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Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

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  • Bob Muckle
    Starting a few weeks ago, our class lists now come with a photo of the student (presumably the same one taken for their student card). Bob ... We are looking
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
      Starting a few weeks ago, our class lists now come with a photo of the student (presumably the same one taken for their student card).

      Bob

      >>> Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...> 11/15/2010 8:25 AM >>>
      We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
      ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
      is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
      claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?


      I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
      beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.


      I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
      for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
      students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
      classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
      if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
      don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.


      How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
      they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
      first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
      but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

      Nikki







      ________________________________
      From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating


      We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
      spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
      with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
      for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
      issues! -- Dianne

      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Bob Muckle
      Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

      Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
      supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
      students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
      on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

      Bob

      >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
      <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
      Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
      My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
      guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
      are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
      obvious.

      Deb

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
      intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Philip Stein
      I m retired, but teaching an online and an in-person class. This Fall I decided to check IDs in my in-person class. During our August department meeting
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
        I'm retired, but teaching an online and an in-person class. This Fall I decided to check IDs in my in-person class. During our August department meeting someone asked me how I know that the student taking an online class is really the student enrolled. I asked how they knew the student sitting in class is the student enrolled. So I decided to check IDs.
         
        I had all students fill out a simple form I made up. This way I got a signature to keep on file. Instead of calling roll, they came up to give me their form and show me a picture ID. (There were 50 in the class.) It worked fine. I did not catch anyone, but I assume that anyone with something to hide would have left. I also have them sign their exams that I can compare withtheir signature "on file." I really don't do this routinely, but the act of going through this process sends a message to the students that I mean business. I lot of it is pure theatre. I go through a routine with exams with numbering and signatures and I walk around during the exam like I mean business. I never catch anyone. I don't know if it's because I don't see it (a distinct possibility) or they think that I really do watch them like a hawk. It sets a serious tone, which is essential. Then I can relax. 

        --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...> wrote:


        From: Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...>
        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:25 AM


         



        We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
        ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
        is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
        claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

        I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
        beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

        I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
        for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
        students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
        classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
        if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
        don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

        How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
        they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
        first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
        but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

        Nikki

        ________________________________
        From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

        We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
        spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
        with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
        for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
        issues! -- Dianne

        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Bob Muckle
        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

        Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
        supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
        students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
        on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

        Bob

        >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
        <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
        Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
        My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
        guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
        are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
        obvious.

        Deb

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
        and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
        review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
        intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
        copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
        mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Philip Stein
        There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They re very hard to catch. ... From: Bob Muckle
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
          There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They're very hard to catch.

          --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...> wrote:


          From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
          To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:03 AM


           



          Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

          Bob

          >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
          Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

          Deb

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lewine, Mark
          I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
            I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint technology…still no word…also need to have user-friendly tutorials that students would have to ‘pass’ before registering for e-classes… these two areas. Identification for at least exams and tutorials on how to use the elearning system are the two most asked for items.



            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nikki Ives
            Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:25 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





            We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
            ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
            is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
            claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

            I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
            beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

            I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
            for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
            students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
            classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
            if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
            don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

            How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
            they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
            first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
            but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

            Nikki

            ________________________________
            From: "dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> " <dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> >
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

            We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
            spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
            with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
            for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
            issues! -- Dianne

            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
            Of Bob Muckle
            Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

            Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
            supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
            students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
            on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

            Bob

            >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
            <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
            Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
            My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
            guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
            are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
            obvious.

            Deb

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
            and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
            review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
            intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
            copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
            mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Deborah Shepherd
            Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/ What is really
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
              Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus.

              http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

              What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once they get one.

              ________________________________
              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle [bmuckle@...]
              Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



              Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

              Bob

              >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
              Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

              Deb

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mep1mep
              This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
                seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work.  And we try like
                hell to trace it down.  How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                doofus?

                That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                kids.  I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                assume vice/versa).  Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                cheating themselves.  Sad.  I wish there were some solution.
                ________________________________
                From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                campus.

                http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

                What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                they get one.

                ________________________________
                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                [bmuckle@...]
                Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



                Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                behalf as well.

                Bob

                >>> Deborah Shepherd
                >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

                Deb

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                Links






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew Petto
                Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do: 1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to the course web site. Until
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                  Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                  1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                  the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                  assignments are not available to them.
                  2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                  https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                  and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                  3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                  this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                  I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                  However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                  there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                  allowed; and so on"

                  As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                  assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                  dry.

                  Enjoy.

                  Anj

                  PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                  on close paraphrasing.




                  On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                  >
                  > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                  > of the
                  > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                  > wonder how
                  > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                  > we try like
                  > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                  > doofus?
                  >
                  > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                  > told me
                  > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                  > their
                  > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                  > (and I
                  > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                  > will be
                  > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                  > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                  > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                  > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                  >
                  > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                  > link around
                  > campus.
                  >
                  > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                  >
                  > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                  > to graduate
                  > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                  > job once
                  > they get one.
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                  > Of Bob Muckle
                  > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                  > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                  > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                  >
                  > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                  > supposedly
                  > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                  > living? I
                  > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                  > student's
                  > behalf as well.
                  >
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                  > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                  > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                  >
                  > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                  > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                  > days. My
                  > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                  > guidelines for
                  > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                  > to deal
                  > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                  >
                  > Deb
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                  > Groups
                  > Links
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  --

                  -----------------------------
                  Andrew J Petto, PhD
                  Senior Lecturer
                  Department of Biological Sciences
                  University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                  PO Box 413
                  Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                  CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                  Telephone: 414-229-6784
                  FAX: 414-229-3926
                  https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                  *************
                  Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
                  https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
                  *************



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mep1mep
                  I use that site as well.  I haven t gone so far as to require the certificate but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 16, 2010
                    I use that site as well.  I haven't gone so far as to require the certificate
                    but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                    fail them for the full course--not just an assignment.

                    Pam



                    ________________________________
                    From: Andrew Petto <ajpetto@...>
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 9:46:12 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                     
                    Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                    1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                    the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                    assignments are not available to them.
                    2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                    https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                    and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                    3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                    this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                    I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                    However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                    there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                    allowed; and so on"

                    As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                    assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                    dry.

                    Enjoy.

                    Anj

                    PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                    on close paraphrasing.

                    On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                    >
                    > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                    > of the
                    > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                    > wonder how
                    > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                    > we try like
                    > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                    > doofus?
                    >
                    > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                    > told me
                    > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                    > their
                    > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                    > (and I
                    > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                    > will be
                    > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                    > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                    > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                    > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                    > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                    >
                    > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                    > link around
                    > campus.
                    >
                    > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                    >
                    > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                    > to graduate
                    > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                    > job once
                    > they get one.
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                    > Of Bob Muckle
                    > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                    > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                    > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                    >
                    > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                    > supposedly
                    > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                    > living? I
                    > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                    > student's
                    > behalf as well.
                    >
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                    > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                    ><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                    > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                    > days. My
                    > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                    > guidelines for
                    > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                    > to deal
                    > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                    >
                    > Deb
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                    > Groups
                    > Links
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >

                    --

                    -----------------------------
                    Andrew J Petto, PhD
                    Senior Lecturer
                    Department of Biological Sciences
                    University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                    PO Box 413
                    Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                    CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                    Telephone: 414-229-6784
                    FAX: 414-229-3926
                    https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lloyd Miller
                    Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read. One was, Wow, this guy s a
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 17, 2010
                      Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read.

                      One was, "Wow, this guy's a genious!" Then: "Assuming that he's being truthful, he's working way too hard for what he earns." Then: "If he's this clever a con artist, how do we know that his entire essay isn't simply a contrivance?" (Again, assuming truthfulness), he has certainly rationalized every aspect of his work life (and if this is true, he can have no other life but his work). The layers of cynicism he displays are beyond my experience or imagination. Again, if true, he and those like him must get a real rush (as he says) from these accomplishments. Imagine being able to con the entire academic establishment for years without once getting caught!

                      One thing crossed my mind: With all the government money we waste, why not advertise to these shadow scholars that the gov't will pay them their annual salaries (rounded up to the nearest $10,000 figure�$70,000 to this dude�comparatively a pittance) if they will quit the business? Do you think this guy would?

                      And finally, if his most frequent customers are the education folks (certainly believable), how will we ever improve the K-12 system, our last, best hope?

                      Lloyd


                      On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, mep1mep wrote:

                      > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                      > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we wonder how
                      > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And we try like
                      > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                      > doofus?
                      >
                      > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                      > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                      > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                      > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                      > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                      > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                      >
                      > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                      > campus.
                      >
                      > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                      >
                      > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                      > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                      > they get one.
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                      > [bmuckle@...]
                      > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                      > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                      >
                      > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                      > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                      > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                      > behalf as well.
                      >
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                      > >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                      > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                      > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                      > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                      > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                      > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                      >
                      > Deb
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                      > Links
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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