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RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

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  • Philip Stein
    There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They re very hard to catch. ... From: Bob Muckle
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
      There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They're very hard to catch.

      --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...> wrote:


      From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
      To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:03 AM


       



      Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

      Bob

      >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
      Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

      Deb

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lewine, Mark
      I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
        I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint technology…still no word…also need to have user-friendly tutorials that students would have to ‘pass’ before registering for e-classes… these two areas. Identification for at least exams and tutorials on how to use the elearning system are the two most asked for items.



        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nikki Ives
        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:25 AM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





        We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
        ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
        is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
        claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

        I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
        beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

        I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
        for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
        students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
        classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
        if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
        don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

        How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
        they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
        first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
        but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

        Nikki

        ________________________________
        From: "dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> " <dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> >
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

        We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
        spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
        with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
        for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
        issues! -- Dianne

        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
        Of Bob Muckle
        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

        Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
        supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
        students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
        on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

        Bob

        >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
        <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
        Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
        My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
        guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
        are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
        obvious.

        Deb

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      • Deborah Shepherd
        Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/ What is really
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
          Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus.

          http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

          What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once they get one.

          ________________________________
          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle [bmuckle@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



          Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

          Bob

          >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
          Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

          Deb

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mep1mep
          This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
            This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the
            blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
            seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work.  And we try like
            hell to trace it down.  How about if you don't write the papers for them,
            doofus?

            That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
            that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
            kids.  I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
            assume vice/versa).  Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
            cheating themselves.  Sad.  I wish there were some solution.
            ________________________________
            From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
            To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

            Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
            campus.

            http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

            What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
            had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
            they get one.

            ________________________________
            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
            [bmuckle@...]
            Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



            Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
            written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
            recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
            behalf as well.

            Bob

            >>> Deborah Shepherd
            >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
            >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
            Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
            school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
            defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
            with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

            Deb

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
            Links






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew Petto
            Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do: 1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to the course web site. Until
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
              Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
              1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
              the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
              assignments are not available to them.
              2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
              https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
              and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
              3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
              this is the second key to the dropboxes.

              I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
              However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
              there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
              allowed; and so on"

              As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
              assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
              dry.

              Enjoy.

              Anj

              PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
              on close paraphrasing.




              On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
              >
              > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
              > of the
              > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
              > wonder how
              > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
              > we try like
              > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
              > doofus?
              >
              > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
              > told me
              > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
              > their
              > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
              > (and I
              > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
              > will be
              > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
              > ________________________________
              > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
              > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
              > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
              > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
              > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
              >
              > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
              > link around
              > campus.
              >
              > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
              >
              > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
              > to graduate
              > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
              > job once
              > they get one.
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
              > Of Bob Muckle
              > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
              > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
              > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
              >
              > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
              > supposedly
              > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
              > living? I
              > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
              > student's
              > behalf as well.
              >
              > Bob
              >
              > >>> Deborah Shepherd
              > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
              > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
              >
              > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
              > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
              > days. My
              > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
              > guidelines for
              > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
              > to deal
              > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
              >
              > Deb
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
              > Groups
              > Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              --

              -----------------------------
              Andrew J Petto, PhD
              Senior Lecturer
              Department of Biological Sciences
              University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
              PO Box 413
              Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
              CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
              Telephone: 414-229-6784
              FAX: 414-229-3926
              https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

              *************
              Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
              https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
              *************



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mep1mep
              I use that site as well.  I haven t gone so far as to require the certificate but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 16, 2010
                I use that site as well.  I haven't gone so far as to require the certificate
                but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                fail them for the full course--not just an assignment.

                Pam



                ________________________________
                From: Andrew Petto <ajpetto@...>
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 9:46:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                 
                Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                assignments are not available to them.
                2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                allowed; and so on"

                As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                dry.

                Enjoy.

                Anj

                PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                on close paraphrasing.

                On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                >
                > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                > of the
                > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                > wonder how
                > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                > we try like
                > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                > doofus?
                >
                > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                > told me
                > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                > their
                > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                > (and I
                > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                > will be
                > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                > ________________________________
                > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                >
                > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                > link around
                > campus.
                >
                > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                >
                > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                > to graduate
                > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                > job once
                > they get one.
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                > Of Bob Muckle
                > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                >
                > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                > supposedly
                > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                > living? I
                > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                > student's
                > behalf as well.
                >
                > Bob
                >
                > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                ><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                >>
                >
                >
                > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                > days. My
                > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                > guidelines for
                > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                > to deal
                > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                >
                > Deb
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                > Groups
                > Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >

                --

                -----------------------------
                Andrew J Petto, PhD
                Senior Lecturer
                Department of Biological Sciences
                University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                PO Box 413
                Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                Telephone: 414-229-6784
                FAX: 414-229-3926
                https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                *************
                Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
                https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
                *************

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lloyd Miller
                Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read. One was, Wow, this guy s a
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 17, 2010
                  Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read.

                  One was, "Wow, this guy's a genious!" Then: "Assuming that he's being truthful, he's working way too hard for what he earns." Then: "If he's this clever a con artist, how do we know that his entire essay isn't simply a contrivance?" (Again, assuming truthfulness), he has certainly rationalized every aspect of his work life (and if this is true, he can have no other life but his work). The layers of cynicism he displays are beyond my experience or imagination. Again, if true, he and those like him must get a real rush (as he says) from these accomplishments. Imagine being able to con the entire academic establishment for years without once getting caught!

                  One thing crossed my mind: With all the government money we waste, why not advertise to these shadow scholars that the gov't will pay them their annual salaries (rounded up to the nearest $10,000 figure�$70,000 to this dude�comparatively a pittance) if they will quit the business? Do you think this guy would?

                  And finally, if his most frequent customers are the education folks (certainly believable), how will we ever improve the K-12 system, our last, best hope?

                  Lloyd


                  On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, mep1mep wrote:

                  > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                  > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we wonder how
                  > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And we try like
                  > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                  > doofus?
                  >
                  > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                  > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                  > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                  > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                  > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                  > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                  >
                  > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                  > campus.
                  >
                  > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                  >
                  > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                  > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                  > they get one.
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                  > [bmuckle@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                  > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                  >
                  > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                  > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                  > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                  > behalf as well.
                  >
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                  > >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                  > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                  > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                  > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                  > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                  > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                  >
                  > Deb
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                  > Links
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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