building was in a very remote portion of Ramona, not far from where the fire started. It was almost completed, about a week from the plastering stage, but frankly, I doubt that plaster would have changed the outcome any. It was in the center of a cleared area with at least 100 feet of bare ground around it, but the site is on the edge of a very large canyon that the fire traveled through; the underbrush was thick, as there hadn't been a fire through there in 40 years. I suspect that the fire was traveling at least 50 MPH. Our "best guess" is that the temps were around 2,500 degrees F.

                    And your 3rd question:
                    "I noticed that in Laura's house, steel studs were being used for interior walls. I've used steel on the last couple of basement finishes I did in Denver and found them preferable to working with wood just because it was easy to work alone. But they are currently more expensive than wood 2x. What were your reasons for choosing them? Are they considered more green (they are recycled) than wood? Of course, there's that whole embodied energy thing <grin>

                    It isn't easy being green, is it? <smiling>. It's tough to compare steel and wood because they are and aren't green for entirely different reasons. With wood, we consider whether it is sustainably harvested, and while it is renewable, it is very slowly renewable; perhaps taking 60 to 80 years to re-grow a similar tree in that microclimate. When clear-cut, that microclimate is destroyed so it would probably take even longer to produce that same tree.
                    With steel, we consider the embodied energy and the consumption of a non-renewable resource. (This is not a subject that I know a whole lot about, so I am just learning as I go) From what I have studied, "all" steel (in the USA?) has a recycle content of at least 25%, and I am reading that "most" is now around 80%. Some types of steel, "cold rolled", has a 100% recycle content (my old Chevy?) and is now being produced in an Electric Arc Furnace, that uses a "small fraction" of the energy that it used to produce steel. From what I understand, steel studs fall into this category. So from that perspective, steel studs seem to be reasonably green and if their use decreases the deforestation, I'd say that was a good thing.
                    Back in 2001, or so, the cost of lumber in our area was skyrocketing, and I believe that the steel studs were less expensive, or at least competitive with lumber. Today, I can buy a 2X4X8 stud for $2.00 - to $2.20, and the steel counterpart is close to $6.00.
                    An interesting part of the steel discussion is the use of Webbed Steel Trusses, which are made of 2-3" angle iron and are a very reasonable alternative for wood Post and Beam framing. The last job that I priced out came out to an average of about $10/Sf, which included the steel frame, purlins and steel roofing. Still trying to put a $ figure on the assembly labor, but I'm estimating it at around $3.00 /Sf. Pretty good for California.

                    Best regards~
                    bb
                    Bob Bolles
                    Sustainable Building Systems, Inc
                    Bob@...
                    www.StrawBaleHouse.com
                    Join our Community bulletin board
                    casbasouth-subscribe@onelist.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mark Frazier
                    Thanks Bob. I ll have to do a cost analysis. I just realized that several large *interior* walls in our design are also 2x6 designed as sheer walls for what
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 28, 2006
                      Thanks Bob.

                      I'll have to do a cost analysis. I just realized that several large
                      *interior* walls in our design are also
                      2x6 designed as sheer walls for what I'm now thinking of as our "Bomb
                      shelter" (maybe a good thing
                      after the 4.1 earthquake we felt last night), so when I factor in the
                      relatively few 2x4 walls, the cost of
                      steel may be pretty minimal WRT to the rest of the budget.


                      > Back in 2001, or so, the cost of lumber in our area was
                      > skyrocketing, and I believe that the steel studs were less
                      > expensive, or at least competitive with lumber. Today, I can buy a
                      > 2X4X8 stud for $2.00 - to $2.20, and the steel counterpart is close
                      > to $6.00.
                      > An interesting part of the steel discussion is the use of Webbed
                      > Steel Trusses, which are made of 2-3" angle iron and are a very
                      > reasonable alternative for wood Post and Beam framing. The last job
                      > that I priced out came out to an average of about $10/Sf, which
                      > included the steel frame, purlins and steel roofing. Still trying
                      > to put a $ figure on the assembly labor, but I'm estimating it at
                      > around $3.00 /Sf. Pretty good for California.




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lisa Swan
                      Laura Silver s project was actually a little later. The drawings were done in 2002. The construction started in early 2003 and finished in 2004. Lisa A. Swan
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 28, 2006
                        Laura Silver's project was actually a little later. The drawings were done
                        in 2002. The construction started in early 2003 and finished in 2004.







                        Lisa A. Swan

                        Design Forward

                        626.796.2566

                        lisa@...

                        www.designforward.net









                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SB-r-us@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Bob Bolles
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:38 PM
                        To: SB- r- us
                        Subject: [SB-r-us] Bob Bolles, painting the state green...



                        On Mon, 11/27, Mark Frasier wrote:
                        We were just lucky enough last night to catch an episode of "California's
                        Green" on the local public station. Last nights episode was on SB building,
                        and featured non other than SB-r-us list celebrity Bob Bolles. I recognized
                        the pond in front of Laura's house, saying "Hey, I've been to that
                        website!".

                        (http://www.strawbal <http://www.strawbalediary.com> ediary.com)

                        <snip>

                        Hi Mark, thanks for the kind words.
                        You asked; "How long ago was that filmed? Looks like her house has been
                        finished for awhile."

                        I had to think about that for a while; there have been a few since then
                        <smiling> - I think that it was on 2000 - 2001 - somewhere in that
                        timeframe. We were contacted by the California Green folks and asked if we
                        had a project that could be used for half of the one hour broadcast. Laura
                        was finishing up the plaster work and it seemed to be near perfect timing.
                        The other half was on one of Mike Evans' projects out at the Tree of Life
                        Nursery, about 10 miles East of San Juan Capistrano on the Ortega Highway.
                        Just a plug for Mike here; the Tree of Life Nursery (along with the SB-R-Us
                        Waterlady) specializes in native plant life, and not only do they have about
                        6 (at my last count) Straw Bale buildings, but Mike built his own home up in
                        the mountainous Julian area. Which is a great lead into your next question:

                        "You mentioned that you'd lost several SB buildings to a firestorm. Can you
                        elaborate on the conditions that caused the failures you were referring to?
                        Were they unplastered? Or did a spark get into the attic space?"

                        We lost 3 Straw Bale houses out of the nearly 3,000 that were burned - along
                        with about 300,000 acres of vegetation - Mike's was one of those houses, and
                        the other two were my projects.
                        Mike said that he had thought that he had build the most fire-resistant
                        house possible; in retrospect, he said that he had a couple of windows that
                        were "too large", and simply exploded under the heat. He had a couple of
                        skylights that melted and provided a "great chimney" to assist the path of
                        the fire. It seems to me that the 3rd item that he mentioned was draperies
                        that ignited on the interior through the window glass. Painful lessons.
                        The other two simply were vaporized in the intense heat. The Crestridge
                        Preserve Visitors Kiosk (which we rebuilt last year) was just built far too
                        close to the tinder-dry vegetation around it, and the wood roof framing was
                        undoubtedly the first thing to go. As a note, it was clay-plastered with a
                        living-roof.
                        The third building was in a very remote portion of Ramona, not far from
                        where the fire started. It was almost completed, about a week from the
                        plastering stage, but frankly, I doubt that plaster would have changed the
                        outcome any. It was in the center of a cleared area with at least 100 feet
                        of bare ground around it, but the site is on the edge of a very large canyon
                        that the fire traveled through; the underbrush was thick, as there hadn't
                        been a fire through there in 40 years. I suspect that the fire was traveling
                        at least 50 MPH. Our "best guess" is that the temps were around 2,500
                        degrees F.

                        And your 3rd question:
                        "I noticed that in Laura's house, steel studs were being used for interior
                        walls. I've used steel on the last couple of basement finishes I did in
                        Denver and found them preferable to working with wood just because it was
                        easy to work alone. But they are currently more expensive than wood 2x. What
                        were your reasons for choosing them? Are they considered more green (they
                        are recycled) than wood? Of course, there's that whole embodied energy thing
                        <grin>

                        It isn't easy being green, is it? <smiling>. It's tough to compare steel and
                        wood because they are and aren't green for entirely different reasons. With
                        wood, we consider whether it is sustainably harvested, and while it is
                        renewable, it is very slowly renewable; perhaps taking 60 to 80 years to
                        re-grow a similar tree in that microclimate. When clear-cut, that
                        microclimate is destroyed so it would probably take even longer to produce
                        that same tree.
                        With steel, we consider the embodied energy and the consumption of a
                        non-renewable resource. (This is not a subject that I know a whole lot
                        about, so I am just learning as I go) From what I have studied, "all" steel
                        (in the USA?) has a recycle content of at least 25%, and I am reading that
                        "most" is now around 80%. Some types of steel, "cold rolled", has a 100%
                        recycle content (my old Chevy?) and is now being produced in an Electric Arc
                        Furnace, that uses a "small fraction" of the energy that it used to produce
                        steel. From what I understand, steel studs fall into this category. So from
                        that perspective, steel studs seem to be reasonably green and if their use
                        decreases the deforestation, I'd say that was a good thing.
                        Back in 2001, or so, the cost of lumber in our area was skyrocketing, and I
                        believe that the steel studs were less expensive, or at least competitive
                        with lumber. Today, I can buy a 2X4X8 stud for $2.00 - to $2.20, and the
                        steel counterpart is close to $6.00.
                        An interesting part of the steel discussion is the use of Webbed Steel
                        Trusses, which are made of 2-3" angle iron and are a very reasonable
                        alternative for wood Post and Beam framing. The last job that I priced out
                        came out to an average of about $10/Sf, which included the steel frame,
                        purlins and steel roofing. Still trying to put a $ figure on the assembly
                        labor, but I'm estimating it at around $3.00 /Sf. Pretty good for
                        California.

                        Best regards~
                        bb
                        Bob Bolles
                        Sustainable Building Systems, Inc
                        Bob@StrawBaleHouse. <mailto:Bob%40StrawBaleHouse.com> com
                        www.StrawBaleHouse.com
                        Join our Community bulletin board
                        casbasouth-subscrib <mailto:casbasouth-subscribe%40onelist.com>
                        e@onelist.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Norbert Senf
                        ... Just got an interesting link, which might be of interest if you understand a bit of French: - a professionally produced online video segment on SB:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 1, 2006
                          >Hello Everybody:

                          Just got an interesting link, which might be of interest if you
                          understand a bit of French:

                          - a professionally produced online video segment on SB:

                          http://www.nexzo.com/2006/index.html

                          then, click on "vert tendre"

                          then, click on "La maison du 21eme siecle"

                          then, click on "Une maison de paille"


                          some other interesting eco vids as well, produced
                          in la Belle Provence (Quebec).


                          Norbert

                          -------------------------------------------
                          Norbert Senf---------- mheat(at)heatkit.com
                          Masonry Stove Builders
                          25 Brouse Rd.
                          RR 5, Shawville------- www.heatkit.com
                          Qu├ębec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
                          ---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092
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