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Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

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  • Lloyd Miller
    I think you read it precisely right, Deborah. I wrote an article on this issue for our latest issue of SACC Notes, which I notice is not yet uploaded to the
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
      I think you read it precisely right, Deborah. I wrote an article on this issue for our latest issue of SACC Notes, which I notice is not yet uploaded to the website. If you'd like a .pdf of the article, let me know and I'll send it to you.

      So far, enrollment and completion data for these mushrooming "free online courses" from prestigious universities indicate that only about 10 percent of the enrollees complete them. If by chance the movement really takes hold, it would nudge higher education institutions out of the grading/certifying/credentialing business and leave them with only the tasks of teaching/educating students (my fanciful recommendation in a spring 2000 SACC Notes essay). Employers would then have to judge for themselves whether the graduates they hire are qualified for the jobs.

      Lloyd


      On Mar 13, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

      > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
      > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
      > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
      > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
      > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
      > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
      > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
      > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
      > differently?
      >
      > Deborah
      >
      > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc <blynch@...> wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
      >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
      >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
      >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
      >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
      >> Today's news adds another piece:
      >>
      >>
      >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
      >>
      >> Brian
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Deborah Shepherd
      Thanks, Lloyd. I just downloaded my pdf. Teaching and educating are good occupations. I have been watching my former CC turn from an educational institution to
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
        Thanks, Lloyd. I just downloaded my pdf. Teaching and educating are good
        occupations. I have been watching my former CC turn from an educational
        institution to a certification training school. At the same time, the
        school has clearly lost interest in the academic divisions. Should one
        institution do both? Perhaps not, but then the employers who hire the
        "certified" students lacking the education training will discover that they
        are not getting everything in an employee that they expect.

        Jill, Kent and everyone, I echo your sentiments.

        Deborah


        On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Lloyd Miller <lloyd.miller@...>wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I think you read it precisely right, Deborah. I wrote an article on this
        > issue for our latest issue of SACC Notes, which I notice is not yet
        > uploaded to the website. If you'd like a .pdf of the article, let me know
        > and I'll send it to you.
        >
        > So far, enrollment and completion data for these mushrooming "free online
        > courses" from prestigious universities indicate that only about 10 percent
        > of the enrollees complete them. If by chance the movement really takes
        > hold, it would nudge higher education institutions out of the
        > grading/certifying/credentialing business and leave them with only the
        > tasks of teaching/educating students (my fanciful recommendation in a
        > spring 2000 SACC Notes essay). Employers would then have to judge for
        > themselves whether the graduates they hire are qualified for the jobs.
        >
        > Lloyd
        >
        >
        > On Mar 13, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:
        >
        > > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough
        > faculty
        > > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
        > > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
        > > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
        > > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
        > > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
        > > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I
        > expect
        > > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
        > > differently?
        > >
        > > Deborah
        > >
        > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc <blynch@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
        > >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before
        > us.
        > >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
        > >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change
        > the
        > >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
        > >> Today's news adds another piece:
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
        > >>
        > >> Brian
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tim Sullivan
        Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound quantitative and provide anecdotes to
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
          Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound 'quantitative' and provide anecdotes to sound 'qualitative.' Crank 'em through and spit 'em out. This is exactly what sociologist George Ritzer called 'McDonaldization' some 15 years ago. If you have not read "The McDonaldization of Society' I recommend it.
          tls

          Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
          Professor of Anthropology
          Richland College
          12800 Abrams Rd.
          Dallas, TX 75243

          972-238-6959
          tsullivan@...>>> Jill Schennum <jschennum@...> 3/13/2013 1:42 PM >>>
          Dear All:



          This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy. First, slash public funding to the California schools to the point that the schools simply cannot accept all the students who apply. Then, argue that because the California community college student cannot accomodate all the demand, it is necessary to implement a system of giving credit for "free" MOOCs and publisher-designed courses. Then, begin to get rid of more and more community college faculty, and produce a worse, and worse quality of education for students.



          Community college unions across the country should take note of this and get to work on figuring out how to oppose it.



          Jill Schennum

          ________________________________
          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of kent morris [km52@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:51 PM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?



          it's all about saving money, not students...

          On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

          > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
          > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
          > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
          > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
          > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
          > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
          > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
          > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
          > differently?
          >
          > Deborah
          >
          > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc <blynch@...<mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu>> wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
          >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
          >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
          >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
          >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
          >> Today's news adds another piece:
          >>
          >>
          >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
          >>
          >> Brian
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Patricia Hamlen
          Tim I loved that book! Enjoying this discussion on quality education as I am so angry and frustrated with the turn our educational system is taking, it s
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
            Tim
            I loved that book! Enjoying this discussion on "quality education" as I am so angry and frustrated with the turn our educational system is taking, it's sad really, but predictable in a society that is so driven by capitalism and short term profitability.
            Pat

            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sullivan
            Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:34 PM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?



            Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound 'quantitative' and provide anecdotes to sound 'qualitative.' Crank 'em through and spit 'em out. This is exactly what sociologist George Ritzer called 'McDonaldization' some 15 years ago. If you have not read "The McDonaldization of Society' I recommend it.
            tls

            Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
            Professor of Anthropology
            Richland College
            12800 Abrams Rd.
            Dallas, TX 75243

            972-238-6959
            tsullivan@...<mailto:tsullivan%40dcccd.edu>>>> Jill Schennum <jschennum@...<mailto:jschennum%40ccm.edu>> 3/13/2013 1:42 PM >>>
            Dear All:

            This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy. First, slash public funding to the California schools to the point that the schools simply cannot accept all the students who apply. Then, argue that because the California community college student cannot accomodate all the demand, it is necessary to implement a system of giving credit for "free" MOOCs and publisher-designed courses. Then, begin to get rid of more and more community college faculty, and produce a worse, and worse quality of education for students.

            Community college unions across the country should take note of this and get to work on figuring out how to oppose it.

            Jill Schennum

            ________________________________
            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of kent morris [km52@...<mailto:km52%40att.net>]
            Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:51 PM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

            it's all about saving money, not students...

            On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

            > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
            > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
            > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
            > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
            > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
            > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
            > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
            > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
            > differently?
            >
            > Deborah
            >
            > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc <blynch@...<mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu><mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu>> wrote:
            >
            >> **
            >>
            >>
            >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
            >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
            >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
            >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
            >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
            >> Today's news adds another piece:
            >>
            >>
            >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
            >>
            >> Brian
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >

            --
            This message was scanned by CCM's Spam Filter and is believed to be clean.
            Click here to report this message as spam.<http://esva3.ccm.edu/cgi-bin/learn-msg.cgi?id=29E5B4F6C5F.AEE61>

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lloyd Miller
            For some satire relevant to this issue, I recommend viewing (or re-visiting) the movie, TEACHERS, co-starring Nick Nolte, Jo Beth Williams, Ralph Maccio and
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
              For some satire relevant to this issue, I recommend viewing (or re-visiting) the movie, TEACHERS, co-starring Nick Nolte, Jo Beth Williams, Ralph Maccio and Judd Hirsch, among others. I have it on tape and recently viewed it for the umpteenth time. Though made in the late 1980s, it was prescient to the educational times we're experiencing now.
              Lloyd


              On Mar 13, 2013, at 2:34 PM, Tim Sullivan wrote:

              > Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound 'quantitative' and provide anecdotes to sound 'qualitative.' Crank 'em through and spit 'em out. This is exactly what sociologist George Ritzer called 'McDonaldization' some 15 years ago. If you have not read "The McDonaldization of Society' I recommend it.
              > tls
              >
              > Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
              > Professor of Anthropology
              > Richland College
              > 12800 Abrams Rd.
              > Dallas, TX 75243
              >
              > 972-238-6959
              > tsullivan@...>>> Jill Schennum <jschennum@...> 3/13/2013 1:42 PM >>>
              > Dear All:
              >
              > This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy. First, slash public funding to the California schools to the point that the schools simply cannot accept all the students who apply. Then, argue that because the California community college student cannot accomodate all the demand, it is necessary to implement a system of giving credit for "free" MOOCs and publisher-designed courses. Then, begin to get rid of more and more community college faculty, and produce a worse, and worse quality of education for students.
              >
              > Community college unions across the country should take note of this and get to work on figuring out how to oppose it.
              >
              > Jill Schennum
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of kent morris [km52@...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:51 PM
              > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?
              >
              > it's all about saving money, not students...
              >
              > On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:
              >
              > > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
              > > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
              > > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
              > > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
              > > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
              > > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
              > > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
              > > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
              > > differently?
              > >
              > > Deborah
              > >
              > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc <blynch@...<mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu>> wrote:
              > >
              > >> **
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
              > >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
              > >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
              > >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
              > >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
              > >> Today's news adds another piece:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
              > >>
              > >> Brian
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > This message was scanned by CCM's Spam Filter and is believed to be clean.
              > Click here to report this message as spam.<http://esva3.ccm.edu/cgi-bin/learn-msg.cgi?id=29E5B4F6C5F.AEE61>
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • frank lagana
              ... Seems to me that what the ruling class really wants is a docile workforce to staff the call centers of the future. Critical thinking? The last time we
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
                >This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy.

                Seems to me that what the ruling class really wants is a docile workforce
                to staff the call centers of the future. Critical thinking? The last time
                we tried that we got the 60's; the elite certainly doesn't want a repeat of
                that.

                frank


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tim Sullivan
                Hi Pat, There are times I take heart and see a reason for hope, and then I get pulled back with stuff like this. Ah well, we plod along...... Are you coming to
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
                  Hi Pat,
                  There are times I take heart and see a reason for hope, and then I get pulled back with stuff like this. Ah well, we plod along......
                  Are you coming to Austin?
                  Take care,
                  Tim
                  Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
                  Professor of Anthropology
                  Richland College
                  12800 Abrams Rd.
                  Dallas, TX 75243

                  972-238-6959
                  tsullivan@...
                  >>> Patricia Hamlen 03/13/13 3:11 PM >>>
                  Tim
                  I loved that book! Enjoying this discussion on "quality education" as I am so angry and frustrated with the turn our educational system is taking, it's sad really, but predictable in a society that is so driven by capitalism and short term profitability.
                  Pat

                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sullivan
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:34 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?



                  Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound 'quantitative' and provide anecdotes to sound 'qualitative.' Crank 'em through and spit 'em out. This is exactly what sociologist George Ritzer called 'McDonaldization' some 15 years ago. If you have not read "The McDonaldization of Society' I recommend it.
                  tls

                  Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
                  Professor of Anthropology
                  Richland College
                  12800 Abrams Rd.
                  Dallas, TX 75243

                  972-238-6959
                  tsullivan@...>>> Jill Schennum > 3/13/2013 1:42 PM >>>
                  Dear All:

                  This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy. First, slash public funding to the California schools to the point that the schools simply cannot accept all the students who apply. Then, argue that because the California community college student cannot accomodate all the demand, it is necessary to implement a system of giving credit for "free" MOOCs and publisher-designed courses. Then, begin to get rid of more and more community college faculty, and produce a worse, and worse quality of education for students.

                  Community college unions across the country should take note of this and get to work on figuring out how to oppose it.

                  Jill Schennum

                  ________________________________
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of kent morris [km52@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:51 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                  it's all about saving money, not students...

                  On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

                  > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
                  > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
                  > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
                  > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
                  > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
                  > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
                  > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
                  > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
                  > differently?
                  >
                  > Deborah
                  >
                  > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc > wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
                  >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
                  >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
                  >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
                  >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
                  >> Today's news adds another piece:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
                  >>
                  >> Brian
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  This message was scanned by CCM's Spam Filter and is believed to be clean.
                  Click here to report this message as spam.

                  ------------------------------------

                  Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Deborah Shepherd
                  And yet, managers (probably just the middle managers) complain often that young workers can t analyze problems and lack even the most basic information about
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
                    And yet, managers (probably just the middle managers) complain often that
                    young workers can't analyze problems and lack even the most basic
                    information about the world. Eventually, these skills and facts are going to
                    be necessary in any job. So, maybe Lloyd is right (see his SACCNotes
                    Commentary). If we could let them do without the liberal arts education,
                    eventually they'd come back and demand it. Unfortunately, from where will
                    the teachers come once the current ones have dispersed?



                    Deborah



                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    frank lagana
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:56 PM
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?





                    >This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy.

                    Seems to me that what the ruling class really wants is a docile workforce
                    to staff the call centers of the future. Critical thinking? The last time
                    we tried that we got the 60's; the elite certainly doesn't want a repeat of
                    that.

                    frank

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Patricia Hamlen
                    You bet! Can t wait to see everyone! ________________________________________ From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Tim Sullivan
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
                      You bet! Can't wait to see everyone!
                      ________________________________________
                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Tim Sullivan [tsullivan@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:30 PM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                      Hi Pat,
                      There are times I take heart and see a reason for hope, and then I get pulled back with stuff like this. Ah well, we plod along......
                      Are you coming to Austin?
                      Take care,
                      Tim
                      Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
                      Professor of Anthropology
                      Richland College
                      12800 Abrams Rd.
                      Dallas, TX 75243

                      972-238-6959
                      tsullivan@...<mailto:tsullivan%40dcccd.edu>
                      >>> Patricia Hamlen 03/13/13 3:11 PM >>>
                      Tim
                      I loved that book! Enjoying this discussion on "quality education" as I am so angry and frustrated with the turn our educational system is taking, it's sad really, but predictable in a society that is so driven by capitalism and short term profitability.
                      Pat

                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Sullivan
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:34 PM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                      Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound 'quantitative' and provide anecdotes to sound 'qualitative.' Crank 'em through and spit 'em out. This is exactly what sociologist George Ritzer called 'McDonaldization' some 15 years ago. If you have not read "The McDonaldization of Society' I recommend it.
                      tls

                      Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
                      Professor of Anthropology
                      Richland College
                      12800 Abrams Rd.
                      Dallas, TX 75243

                      972-238-6959
                      tsullivan@...<mailto:tsullivan%40dcccd.edu>>>> Jill Schennum > 3/13/2013 1:42 PM >>>
                      Dear All:

                      This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy. First, slash public funding to the California schools to the point that the schools simply cannot accept all the students who apply. Then, argue that because the California community college student cannot accomodate all the demand, it is necessary to implement a system of giving credit for "free" MOOCs and publisher-designed courses. Then, begin to get rid of more and more community college faculty, and produce a worse, and worse quality of education for students.

                      Community college unions across the country should take note of this and get to work on figuring out how to oppose it.

                      Jill Schennum

                      ________________________________
                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of kent morris [km52@...<mailto:km52%40att.net>]
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:51 PM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                      it's all about saving money, not students...

                      On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

                      > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
                      > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
                      > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
                      > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
                      > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
                      > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
                      > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
                      > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
                      > differently?
                      >
                      > Deborah
                      >
                      > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc > wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
                      >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
                      >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
                      >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
                      >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
                      >> Today's news adds another piece:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
                      >>
                      >> Brian
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
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                      Click here to report this message as spam.

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                    • mlewine
                      Hi...I really miss my sacc family...I want to come to austin but willnot be able to plan until a week or so before it...sally s pd is so volatile we never
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 13, 2013
                        Hi...I really miss my sacc family...I want to come to austin but willnot be able to plan until a week or so before it...sally's pd is so volatile we never know...hope I or we can be there. Love u all...well most of u...
                        :-)


                        Sent from my Galaxy S®III

                        -------- Original message --------
                        From: Patricia Hamlen <phamlen@...>
                        Date:
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                        You bet!  Can't wait to see everyone!
                        ________________________________________
                        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Tim Sullivan i[tsullivan@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:30 PM
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                        Hi Pat,
                        There are times I take heart and see a reason for hope, and then I get pulled back with stuff like this. Ah well, we plod along......
                        Are you coming to Austin?
                        Take care,
                        Tim
                        Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
                        Professor of Anthropology
                        Richland College
                        12800 Abrams Rd.
                        Dallas, TX 75243

                        972-238-6959
                        tsullivan@...<mailto:tsullivan%40dcccd.edu>
                        >>> Patricia Hamlen 03/13/13 3:11 PM >>>
                        Tim
                        I loved that book! Enjoying this discussion on "quality education" as I am so angry and frustrated with the turn our educational system is taking, it's sad really, but predictable in a society that is so driven by capitalism and short term profitability.
                        Pat

                        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Sullivan
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:34 PM
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                        Highly efficient, very standardized, predictable and low quality. Justify with numbers/statistics to make it sound 'quantitative' and provide anecdotes to sound 'qualitative.' Crank 'em through and spit 'em out. This is exactly what sociologist George Ritzer called 'McDonaldization' some 15 years ago. If you have not read "The McDonaldization of Society' I recommend it.
                        tls

                        Timothy L. Sullivan, Ph.D.
                        Professor of Anthropology
                        Richland College
                        12800 Abrams Rd.
                        Dallas, TX 75243

                        972-238-6959
                        tsullivan@...<mailto:tsullivan%40dcccd.edu>>>> Jill Schennum > 3/13/2013 1:42 PM >>>
                        Dear All:

                        This is a classic example of neoliberal (or neoconservative) policy. First, slash public funding to the California schools to the point that the schools simply cannot accept all the students who apply. Then, argue that because the California community college student cannot accomodate all the demand, it is necessary to implement a system of giving credit for "free" MOOCs and publisher-designed courses. Then, begin to get rid of more and more community college faculty, and produce a worse, and worse quality of education for students.

                        Community college unions across the country should take note of this and get to work on figuring out how to oppose it.

                        Jill Schennum

                        ________________________________
                        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of kent morris [km52@...<mailto:km52%40att.net>]
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:51 PM
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Changes in Public Higher Education?

                        it's all about saving money, not students...

                        On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

                        > That article's premise sounds like an excuse for not hiring enough faculty
                        > on the campuses. Instead of striving to offer enough sections of crucial
                        > courses at the institution, the Legislature says that the college must
                        > simply accept substitute education from for-profit and whatever other
                        > sources. Result: accommodating students (inadequately) without raising
                        > state revenues for education. And in reading further through the article,
                        > that appears to be what the New York Times journalist thinks, too. I expect
                        > we'll be hearing about this in other states soon. Anybody read this
                        > differently?
                        >
                        > Deborah
                        >
                        > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:12 AM, bdlqvcc > wrote:
                        >
                        >> **
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Was at a conference yesterday and spoke with a small lunch-group around
                        >> questions relating to changes in higher ed that may be unfolding before us.
                        >> Growth of online learning (courses or otherwise), "free" online courses,
                        >> for-profit "learning" businesses etc. seem to be converging to change the
                        >> face of what we know as our current institutions and their operation.
                        >> Today's news adds another piece:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/13/education/california-bill-would-force-colleges-to-honor-online-classes.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
                        >>
                        >> Brian
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
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                        Click here to report this message as spam.

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                        Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links

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