Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

Expand Messages
  • Deborah Shepherd
    Not much chance of improving things! Students learn this attitude and behavior from the culture. I just heard in the radio that Bush 43 has now been accused of
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 12, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Not much chance of improving things! Students learn this attitude and behavior from the culture. I just heard in the radio that Bush 43 has now been accused of putting entire passages from other books into his new memoir. Maybe it was just his ghostwriter's fault.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Miller
      Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:23 AM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

      Yes, I think you nailed it, Deborah. It's a good insight into the "entitlement" mentality that (so I've heard) pervades much student thinking nowadays. But what are the odds of improving things?

      A canon of enculturation theory is that much youth behavior reflects adult behavior; the kids copy the grownups. When we discussed this in class, I typically asked students this series of questions: "Is a crime something that is against the law?" (Unanimous answer: "yes.") "Is speeding against the law?" ("yes.") "Then is speeding a crime?" (A moment's hesitation, then "no."). In the ensuing discussion, students insisted that everyone speeds, and certainly not everyone is a criminal, therefore speeding was more like a game of change. In fact, most people who speed don't get caught most of the time. Those who do, well, they pay a fine, but of course they live to speed another day.

      Like speeding, "cheating" is viewed as neither heinous nor serious. As Phil pointed out (and I had no idea that this was the case, Phil), California prohibits any penalty more severe than flunking a student for the specific activity in which he or she cheated. So it's no worse that sleeping in and blowing off an exam. You can always make it up. (To this "adult" behavior we could also ad all the "news of the day"-corporate CEOs, defense contractors, Wall St. brokers, bankers-etc.)

      My heart went out to the USF business professor; I've been there. Sadly, however, the student comments on the video suggest that a four-hour course in ethics will not likely change things around.

      Lloyd


      On Nov 11, 2010, at 10:16 PM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

      > Doesn't their argument all boil down to, "If the professor uses standard questions that we can get our hands on, then it isn't our fault"?
      >
      > ________________________________________
      > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fulara, Elise [fulara@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:12 PM
      > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
      >
      > Did you see the "response video" from the accused students?
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJG7aCQtI8E&feature=related
      >
      > ___
      >
      > - Elise Fulara
      >
      > ________________________________________
      > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Deborah Shepherd [deborah.shepherd@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:53 PM
      > To: sacc-l@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [SACC-L] Cheating
      >
      > One of our faculty sent this information around. The first video is only 3:10 minutes.
      > ____________________________
      >
      > http://news.yahoo.com/video/business-15749628/students-busted-for-cheating-22954742
      >
      > Listen to the second interviewed student. Here's the full video of the professor addressing his class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbzJTTDO9f4
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Deborah Shepherd
      Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

        Deb


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bob Muckle
        Did anyone see the article in a recent Chronicle of Higher Ed , supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

          Bob

          >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
          Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

          Deb


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dianne.chidester@gvltec.edu
          We ve had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem with online
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
            spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
            with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
            for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
            issues! -- Dianne



            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Bob Muckle
            Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





            Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
            supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
            students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
            on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

            Bob

            >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
            <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
            Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
            My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
            guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
            are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
            obvious.

            Deb

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nikki Ives
            We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
              ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
              is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
              claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?


              I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
              beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.


              I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
              for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
              students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
              classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
              if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
              don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.


              How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
              they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
              first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
              but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

              Nikki







              ________________________________
              From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating


              We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
              spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
              with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
              for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
              issues! -- Dianne

              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Bob Muckle
              Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

              Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
              supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
              students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
              on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

              Bob

              >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
              <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
              Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
              My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
              guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
              are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
              obvious.

              Deb

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
              and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
              review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
              intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
              copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
              mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bob Muckle
              Starting a few weeks ago, our class lists now come with a photo of the student (presumably the same one taken for their student card). Bob ... We are looking
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Starting a few weeks ago, our class lists now come with a photo of the student (presumably the same one taken for their student card).

                Bob

                >>> Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...> 11/15/2010 8:25 AM >>>
                We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
                ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
                is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
                claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?


                I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
                beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.


                I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
                for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
                students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
                classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
                if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
                don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.


                How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
                they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
                first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
                but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

                Nikki







                ________________________________
                From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating


                We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
                spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
                with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
                for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
                issues! -- Dianne

                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Bob Muckle
                Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
                students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
                on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                Bob

                >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
                My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
                are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
                obvious.

                Deb

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
                and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
                review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
                intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
                copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
                mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Philip Stein
                I m retired, but teaching an online and an in-person class. This Fall I decided to check IDs in my in-person class. During our August department meeting
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'm retired, but teaching an online and an in-person class. This Fall I decided to check IDs in my in-person class. During our August department meeting someone asked me how I know that the student taking an online class is really the student enrolled. I asked how they knew the student sitting in class is the student enrolled. So I decided to check IDs.
                   
                  I had all students fill out a simple form I made up. This way I got a signature to keep on file. Instead of calling roll, they came up to give me their form and show me a picture ID. (There were 50 in the class.) It worked fine. I did not catch anyone, but I assume that anyone with something to hide would have left. I also have them sign their exams that I can compare withtheir signature "on file." I really don't do this routinely, but the act of going through this process sends a message to the students that I mean business. I lot of it is pure theatre. I go through a routine with exams with numbering and signatures and I walk around during the exam like I mean business. I never catch anyone. I don't know if it's because I don't see it (a distinct possibility) or they think that I really do watch them like a hawk. It sets a serious tone, which is essential. Then I can relax. 

                  --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...> wrote:


                  From: Nikki Ives <ikkinh@...>
                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:25 AM


                   



                  We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
                  ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
                  is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
                  claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

                  I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
                  beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

                  I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
                  for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
                  students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
                  classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
                  if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
                  don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

                  How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
                  they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
                  first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
                  but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

                  Nikki

                  ________________________________
                  From: "dianne.chidester@..." <dianne.chidester@...>
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                  We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
                  spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
                  with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
                  for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
                  issues! -- Dianne

                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Bob Muckle
                  Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                  Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                  supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
                  students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
                  on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                  Bob

                  >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                  <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                  Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
                  My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                  guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
                  are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
                  obvious.

                  Deb

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
                  and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
                  review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
                  intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
                  copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
                  mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Philip Stein
                  There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They re very hard to catch. ... From: Bob Muckle
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    There have been many cases where people have taken in-person classes for others for a fee. They're very hard to catch.

                    --- On Mon, 11/15/10, Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...> wrote:


                    From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                    Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                    To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:03 AM


                     



                    Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                    Bob

                    >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                    Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

                    Deb

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lewine, Mark
                    I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have asked for identification technology if we plan on continuing to do elearning, and was told that we were “investigating” iris and fingerprint technology…still no word…also need to have user-friendly tutorials that students would have to ‘pass’ before registering for e-classes… these two areas. Identification for at least exams and tutorials on how to use the elearning system are the two most asked for items.



                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nikki Ives
                      Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:25 AM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating





                      We are looking at this right now at our school. The eLearing office is exploring
                      ways to verify the identity of online students. One question that has been asked
                      is - do we ask for picture ID in face-to-face classes to verify the person who
                      claims to be the person on the roster really is that person?

                      I'm curious - does anyone do this? I don't. I call out their names at the
                      beginning of the semester and if they say "here" I take their word for it.

                      I remember when I was in college some of my professors would ask for picture ID
                      for exams - but that was only in the big lecture halls with more than 100
                      students. And it was only for exams - not other assignments. We don't have
                      classes that size here. I think students have to show ID in the testing center
                      if a professor wants them to take their exams there - but in the classroom, we
                      don't have any policy or practice that verifies identity.

                      How would you know if the person sitting there is actually the student they say
                      they are or if they are someone else? If the person who calls out "here" on the
                      first day of class keeps coming back, I assume they are who they say they are -
                      but it could be someone else. *Head explode!*

                      Nikki

                      ________________________________
                      From: "dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> " <dianne.chidester@... <mailto:dianne.chidester%40gvltec.edu> >
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:09:46 AM
                      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                      We've had a case of a parent taking the on-line class for a student. In
                      spite of this, we keep being told that cheating is no more of a problem
                      with online than it is for face-to-face. I think if a parent shows up
                      for each face-to-face class for the student, there are some other
                      issues! -- Dianne

                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
                      Of Bob Muckle
                      Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:03 AM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                      Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                      supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of
                      students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken
                      on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                      Bob

                      >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
                      <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> > 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                      Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days.
                      My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                      guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights
                      are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all
                      obvious.

                      Deb

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
                      and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
                      review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
                      intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
                      copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this
                      mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Deborah Shepherd
                      Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/ What is really
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around campus.

                        http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

                        What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once they get one.

                        ________________________________
                        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle [bmuckle@...]
                        Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



                        Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's behalf as well.

                        Bob

                        >>> Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>> 11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                        Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

                        Deb

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • mep1mep
                        This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          This article really offends me.  He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                          blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators.  Of course we wonder how
                          seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work.  And we try like
                          hell to trace it down.  How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                          doofus?

                          That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                          that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                          kids.  I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                          assume vice/versa).  Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                          cheating themselves.  Sad.  I wish there were some solution.
                          ________________________________
                          From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                          To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                          Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                          campus.

                          http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

                          What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                          had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                          they get one.

                          ________________________________
                          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                          [bmuckle@...]
                          Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating



                          Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                          written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                          recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                          behalf as well.

                          Bob

                          >>> Deborah Shepherd
                          >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                          >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                          Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                          school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                          defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                          with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.

                          Deb

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          ------------------------------------

                          Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                          Links






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Andrew Petto
                          Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do: 1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to the course web site. Until
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 15, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                            1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                            the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                            assignments are not available to them.
                            2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                            https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                            and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                            3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                            this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                            I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                            However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                            there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                            allowed; and so on"

                            As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                            assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                            dry.

                            Enjoy.

                            Anj

                            PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                            on close paraphrasing.




                            On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                            >
                            > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                            > of the
                            > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                            > wonder how
                            > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                            > we try like
                            > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                            > doofus?
                            >
                            > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                            > told me
                            > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                            > their
                            > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                            > (and I
                            > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                            > will be
                            > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                            > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                            > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                            > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                            > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                            >
                            > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                            > link around
                            > campus.
                            >
                            > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                            >
                            > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                            > to graduate
                            > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                            > job once
                            > they get one.
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                            > Of Bob Muckle
                            > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                            > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                            >
                            > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                            > supposedly
                            > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                            > living? I
                            > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                            > student's
                            > behalf as well.
                            >
                            > Bob
                            >
                            > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                            > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                            > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                            >
                            > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                            > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                            > days. My
                            > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                            > guidelines for
                            > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                            > to deal
                            > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                            >
                            > Deb
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                            > Groups
                            > Links
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >

                            --

                            -----------------------------
                            Andrew J Petto, PhD
                            Senior Lecturer
                            Department of Biological Sciences
                            University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                            PO Box 413
                            Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                            CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                            Telephone: 414-229-6784
                            FAX: 414-229-3926
                            https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                            *************
                            Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
                            https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
                            *************



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • mep1mep
                            I use that site as well.  I haven t gone so far as to require the certificate but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 16, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I use that site as well.  I haven't gone so far as to require the certificate
                              but I do state that students will be held to the discussed standards.  I, also,
                              fail them for the full course--not just an assignment.

                              Pam



                              ________________________________
                              From: Andrew Petto <ajpetto@...>
                              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 9:46:12 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating

                               
                              Well, it is spitting into a hurricane, but here is what I do:
                              1. Students get a detailed document that they must sign and upload to
                              the course web site. Until it is uploaded, the drop boxes for submitting
                              assignments are not available to them.
                              2. As a part of that document, they must go to this site ...
                              https://www.indiana.edu/~tedfrick/plagiarism/
                              and complete the tutorial and then pass the quiz.
                              3. Passing the quiz issues a certificate, which they must also upload;
                              this is the second key to the dropboxes.

                              I am not so naive as to think this will prevent students from cheating.
                              However, this is a CMA action. When I discover a suspicious document,
                              there is no way that a student can claim "I didn't know this wasn't
                              allowed; and so on"

                              As of right now, we have 6 suspicious papers in the first written
                              assignment. 4 of those are definitely going down --- it is that cut and
                              dry.

                              Enjoy.

                              Anj

                              PS. I discovered when I took the quiz that I was being way too lenient
                              on close paraphrasing.

                              On 15-Nov-10 21:20, mep1mep wrote:
                              >
                              > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some
                              > of the
                              > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we
                              > wonder how
                              > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And
                              > we try like
                              > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                              > doofus?
                              >
                              > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students
                              > told me
                              > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for
                              > their
                              > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands
                              > (and I
                              > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they
                              > will be
                              > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...
                              > <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                              > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>"
                              > <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                              > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                              >
                              > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the
                              > link around
                              > campus.
                              >
                              > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                              >
                              > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services
                              > to graduate
                              > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a
                              > job once
                              > they get one.
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
                              > Of Bob Muckle
                              > [bmuckle@... <mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>]
                              > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                              > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                              >
                              > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed',
                              > supposedly
                              > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a
                              > living? I
                              > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real
                              > student's
                              > behalf as well.
                              >
                              > Bob
                              >
                              > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                              > >>><deborah.shepherd@...
                              ><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu><mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                              > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these
                              > days. My
                              > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer
                              > guidelines for
                              > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how
                              > to deal
                              > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                              >
                              > Deb
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                              > Groups
                              > Links
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >

                              --

                              -----------------------------
                              Andrew J Petto, PhD
                              Senior Lecturer
                              Department of Biological Sciences
                              University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
                              PO Box 413
                              Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
                              CapTel Line: 1-877-243-2823
                              Telephone: 414-229-6784
                              FAX: 414-229-3926
                              https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/index.htm

                              *************
                              Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
                              https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/ajpetto/www/scc2.htm
                              *************

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Lloyd Miller
                              Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read. One was, Wow, this guy s a
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 17, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Pam, I just read it. On one level I do share your outrage, but found that I was having a number of different reactions as I read.

                                One was, "Wow, this guy's a genious!" Then: "Assuming that he's being truthful, he's working way too hard for what he earns." Then: "If he's this clever a con artist, how do we know that his entire essay isn't simply a contrivance?" (Again, assuming truthfulness), he has certainly rationalized every aspect of his work life (and if this is true, he can have no other life but his work). The layers of cynicism he displays are beyond my experience or imagination. Again, if true, he and those like him must get a real rush (as he says) from these accomplishments. Imagine being able to con the entire academic establishment for years without once getting caught!

                                One thing crossed my mind: With all the government money we waste, why not advertise to these shadow scholars that the gov't will pay them their annual salaries (rounded up to the nearest $10,000 figure�$70,000 to this dude�comparatively a pittance) if they will quit the business? Do you think this guy would?

                                And finally, if his most frequent customers are the education folks (certainly believable), how will we ever improve the K-12 system, our last, best hope?

                                Lloyd


                                On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, mep1mep wrote:

                                > This article really offends me. He seems to be trying to foist some of the
                                > blame for his own heinous behavior off on educators. Of course we wonder how
                                > seemingly illiterate students can produce stellar written work. And we try like
                                > hell to trace it down. How about if you don't write the papers for them,
                                > doofus?
                                >
                                > That said, one of our counselors who has a good rapport with students told me
                                > that he commonly gets told that parents are taking online courses for their
                                > kids. I, also, know of cases when wives have taken them for husbands (and I
                                > assume vice/versa). Hate to sound old-fashioned but in the end they will be
                                > cheating themselves. Sad. I wish there were some solution.
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: Deborah Shepherd <deborah.shepherd@...>
                                > To: "SACC-L@yahoogroups.com" <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 3:49:50 PM
                                > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                                >
                                > Is this the article you mean? Someone at my school just passed the link around
                                > campus.
                                >
                                > http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
                                >
                                > What is really obvious is that students who depend on these services to graduate
                                > had better have some actual skills, or they won't be able to keep a job once
                                > they get one.
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Muckle
                                > [bmuckle@...]
                                > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 10:03 AM
                                > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] RE: Cheating
                                >
                                > Did anyone see the article in a recent 'Chronicle of Higher Ed', supposedly
                                > written by someone who writes papers on the behalf of students for a living? I
                                > recall she or he also said they have taken on-line courses on a real student's
                                > behalf as well.
                                >
                                > Bob
                                >
                                > >>> Deborah Shepherd
                                > >>><deborah.shepherd@...<mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>>
                                > >>>11/15/2010 7:50 AM >>>
                                > Cheating in test-taking and plagiarism are depressing issues these days. My
                                > school is now forming a faculty/staff committee to create firmer guidelines for
                                > defining what these are, what student and faculty rights are, and how to deal
                                > with situations. We used to think it was all obvious.
                                >
                                > Deb
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo! Groups
                                > Links
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.