Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SACC-L] MOOCs

Expand Messages
  • Lloyd Miller
    Thanks from me too, Angela. I think the SJS Philosophy Dept. folks made an important statement in defense of quality liberal arts education (beyond the usual
    Message 1 of 11 , May 4, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks from me too, Angela. I think the SJS Philosophy Dept. folks made an important statement in defense of quality liberal arts education (beyond the usual squabbles about which classroom technique works best), and I'm glad they made it public.

      Interestingly, their fear that MOOC's will create two distinct classes of education�one, high-quality, live classroom teaching for the private elite universities, and the other, "virtual" education through digital technology for everyone else�is a repeat of the university vs. community college battles of the late 1960s. My first job in 1968 was at a new community college that hired us "charter" faculty to write "behavioral objectives" (then popular in vocational education) for our courses, and create "audio-tutorial cassette tapes" (cassettes were ground-breaking technology then) as the primary means of teaching the objectives. About a year later, we faculty learned of the grand plan: to eventually replace the (qualified, full-time, contracted) professors who created the courses with "course managers" (their term) who could "administer" them (like SJU's "lab assistants").

      Much of our faculty training for these "educational innovations" included "expert consultants" who lectured to us for hours about the evils of the "lecture method of instruction," and how much better higher education would be if we could "remove the lecturing professors from center-stage." One ethnographic observation I read at the time (a comparative study of a four-year liberal arts college and a neighboring community college in New York) described students of the former as enthusiastically engaged in live classroom discussions with their professor(s) while students of the latter sat with earphones in front of blinking computer screens, passively watching and listening, and not interacting with anyone.

      (FYI, I wrote about this issue in an essay titled "Beware the 'Wave of the Future'" in the "Dialogue" section of ANTHROPOLOGY NEWS, May 2001. If anyone would like a copy, email me individually. I'll also send a copy [if you haven't read it] of former SACCer Howard Paap's short story, "The Last Lecture," a delightful satire of this issue.)

      So, I sympathize with Californians who are currently embroiled in this. But I'd predict that, like past "waves of the future," MOOC's will make some useful contributions to higher education and settle into whatever niche accommodates them, but they will not replace or destroy what we already have.

      Lloyd


      On May 3, 2013, at 9:49 PM, Tim Sullivan wrote:

      > Thanks for sending this Angela. I have skimmed it, but I want to go back and read again, more carefully. It seems to speak clearly about the main issues. We haven't seen the state leg moving in this direction in Texas....yet. I am thinking about sending on to our own Fac Assoc President.
      > Tim
      > Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
      > Professor of Anthropology
      > Richland College
      > 12800 Abrams Rd.
      > Dallas, TX 75243
      >
      > 972-238-6959
      > tsullivan@...
      > >>> lauratgonzalez 05/03/13 11:28 AM >>>
      >
      > Thanks for sharing, Angela. Really good summary of the issues. So good that I've sent it to my academic senate president!
      >
      > Laura
      >
      > --- In SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, Angela Jenks wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi everyone,
      > > At the SACC meeting last month, we were discussing concerns about MOOCs
      > > (Massively Open Online Courses) and new proposals in CA to allow/require
      > > these courses to be accepted for credit at public colleges and
      > > universities.
      > >
      > > I think this response from the Philosophy Department at San Jose State
      > > University does a good job of highlighting many of the concerning issues:
      > > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Document-an-Open-Letter/138937/?cid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en
      > >
      > > Angela
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Linda Light
      Lloyd, I d love to have a copy of your Beware... essay, as well as Howard Papps satire! I think they should both be spread everywhere, especially in the
      Message 2 of 11 , May 5, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Lloyd,
        I'd love to have a copy of your "Beware..." essay, as well as Howard Papps satire! I think they should both be spread everywhere, especially in the halls of those who make educational decisions.
        Linda


        ________________________________
        From: Lloyd Miller <lloyd.miller@...>
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 11:35 AM
        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] MOOCs


        Thanks from me too, Angela. I think the SJS Philosophy Dept. folks made an important statement in defense of quality liberal arts education (beyond the usual squabbles about which classroom technique works best), and I'm glad they made it public.

        Interestingly, their fear that MOOC's will create two distinct classes of education—one, high-quality, live classroom teaching for the private elite universities, and the other, "virtual" education through digital technology for everyone else—is a repeat of the university vs. community college battles of the late 1960s. My first job in 1968 was at a new community college that hired us "charter" faculty to write "behavioral objectives" (then popular in vocational education) for our courses, and create "audio-tutorial cassette tapes" (cassettes were ground-breaking technology then) as the primary means of teaching the objectives. About a year later, we faculty learned of the grand plan: to eventually replace the (qualified, full-time, contracted) professors who created the courses with "course managers" (their term) who could "administer" them (like SJU's "lab assistants").

        Much of our faculty training for these "educational innovations" included "expert consultants" who lectured to us for hours about the evils of the "lecture method of instruction," and how much better higher education would be if we could "remove the lecturing professors from center-stage." One ethnographic observation I read at the time (a comparative study of a four-year liberal arts college and a neighboring community college in New York) described students of the former as enthusiastically engaged in live classroom discussions with their professor(s) while students of the latter sat with earphones in front of blinking computer screens, passively watching and listening, and not interacting with anyone.

        (FYI, I wrote about this issue in an essay titled "Beware the 'Wave of the Future'" in the "Dialogue" section of ANTHROPOLOGY NEWS, May 2001. If anyone would like a copy, email me individually. I'll also send a copy [if you haven't read it] of former SACCer Howard Paap's short story, "The Last Lecture," a delightful satire of this issue.)

        So, I sympathize with Californians who are currently embroiled in this. But I'd predict that, like past "waves of the future," MOOC's will make some useful contributions to higher education and settle into whatever niche accommodates them, but they will not replace or destroy what we already have.

        Lloyd


        On May 3, 2013, at 9:49 PM, Tim Sullivan wrote:

        > Thanks for sending this Angela. I have skimmed it, but I want to go back and read again, more carefully. It seems to speak clearly about the main issues. We haven't seen the state leg moving in this direction in Texas....yet. I am thinking about sending on to our own Fac Assoc President.
        > Tim
        > Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
        > Professor of Anthropology
        > Richland College
        > 12800 Abrams Rd.
        > Dallas, TX 75243
        >
        > 972-238-6959
        > tsullivan@...
        > >>> lauratgonzalez 05/03/13 11:28 AM >>>
        >
        > Thanks for sharing, Angela. Really good summary of the issues. So good that I've sent it to my academic senate president!
        >
        > Laura
        >
        > --- In SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, Angela Jenks wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi everyone,
        > > At the SACC meeting last month, we were discussing concerns about MOOCs
        > > (Massively Open Online Courses) and new proposals in CA to allow/require
        > > these courses to be accepted for credit at public colleges and
        > > universities.
        > >
        > > I think this response from the Philosophy Department at San Jose State
        > > University does a good job of highlighting many of the concerning issues:
        > > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Document-an-Open-Letter/138937/?cid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en
        > >
        > > Angela
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Angela Jenks
        Thanks for posting this, Llood--I d love to read The Last Lecture if you could send it! Also wanted to share anthropologist John Hawks s response to the SJSU
        Message 3 of 11 , May 5, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for posting this, Llood--I'd love to read "The Last Lecture" if you
          could send it!

          Also wanted to share anthropologist John Hawks's response to the SJSU
          letter:
          http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/teaching/open-letter-sjsu-philosophy-mooc-2013.html

          I think his plans for the human evolution MOOC that he's developing show a
          lot of the great things that can come out of these technologies, but I'm
          not sure his statement that "neither I nor anyone else is imagining that
          another institution will take my MOOC, clap on a teaching assistant, and
          charge students tuition to take it" is accurate. It seems like some are
          definitely imagining that.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Laura Gonzalez
          Thanks for John Hawks reply, Angela. I hadn t yet seen it. I m especially interested because I m signed up for his MOOC this fall. I appreciate his support
          Message 4 of 11 , May 5, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks for John Hawks' reply, Angela. I hadn't yet seen it. I'm especially interested because I'm signed up for his MOOC this fall. I appreciate his support for innovation in higher ed, but I agree that he may be denying himself the real administrators' purpose for adopting MOOCs, which seems to be saving money.

            Laura

            Sent from my iPhone

            On May 5, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Angela Jenks <angela.jenks@...> wrote:

            > Thanks for posting this, Llood--I'd love to read "The Last Lecture" if you
            > could send it!
            >
            > Also wanted to share anthropologist John Hawks's response to the SJSU
            > letter:
            > http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/teaching/open-letter-sjsu-philosophy-mooc-2013.html
            >
            > I think his plans for the human evolution MOOC that he's developing show a
            > lot of the great things that can come out of these technologies, but I'm
            > not sure his statement that "neither I nor anyone else is imagining that
            > another institution will take my MOOC, clap on a teaching assistant, and
            > charge students tuition to take it" is accurate. It seems like some are
            > definitely imagining that.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bob Muckle
            Hawks also had some considerable back-and-forth on Twitter, defending himself. Hawks seems pretty defensive. I m with Laura on this....I think he may be
            Message 5 of 11 , May 5, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Hawks also had some considerable back-and-forth on Twitter, defending himself. Hawks seems pretty defensive. I'm with Laura on this....I think he may be denying the real admistrator's purpose.



              Another thing to consider about MOOCs is that when compared to many big university Intro classes, with hundreds of students and mutiple teaching assistants and no written assignments, MOOCs aren't usualy such a big difference.





              Bob

              ________________________________
              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Laura Gonzalez [ltgonzalez@...]
              Sent: May-05-13 12:51 PM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: MOOCs



              Thanks for John Hawks' reply, Angela. I hadn't yet seen it. I'm especially interested because I'm signed up for his MOOC this fall. I appreciate his support for innovation in higher ed, but I agree that he may be denying himself the real administrators' purpose for adopting MOOCs, which seems to be saving money.

              Laura

              Sent from my iPhone

              On May 5, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Angela Jenks <angela.jenks@...<mailto:angela.jenks%40gmail.com>> wrote:

              > Thanks for posting this, Llood--I'd love to read "The Last Lecture" if you
              > could send it!
              >
              > Also wanted to share anthropologist John Hawks's response to the SJSU
              > letter:
              > http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/teaching/open-letter-sjsu-philosophy-mooc-2013.html
              >
              > I think his plans for the human evolution MOOC that he's developing show a
              > lot of the great things that can come out of these technologies, but I'm
              > not sure his statement that "neither I nor anyone else is imagining that
              > another institution will take my MOOC, clap on a teaching assistant, and
              > charge students tuition to take it" is accurate. It seems like some are
              > definitely imagining that.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Anthropmor
              There is also a little problem...for the last 2-3 decades, no knees moved, and our legs were cut off there. That is why there is 75% adjunct faculty. There
              Message 6 of 11 , May 5, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                There is also a little problem...for the last 2-3 decades, no knees moved, and our legs were cut off there. That is why there is 75% adjunct faculty.
                There is little support or defense- of higher ed or our departments in general.
                The whole sale dismantling of higher ed ( not to mention public education in general) has been taking place for a long time....
                Mike Pavlik



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Angela Jenks <angela.jenks@...>
                To: SACC-L <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 2:03 pm
                Subject: [SACC-L] Re: MOOCs




                Thanks for posting this, Llood--I'd love to read "The Last Lecture" if you
                could send it!

                Also wanted to share anthropologist John Hawks's response to the SJSU
                letter:
                http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/teaching/open-letter-sjsu-philosophy-mooc-2013.html

                I think his plans for the human evolution MOOC that he's developing show a
                lot of the great things that can come out of these technologies, but I'm
                not sure his statement that "neither I nor anyone else is imagining that
                another institution will take my MOOC, clap on a teaching assistant, and
                charge students tuition to take it" is accurate. It seems like some are
                definitely imagining that.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lewine, Mark
                excellent point...there is an interesting irony here...the MOOC s could be used as the answer to the developmental education issue if they can be used to
                Message 7 of 11 , May 7, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  excellent point...there is an interesting irony here...the MOOC's could be used as the answer to the developmental education issue if they can be used to enculturate students to the basics of college culture, pre-intro. course in each field of study to give students a leg up when they take the tested/graded version at their campus of record with the course of record. I wonder if we could develop a student handbook for each MOOC intro. class as a companion manual for the student.


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Bob Muckle
                  Sent: Sun 5/5/2013 4:21 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: MOOCs

                  Hawks also had some considerable back-and-forth on Twitter, defending himself. Hawks seems pretty defensive. I'm with Laura on this....I think he may be denying the real admistrator's purpose.



                  Another thing to consider about MOOCs is that when compared to many big university Intro classes, with hundreds of students and mutiple teaching assistants and no written assignments, MOOCs aren't usualy such a big difference.





                  Bob

                  ________________________________
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Laura Gonzalez [ltgonzalez@...]
                  Sent: May-05-13 12:51 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: MOOCs



                  Thanks for John Hawks' reply, Angela. I hadn't yet seen it. I'm especially interested because I'm signed up for his MOOC this fall. I appreciate his support for innovation in higher ed, but I agree that he may be denying himself the real administrators' purpose for adopting MOOCs, which seems to be saving money.

                  Laura

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On May 5, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Angela Jenks <angela.jenks@...<mailto:angela.jenks%40gmail.com>> wrote:

                  > Thanks for posting this, Llood--I'd love to read "The Last Lecture" if you
                  > could send it!
                  >
                  > Also wanted to share anthropologist John Hawks's response to the SJSU
                  > letter:
                  > http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/teaching/open-letter-sjsu-philosophy-mooc-2013.html
                  >
                  > I think his plans for the human evolution MOOC that he's developing show a
                  > lot of the great things that can come out of these technologies, but I'm
                  > not sure his statement that "neither I nor anyone else is imagining that
                  > another institution will take my MOOC, clap on a teaching assistant, and
                  > charge students tuition to take it" is accurate. It seems like some are
                  > definitely imagining that.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.