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Re: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

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  • mep1mep
    Wonderful statement, Nina.  My concerns are the same as yours.  I like the idea of some sort of behavioral intervention team who can take over the
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 10, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Wonderful statement, Nina.  My concerns are the same as yours.  I like the idea
      of some sort of behavioral intervention team who can take over the
      responsibility for a troubled student.  After all, I have no training in mental
      health issues.  And might I add that my concerns center on creating a safe
      learning environment for those students whose goal is learning.  Many students
      complained about the disruptive behavior of the alleged shooter.  A democratic
      learning process doesn't mean that the class need be held hostage to one
      disturbed student.

      Many faculty at my institution have been asking for some mental health
      counselors for years.  We have a few of our regular counselors who are LPC's but
      that is not their primary function.  The bulk of their duties are advising and
      they are not always available.  We are just over 30,000 students system-wide. 
      You would think we could do better.
      Pam



      ________________________________
      From: Nina Brown <nina@...>
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 8:36:13 PM
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

       
      Hello,

      My own opinion is that the most immediate issue in the case of the Tucson
      shooter and also the army veteran at my CC was the critical lack of mental
      health services. I think it’s important to make a distinction between “messy”
      and “crazy” when it comes to being an open access institution. I am not trying
      to denigrate mental illness by using that term, but I think it’s very important
      to recognize that communication and understanding have limits and won’t
      necessarily be effective in dealing with individuals who are suffering from very
      serious mental health issues.


      The challenge for the administration is to distinguish the non-conforming and
      often difficult individuals who can participate successfully in the CC learning
      environment from the irrational and truly dangerous. This is such a difficult
      task. There are 72,000 students in my CC system and you could not pay me enough
      to be the person charged with making the policies that can stay true to the
      spirit of democratic access while still keeping everyone safe!

      I am wondering how many campuses have mental health services for students? We
      have three part-time counselors.

      At the risk of seeming to work for the New York Times by posting 2 links from
      the paper in one day, I am including a link to a recent article about campus
      based mental health services. It emphasizes that students are coming to campuses
      with much more serious mental health conditions than in the past, partially
      because advances in psychiatric drugs have allowed people with relatively
      disabling conditions to function at a higher level. The article also says that
      college itself with its deadlines and unfamiliar social environment is often the
      trigger that pushes people beyond their ability to cope.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/health/20campus.html

      Nina

      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
      Thomas
      Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:32 PM
      To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

      I'm a bit awe-struck by how these posts put our campus "security" issues into
      perspective. Any thoughts on how to tweak these for discussion in intro cultural
      anthropology classes? Shift from necessarily messy academic creativity, to
      management, security, and salability of educated persons as "products"...
      indeed!


      I lean toward emphasizing the diplomatic necessities within anthropology, and
      the attempts to communicate with and understand as much as possible about "the
      other." The tragic trends seem to be moving in some opposite direction. Call it
      the "reptilian perspective?"

      Some historical perspectives might help us recognize whether today's vitriol is
      unique, or cyclical. Incidents like that famous "caning" on the floor of the
      Senate in the mid 1800s come to mind. I believe that lack of "collegiality" had
      something to do with the slavery issue. Googling and/or historian friends could
      fill me in fairly easily.
      George

      Re: Tucson tragedy
      Posted by: "Mark Lewine" mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com>
      krameniwel
      Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:33 pm ((PST))

      At the core of our community college movement is the strong value for our
      democratic, open-door, inclusive mission. This movement of course came out
      of the mid-60's and we are also most reflective and reactive to changing
      public values in each decade. (much more so than universities, for example)
      By being present for the past 40 years in the movement, I have seen us
      develop many contradictory policies: democratic open access celebrating
      social diversity of students with multi-campuses that segregate by class and
      ethnicity; student-centered rhetoric with corporate central policies that
      have moved all power from students and faculty to the central district
      politburo; faculty with strong values for student and community involvement
      to faculty with strong values for restrictive admissions, grading,
      attendance and behavioral policies and procedures...now these are not
      completely contradictory of course, but the shift is clear: commitment to
      our 'messy' democratic and necessarily creative learning environment has
      changed to commitment to the need for a controlled learning environment that
      protects us and those in authority over the use of public money for
      educational outcomes. That is why I retire with a sense of being out of my
      "time" in our movement.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Gilliland, Mary" <mkgilliland@... <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> >
      To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
      Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:37 PM
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

      I do not wish to speak for Pima Community College as a whole, or seem to
      represent the institution, but we have recently revised our Student Code of
      Conduct. I believe one can find it on the Pima Community College website,
      though at present our website is not always easy to navigate (we are in
      process of working towards revision of that as well).

      Mary Kay Gilliland
      Pima Community College
      Tucson, AZ
      ________________________________________
      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nina

      Brown [nina@... <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> ]
      Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

      Hello,

      We had an episode in November in which an army veteran published an
      editorial in the student newspaper indicating that he was “addicted to
      killing” and often thought about killing people, etc, etc. The editorial
      also contained an ethnic slur against Muslims. The administration banned him
      from campus pending a psychological evaluation that would prove he was not a
      threat to others. This generated a tremendous amount of bad press for the
      college locally and went to the national news with the spin that the “campus
      liberals” were oppressing a veteran.

      As it turned out, the student refused to submit the necessary evaluation and
      told the media he is “choosing to withdraw” from our CC.

      I’ll also mention that our CC has done a tremendous amount of work on
      tightening the “alert” system for suspicious/concerning student behavior
      since the killings at Virginia Tech. We have an early alert system on all of
      our desktop computers for reporting behavior that concerns us even if there
      is no specific action that would be considered formal misconduct. There is a
      behavioral intervention team that investigates all reports. There are also
      "panic" buttons in all the classrooms that summon campus safety immediately.
      If anything, I was thinking lately that all of this was heavy-handed and a
      bit out of control, but now I am thinking it is a sad but necessary response
      to the times.

      For anyone who is interested:

      Original article about student banned from campus:
      http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-20/news/bs-md-veteran-suspension-20
      101121_1_iraq-veteran-war-veteran-campus-violence

      Follow-Up on student withdrawal:
      http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-04/news/bs-md-veteran-college-20110
      104_1_ccbc-evaluation-iraq-veteran

      Nina

      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>

      [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf

      Of
      mep1mep
      Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

      I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
      Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
      school
      indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
      he
      had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
      I
      was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
      believe
      we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
      behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
      only
      known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

      sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
      Pam

      Pam

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lynch, Brian M
      I just heard one of Jared Loughner’s professors talking quite openly about his behavior in class, comments on some of his tests or quizzes etc. as this
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I just heard one of Jared Loughner’s professors talking quite openly about his behavior in class, comments on some of his tests or quizzes etc. as this instructor spoke quite freely in an interview on the radio. In contrast, the report concluded with the note that officials at the college declined to talk citing the ongoing investigation and privacy rights of the (former) student. Frankly, I was shocked that his instructor was so free with details and opinions (and thought it important that college “officials” were not). It made me think about what our obligations are to our students in terms of such privacy; I have to admit, I even wondered whether this professor stepped over a FERPA line or two.



        Brian







        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Thomas
        Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:32 PM
        To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy





        I'm a bit awe-struck by how these posts put our campus "security" issues into perspective. Any thoughts on how to tweak these for discussion in intro cultural anthropology classes? Shift from necessarily messy academic creativity, to management, security, and salability of educated persons as "products"... indeed!

        I lean toward emphasizing the diplomatic necessities within anthropology, and the attempts to communicate with and understand as much as possible about "the other." The tragic trends seem to be moving in some opposite direction. Call it the "reptilian perspective?"

        Some historical perspectives might help us recognize whether today's vitriol is unique, or cyclical. Incidents like that famous "caning" on the floor of the Senate in the mid 1800s come to mind. I believe that lack of "collegiality" had something to do with the slavery issue. Googling and/or historian friends could fill me in fairly easily.
        George

        Re: Tucson tragedy
        Posted by: "Mark Lewine" mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> krameniwel
        Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:33 pm ((PST))

        At the core of our community college movement is the strong value for our
        democratic, open-door, inclusive mission. This movement of course came out
        of the mid-60's and we are also most reflective and reactive to changing
        public values in each decade. (much more so than universities, for example)
        By being present for the past 40 years in the movement, I have seen us
        develop many contradictory policies: democratic open access celebrating
        social diversity of students with multi-campuses that segregate by class and
        ethnicity; student-centered rhetoric with corporate central policies that
        have moved all power from students and faculty to the central district
        politburo; faculty with strong values for student and community involvement
        to faculty with strong values for restrictive admissions, grading,
        attendance and behavioral policies and procedures...now these are not
        completely contradictory of course, but the shift is clear: commitment to
        our 'messy' democratic and necessarily creative learning environment has
        changed to commitment to the need for a controlled learning environment that
        protects us and those in authority over the use of public money for
        educational outcomes. That is why I retire with a sense of being out of my
        "time" in our movement.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Gilliland, Mary" <mkgilliland@... <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> >
        To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
        Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:37 PM
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

        I do not wish to speak for Pima Community College as a whole, or seem to
        represent the institution, but we have recently revised our Student Code of
        Conduct. I believe one can find it on the Pima Community College website,
        though at present our website is not always easy to navigate (we are in
        process of working towards revision of that as well).

        Mary Kay Gilliland
        Pima Community College
        Tucson, AZ
        ________________________________________
        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nina
        Brown [nina@... <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> ]
        Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

        Hello,

        We had an episode in November in which an army veteran published an
        editorial in the student newspaper indicating that he was “addicted to
        killing” and often thought about killing people, etc, etc. The editorial
        also contained an ethnic slur against Muslims. The administration banned him
        from campus pending a psychological evaluation that would prove he was not a
        threat to others. This generated a tremendous amount of bad press for the
        college locally and went to the national news with the spin that the “campus
        liberals” were oppressing a veteran.

        As it turned out, the student refused to submit the necessary evaluation and
        told the media he is “choosing to withdraw” from our CC.

        I’ll also mention that our CC has done a tremendous amount of work on
        tightening the “alert” system for suspicious/concerning student behavior
        since the killings at Virginia Tech. We have an early alert system on all of
        our desktop computers for reporting behavior that concerns us even if there
        is no specific action that would be considered formal misconduct. There is a
        behavioral intervention team that investigates all reports. There are also
        "panic" buttons in all the classrooms that summon campus safety immediately.
        If anything, I was thinking lately that all of this was heavy-handed and a
        bit out of control, but now I am thinking it is a sad but necessary response
        to the times.

        For anyone who is interested:

        Original article about student banned from campus:
        http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-20/news/bs-md-veteran-suspension-20
        101121_1_iraq-veteran-war-veteran-campus-violence

        Follow-Up on student withdrawal:
        http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-04/news/bs-md-veteran-college-20110
        104_1_ccbc-evaluation-iraq-veteran

        Nina

        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
        Of
        mep1mep
        Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

        I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
        Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
        school
        indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
        he
        had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
        I
        was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
        believe
        we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
        behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
        only
        known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

        sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
        Pam

        Pam

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Deborah Shepherd
        People have been talking about this on my campus. From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynch, Brian M Sent: Tuesday,
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          People have been talking about this on my campus.

          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynch, Brian M
          Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:41 AM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy



          I just heard one of Jared Loughner’s professors talking quite openly about his behavior in class, comments on some of his tests or quizzes etc. as this instructor spoke quite freely in an interview on the radio. In contrast, the report concluded with the note that officials at the college declined to talk citing the ongoing investigation and privacy rights of the (former) student. Frankly, I was shocked that his instructor was so free with details and opinions (and thought it important that college “officials” were not). It made me think about what our obligations are to our students in terms of such privacy; I have to admit, I even wondered whether this professor stepped over a FERPA line or two.



          Brian







          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of George Thomas
          Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:32 PM
          To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sacc-l%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy





          I'm a bit awe-struck by how these posts put our campus "security" issues into perspective. Any thoughts on how to tweak these for discussion in intro cultural anthropology classes? Shift from necessarily messy academic creativity, to management, security, and salability of educated persons as "products"... indeed!

          I lean toward emphasizing the diplomatic necessities within anthropology, and the attempts to communicate with and understand as much as possible about "the other." The tragic trends seem to be moving in some opposite direction. Call it the "reptilian perspective?"

          Some historical perspectives might help us recognize whether today's vitriol is unique, or cyclical. Incidents like that famous "caning" on the floor of the Senate in the mid 1800s come to mind. I believe that lack of "collegiality" had something to do with the slavery issue. Googling and/or historian friends could fill me in fairly easily.
          George

          Re: Tucson tragedy
          Posted by: "Mark Lewine" mlewine@...<mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> krameniwel
          Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:33 pm ((PST))

          At the core of our community college movement is the strong value for our
          democratic, open-door, inclusive mission. This movement of course came out
          of the mid-60's and we are also most reflective and reactive to changing
          public values in each decade. (much more so than universities, for example)
          By being present for the past 40 years in the movement, I have seen us
          develop many contradictory policies: democratic open access celebrating
          social diversity of students with multi-campuses that segregate by class and
          ethnicity; student-centered rhetoric with corporate central policies that
          have moved all power from students and faculty to the central district
          politburo; faculty with strong values for student and community involvement
          to faculty with strong values for restrictive admissions, grading,
          attendance and behavioral policies and procedures...now these are not
          completely contradictory of course, but the shift is clear: commitment to
          our 'messy' democratic and necessarily creative learning environment has
          changed to commitment to the need for a controlled learning environment that
          protects us and those in authority over the use of public money for
          educational outcomes. That is why I retire with a sense of being out of my
          "time" in our movement.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Gilliland, Mary" <mkgilliland@...<mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> >
          To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
          Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:37 PM
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

          I do not wish to speak for Pima Community College as a whole, or seem to
          represent the institution, but we have recently revised our Student Code of
          Conduct. I believe one can find it on the Pima Community College website,
          though at present our website is not always easy to navigate (we are in
          process of working towards revision of that as well).

          Mary Kay Gilliland
          Pima Community College
          Tucson, AZ
          ________________________________________
          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nina
          Brown [nina@...<mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> ]
          Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

          Hello,

          We had an episode in November in which an army veteran published an
          editorial in the student newspaper indicating that he was “addicted to
          killing” and often thought about killing people, etc, etc. The editorial
          also contained an ethnic slur against Muslims. The administration banned him
          from campus pending a psychological evaluation that would prove he was not a
          threat to others. This generated a tremendous amount of bad press for the
          college locally and went to the national news with the spin that the “campus
          liberals” were oppressing a veteran.

          As it turned out, the student refused to submit the necessary evaluation and
          told the media he is “choosing to withdraw” from our CC.

          I’ll also mention that our CC has done a tremendous amount of work on
          tightening the “alert” system for suspicious/concerning student behavior
          since the killings at Virginia Tech. We have an early alert system on all of
          our desktop computers for reporting behavior that concerns us even if there
          is no specific action that would be considered formal misconduct. There is a
          behavioral intervention team that investigates all reports. There are also
          "panic" buttons in all the classrooms that summon campus safety immediately.
          If anything, I was thinking lately that all of this was heavy-handed and a
          bit out of control, but now I am thinking it is a sad but necessary response
          to the times.

          For anyone who is interested:

          Original article about student banned from campus:
          http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-20/news/bs-md-veteran-suspension-20
          101121_1_iraq-veteran-war-veteran-campus-violence

          Follow-Up on student withdrawal:
          http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-04/news/bs-md-veteran-college-20110
          104_1_ccbc-evaluation-iraq-veteran

          Nina

          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
          Of
          mep1mep
          Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

          I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
          Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
          school
          indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
          he
          had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
          I
          was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
          believe
          we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
          behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
          only
          known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

          sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
          Pam

          Pam

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • George Thomas
          Issues with the parents.... Today s regional paper had an article on the parents, who have remained in shock and relative seclusion since the shooting. The
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            "Issues with the parents...." Today's regional paper had an article on the parents, who have remained in shock and relative seclusion since the shooting. The mother was described as having remained in bed crying. The father was described as preparing to give a statement soon. The mother directs a city park on a decent salary, while the father seems sporadically employed, spending a lot of time with a hobby fixing up old cars to mint condition. It's been suggested elsewhere as well as in this thread that pinpointing individual psychological cases that pose potential danger is extremely difficult. One would have to know what indications existed, and how schools and parents all interpreted Jared's -- well -- arrested development.  Even the purchase of a 9-mm. Glock automatic pistol might not prove to be a red-flag, but it was certainly relevant in hindsight. So yes, it's natural to ask about parental "issues," but answers remain elusive. You can
            instill a sense of right vs. wrong in the child, even send him to school psychologists, but you can't control how it comes out when the child reaches adulthood.
            And yes, more effective psychological oversight seems needed at community colleges (involving more funding!), although from my own observations at the U. of Arizona in the 1960s-early 70s, the campus was full of mumbling loners and eccentrics.  Not all mass shootings originate from college-related frustrations and irrational responses to discipline, deadlines, etc.
            I fear that each case is unique and that we're all sitting at square one. How do we begin to address this problem?  We can certainly understand why the issue seems immune to solutions, and we can certainly use mass shooting incidents to aid in class discussions on individual vs. group motivations. But otherwise, when we attempt to dream up practical solutions, as with airline security, we seem mired in that old debate over security vs. "freedom."
            We still live in interesting times.
            G
             
             
            Re: Tucson tragedy
                Posted by: "Deborah Shepherd" deborah.shepherd@... deborah_j_shepherd
                Date: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:53 am ((PST))

            I am suspecting, from the evidence and from what officials have said, that this individual is someone who needed mental health interventions long ago. If his parents weren't helping him get these interventions before, then I would say there are issues.
            ________________________________
            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mep1mep [mep1mep@...]
            Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:44 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy



            The article indicates there may be issues with the parents.

            ________________________________
            From: "Kaupp, Ann" <kauppa@...<mailto:kauppa%40si.edu>>
            To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
            Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 7:37:23 AM
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy


            We have heard nothing from his parents?

            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Nina
            Brown
            Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:30 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

            Hello,

            There is an article in the New York Times this morning about the Tucson
            shooter's behavior in his CC classrooms and a bit about how the college
            responded.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?_r=1&hp

            Nina

            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
            mep1mep
            Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

            I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
            Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
            school
            indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
            he
            had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
            I
            was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
            believe
            we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
            behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
            only
            known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

            sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
            Pam






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mark Lewine
            In this society, we are taught many fallacious truisms that not only do not work, but cause further harm to ourselves and others: 1. problems with children or
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              In this society, we are taught many fallacious truisms that not only do not work, but cause further harm to ourselves and others:
              1. problems with children or even adults have clear and direct causes with clear and simple solutions.
              2. poor parenting strategies and techniques are responsible for most problems with children and good ones are responsible for most effective solutions.
              3. psychological analyses of social problems and solutions for same gives us substantive in-depth answers and effective results.
              4. After we use #3, we know that the whole matter can be viewed best if we just examine the individuals involved and give the responsibility for solutions to specialists who are trained to "take care of it".

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: George Thomas
              To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:53 PM
              Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy



              "Issues with the parents...." Today's regional paper had an article on the parents, who have remained in shock and relative seclusion since the shooting. The mother was described as having remained in bed crying. The father was described as preparing to give a statement soon. The mother directs a city park on a decent salary, while the father seems sporadically employed, spending a lot of time with a hobby fixing up old cars to mint condition. It's been suggested elsewhere as well as in this thread that pinpointing individual psychological cases that pose potential danger is extremely difficult. One would have to know what indications existed, and how schools and parents all interpreted Jared's -- well -- arrested development. Even the purchase of a 9-mm. Glock automatic pistol might not prove to be a red-flag, but it was certainly relevant in hindsight. So yes, it's natural to ask about parental "issues," but answers remain elusive. You can
              instill a sense of right vs. wrong in the child, even send him to school psychologists, but you can't control how it comes out when the child reaches adulthood.
              And yes, more effective psychological oversight seems needed at community colleges (involving more funding!), although from my own observations at the U. of Arizona in the 1960s-early 70s, the campus was full of mumbling loners and eccentrics. Not all mass shootings originate from college-related frustrations and irrational responses to discipline, deadlines, etc.
              I fear that each case is unique and that we're all sitting at square one. How do we begin to address this problem? We can certainly understand why the issue seems immune to solutions, and we can certainly use mass shooting incidents to aid in class discussions on individual vs. group motivations. But otherwise, when we attempt to dream up practical solutions, as with airline security, we seem mired in that old debate over security vs. "freedom."
              We still live in interesting times.
              G


              Re: Tucson tragedy
              Posted by: "Deborah Shepherd" deborah.shepherd@... deborah_j_shepherd
              Date: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:53 am ((PST))

              I am suspecting, from the evidence and from what officials have said, that this individual is someone who needed mental health interventions long ago. If his parents weren't helping him get these interventions before, then I would say there are issues.
              ________________________________
              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mep1mep [mep1mep@...]
              Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:44 AM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

              The article indicates there may be issues with the parents.

              ________________________________
              From: "Kaupp, Ann" <kauppa@...<mailto:kauppa%40si.edu>>
              To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
              Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 7:37:23 AM
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

              We have heard nothing from his parents?

              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Nina
              Brown
              Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:30 AM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

              Hello,

              There is an article in the New York Times this morning about the Tucson
              shooter's behavior in his CC classrooms and a bit about how the college
              responded.

              http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?_r=1&hp

              Nina

              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of
              mep1mep
              Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

              I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
              Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
              school
              indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
              he
              had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
              I
              was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
              believe
              we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
              behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
              only
              known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

              sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
              Pam

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mark Lewine
              Nina, open access enrollment COMBINED WITH PRIVACY RIGHTS OF MEDICAL RECORDS is the combination that seems to provide the most unsafe environment for faculty
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Nina, open access enrollment COMBINED WITH PRIVACY RIGHTS OF MEDICAL RECORDS is the combination that seems to provide the most unsafe environment for faculty and students in our open door community colleges. Faculty in particular are least protected...cases at my cc to illustrate the point:
                a.. twice in one year I had one student and one staff member charge me formally with serious harrassment- both were on different but strong anti-psychotic meds known to the 'counselors', (counselor did her formal job in the system, but told me informally that the two complainers were certifiable so that I would feel supported (?!) yet same counselor carried out the 'procedures' for such charges causing me 4 weeks of investigation by Human Resources...one charge was finally dismissed because the student claimed that I was "following her around campus and at Sam's Club...and that I was a member of the Jewish international Illuminati conspiracy exposed by Farrakan"...SHE IS STILL WORKING AT OUR CAMPUS, HAVING CHARGED FOUR MORE PEOPLE OVER 10 YEARS SEPARATELY WITH HARASSMENT OF VARIOUS KINDS..all i got for my trouble was an agreement by her supervisors and her that she is not to interact with me again...
                b.. second case involved a seriously ill student who asked me as dept. head to excuse her from group work in her anthro class...I asked her to explain and when she told me that she was being harassed at work and was not able to be safe, I asked her if she had someone at home to rely upon...she said no, so I told her to ask her prof. for a meeting to explain the problem and get a remedy for the class assignment arranged...she complained that I was trying to find out where she lived and 'get her alone' when she had no one there...for two years, I refused to ask students any personal life questions, just to avoid this kind of problem.
                c.. 3rd case was a truly dangerous student who was the only one I had removed from class in four decades...he was bothering other students with random, scary verbal and physical acts...I called security and had him removed...later learned that he had threatened two other people with death on campus that day!!! I had to change my phone number and phone book name to keep him away.
                Conclusion: why are we left vulnerable as faculty in open door colleges, without rights to student info about dangerous conditions and often without even college protection for our role (I was told Deans through Presidents have protection, not faculty, at a workshop after a prof. was punched out and had to get his own lawyer)
                a.. ---- Original Message -----
                From: Nina Brown
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:36 PM
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy



                Hello,

                My own opinion is that the most immediate issue in the case of the Tucson shooter and also the army veteran at my CC was the critical lack of mental health services. I think it’s important to make a distinction between “messy” and “crazy” when it comes to being an open access institution. I am not trying to denigrate mental illness by using that term, but I think it’s very important to recognize that communication and understanding have limits and won’t necessarily be effective in dealing with individuals who are suffering from very serious mental health issues.

                The challenge for the administration is to distinguish the non-conforming and often difficult individuals who can participate successfully in the CC learning environment from the irrational and truly dangerous. This is such a difficult task. There are 72,000 students in my CC system and you could not pay me enough to be the person charged with making the policies that can stay true to the spirit of democratic access while still keeping everyone safe!

                I am wondering how many campuses have mental health services for students? We have three part-time counselors.

                At the risk of seeming to work for the New York Times by posting 2 links from the paper in one day, I am including a link to a recent article about campus based mental health services. It emphasizes that students are coming to campuses with much more serious mental health conditions than in the past, partially because advances in psychiatric drugs have allowed people with relatively disabling conditions to function at a higher level. The article also says that college itself with its deadlines and unfamiliar social environment is often the trigger that pushes people beyond their ability to cope.

                http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/health/20campus.html

                Nina

                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Thomas
                Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:32 PM
                To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                I'm a bit awe-struck by how these posts put our campus "security" issues into perspective. Any thoughts on how to tweak these for discussion in intro cultural anthropology classes? Shift from necessarily messy academic creativity, to management, security, and salability of educated persons as "products"... indeed!

                I lean toward emphasizing the diplomatic necessities within anthropology, and the attempts to communicate with and understand as much as possible about "the other." The tragic trends seem to be moving in some opposite direction. Call it the "reptilian perspective?"

                Some historical perspectives might help us recognize whether today's vitriol is unique, or cyclical. Incidents like that famous "caning" on the floor of the Senate in the mid 1800s come to mind. I believe that lack of "collegiality" had something to do with the slavery issue. Googling and/or historian friends could fill me in fairly easily.
                George

                Re: Tucson tragedy
                Posted by: "Mark Lewine" mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> krameniwel
                Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:33 pm ((PST))

                At the core of our community college movement is the strong value for our
                democratic, open-door, inclusive mission. This movement of course came out
                of the mid-60's and we are also most reflective and reactive to changing
                public values in each decade. (much more so than universities, for example)
                By being present for the past 40 years in the movement, I have seen us
                develop many contradictory policies: democratic open access celebrating
                social diversity of students with multi-campuses that segregate by class and
                ethnicity; student-centered rhetoric with corporate central policies that
                have moved all power from students and faculty to the central district
                politburo; faculty with strong values for student and community involvement
                to faculty with strong values for restrictive admissions, grading,
                attendance and behavioral policies and procedures...now these are not
                completely contradictory of course, but the shift is clear: commitment to
                our 'messy' democratic and necessarily creative learning environment has
                changed to commitment to the need for a controlled learning environment that
                protects us and those in authority over the use of public money for
                educational outcomes. That is why I retire with a sense of being out of my
                "time" in our movement.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Gilliland, Mary" <mkgilliland@... <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> >
                To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
                Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:37 PM
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                I do not wish to speak for Pima Community College as a whole, or seem to
                represent the institution, but we have recently revised our Student Code of
                Conduct. I believe one can find it on the Pima Community College website,
                though at present our website is not always easy to navigate (we are in
                process of working towards revision of that as well).

                Mary Kay Gilliland
                Pima Community College
                Tucson, AZ
                ________________________________________
                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nina
                Brown [nina@... <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> ]
                Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                Hello,

                We had an episode in November in which an army veteran published an
                editorial in the student newspaper indicating that he was “addicted to
                killing” and often thought about killing people, etc, etc. The editorial
                also contained an ethnic slur against Muslims. The administration banned him
                from campus pending a psychological evaluation that would prove he was not a
                threat to others. This generated a tremendous amount of bad press for the
                college locally and went to the national news with the spin that the “campus
                liberals” were oppressing a veteran.

                As it turned out, the student refused to submit the necessary evaluation and
                told the media he is “choosing to withdraw” from our CC.

                I’ll also mention that our CC has done a tremendous amount of work on
                tightening the “alert” system for suspicious/concerning student behavior
                since the killings at Virginia Tech. We have an early alert system on all of
                our desktop computers for reporting behavior that concerns us even if there
                is no specific action that would be considered formal misconduct. There is a
                behavioral intervention team that investigates all reports. There are also
                "panic" buttons in all the classrooms that summon campus safety immediately.
                If anything, I was thinking lately that all of this was heavy-handed and a
                bit out of control, but now I am thinking it is a sad but necessary response
                to the times.

                For anyone who is interested:

                Original article about student banned from campus:
                http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-20/news/bs-md-veteran-suspension-20
                101121_1_iraq-veteran-war-veteran-campus-violence

                Follow-Up on student withdrawal:
                http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-04/news/bs-md-veteran-college-20110
                104_1_ccbc-evaluation-iraq-veteran

                Nina

                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                Of
                mep1mep
                Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
                Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
                school
                indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
                he
                had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
                I
                was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
                believe
                we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
                behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
                only
                known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

                sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
                Pam

                Pam

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nina Brown
                Hello, Yes, Mark I agree with what you are saying that faculty are too exposed. I mentioned in another post that my cc has taken some actions that I believe
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello,



                  Yes, Mark I agree with what you are saying that faculty are too exposed. I mentioned in another post that my cc has taken some actions that I believe are helpful including having a behavioral intervention team that follows up on faculty concerns, tracks reports from multiple sources and hopefully takes the burden off faculty for dealing with all the medical and legal angles. Our campus security staff has also become sworn “peace officers” this year which means they can legally arrest students and have other police powers, basically everything short of going around armed. We have panic buttons in the classrooms. I’m feeling OK about this infrastructure at the moment, but I think that anyone who is working on a campus where he/she does not feel safe needs to think about what can be done with the administration to put better procedures in place. I know faculty have greater and lesser degrees of power at various colleges and this is a problem, but I don’t think the situation is hopeless. I get the sense that college Presidents on down the line are nervous right now. They don’t want to be the ones standing in front of the media explaining how they allowed a shooter to run rampant on the campus. This might be an opportune moment for faculty to organize and demand better safety measures.



                  For what it’s worth, I adjunct at a definitively closed door college (it is an exclusive private college) and faculty there are actually more exposed. There are no safety procedures of any kind unless you count the security guards whose main job is to stop the students from getting mugged in the neighborhood. I get the feeling they do not see their wealthy and academically successful population as a potential threat. This may or may not turn out to be a solid assumption…



                  Personally, I don’t want to see anyone’s medical records, but I do want a solid system to back me up when there is a problem.



                  Nina



                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lewine
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 3:53 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy





                  Nina, open access enrollment COMBINED WITH PRIVACY RIGHTS OF MEDICAL RECORDS is the combination that seems to provide the most unsafe environment for faculty and students in our open door community colleges. Faculty in particular are least protected...cases at my cc to illustrate the point:
                  a.. twice in one year I had one student and one staff member charge me formally with serious harrassment- both were on different but strong anti-psychotic meds known to the 'counselors', (counselor did her formal job in the system, but told me informally that the two complainers were certifiable so that I would feel supported (?!) yet same counselor carried out the 'procedures' for such charges causing me 4 weeks of investigation by Human Resources...one charge was finally dismissed because the student claimed that I was "following her around campus and at Sam's Club...and that I was a member of the Jewish international Illuminati conspiracy exposed by Farrakan"...SHE IS STILL WORKING AT OUR CAMPUS, HAVING CHARGED FOUR MORE PEOPLE OVER 10 YEARS SEPARATELY WITH HARASSMENT OF VARIOUS KINDS..all i got for my trouble was an agreement by her supervisors and her that she is not to interact with me again...
                  b.. second case involved a seriously ill student who asked me as dept. head to excuse her from group work in her anthro class...I asked her to explain and when she told me that she was being harassed at work and was not able to be safe, I asked her if she had someone at home to rely upon...she said no, so I told her to ask her prof. for a meeting to explain the problem and get a remedy for the class assignment arranged...she complained that I was trying to find out where she lived and 'get her alone' when she had no one there...for two years, I refused to ask students any personal life questions, just to avoid this kind of problem.
                  c.. 3rd case was a truly dangerous student who was the only one I had removed from class in four decades...he was bothering other students with random, scary verbal and physical acts...I called security and had him removed...later learned that he had threatened two other people with death on campus that day!!! I had to change my phone number and phone book name to keep him away.
                  Conclusion: why are we left vulnerable as faculty in open door colleges, without rights to student info about dangerous conditions and often without even college protection for our role (I was told Deans through Presidents have protection, not faculty, at a workshop after a prof. was punched out and had to get his own lawyer)
                  a.. ---- Original Message -----
                  From: Nina Brown
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:36 PM
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                  Hello,

                  My own opinion is that the most immediate issue in the case of the Tucson shooter and also the army veteran at my CC was the critical lack of mental health services. I think it’s important to make a distinction between “messy” and “crazy” when it comes to being an open access institution. I am not trying to denigrate mental illness by using that term, but I think it’s very important to recognize that communication and understanding have limits and won’t necessarily be effective in dealing with individuals who are suffering from very serious mental health issues.

                  The challenge for the administration is to distinguish the non-conforming and often difficult individuals who can participate successfully in the CC learning environment from the irrational and truly dangerous. This is such a difficult task. There are 72,000 students in my CC system and you could not pay me enough to be the person charged with making the policies that can stay true to the spirit of democratic access while still keeping everyone safe!

                  I am wondering how many campuses have mental health services for students? We have three part-time counselors.

                  At the risk of seeming to work for the New York Times by posting 2 links from the paper in one day, I am including a link to a recent article about campus based mental health services. It emphasizes that students are coming to campuses with much more serious mental health conditions than in the past, partially because advances in psychiatric drugs have allowed people with relatively disabling conditions to function at a higher level. The article also says that college itself with its deadlines and unfamiliar social environment is often the trigger that pushes people beyond their ability to cope.

                  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/health/20campus.html

                  Nina

                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of George Thomas
                  Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:32 PM
                  To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sacc-l%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                  I'm a bit awe-struck by how these posts put our campus "security" issues into perspective. Any thoughts on how to tweak these for discussion in intro cultural anthropology classes? Shift from necessarily messy academic creativity, to management, security, and salability of educated persons as "products"... indeed!

                  I lean toward emphasizing the diplomatic necessities within anthropology, and the attempts to communicate with and understand as much as possible about "the other." The tragic trends seem to be moving in some opposite direction. Call it the "reptilian perspective?"

                  Some historical perspectives might help us recognize whether today's vitriol is unique, or cyclical. Incidents like that famous "caning" on the floor of the Senate in the mid 1800s come to mind. I believe that lack of "collegiality" had something to do with the slavery issue. Googling and/or historian friends could fill me in fairly easily.
                  George

                  Re: Tucson tragedy
                  Posted by: "Mark Lewine" mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> krameniwel
                  Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:33 pm ((PST))

                  At the core of our community college movement is the strong value for our
                  democratic, open-door, inclusive mission. This movement of course came out
                  of the mid-60's and we are also most reflective and reactive to changing
                  public values in each decade. (much more so than universities, for example)
                  By being present for the past 40 years in the movement, I have seen us
                  develop many contradictory policies: democratic open access celebrating
                  social diversity of students with multi-campuses that segregate by class and
                  ethnicity; student-centered rhetoric with corporate central policies that
                  have moved all power from students and faculty to the central district
                  politburo; faculty with strong values for student and community involvement
                  to faculty with strong values for restrictive admissions, grading,
                  attendance and behavioral policies and procedures...now these are not
                  completely contradictory of course, but the shift is clear: commitment to
                  our 'messy' democratic and necessarily creative learning environment has
                  changed to commitment to the need for a controlled learning environment that
                  protects us and those in authority over the use of public money for
                  educational outcomes. That is why I retire with a sense of being out of my
                  "time" in our movement.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Gilliland, Mary" <mkgilliland@... <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> >
                  To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
                  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:37 PM
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                  I do not wish to speak for Pima Community College as a whole, or seem to
                  represent the institution, but we have recently revised our Student Code of
                  Conduct. I believe one can find it on the Pima Community College website,
                  though at present our website is not always easy to navigate (we are in
                  process of working towards revision of that as well).

                  Mary Kay Gilliland
                  Pima Community College
                  Tucson, AZ
                  ________________________________________
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nina
                  Brown [nina@... <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> ]
                  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                  Hello,

                  We had an episode in November in which an army veteran published an
                  editorial in the student newspaper indicating that he was “addicted to
                  killing” and often thought about killing people, etc, etc. The editorial
                  also contained an ethnic slur against Muslims. The administration banned him
                  from campus pending a psychological evaluation that would prove he was not a
                  threat to others. This generated a tremendous amount of bad press for the
                  college locally and went to the national news with the spin that the “campus
                  liberals” were oppressing a veteran.

                  As it turned out, the student refused to submit the necessary evaluation and
                  told the media he is “choosing to withdraw” from our CC.

                  I’ll also mention that our CC has done a tremendous amount of work on
                  tightening the “alert” system for suspicious/concerning student behavior
                  since the killings at Virginia Tech. We have an early alert system on all of
                  our desktop computers for reporting behavior that concerns us even if there
                  is no specific action that would be considered formal misconduct. There is a
                  behavioral intervention team that investigates all reports. There are also
                  "panic" buttons in all the classrooms that summon campus safety immediately.
                  If anything, I was thinking lately that all of this was heavy-handed and a
                  bit out of control, but now I am thinking it is a sad but necessary response
                  to the times.

                  For anyone who is interested:

                  Original article about student banned from campus:
                  http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-20/news/bs-md-veteran-suspension-20
                  101121_1_iraq-veteran-war-veteran-campus-violence

                  Follow-Up on student withdrawal:
                  http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-04/news/bs-md-veteran-college-20110
                  104_1_ccbc-evaluation-iraq-veteran

                  Nina

                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                  [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                  Of
                  mep1mep
                  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                  I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
                  Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
                  school
                  indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
                  he
                  had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
                  I
                  was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
                  believe
                  we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
                  behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
                  only
                  known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

                  sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
                  Pam

                  Pam

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mark Lewine
                  Nina, your ideas and experiences on this issue offer significant improvements on what is now done at most of our colleges...perhaps you might offer a
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 11, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Nina, your ideas and experiences on this issue offer significant improvements on what is now done at most of our colleges...perhaps you might offer a roundtable discussion of this timely problem at our next SACC meeting and I would certainly like to join you in this sorely needed effort. It is important and the pressures on our students are not going to go away soon, so it is timely.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Nina Brown
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:29 PM
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy



                    Hello,

                    Yes, Mark I agree with what you are saying that faculty are too exposed. I mentioned in another post that my cc has taken some actions that I believe are helpful including having a behavioral intervention team that follows up on faculty concerns, tracks reports from multiple sources and hopefully takes the burden off faculty for dealing with all the medical and legal angles. Our campus security staff has also become sworn “peace officers” this year which means they can legally arrest students and have other police powers, basically everything short of going around armed. We have panic buttons in the classrooms. I’m feeling OK about this infrastructure at the moment, but I think that anyone who is working on a campus where he/she does not feel safe needs to think about what can be done with the administration to put better procedures in place. I know faculty have greater and lesser degrees of power at various colleges and this is a problem, but I don’t think the situation is hopeless. I get the sense that college Presidents on down the line are nervous right now. They don’t want to be the ones standing in front of the media explaining how they allowed a shooter to run rampant on the campus. This might be an opportune moment for faculty to organize and demand better safety measures.

                    For what it’s worth, I adjunct at a definitively closed door college (it is an exclusive private college) and faculty there are actually more exposed. There are no safety procedures of any kind unless you count the security guards whose main job is to stop the students from getting mugged in the neighborhood. I get the feeling they do not see their wealthy and academically successful population as a potential threat. This may or may not turn out to be a solid assumption…

                    Personally, I don’t want to see anyone’s medical records, but I do want a solid system to back me up when there is a problem.

                    Nina

                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lewine
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 3:53 PM
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                    Nina, open access enrollment COMBINED WITH PRIVACY RIGHTS OF MEDICAL RECORDS is the combination that seems to provide the most unsafe environment for faculty and students in our open door community colleges. Faculty in particular are least protected...cases at my cc to illustrate the point:
                    a.. twice in one year I had one student and one staff member charge me formally with serious harrassment- both were on different but strong anti-psychotic meds known to the 'counselors', (counselor did her formal job in the system, but told me informally that the two complainers were certifiable so that I would feel supported (?!) yet same counselor carried out the 'procedures' for such charges causing me 4 weeks of investigation by Human Resources...one charge was finally dismissed because the student claimed that I was "following her around campus and at Sam's Club...and that I was a member of the Jewish international Illuminati conspiracy exposed by Farrakan"...SHE IS STILL WORKING AT OUR CAMPUS, HAVING CHARGED FOUR MORE PEOPLE OVER 10 YEARS SEPARATELY WITH HARASSMENT OF VARIOUS KINDS..all i got for my trouble was an agreement by her supervisors and her that she is not to interact with me again...
                    b.. second case involved a seriously ill student who asked me as dept. head to excuse her from group work in her anthro class...I asked her to explain and when she told me that she was being harassed at work and was not able to be safe, I asked her if she had someone at home to rely upon...she said no, so I told her to ask her prof. for a meeting to explain the problem and get a remedy for the class assignment arranged...she complained that I was trying to find out where she lived and 'get her alone' when she had no one there...for two years, I refused to ask students any personal life questions, just to avoid this kind of problem.
                    c.. 3rd case was a truly dangerous student who was the only one I had removed from class in four decades...he was bothering other students with random, scary verbal and physical acts...I called security and had him removed...later learned that he had threatened two other people with death on campus that day!!! I had to change my phone number and phone book name to keep him away.
                    Conclusion: why are we left vulnerable as faculty in open door colleges, without rights to student info about dangerous conditions and often without even college protection for our role (I was told Deans through Presidents have protection, not faculty, at a workshop after a prof. was punched out and had to get his own lawyer)
                    a.. ---- Original Message -----
                    From: Nina Brown
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:36 PM
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                    Hello,

                    My own opinion is that the most immediate issue in the case of the Tucson shooter and also the army veteran at my CC was the critical lack of mental health services. I think it’s important to make a distinction between “messy” and “crazy” when it comes to being an open access institution. I am not trying to denigrate mental illness by using that term, but I think it’s very important to recognize that communication and understanding have limits and won’t necessarily be effective in dealing with individuals who are suffering from very serious mental health issues.

                    The challenge for the administration is to distinguish the non-conforming and often difficult individuals who can participate successfully in the CC learning environment from the irrational and truly dangerous. This is such a difficult task. There are 72,000 students in my CC system and you could not pay me enough to be the person charged with making the policies that can stay true to the spirit of democratic access while still keeping everyone safe!

                    I am wondering how many campuses have mental health services for students? We have three part-time counselors.

                    At the risk of seeming to work for the New York Times by posting 2 links from the paper in one day, I am including a link to a recent article about campus based mental health services. It emphasizes that students are coming to campuses with much more serious mental health conditions than in the past, partially because advances in psychiatric drugs have allowed people with relatively disabling conditions to function at a higher level. The article also says that college itself with its deadlines and unfamiliar social environment is often the trigger that pushes people beyond their ability to cope.

                    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/health/20campus.html

                    Nina

                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of George Thomas
                    Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:32 PM
                    To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sacc-l%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                    I'm a bit awe-struck by how these posts put our campus "security" issues into perspective. Any thoughts on how to tweak these for discussion in intro cultural anthropology classes? Shift from necessarily messy academic creativity, to management, security, and salability of educated persons as "products"... indeed!

                    I lean toward emphasizing the diplomatic necessities within anthropology, and the attempts to communicate with and understand as much as possible about "the other." The tragic trends seem to be moving in some opposite direction. Call it the "reptilian perspective?"

                    Some historical perspectives might help us recognize whether today's vitriol is unique, or cyclical. Incidents like that famous "caning" on the floor of the Senate in the mid 1800s come to mind. I believe that lack of "collegiality" had something to do with the slavery issue. Googling and/or historian friends could fill me in fairly easily.
                    George

                    Re: Tucson tragedy
                    Posted by: "Mark Lewine" mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> krameniwel
                    Date: Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:33 pm ((PST))

                    At the core of our community college movement is the strong value for our
                    democratic, open-door, inclusive mission. This movement of course came out
                    of the mid-60's and we are also most reflective and reactive to changing
                    public values in each decade. (much more so than universities, for example)
                    By being present for the past 40 years in the movement, I have seen us
                    develop many contradictory policies: democratic open access celebrating
                    social diversity of students with multi-campuses that segregate by class and
                    ethnicity; student-centered rhetoric with corporate central policies that
                    have moved all power from students and faculty to the central district
                    politburo; faculty with strong values for student and community involvement
                    to faculty with strong values for restrictive admissions, grading,
                    attendance and behavioral policies and procedures...now these are not
                    completely contradictory of course, but the shift is clear: commitment to
                    our 'messy' democratic and necessarily creative learning environment has
                    changed to commitment to the need for a controlled learning environment that
                    protects us and those in authority over the use of public money for
                    educational outcomes. That is why I retire with a sense of being out of my
                    "time" in our movement.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Gilliland, Mary" <mkgilliland@... <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> <mailto:mkgilliland%40pima.edu> >
                    To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
                    Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:37 PM
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                    I do not wish to speak for Pima Community College as a whole, or seem to
                    represent the institution, but we have recently revised our Student Code of
                    Conduct. I believe one can find it on the Pima Community College website,
                    though at present our website is not always easy to navigate (we are in
                    process of working towards revision of that as well).

                    Mary Kay Gilliland
                    Pima Community College
                    Tucson, AZ
                    ________________________________________
                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Nina
                    Brown [nina@... <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> <mailto:nina%40thethirdfloor.com> ]
                    Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:02 PM
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                    Hello,

                    We had an episode in November in which an army veteran published an
                    editorial in the student newspaper indicating that he was “addicted to
                    killing” and often thought about killing people, etc, etc. The editorial
                    also contained an ethnic slur against Muslims. The administration banned him
                    from campus pending a psychological evaluation that would prove he was not a
                    threat to others. This generated a tremendous amount of bad press for the
                    college locally and went to the national news with the spin that the “campus
                    liberals” were oppressing a veteran.

                    As it turned out, the student refused to submit the necessary evaluation and
                    told the media he is “choosing to withdraw” from our CC.

                    I’ll also mention that our CC has done a tremendous amount of work on
                    tightening the “alert” system for suspicious/concerning student behavior
                    since the killings at Virginia Tech. We have an early alert system on all of
                    our desktop computers for reporting behavior that concerns us even if there
                    is no specific action that would be considered formal misconduct. There is a
                    behavioral intervention team that investigates all reports. There are also
                    "panic" buttons in all the classrooms that summon campus safety immediately.
                    If anything, I was thinking lately that all of this was heavy-handed and a
                    bit out of control, but now I am thinking it is a sad but necessary response
                    to the times.

                    For anyone who is interested:

                    Original article about student banned from campus:
                    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-11-20/news/bs-md-veteran-suspension-20
                    101121_1_iraq-veteran-war-veteran-campus-violence

                    Follow-Up on student withdrawal:
                    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-04/news/bs-md-veteran-college-20110
                    104_1_ccbc-evaluation-iraq-veteran

                    Nina

                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                    Of
                    mep1mep
                    Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:24 PM
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [SACC-L] Tucson tragedy

                    I read in the press that the alleged shooter had been suspended from Pima
                    Community College and that after viewing his YouTube postings that the
                    school
                    indicated to his parents that he would not be permitted back on campus until
                    he
                    had obtained a mental health evaluation that indicated he was not a danger.
                    I
                    was a bit impressed with this directive. I may be mistaken but I don't
                    believe
                    we have such provisions at my institution, although we do have some student
                    behavior policies which can lead to suspension. In my twenty years, I have
                    only
                    known of one banned student and he was found to have engaged in some serious

                    sexual harrassment. Any thoughts/comparisons?
                    Pam

                    Pam

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nina Brown
                    Hello, I am willing to organize a roundtable if it would be useful. I am actually quite surprised bordering on astonished to see that my college is toward the
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 12, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello,



                      I am willing to organize a roundtable if it would be useful. I am actually quite surprised bordering on astonished to see that my college is toward the front on this issue. Surely there are others out there whose colleges are also getting proactive with security measures….?



                      Nina



                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lewine
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy





                      Nina, your ideas and experiences on this issue offer significant improvements on what is now done at most of our colleges...perhaps you might offer a roundtable discussion of this timely problem at our next SACC meeting and I would certainly like to join you in this sorely needed effort. It is important and the pressures on our students are not going to go away soon, so it is timely.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Nina Brown
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:29 PM
                      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lori Barkley
                      From North of the border... CBC Radio (The Current) was discussing this issue this morning. The question was whether the College had an obligation to contact
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 12, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        From North of the border...

                        CBC Radio (The Current) was discussing this issue this morning. The question was whether the College had an obligation to contact the police. As you know, this depends on state laws. The opinion on the Arizona case is that the law would have allowed for the police to be called. The question was whether or not the College had actually fulfilled its duty to protect from harm both the student & others. Did it end when they said he required mental assessment prior to returning to College? The answer seemed to be no. They talked of students freely discussing how they thought he was going to bring a gun to class, sitting by the door so that they could escape quickly, etc. Alas I had to teach a class so didn't hear the end of it. You could get it on line.

                        We are also hearing on the news here about how sales of the gun he used in the shooting increased dramatically since the shooting.

                        We are also hearing, although much less frequently, about the culture of violence & "with us or against us" attitude prevailing American politics & trickling down to the folk. Were those really cross-hairs or a net of Democratic Representatives photos on Sarah Palin's website?


                        On my campus & I'm suspecting many others, budget constraints take priority of "what could happen if" something went terribly wrong. Which, by the way, happened over a decade ago--a student brought a gun on a field trip & started threatening other students (luckily no-one was hurt). Over a decade later we have no security, none, not even cameras & certainly no panic buttons. Faculty teach beyond 4:00 when the administrators & support staff leave (who we are to call in a dangerous situation), so we may be working with no-one else around except another faculty member in another wing. We are also the bus connection point, so we have community members as well as students on campus & no way to tell the difference. It is also unclear if policies for student & staff apply to the bus riders!

                        I had a student who was "disturbed" & threatening a few years ago. A number of us had noticed this & reported it. The response of the institution was to send a letter to his home telling him his behaviour was inappropriate & identified me specifically. I felt quite strongly that this letter may have "pushed" him over the edge & was quite frightened for a while. Although the directive comes from administration, I can't imagine that there are many students who are dealing with mental health issues who wouldn't blame their profs for the situation in which they now find themselves.

                        It really is too bad that we have to discuss this at all, but it has been an engaging discussion to follow. I've sent some of the links to our folks here in hopes it can make change.

                        Lori Barkley (in Canada)




                        >>> "Nina Brown" <nina@...> 12/01/2011 10:57 am >>>

                        Hello,

                        I am willing to organize a roundtable if it would be useful. I am actually quite surprised bordering on astonished to see that my college is toward the front on this issue. Surely there are others out there whose colleges are also getting proactive with security measures….?

                        Nina

                        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lewine
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                        Nina, your ideas and experiences on this issue offer significant improvements on what is now done at most of our colleges...perhaps you might offer a roundtable discussion of this timely problem at our next SACC meeting and I would certainly like to join you in this sorely needed effort. It is important and the pressures on our students are not going to go away soon, so it is timely.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Nina Brown
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:29 PM
                        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mark Lewine
                        certainly...Community College Week for issues published in journalistic form...Community College Review, for more of a scholarly format...then our own Teaching
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 13, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          certainly...Community College Week for issues published in journalistic form...Community College Review, for more of a scholarly format...then our own Teaching Anthropology/SACC NOTES, Lloyd Miller editor, is always a good choice...
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Nina Brown
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 1:57 PM
                          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy



                          Hello,

                          I am willing to organize a roundtable if it would be useful. I am actually quite surprised bordering on astonished to see that my college is toward the front on this issue. Surely there are others out there whose colleges are also getting proactive with security measures….?

                          Nina

                          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lewine
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                          Nina, your ideas and experiences on this issue offer significant improvements on what is now done at most of our colleges...perhaps you might offer a roundtable discussion of this timely problem at our next SACC meeting and I would certainly like to join you in this sorely needed effort. It is important and the pressures on our students are not going to go away soon, so it is timely.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Nina Brown
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:29 PM
                          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Re: Tucson tragedy

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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