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Re: SACC Name Change

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  • Mark Lewine
    Lloyd always says it better, and this in particular needed to be said...Laura was right about the name change in an academic world without poliltics...I
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 8, 2011
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      Lloyd always says it better, and this in particular needed to be said...Laura was right about the name change in an academic world without poliltics...I cannot tell you how disgusted i was when past AAA Pres. Setha Low, pulled me into her cab after I was voted chair of the Committee on Anthropology Education, and told me that she and the Council on Anthropology Education (CAE) would give me the nominees for the next year...after I told her that would not happen and violated our democratic process, that we had determined that SACC would nominate one member representing community colleges, COTA would nominate one representing universities, CAE would nominate one representing K-12 programs, and that we would also seek out Archaeology section, Linguistics section, and Museum education for public outreach nomination...she looked at me as if I were a talking bird...similar experience at the CAE meeting where they 'told me' that they were the umbrella section for all education...(99.9% of their research and panel presentations are on K-12...they have had 1 paper on community college part-time teachering in urban Chicago by a sociologist grad. student over the past 10 years)...LAURA AND SACC'ERS, I AM RELIEVED THAT WE ARE KEEPING OUR CC IDENTITY, CAN STILL REACH OUT TO ALL OTHERS AS WE HAVE OUTSTANDING EXAMPLES OF UNIVERSITY MEMBERS AND LEADERS: REMEMBER OUR LATE RACE TEACHING EXPERT LEN LIEBERMAN...AND DOROTHY DAVIS, AND OTHERS...LET'S GET MORE...LET'S GET CREATIVE AND REACH OUT TO NON AAA MEMBERS WITH A CREATIVE STATUS ON OUR WEBSITE AND AT OUR MEETINGS AS AD HOC 'MEMBERS'...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Lloyd Miller
      To: Melvin Johnson
      Cc: Laura Gonzalez ; Tad McIlwraith ; Autumn Cahoon ; nives@... ; Tim Sullivan ; Becky Stein-Frankle ; Bob Muckle ; Ann Kaupp ; katnvivi@... ; Mark Lewine
      Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:16 AM
      Subject: Re: SACC Name Change


      Yes Mel, I agree. I sense the rancid stink of university politics that I haven't smelled since graduate school. Someone once said that the level of sanctimonious viciousness in academic politics is inversely proportional to the importance of the issues. One reason why I so enjoy SACC is that such behavior is delightfully absent.


      I thought about all this as I rode through some gorgeous terrain the past few days. I think we should keep our name of SACC and proudly remain an organization of community college anthropologists that welcomes any and all teachers of anthropology to join us. Laura, your communications on this matter have been excellent. I don't want you to feel for a second that all you've done on this issue has been in vain or inadequate. With the board's assent, I'd recommend that you write a nice, short note to Virginia, et.al. saying sweetly, in effect, "Thanks for your considerable help and advice on this matter. We've decided to keep our name and continue to work toward increasing our membership and fulfilling our stated mission." (You can say it better.)


      Here's why. As SACC, our section has protected "tenure" with AAA. None of us knows for sure whether a name change would lead to increased membership. It is possible that matters of membership are quite beyond our control in any case. As Mark stated, one avenue toward our having more influence in AAA is for SACC members to fill AAA board and committee positions, and I've received some emails from AAA inviting (even begging) people to nominate themselves.


      Though small, we have managed to produce a biannual publication, a first-rate website, and annual meetings that are second to none. I'd hate to see all that disappear or be diluted. And Virginia's stick and carrot messages contain an implicit warning: AAA would not allow us to survive. With a name change, we'd lose our status within several years for insufficient membership. Or, if many other non-CC people joined, we'd soon become a minority in the very organization we created, and community colleges would cease to be represented.


      Ironically, SACC has status in AAA beyond its numbers precisely because we're unique and we teach 50 percent or so of the nation's students who take undergraduate anthropology courses. In fact, this statistic is not received well by many in AAA. Furthermore, many of our non-CC colleagues feel that the students we teach probably do not deserve a college education, I mean, if they did, wouldn't they be at a four-year college or university? And what are community colleges but second-rate versions of "real" colleges and universities; not all of their teachers even have PhDs, for Heaven's sake!


      We have had some friends in AAA as Mark's excellent historical review shows, and I believe that people like Virginia and former AAA President Don Brenneis are sincere in their admiration of us. But while SACC is about collegiality, comradeship, and even friendship, AAA is not. AAA officers come and go, but its status-conscious bureaucracy remains. If SACC goes under, few of them will shed tears. It will just reinforce suspicions of our unworthiness and that we probably didn't deserve to survive anyway.


      Membership aside, I think attendance at our San Diego meetings might be a watershed for SACC. California has the largest number of community college anthropologists. We should have a sizable turnout. I hope so.


      Bottom line: Irrespective of our official, dues-paying numbers, we remain a body of community college anthropologists that includes us officers and a fluid collection of listserv members, many of whom are probably not AAA members. We have protected status as a AAA section and therefore, by default, represent the world of community college anthropology (and by extension community colleges in general) to the AAA. Perhaps we should think about ways we could connect with, and serve as resources to, the vast numbers of people who teach anthropology in community colleges (adjuncts, people from other disciplines with the minimum required anthro. training, etc.), few if any who will ever join AAA.


      Sorry, I didn't intend to write so much.


      Lloyd












      On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Melvin Johnson wrote:


      I don't know--there is a political game being played here, which I do not trust. Why the tone should be so different is worrisome.

      Mel Johnson

      "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death." --Mame Dennis



      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      From: ltgonzalez@...
      To: ltgonzalez@...; majohns1@...; tad.mcilwraith@...; akcahoon@...; nives@...;tsullivan@...; rls@...; bmuckle@...; KAUPPA@...; lloyd.miller@...; katnvivi@...
      Subject: RE: SACC Name Change
      Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 07:45:13 -0700


      More from Virginia � She has been peppering my inbox with short �ideas� like this, which do not have the same tone as the emails sent with Bill Davis on the cc list.


      Laura




      Good morning, Laura!

      I was just thinking of how you might achieve your goals and perhaps (1) avoid past tensions among Sections, and (2) indeed appeal to a lot of other people in anthro (something I think your proposed name change could indeed accomplish, perhaps to a greater extent that you expect). I could easily see a renamed SACC (with some rewording or partial reorganization) turning into a mid-sized Section of 400-600 people. I think of the many anthropologists I know for whom anthro teaching is a very high personal priority and who may choose a "SAT" as their 2nd or 3rd Section.

      On the other hand, this might indeed mean somewhat less attention to CC's and I would hate to end up with a AAA without a Section that pays close attention to community colleges. So subcommittees--even if just 2-3--could work to achieve several goals at once.

      All the best,
      Virginia







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Barry Kass
      Ummm.......if anyone recalls, about a month or so ago I sent out a plea on this listserve that we should keep our current title of SACC, and stated some
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 8, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Ummm.......if anyone recalls, about a month or so ago I sent out a plea on
        this listserve that we should keep our current title of SACC, and stated
        some reasons why. It's gratifying that I'm now starting to see some
        agreement with my point of view.
        Barry

        On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Mark Lewine <mlewine@...> wrote:

        > Lloyd always says it better, and this in particular needed to be
        > said...Laura was right about the name change in an academic world without
        > poliltics...I cannot tell you how disgusted i was when past AAA Pres. Setha
        > Low, pulled me into her cab after I was voted chair of the Committee on
        > Anthropology Education, and told me that she and the Council on Anthropology
        > Education (CAE) would give me the nominees for the next year...after I told
        > her that would not happen and violated our democratic process, that we had
        > determined that SACC would nominate one member representing community
        > colleges, COTA would nominate one representing universities, CAE would
        > nominate one representing K-12 programs, and that we would also seek out
        > Archaeology section, Linguistics section, and Museum education for public
        > outreach nomination...she looked at me as if I were a talking bird...similar
        > experience at the CAE meeting where they 'told me' that they were the
        > umbrella section for all education...(99.9% of their research and panel
        > presentations are on K-12...they have had 1 paper on community college
        > part-time teachering in urban Chicago by a sociologist grad. student over
        > the past 10 years)...LAURA AND SACC'ERS, I AM RELIEVED THAT WE ARE KEEPING
        > OUR CC IDENTITY, CAN STILL REACH OUT TO ALL OTHERS AS WE HAVE OUTSTANDING
        > EXAMPLES OF UNIVERSITY MEMBERS AND LEADERS: REMEMBER OUR LATE RACE TEACHING
        > EXPERT LEN LIEBERMAN...AND DOROTHY DAVIS, AND OTHERS...LET'S GET
        > MORE...LET'S GET CREATIVE AND REACH OUT TO NON AAA MEMBERS WITH A CREATIVE
        > STATUS ON OUR WEBSITE AND AT OUR MEETINGS AS AD HOC 'MEMBERS'...
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Lloyd Miller
        > To: Melvin Johnson
        > Cc: Laura Gonzalez ; Tad McIlwraith ; Autumn Cahoon ; nives@... ;
        > Tim Sullivan ; Becky Stein-Frankle ; Bob Muckle ; Ann Kaupp ;
        > katnvivi@... ; Mark Lewine
        > Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:16 AM
        > Subject: Re: SACC Name Change
        >
        >
        > Yes Mel, I agree. I sense the rancid stink of university politics that I
        > haven't smelled since graduate school. Someone once said that the level of
        > sanctimonious viciousness in academic politics is inversely proportional to
        > the importance of the issues. One reason why I so enjoy SACC is that such
        > behavior is delightfully absent.
        >
        >
        > I thought about all this as I rode through some gorgeous terrain the past
        > few days. I think we should keep our name of SACC and proudly remain an
        > organization of community college anthropologists that welcomes any and all
        > teachers of anthropology to join us. Laura, your communications on this
        > matter have been excellent. I don't want you to feel for a second that all
        > you've done on this issue has been in vain or inadequate. With the board's
        > assent, I'd recommend that you write a nice, short note to Virginia, et.al.
        > saying sweetly, in effect, "Thanks for your considerable help and advice on
        > this matter. We've decided to keep our name and continue to work toward
        > increasing our membership and fulfilling our stated mission." (You can say
        > it better.)
        >
        >
        > Here's why. As SACC, our section has protected "tenure" with AAA. None of
        > us knows for sure whether a name change would lead to increased membership.
        > It is possible that matters of membership are quite beyond our control in
        > any case. As Mark stated, one avenue toward our having more influence in AAA
        > is for SACC members to fill AAA board and committee positions, and I've
        > received some emails from AAA inviting (even begging) people to nominate
        > themselves.
        >
        >
        > Though small, we have managed to produce a biannual publication, a
        > first-rate website, and annual meetings that are second to none. I'd hate to
        > see all that disappear or be diluted. And Virginia's stick and carrot
        > messages contain an implicit warning: AAA would not allow us to survive.
        > With a name change, we'd lose our status within several years for
        > insufficient membership. Or, if many other non-CC people joined, we'd soon
        > become a minority in the very organization we created, and community
        > colleges would cease to be represented.
        >
        >
        > Ironically, SACC has status in AAA beyond its numbers precisely because
        > we're unique and we teach 50 percent or so of the nation's students who take
        > undergraduate anthropology courses. In fact, this statistic is not received
        > well by many in AAA. Furthermore, many of our non-CC colleagues feel that
        > the students we teach probably do not deserve a college education, I mean,
        > if they did, wouldn't they be at a four-year college or university? And what
        > are community colleges but second-rate versions of "real" colleges and
        > universities; not all of their teachers even have PhDs, for Heaven's sake!
        >
        >
        > We have had some friends in AAA as Mark's excellent historical review
        > shows, and I believe that people like Virginia and former AAA President Don
        > Brenneis are sincere in their admiration of us. But while SACC is about
        > collegiality, comradeship, and even friendship, AAA is not. AAA officers
        > come and go, but its status-conscious bureaucracy remains. If SACC goes
        > under, few of them will shed tears. It will just reinforce suspicions of our
        > unworthiness and that we probably didn't deserve to survive anyway.
        >
        >
        > Membership aside, I think attendance at our San Diego meetings might be a
        > watershed for SACC. California has the largest number of community college
        > anthropologists. We should have a sizable turnout. I hope so.
        >
        >
        > Bottom line: Irrespective of our official, dues-paying numbers, we remain
        > a body of community college anthropologists that includes us officers and a
        > fluid collection of listserv members, many of whom are probably not AAA
        > members. We have protected status as a AAA section and therefore, by
        > default, represent the world of community college anthropology (and by
        > extension community colleges in general) to the AAA. Perhaps we should think
        > about ways we could connect with, and serve as resources to, the vast
        > numbers of people who teach anthropology in community colleges (adjuncts,
        > people from other disciplines with the minimum required anthro. training,
        > etc.), few if any who will ever join AAA.
        >
        >
        > Sorry, I didn't intend to write so much.
        >
        >
        > Lloyd
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Melvin Johnson wrote:
        >
        >
        > I don't know--there is a political game being played here, which I do
        > not trust. Why the tone should be so different is worrisome.
        >
        > Mel Johnson
        >
        > "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death." --Mame
        > Dennis
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > From: ltgonzalez@...
        > To: ltgonzalez@...; majohns1@...; tad.mcilwraith@...;
        > akcahoon@...; nives@...;tsullivan@...; rls@...;
        > bmuckle@...; KAUPPA@...; lloyd.miller@...;
        > katnvivi@...
        > Subject: RE: SACC Name Change
        > Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 07:45:13 -0700
        >
        >
        > More from Virginia � She has been peppering my inbox with short �ideas�
        > like this, which do not have the same tone as the emails sent with Bill
        > Davis on the cc list.
        >
        >
        > Laura
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Good morning, Laura!
        >
        > I was just thinking of how you might achieve your goals and perhaps (1)
        > avoid past tensions among Sections, and (2) indeed appeal to a lot of other
        > people in anthro (something I think your proposed name change could indeed
        > accomplish, perhaps to a greater extent that you expect). I could easily see
        > a renamed SACC (with some rewording or partial reorganization) turning into
        > a mid-sized Section of 400-600 people. I think of the many anthropologists I
        > know for whom anthro teaching is a very high personal priority and who may
        > choose a "SAT" as their 2nd or 3rd Section.
        >
        > On the other hand, this might indeed mean somewhat less attention to
        > CC's and I would hate to end up with a AAA without a Section that pays close
        > attention to community colleges. So subcommittees--even if just 2-3--could
        > work to achieve several goals at once.
        >
        > All the best,
        > Virginia
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lloyd Miller
        Barry, your comments inspired my missive; Chuck s and Mark s too. Sorry I didn t give appropriate attribution. Earlier, I wondered whether we so-called
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 8, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Barry, your comments inspired my missive; Chuck's and Mark's too. Sorry I didn't give appropriate attribution. Earlier, I wondered whether we so-called "silverbacks" were just a bunch of old-timers trying to resist change. I was somewhat ambivalent about the name change and shared some of my reservations with Laura privately, though generally supported it. However, after reading Virginia's emails to Laura and those of some other AAA section leaders, I realized (as Sherlock Holmes would say) that the game was afoot.

          Lloyd


          On Oct 8, 2011, at 5:34 PM, Barry Kass wrote:

          > Ummm.......if anyone recalls, about a month or so ago I sent out a plea on
          > this listserve that we should keep our current title of SACC, and stated
          > some reasons why. It's gratifying that I'm now starting to see some
          > agreement with my point of view.
          > Barry
          >
          > On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Mark Lewine <mlewine@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Lloyd always says it better, and this in particular needed to be
          >> said...Laura was right about the name change in an academic world without
          >> poliltics...I cannot tell you how disgusted i was when past AAA Pres. Setha
          >> Low, pulled me into her cab after I was voted chair of the Committee on
          >> Anthropology Education, and told me that she and the Council on Anthropology
          >> Education (CAE) would give me the nominees for the next year...after I told
          >> her that would not happen and violated our democratic process, that we had
          >> determined that SACC would nominate one member representing community
          >> colleges, COTA would nominate one representing universities, CAE would
          >> nominate one representing K-12 programs, and that we would also seek out
          >> Archaeology section, Linguistics section, and Museum education for public
          >> outreach nomination...she looked at me as if I were a talking bird...similar
          >> experience at the CAE meeting where they 'told me' that they were the
          >> umbrella section for all education...(99.9% of their research and panel
          >> presentations are on K-12...they have had 1 paper on community college
          >> part-time teachering in urban Chicago by a sociologist grad. student over
          >> the past 10 years)...LAURA AND SACC'ERS, I AM RELIEVED THAT WE ARE KEEPING
          >> OUR CC IDENTITY, CAN STILL REACH OUT TO ALL OTHERS AS WE HAVE OUTSTANDING
          >> EXAMPLES OF UNIVERSITY MEMBERS AND LEADERS: REMEMBER OUR LATE RACE TEACHING
          >> EXPERT LEN LIEBERMAN...AND DOROTHY DAVIS, AND OTHERS...LET'S GET
          >> MORE...LET'S GET CREATIVE AND REACH OUT TO NON AAA MEMBERS WITH A CREATIVE
          >> STATUS ON OUR WEBSITE AND AT OUR MEETINGS AS AD HOC 'MEMBERS'...
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: Lloyd Miller
          >> To: Melvin Johnson
          >> Cc: Laura Gonzalez ; Tad McIlwraith ; Autumn Cahoon ; nives@... ;
          >> Tim Sullivan ; Becky Stein-Frankle ; Bob Muckle ; Ann Kaupp ;
          >> katnvivi@... ; Mark Lewine
          >> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:16 AM
          >> Subject: Re: SACC Name Change
          >>
          >>
          >> Yes Mel, I agree. I sense the rancid stink of university politics that I
          >> haven't smelled since graduate school. Someone once said that the level of
          >> sanctimonious viciousness in academic politics is inversely proportional to
          >> the importance of the issues. One reason why I so enjoy SACC is that such
          >> behavior is delightfully absent.
          >>
          >>
          >> I thought about all this as I rode through some gorgeous terrain the past
          >> few days. I think we should keep our name of SACC and proudly remain an
          >> organization of community college anthropologists that welcomes any and all
          >> teachers of anthropology to join us. Laura, your communications on this
          >> matter have been excellent. I don't want you to feel for a second that all
          >> you've done on this issue has been in vain or inadequate. With the board's
          >> assent, I'd recommend that you write a nice, short note to Virginia, et.al.
          >> saying sweetly, in effect, "Thanks for your considerable help and advice on
          >> this matter. We've decided to keep our name and continue to work toward
          >> increasing our membership and fulfilling our stated mission." (You can say
          >> it better.)
          >>
          >>
          >> Here's why. As SACC, our section has protected "tenure" with AAA. None of
          >> us knows for sure whether a name change would lead to increased membership.
          >> It is possible that matters of membership are quite beyond our control in
          >> any case. As Mark stated, one avenue toward our having more influence in AAA
          >> is for SACC members to fill AAA board and committee positions, and I've
          >> received some emails from AAA inviting (even begging) people to nominate
          >> themselves.
          >>
          >>
          >> Though small, we have managed to produce a biannual publication, a
          >> first-rate website, and annual meetings that are second to none. I'd hate to
          >> see all that disappear or be diluted. And Virginia's stick and carrot
          >> messages contain an implicit warning: AAA would not allow us to survive.
          >> With a name change, we'd lose our status within several years for
          >> insufficient membership. Or, if many other non-CC people joined, we'd soon
          >> become a minority in the very organization we created, and community
          >> colleges would cease to be represented.
          >>
          >>
          >> Ironically, SACC has status in AAA beyond its numbers precisely because
          >> we're unique and we teach 50 percent or so of the nation's students who take
          >> undergraduate anthropology courses. In fact, this statistic is not received
          >> well by many in AAA. Furthermore, many of our non-CC colleagues feel that
          >> the students we teach probably do not deserve a college education, I mean,
          >> if they did, wouldn't they be at a four-year college or university? And what
          >> are community colleges but second-rate versions of "real" colleges and
          >> universities; not all of their teachers even have PhDs, for Heaven's sake!
          >>
          >>
          >> We have had some friends in AAA as Mark's excellent historical review
          >> shows, and I believe that people like Virginia and former AAA President Don
          >> Brenneis are sincere in their admiration of us. But while SACC is about
          >> collegiality, comradeship, and even friendship, AAA is not. AAA officers
          >> come and go, but its status-conscious bureaucracy remains. If SACC goes
          >> under, few of them will shed tears. It will just reinforce suspicions of our
          >> unworthiness and that we probably didn't deserve to survive anyway.
          >>
          >>
          >> Membership aside, I think attendance at our San Diego meetings might be a
          >> watershed for SACC. California has the largest number of community college
          >> anthropologists. We should have a sizable turnout. I hope so.
          >>
          >>
          >> Bottom line: Irrespective of our official, dues-paying numbers, we remain
          >> a body of community college anthropologists that includes us officers and a
          >> fluid collection of listserv members, many of whom are probably not AAA
          >> members. We have protected status as a AAA section and therefore, by
          >> default, represent the world of community college anthropology (and by
          >> extension community colleges in general) to the AAA. Perhaps we should think
          >> about ways we could connect with, and serve as resources to, the vast
          >> numbers of people who teach anthropology in community colleges (adjuncts,
          >> people from other disciplines with the minimum required anthro. training,
          >> etc.), few if any who will ever join AAA.
          >>
          >>
          >> Sorry, I didn't intend to write so much.
          >>
          >>
          >> Lloyd
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Melvin Johnson wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> I don't know--there is a political game being played here, which I do
          >> not trust. Why the tone should be so different is worrisome.
          >>
          >> Mel Johnson
          >>
          >> "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death." --Mame
          >> Dennis
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >> From: ltgonzalez@...
          >> To: ltgonzalez@...; majohns1@...; tad.mcilwraith@...;
          >> akcahoon@...; nives@...;tsullivan@...; rls@...;
          >> bmuckle@...; KAUPPA@...; lloyd.miller@...;
          >> katnvivi@...
          >> Subject: RE: SACC Name Change
          >> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 07:45:13 -0700
          >>
          >>
          >> More from Virginia ˆ She has been peppering my inbox with short „ideas‰
          >> like this, which do not have the same tone as the emails sent with Bill
          >> Davis on the cc list.
          >>
          >>
          >> Laura
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Good morning, Laura!
          >>
          >> I was just thinking of how you might achieve your goals and perhaps (1)
          >> avoid past tensions among Sections, and (2) indeed appeal to a lot of other
          >> people in anthro (something I think your proposed name change could indeed
          >> accomplish, perhaps to a greater extent that you expect). I could easily see
          >> a renamed SACC (with some rewording or partial reorganization) turning into
          >> a mid-sized Section of 400-600 people. I think of the many anthropologists I
          >> know for whom anthro teaching is a very high personal priority and who may
          >> choose a "SAT" as their 2nd or 3rd Section.
          >>
          >> On the other hand, this might indeed mean somewhat less attention to
          >> CC's and I would hate to end up with a AAA without a Section that pays close
          >> attention to community colleges. So subcommittees--even if just 2-3--could
          >> work to achieve several goals at once.
          >>
          >> All the best,
          >> Virginia
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Laura Gonzalez
          I think all of us having this discussion on the executive board are only interested in increasing the numbers of our section, while continuing to grow our
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 9, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I think all of us having this discussion on the executive board are only
            interested in increasing the numbers of our section, while continuing to
            grow our resources and networking opportunities.



            Personally, I am not married to the idea of the name change. I just believe
            it would be the best way to increase our numbers while making our name
            accurately represent the section's purpose as stated in our mission and
            by-laws:



            "The purpose of this organization shall be

            a. to stimulate communication and co operation among anthropologists and
            teachers of anthropology in community colleges, four-year colleges,
            universities and pre-collegiate institutions; and

            b. to stimulate instructional, curriculum, and program development in the
            schools and to aid in the improvement of the teaching of anthropology."



            Now that we have identified AAA politics, I believe we can navigate them
            successfully. Nonetheless, all of us on the exec would be happy to hear and
            discuss your workable ideas about positive steps forward to reach more
            community college teachers in addition to or in lieu of a name change.



            You can send your ideas directly to our current president, Mel Johnson at
            majohns1@... or to me (incoming president) at lagonzal@....



            Laura



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Hare II, William E
            I will cast my vote to keep our current name intact. Recent economic pressures in our state have forced increases in class enrollment caps making it even
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 9, 2011
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              I will cast my "vote" to keep our current name intact. Recent economic pressures in our state have forced increases in class enrollment caps making it even more difficult to maintain the quality of instruction that many seek from community colleges (i.e. small classes, direct interaction with professors, more personal assistance, etc.). While I have had limited opportunities to participate in SACC due to budget restraints, the two annual meetings I have attended have been highlights in my career. Furthermore, the sense of connection and support I get from the members has been very important for me as I am the only anthropologist at my school and I often feel isolated (I had to give a presentation to my academic division to explain what anthropology is!)

              I agree that the name change may mean an eventual lost of identity for the community college professors. Better to work on recruitment with our current name and mission than to risk extinction through AAA politics.

              Will

              William E Hare II
              Associate Professor of Anthropology



              -----Original Message-----
              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Laura Gonzalez
              Sent: Sun 10/9/2011 10:46 AM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: SACC Name Change

              I think all of us having this discussion on the executive board are only
              interested in increasing the numbers of our section, while continuing to
              grow our resources and networking opportunities.



              Personally, I am not married to the idea of the name change. I just believe
              it would be the best way to increase our numbers while making our name
              accurately represent the section's purpose as stated in our mission and
              by-laws:



              "The purpose of this organization shall be

              a. to stimulate communication and co operation among anthropologists and
              teachers of anthropology in community colleges, four-year colleges,
              universities and pre-collegiate institutions; and

              b. to stimulate instructional, curriculum, and program development in the
              schools and to aid in the improvement of the teaching of anthropology."



              Now that we have identified AAA politics, I believe we can navigate them
              successfully. Nonetheless, all of us on the exec would be happy to hear and
              discuss your workable ideas about positive steps forward to reach more
              community college teachers in addition to or in lieu of a name change.



              You can send your ideas directly to our current president, Mel Johnson at
              majohns1@... or to me (incoming president) at lagonzal@....



              Laura



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Chuck & Gail Ellenbaum
              Reading the comments from folks I highly respect within SACC and reading much of the same AAA crap we got in the 70s and 80s as we were ranked at the bottom of
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 10, 2011
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                Reading the comments from folks I highly respect within SACC and
                reading much of the same AAA crap we got in the 70s and 80s as we were
                ranked at the bottom of the food chain, I believe we should keep our
                name and full speed ahead to work on getting new members. Would it
                help SACC if people like me who couldn't wait to get out of AAA
                rejoined AAA and had SACC as our section? It is a cheap price to pay
                to maintain our identity. There are some very good people in the AAA,
                but for me, its institutional persona has been somewhat rancid. Let
                us continue to run our wonderful SACC with its welcoming friendliness
                and not worry about the rest of the AAA.

                Chuck


                On Oct 8, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Lloyd Miller wrote:

                > Barry, your comments inspired my missive; Chuck's and Mark's too.
                > Sorry I didn't give appropriate attribution. Earlier, I wondered
                > whether we so-called "silverbacks" were just a bunch of old-timers
                > trying to resist change. I was somewhat ambivalent about the name
                > change and shared some of my reservations with Laura privately,
                > though generally supported it. However, after reading Virginia's
                > emails to Laura and those of some other AAA section leaders, I
                > realized (as Sherlock Holmes would say) that the game was afoot.
                >
                > Lloyd
                >
                >
                > On Oct 8, 2011, at 5:34 PM, Barry Kass wrote:
                >
                >> Ummm.......if anyone recalls, about a month or so ago I sent out a
                >> plea on
                >> this listserve that we should keep our current title of SACC, and
                >> stated
                >> some reasons why. It's gratifying that I'm now starting to see some
                >> agreement with my point of view.
                >> Barry
                >>
                >> On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Mark Lewine <mlewine@...>
                >> wrote:
                >>
                >>> Lloyd always says it better, and this in particular needed to be
                >>> said...Laura was right about the name change in an academic world
                >>> without
                >>> poliltics...I cannot tell you how disgusted i was when past AAA
                >>> Pres. Setha
                >>> Low, pulled me into her cab after I was voted chair of the
                >>> Committee on
                >>> Anthropology Education, and told me that she and the Council on
                >>> Anthropology
                >>> Education (CAE) would give me the nominees for the next
                >>> year...after I told
                >>> her that would not happen and violated our democratic process,
                >>> that we had
                >>> determined that SACC would nominate one member representing
                >>> community
                >>> colleges, COTA would nominate one representing universities, CAE
                >>> would
                >>> nominate one representing K-12 programs, and that we would also
                >>> seek out
                >>> Archaeology section, Linguistics section, and Museum education for
                >>> public
                >>> outreach nomination...she looked at me as if I were a talking
                >>> bird...similar
                >>> experience at the CAE meeting where they 'told me' that they were
                >>> the
                >>> umbrella section for all education...(99.9% of their research and
                >>> panel
                >>> presentations are on K-12...they have had 1 paper on community
                >>> college
                >>> part-time teachering in urban Chicago by a sociologist grad.
                >>> student over
                >>> the past 10 years)...LAURA AND SACC'ERS, I AM RELIEVED THAT WE ARE
                >>> KEEPING
                >>> OUR CC IDENTITY, CAN STILL REACH OUT TO ALL OTHERS AS WE HAVE
                >>> OUTSTANDING
                >>> EXAMPLES OF UNIVERSITY MEMBERS AND LEADERS: REMEMBER OUR LATE RACE
                >>> TEACHING
                >>> EXPERT LEN LIEBERMAN...AND DOROTHY DAVIS, AND OTHERS...LET'S GET
                >>> MORE...LET'S GET CREATIVE AND REACH OUT TO NON AAA MEMBERS WITH A
                >>> CREATIVE
                >>> STATUS ON OUR WEBSITE AND AT OUR MEETINGS AS AD HOC 'MEMBERS'...
                >>> ----- Original Message -----
                >>> From: Lloyd Miller
                >>> To: Melvin Johnson
                >>> Cc: Laura Gonzalez ; Tad McIlwraith ; Autumn Cahoon ;
                >>> nives@... ;
                >>> Tim Sullivan ; Becky Stein-Frankle ; Bob Muckle ; Ann Kaupp ;
                >>> katnvivi@... ; Mark Lewine
                >>> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:16 AM
                >>> Subject: Re: SACC Name Change
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Yes Mel, I agree. I sense the rancid stink of university politics
                >>> that I
                >>> haven't smelled since graduate school. Someone once said that the
                >>> level of
                >>> sanctimonious viciousness in academic politics is inversely
                >>> proportional to
                >>> the importance of the issues. One reason why I so enjoy SACC is
                >>> that such
                >>> behavior is delightfully absent.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> I thought about all this as I rode through some gorgeous terrain
                >>> the past
                >>> few days. I think we should keep our name of SACC and proudly
                >>> remain an
                >>> organization of community college anthropologists that welcomes
                >>> any and all
                >>> teachers of anthropology to join us. Laura, your communications on
                >>> this
                >>> matter have been excellent. I don't want you to feel for a second
                >>> that all
                >>> you've done on this issue has been in vain or inadequate. With the
                >>> board's
                >>> assent, I'd recommend that you write a nice, short note to
                >>> Virginia, et.al.
                >>> saying sweetly, in effect, "Thanks for your considerable help and
                >>> advice on
                >>> this matter. We've decided to keep our name and continue to work
                >>> toward
                >>> increasing our membership and fulfilling our stated mission." (You
                >>> can say
                >>> it better.)
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Here's why. As SACC, our section has protected "tenure" with AAA.
                >>> None of
                >>> us knows for sure whether a name change would lead to increased
                >>> membership.
                >>> It is possible that matters of membership are quite beyond our
                >>> control in
                >>> any case. As Mark stated, one avenue toward our having more
                >>> influence in AAA
                >>> is for SACC members to fill AAA board and committee positions, and
                >>> I've
                >>> received some emails from AAA inviting (even begging) people to
                >>> nominate
                >>> themselves.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Though small, we have managed to produce a biannual publication, a
                >>> first-rate website, and annual meetings that are second to none.
                >>> I'd hate to
                >>> see all that disappear or be diluted. And Virginia's stick and
                >>> carrot
                >>> messages contain an implicit warning: AAA would not allow us to
                >>> survive.
                >>> With a name change, we'd lose our status within several years for
                >>> insufficient membership. Or, if many other non-CC people joined,
                >>> we'd soon
                >>> become a minority in the very organization we created, and community
                >>> colleges would cease to be represented.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Ironically, SACC has status in AAA beyond its numbers precisely
                >>> because
                >>> we're unique and we teach 50 percent or so of the nation's
                >>> students who take
                >>> undergraduate anthropology courses. In fact, this statistic is not
                >>> received
                >>> well by many in AAA. Furthermore, many of our non-CC colleagues
                >>> feel that
                >>> the students we teach probably do not deserve a college education,
                >>> I mean,
                >>> if they did, wouldn't they be at a four-year college or
                >>> university? And what
                >>> are community colleges but second-rate versions of "real" colleges
                >>> and
                >>> universities; not all of their teachers even have PhDs, for
                >>> Heaven's sake!
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> We have had some friends in AAA as Mark's excellent historical
                >>> review
                >>> shows, and I believe that people like Virginia and former AAA
                >>> President Don
                >>> Brenneis are sincere in their admiration of us. But while SACC is
                >>> about
                >>> collegiality, comradeship, and even friendship, AAA is not. AAA
                >>> officers
                >>> come and go, but its status-conscious bureaucracy remains. If SACC
                >>> goes
                >>> under, few of them will shed tears. It will just reinforce
                >>> suspicions of our
                >>> unworthiness and that we probably didn't deserve to survive anyway.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Membership aside, I think attendance at our San Diego meetings
                >>> might be a
                >>> watershed for SACC. California has the largest number of community
                >>> college
                >>> anthropologists. We should have a sizable turnout. I hope so.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Bottom line: Irrespective of our official, dues-paying numbers, we
                >>> remain
                >>> a body of community college anthropologists that includes us
                >>> officers and a
                >>> fluid collection of listserv members, many of whom are probably
                >>> not AAA
                >>> members. We have protected status as a AAA section and therefore, by
                >>> default, represent the world of community college anthropology
                >>> (and by
                >>> extension community colleges in general) to the AAA. Perhaps we
                >>> should think
                >>> about ways we could connect with, and serve as resources to, the
                >>> vast
                >>> numbers of people who teach anthropology in community colleges
                >>> (adjuncts,
                >>> people from other disciplines with the minimum required anthro.
                >>> training,
                >>> etc.), few if any who will ever join AAA.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Sorry, I didn't intend to write so much.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Lloyd
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> On Oct 7, 2011, at 9:51 PM, Melvin Johnson wrote:
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> I don't know--there is a political game being played here, which
                >>> I do
                >>> not trust. Why the tone should be so different is worrisome.
                >>>
                >>> Mel Johnson
                >>>
                >>> "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death."
                >>> --Mame
                >>> Dennis
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>> From: ltgonzalez@...
                >>> To: ltgonzalez@...; majohns1@...; tad.mcilwraith@...
                >>> ;
                >>> akcahoon@...; nives@...;tsullivan@...; rls@...
                >>> ;
                >>> bmuckle@...; KAUPPA@...; lloyd.miller@...;
                >>> katnvivi@...
                >>> Subject: RE: SACC Name Change
                >>> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 07:45:13 -0700
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> More from Virginia ˆ She has been peppering my inbox with short
                >>> „ideas‰
                >>> like this, which do not have the same tone as the emails sent with
                >>> Bill
                >>> Davis on the cc list.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Laura
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Good morning, Laura!
                >>>
                >>> I was just thinking of how you might achieve your goals and
                >>> perhaps (1)
                >>> avoid past tensions among Sections, and (2) indeed appeal to a lot
                >>> of other
                >>> people in anthro (something I think your proposed name change
                >>> could indeed
                >>> accomplish, perhaps to a greater extent that you expect). I could
                >>> easily see
                >>> a renamed SACC (with some rewording or partial reorganization)
                >>> turning into
                >>> a mid-sized Section of 400-600 people. I think of the many
                >>> anthropologists I
                >>> know for whom anthro teaching is a very high personal priority and
                >>> who may
                >>> choose a "SAT" as their 2nd or 3rd Section.
                >>>
                >>> On the other hand, this might indeed mean somewhat less attention
                >>> to
                >>> CC's and I would hate to end up with a AAA without a Section that
                >>> pays close
                >>> attention to community colleges. So subcommittees--even if just
                >>> 2-3--could
                >>> work to achieve several goals at once.
                >>>
                >>> All the best,
                >>> Virginia
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> ------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>> Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups
                >>> Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Lynch, Brian M
                Hope everyone has read about the Gov. of Florida, and his comments about how the State doesn t need anthropologists. How ill informed! The AAA has quickly
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 11, 2011
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                  Hope everyone has read about the Gov. of Florida, and his comments about
                  how the State doesn't need anthropologists. How ill informed! The AAA
                  has quickly replied.


                  Brian
                • kent morris
                  not to stereotype, but Republicans can be pretty stupid in that regard... ... From: Lynch, Brian M Subject: [SACC-L] Governor of Fla:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 11, 2011
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                    not to stereotype, but Republicans can be pretty stupid in that regard...

                    --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Lynch, Brian M <blynch@...> wrote:


                    From: Lynch, Brian M <blynch@...>
                    Subject: [SACC-L] Governor of Fla: "We don't need anthropology/anthropologists"!!
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 1:26 PM


                    Hope everyone has read about the Gov. of Florida, and his comments about
                    how the State doesn't need anthropologists.  How ill informed!  The AAA
                    has quickly replied.


                    Brian



                    ------------------------------------

                    Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lloyd Miller
                    Thanks for this, Brian; I hadn t heard. I read the Miami Herald s report and Virginia s response, then submitted the following comment to the Herald: Miami
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 11, 2011
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                      Thanks for this, Brian; I hadn't heard. I read the Miami Herald's report and Virginia's response, then submitted the following comment to the Herald:

                      Miami Herald Florida Wires
                      Dear Editor,
                      Regarding your AP article, �State doesn�t need more anthropologists,� (Oct 11, 2011): In questioning anthropology�s worth in the job market, Governor Scott overlooks its considerable value as an integral component of a college liberal arts education.
                      The study of anthropology can broaden citizens� understanding of the human species: who we are, where we came from and how we got here. It also increases our abilities to understand complex social and political issues globally, and to participate more wisely in democratic processes.
                      Anthropology includes the first 99 percent of human history, from the beginnings of the Primate Order some 65 million years ago through the origins, evolution, and rise of our species. It studies in detail the nature of world cultures, past and present, from tribal societies to civilizations. Its studies of family and kinship include all kinds, not just those of mainstream US. These are but a few of the unique contributions anthropology makes to the intellectual arsenal of educated American citizens.
                      For a more detailed discussion of this topic, see my commentary �Of What Value is Anthropology?� in the fall 2011 issue of Teaching Anthropology: SACC Notes, available to the public at saccweb.net (website of the Society for Anthropology in Community Colleges).
                      Sincerely,
                      Lloyd Miller, Editor, Teaching Anthropology: SACC Notes
                      650 48th St.
                      Des Moines, IA 50312
                      ( 515) 255-0975




                      On Oct 11, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Lynch, Brian M wrote:

                      > Hope everyone has read about the Gov. of Florida, and his comments about
                      > how the State doesn't need anthropologists. How ill informed! The AAA
                      > has quickly replied.
                      >
                      > Brian
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Andrew Petto
                      This is good, Lloyd, but I have been searching (admittedly without much luck) for specifics of Scott s actual programs and plans. So far all I can see is
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 11, 2011
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                        This is good, Lloyd, but I have been searching (admittedly without
                        much luck) for specifics of Scott's actual programs and plans. So far
                        all I can see is what he is against and what he has eliminated.

                        I suspect, however, that for things like the toll roads plan in the
                        piece posted here by Jason, we could point to every one of his projects
                        (if we could find them), and say, "Yup, anthropologists have something
                        to do with that!"

                        For example, for all the engineers and mathematicians that he hopes to
                        create, the "human factors" that we must project in order to build
                        something that people will use to its fullest extent is an area of
                        expertise that anthropologists have. It is whom engineering and
                        industrial design firms hire to do this work and it is who trains the
                        staff in these engineering and design firms to understand and
                        incorporate these "human factors" in their models.

                        Something like that.

                        I think I can make this work with the toll road example, but it would be
                        good if there were, say, a top-10 list of things that Rick Scott wants
                        to do that relies on expertise that anthropologists have.

                        Anj

                        On 10/11/2011 17:53, Lloyd Miller wrote:
                        > Thanks for this, Brian; I hadn't heard. I read the Miami Herald's report and Virginia's response, then submitted the following comment to the Herald:
                        >
                        > Miami Herald Florida Wires
                        > Dear Editor,
                        > Regarding your AP article, "State doesn't need more anthropologists," (Oct 11, 2011): In questioning anthropology's worth in the job market, Governor Scott overlooks its considerable value as an integral component of a college liberal arts education.
                        > The study of anthropology can broaden citizens' understanding of the human species: who we are, where we came from and how we got here. It also increases our abilities to understand complex social and political issues globally, and to participate more wisely in democratic processes.
                        > Anthropology includes the first 99 percent of human history, from the beginnings of the Primate Order some 65 million years ago through the origins, evolution, and rise of our species. It studies in detail the nature of world cultures, past and present, from tribal societies to civilizations. Its studies of family and kinship include all kinds, not just those of mainstream US. These are but a few of the unique contributions anthropology makes to the intellectual arsenal of educated American citizens.
                        > For a more detailed discussion of this topic, see my commentary "Of What Value is Anthropology?" in the fall 2011 issue of Teaching Anthropology: SACC Notes, available to the public at saccweb.net (website of the Society for Anthropology in Community Colleges).
                        > Sincerely,
                        > Lloyd Miller, Editor, Teaching Anthropology: SACC Notes
                        > 650 48th St.
                        > Des Moines, IA 50312
                        > ( 515) 255-0975
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Oct 11, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Lynch, Brian M wrote:
                        >
                        >> Hope everyone has read about the Gov. of Florida, and his comments about
                        >> how the State doesn't need anthropologists. How ill informed! The AAA
                        >> has quickly replied.
                        >>
                        >> Brian
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Find out more at our web site http://saccweb.net/ Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --

                        -----------------------------
                        Andrew J Petto, PhD
                        Senior Lecturer
                        Department of Biological Sciences
                        University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                        PO Box 413
                        Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                        CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                        Telephone: 414-229-6784
                        FAX: 414-229-3926
                        https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                        *************
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