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RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

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  • Lewine, Mark
    I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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      I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint technology…still no word…also need to have user-friendly tutorials that students would have to ‘pass’ before registering for e-classes… these two areas. Identification for at least exams and tutorials on how to use the elearning system are the two most asked for items.



      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nikki Ives
      Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:25 AM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





      We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
      ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
      is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
      claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

      I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
      beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

      I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
      for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
      students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
      classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
      if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
      don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

      How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
      they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
      first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
      but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

      Nikki

      ________________________________
      From: "dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> " <dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> >
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

      We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
      spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
      with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
      for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
      issues! -- Dianne

      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
      Of Bob Muckle
      Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

      Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
      supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
      students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
      on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

      Bob

      >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
      <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
      Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
      My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
      guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
      are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
      obvious.

      Deb

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    • Deborah Shepherd
      Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/ What is really
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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        Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus.

        http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

        What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once they get one.

        ________________________________
        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle [bmuckle@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



        Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

        Bob

        >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
        Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

        Deb

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mep1mep
        This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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          This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the
          blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
          seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work.  And we try like
          hell to trace it down.  How about if you don't write the papers for them,
          doofus?

          That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
          that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
          kids.  I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
          assume vice/versa).  Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
          cheating themselves.  Sad.  I wish there were some solution.
          ________________________________
          From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
          To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

          Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
          campus.

          http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

          What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
          had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
          they get one.

          ________________________________
          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
          [bmuckle@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



          Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
          written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
          recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
          behalf as well.

          Bob

          >>> Deborah Shepherd
          >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
          >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
          Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
          school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
          defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
          with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

          Deb

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
          Links






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Andrew Petto
          Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do: 1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to the course web site. Until
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
            1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
            the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
            assignments are not available to them.
            2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
            https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
            and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
            3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
            this is the second key to the dropboxes.

            I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
            However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
            there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
            allowed; and so on"

            As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
            assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
            dry.

            Enjoy.

            Anj

            PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
            on close paraphrasing.




            On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
            >
            > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
            > of the
            > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
            > wonder how
            > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
            > we try like
            > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
            > doofus?
            >
            > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
            > told me
            > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
            > their
            > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
            > (and I
            > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
            > will be
            > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
            > ________________________________
            > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
            > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
            > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
            > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
            > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
            > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
            >
            > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
            > link around
            > campus.
            >
            > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
            >
            > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
            > to graduate
            > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
            > job once
            > they get one.
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
            > Of Bob Muckle
            > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
            > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
            >
            > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
            > supposedly
            > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
            > living? I
            > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
            > student's
            > behalf as well.
            >
            > Bob
            >
            > >>> Deborah Shepherd
            > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
            > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
            >
            > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
            > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
            > days. My
            > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
            > guidelines for
            > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
            > to deal
            > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
            >
            > Deb
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
            > Groups
            > Links
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >

            --

            -----------------------------
            Andrew J Petto, PhD
            Senior Lecturer
            Department of Biological Sciences
            University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
            PO Box 413
            Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
            CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
            Telephone: 414-229-6784
            FAX: 414-229-3926
            https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

            *************
            Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
            https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
            *************



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • mep1mep
            I use that site as well.  I haven t gone so far as to require the certificate but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 16, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I use that site as well.  I haven't gone so far as to require the certificate
              but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
              fail them for the full course--not just an assignment.

              Pam



              ________________________________
              From: Andrew Petto <ajpetto@...>
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 9:46:12 PM
              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

               
              Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
              1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
              the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
              assignments are not available to them.
              2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
              https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
              and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
              3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
              this is the second key to the dropboxes.

              I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
              However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
              there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
              allowed; and so on"

              As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
              assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
              dry.

              Enjoy.

              Anj

              PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
              on close paraphrasing.

              On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
              >
              > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
              > of the
              > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
              > wonder how
              > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
              > we try like
              > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
              > doofus?
              >
              > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
              > told me
              > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
              > their
              > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
              > (and I
              > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
              > will be
              > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
              > ________________________________
              > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
              > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
              > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
              > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
              > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
              >
              > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
              > link around
              > campus.
              >
              > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
              >
              > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
              > to graduate
              > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
              > job once
              > they get one.
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
              > Of Bob Muckle
              > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
              > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
              > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
              >
              > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
              > supposedly
              > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
              > living? I
              > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
              > student's
              > behalf as well.
              >
              > Bob
              >
              > >>> Deborah Shepherd
              > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
              ><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
              >>
              >
              >
              > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
              > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
              > days. My
              > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
              > guidelines for
              > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
              > to deal
              > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
              >
              > Deb
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
              > Groups
              > Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              --

              -----------------------------
              Andrew J Petto, PhD
              Senior Lecturer
              Department of Biological Sciences
              University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
              PO Box 413
              Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
              CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
              Telephone: 414-229-6784
              FAX: 414-229-3926
              https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

              *************
              Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
              https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
              *************

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lloyd Miller
              Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read. One was, Wow, this guy s a
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 17, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read.

                One was, "Wow, this guy's a genious!" Then: "Assuming that he's being truthful, he's working way too hard for what he earns." Then: "If he's this clever a con artist, how do we know that his entire essay isn't simply a contrivance?" (Again, assuming truthfulness), he has certainly rationalized every aspect of his work life (and if this is true, he can have no other life but his work). The layers of cynicism he displays are beyond my experience or imagination. Again, if true, he and those like him must get a real rush (as he says) from these accomplishments. Imagine being able to con the entire academic establishment for years without once getting caught!

                One thing crossed my mind: With all the government money we waste, why not advertise to these shadow scholars that the gov't will pay them their annual salaries (rounded up to the nearest $10,000 figure�$70,000 to this dude�comparatively a pittance) if they will quit the business? Do you think this guy would?

                And finally, if his most frequent customers are the education folks (certainly believable), how will we ever improve the K-12 system, our last, best hope?

                Lloyd


                On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, mep1mep wrote:

                > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we wonder how
                > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And we try like
                > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                > doofus?
                >
                > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                > ________________________________
                > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                >
                > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                > campus.
                >
                > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                >
                > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                > they get one.
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                > [bmuckle@...]
                > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                >
                > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                > behalf as well.
                >
                > Bob
                >
                > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                > >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                >
                > Deb
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                > Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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