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RE: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof expectations

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  • dianne.chidester@gvltec.edu
    Maybe it s the system that needs to change! So many students can t get the financial aid and health insurance they need unless they take X number of courses.
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 2, 2009
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      Maybe it's the system that needs to change! So many students can't get
      the financial aid and health insurance they need unless they take X
      number of courses. (I think this is usually 5.) This is based on the
      old idea that students are ONLY students. As the cost of college has
      gone up, many of my students have to work in order to pay to enroll in 5
      classes so they can get their financial aid. Then they find themselves
      overloaded and do poorly in classes and, therefore, lose their financial
      aid and/or health insurance. Talk about a Catch 22! In a film I use in
      my sociology classes about the high rates of farmer suicide, an expert
      on suicide says that it's much easier to change the biology of the
      individual than it is to change the economic system. Caffeine anyone?



      This thread is timely because one of my colleagues was talking about one
      of her classes. She told me that she talked to them and said,
      essentially, that it doesn't hurt her if they are not prepared. She
      will still have her job, the same pay, etc., but that it is THEY who
      will pay because of poor g.p.a.'s, losing scholarships, insurance, etc.
      She reported to me that this seemed to have quite an effect-at least for
      the time being.



      As y'all know, I was a non-traditional student and working several part
      time jobs in order to balance school and work. However, I was lucky
      because I did have insurance and didn't have to worry about that. (I
      lost that later.) I realized, though, that I could only take about 3
      classes a semester and still work and that I really had to cut down on
      living expenses. This really goes against the forces of a consumer
      economy, though.



      Cheers!

      Dianne







      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Kent Morris
      Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:13 PM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof
      expectations





      good book...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Philip Stein" <stein39@... <mailto:stein39%40att.net> >
      To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
      Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:31 AM
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof
      expectations

      Mark brings up an extemely important point. Like many of us--not all
      obviously--I came from a middle class family and went through college as
      a
      full-time student without having to work, accept for a few on-campus
      jobs
      for spending money. Students today, especially at the community college
      level, have a much more difficult time of it. I suggest that everyone
      read
      Cathy Small's book My Freshman Year (under the name Rebeka Nathan). She
      concludes that the greatest problem facing students today is time
      management, having to work 20 or more hours a week, with family
      obligations,
      etc.

      I feel very strongly that we need to be realistic about our assignments.

      (Our students simply do not have time for a lot of extra reading, for
      example.) And rather than lecture to them and add lists of expectations
      to
      our syllabi (like SLOs, I doubt if any student reads such stuff), we
      need to
      act as role models. If you have reasonable, well-thought out and
      articulated
      expectations and you are fair in your grading and dealing with students,

      most students will rise to the occasion. And those you don't--well, you
      just
      have to accept the fact that you can't with them all.

      --- On Fri, 10/30/09, Mark Lewine <mlewine@...
      <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> > wrote:

      From: Mark Lewine <mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> >
      Subject: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof expectations
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:32 PM

      Frank, I could not agree with you more...my first week in every class
      starting in my third year of teaching, (1974) I realized that I had to
      learn
      what my students knew and did not know (formative evaluation we call it
      now)...realized that their strengths were street cultural adaptations
      that
      were very powerful, often successful for daily living in the street but
      often at odds with traditional academic culture which is primarily
      centered
      on middle class culture. I realized that an anthropologist and
      sociologist
      (I was both) needed to PRODUCE AN ORIENTATION PROCESS IN THE FIRST WEEK
      OF
      CLASS AND USE IN PRACTICE WHAT WE TAUGHT because we were really a
      domestic
      settlement house for successful enculturation to American educational,
      vocational and even social mobility. Many a waitress or bar maid taught
      me
      that she knew social science concepts, fieldwork methods, just knew them
      as
      survival techniques and needed the academic vocabulary. Of course, I
      still
      work
      at an inner city campus where most students are still first members of
      their family to go to college, coming to us with lives that are hard to
      even
      imagine...it is so easy to have that university professor attitude of
      "the
      great and powerful Oz" who is the gate-keeper for academic cultural
      acceptance.. .I was happy to leave the university where so many profs
      were
      self-important gods of their field of study, doling out the crumbs to
      hustling grad students and expecting worship or at least indifferent
      boredom
      from undergrads, so that they did not have to do much with them...but I
      got
      to be at the community college from the start of the expansion movement
      to
      inner cities. The new corporate college execs now build campuses for
      edge
      cities and suburbs filled with middle to even upper-middle class
      students...
      I understand now why so many of our exurban campus faculty see
      themselves as
      university profs...there is no longer much of a difference between many
      of
      our middle class cc's and universities in terms of whom they serve and
      what
      the mission is. I miss our shared mission-driven community college
      commitment to students who still need us so badly...to students I am
      demanding and challenging but caring, persistent and helpful if the
      student
      is helping her or himself. will miss only our students in such need at
      our
      campus as so many are incredibly strong to deal with lives with no
      health
      care for their children or themselves, with shoddy day care, with 2-3
      inadequate part-time jobs along with school schedule, with the need to
      be
      persistent at learning how to manage this life and schedule so that they
      can
      get that AA degree in 5-7 years...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: frank lagana
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Suggestions for student/prof expectations

      I think that a good part of the problem here is that so many community
      college students really have no idea of what's expected of them in
      college.
      No one has ever really expected anything of them academically and they
      don't
      really expect anything of themselves. Maybe part of our job is to give
      them
      an idea what it means to be an educated person (goodness knows there
      aren't
      too many intellectual role models in their culture) and the route they
      have
      to take to get there.

      frank

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    • anthropmor@AOL.COM
      In a message dated 11/2/2009 9:10:28 A.M. Central Standard Time, dianne.chidester@gvltec.edu writes: . They can also recommend a book by our fellow anthro
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 2, 2009
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        In a message dated 11/2/2009 9:10:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
        dianne.chidester@... writes:

        .



        They can also recommend a book by our fellow anthro Dustin Wax, called
        'Don't Be Stupid - a guide to being a better student"



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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