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RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

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  • dianne.chidester@gvltec.edu
    We ve had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem with online
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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      We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
      spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
      with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
      for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
      issues! -- Dianne



      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Bob Muckle
      Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





      Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
      supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
      students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
      on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

      Bob

      >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
      <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
      Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
      My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
      guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
      are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
      obvious.

      Deb

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nikki Ives
      We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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        We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
        ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
        is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
        claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?


        I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
        beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.


        I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
        for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
        students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
        classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
        if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
        don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.


        How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
        they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
        first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
        but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

        Nikki







        ________________________________
        From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating


        We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
        spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
        with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
        for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
        issues! -- Dianne

        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Bob Muckle
        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

        Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
        supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
        students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
        on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

        Bob

        >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
        <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
        Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
        My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
        guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
        are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
        obvious.

        Deb

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
        and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
        review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
        intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
        copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
        mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bob Muckle
        Starting a few weeks ago, our class lists now come with a photo of the student (presumably the same one taken for their student card). Bob ... We are looking
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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          Starting a few weeks ago, our class lists now come with a photo of the student (presumably the same one taken for their student card).

          Bob

          >>> Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...> 11/15/2010 8:25 AM >>>
          We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
          ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
          is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
          claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?


          I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
          beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.


          I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
          for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
          students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
          classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
          if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
          don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.


          How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
          they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
          first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
          but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

          Nikki







          ________________________________
          From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating


          We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
          spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
          with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
          for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
          issues! -- Dianne

          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Bob Muckle
          Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

          Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
          supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
          students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
          on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

          Bob

          >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
          <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
          Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
          My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
          guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
          are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
          obvious.

          Deb

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
          and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
          review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
          intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
          copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
          mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Philip Stein
          I m retired, but teaching an online and an in-person class. This Fall I decided to check IDs in my in-person class. During our August department meeting
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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            I'm retired, but teaching an online and an in-person class. This Fall I decided to check IDs in my in-person class. During our August department meeting someone asked me how I know that the student taking an online class is really the student enrolled. I asked how they knew the student sitting in class is the student enrolled. So I decided to check IDs.
             
            I had all students fill out a simple form I made up. This way I got a signature to keep on file. Instead of calling roll, they came up to give me their form and show me a picture ID. (There were 50 in the class.) It worked fine. I did not catch anyone, but I assume that anyone with something to hide would have left. I also have them sign their exams that I can compare withtheir signature "on file." I really don't do this routinely, but the act of going through this process sends a message to the students that I mean business. I lot of it is pure theatre. I go through a routine with exams with numbering and signatures and I walk around during the exam like I mean business. I never catch anyone. I don't know if it's because I don't see it (a distinct possibility) or they think that I really do watch them like a hawk. It sets a serious tone, which is essential. Then I can relax. 

            --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...> wrote:


            From: Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...>
            Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:25 AM


             



            We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
            ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
            is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
            claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

            I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
            beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

            I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
            for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
            students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
            classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
            if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
            don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

            How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
            they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
            first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
            but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

            Nikki

            ________________________________
            From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

            We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
            spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
            with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
            for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
            issues! -- Dianne

            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Bob Muckle
            Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

            Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
            supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
            students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
            on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

            Bob

            >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
            <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
            Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
            My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
            guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
            are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
            obvious.

            Deb

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
            and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
            review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
            intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
            copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
            mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Philip Stein
            There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They re very hard to catch. ... From: Bob Muckle
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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              There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They're very hard to catch.

              --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...> wrote:


              From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
              To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:03 AM


               



              Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

              Bob

              >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
              Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

              Deb

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lewine, Mark
              I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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                I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint technology…still no word…also need to have user-friendly tutorials that students would have to ‘pass’ before registering for e-classes… these two areas. Identification for at least exams and tutorials on how to use the elearning system are the two most asked for items.



                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nikki Ives
                Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:25 AM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





                We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
                ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
                is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
                claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

                I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
                beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

                I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
                for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
                students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
                classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
                if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
                don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

                How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
                they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
                first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
                but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

                Nikki

                ________________________________
                From: "dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> " <dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> >
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
                spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
                with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
                for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
                issues! -- Dianne

                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
                Of Bob Muckle
                Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
                students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
                on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                Bob

                >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
                <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
                My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
                are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
                obvious.

                Deb

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
                and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
                review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
                intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
                copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
                mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Deborah Shepherd
                Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/ What is really
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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                  Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus.

                  http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

                  What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once they get one.

                  ________________________________
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle [bmuckle@...]
                  Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



                  Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                  Bob

                  >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                  Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

                  Deb

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mep1mep
                  This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                    blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
                    seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work.  And we try like
                    hell to trace it down.  How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                    doofus?

                    That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                    that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                    kids.  I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                    assume vice/versa).  Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                    cheating themselves.  Sad.  I wish there were some solution.
                    ________________________________
                    From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                    To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                    Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                    campus.

                    http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

                    What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                    had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                    they get one.

                    ________________________________
                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                    [bmuckle@...]
                    Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



                    Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                    written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                    recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                    behalf as well.

                    Bob

                    >>> Deborah Shepherd
                    >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                    >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                    Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                    school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                    defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                    with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

                    Deb

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                    Links






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Andrew Petto
                    Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do: 1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to the course web site. Until
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
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                      Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                      1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                      the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                      assignments are not available to them.
                      2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                      https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                      and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                      3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                      this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                      I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                      However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                      there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                      allowed; and so on"

                      As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                      assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                      dry.

                      Enjoy.

                      Anj

                      PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                      on close paraphrasing.




                      On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                      >
                      > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                      > of the
                      > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                      > wonder how
                      > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                      > we try like
                      > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                      > doofus?
                      >
                      > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                      > told me
                      > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                      > their
                      > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                      > (and I
                      > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                      > will be
                      > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                      > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                      > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                      > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                      >
                      > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                      > link around
                      > campus.
                      >
                      > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                      >
                      > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                      > to graduate
                      > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                      > job once
                      > they get one.
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                      > Of Bob Muckle
                      > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                      > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                      > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                      >
                      > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                      > supposedly
                      > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                      > living? I
                      > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                      > student's
                      > behalf as well.
                      >
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                      > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                      > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                      >
                      > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                      > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                      > days. My
                      > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                      > guidelines for
                      > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                      > to deal
                      > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                      >
                      > Deb
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                      > Groups
                      > Links
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >

                      --

                      -----------------------------
                      Andrew J Petto, PhD
                      Senior Lecturer
                      Department of Biological Sciences
                      University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                      PO Box 413
                      Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                      CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                      Telephone: 414-229-6784
                      FAX: 414-229-3926
                      https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                      *************
                      Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
                      https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
                      *************



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • mep1mep
                      I use that site as well.  I haven t gone so far as to require the certificate but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 16, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I use that site as well.  I haven't gone so far as to require the certificate
                        but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                        fail them for the full course--not just an assignment.

                        Pam



                        ________________________________
                        From: Andrew Petto <ajpetto@...>
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 9:46:12 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                         
                        Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                        1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                        the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                        assignments are not available to them.
                        2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                        https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                        and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                        3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                        this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                        I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                        However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                        there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                        allowed; and so on"

                        As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                        assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                        dry.

                        Enjoy.

                        Anj

                        PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                        on close paraphrasing.

                        On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                        >
                        > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                        > of the
                        > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                        > wonder how
                        > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                        > we try like
                        > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                        > doofus?
                        >
                        > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                        > told me
                        > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                        > their
                        > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                        > (and I
                        > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                        > will be
                        > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                        > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                        > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                        > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                        > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                        >
                        > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                        > link around
                        > campus.
                        >
                        > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                        >
                        > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                        > to graduate
                        > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                        > job once
                        > they get one.
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                        > Of Bob Muckle
                        > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                        > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                        > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                        >
                        > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                        > supposedly
                        > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                        > living? I
                        > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                        > student's
                        > behalf as well.
                        >
                        > Bob
                        >
                        > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                        > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                        ><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                        > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                        > days. My
                        > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                        > guidelines for
                        > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                        > to deal
                        > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                        >
                        > Deb
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                        > Groups
                        > Links
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >

                        --

                        -----------------------------
                        Andrew J Petto, PhD
                        Senior Lecturer
                        Department of Biological Sciences
                        University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                        PO Box 413
                        Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                        CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                        Telephone: 414-229-6784
                        FAX: 414-229-3926
                        https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                        *************
                        Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
                        https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
                        *************

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Lloyd Miller
                        Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read. One was, Wow, this guy s a
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 17, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read.

                          One was, "Wow, this guy's a genious!" Then: "Assuming that he's being truthful, he's working way too hard for what he earns." Then: "If he's this clever a con artist, how do we know that his entire essay isn't simply a contrivance?" (Again, assuming truthfulness), he has certainly rationalized every aspect of his work life (and if this is true, he can have no other life but his work). The layers of cynicism he displays are beyond my experience or imagination. Again, if true, he and those like him must get a real rush (as he says) from these accomplishments. Imagine being able to con the entire academic establishment for years without once getting caught!

                          One thing crossed my mind: With all the government money we waste, why not advertise to these shadow scholars that the gov't will pay them their annual salaries (rounded up to the nearest $10,000 figure�$70,000 to this dude�comparatively a pittance) if they will quit the business? Do you think this guy would?

                          And finally, if his most frequent customers are the education folks (certainly believable), how will we ever improve the K-12 system, our last, best hope?

                          Lloyd


                          On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, mep1mep wrote:

                          > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                          > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we wonder how
                          > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And we try like
                          > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                          > doofus?
                          >
                          > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                          > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                          > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                          > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                          > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                          > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                          >
                          > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                          > campus.
                          >
                          > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                          >
                          > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                          > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                          > they get one.
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                          > [bmuckle@...]
                          > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                          > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                          >
                          > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                          > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                          > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                          > behalf as well.
                          >
                          > Bob
                          >
                          > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                          > >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                          > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                          > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                          > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                          > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                          > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                          >
                          > Deb
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                          > Links
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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