Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof expectations

Expand Messages
  • Kent Morris
    good book... ... From: Philip Stein To: Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:31 AM Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT:
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 1, 2009
      good book...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Philip Stein" <stein39@...>
      To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:31 AM
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof expectations


      Mark brings up an extemely important point. Like many of us--not all
      obviously--I came from a middle class family and went through college as a
      full-time student without having to work, accept for a few on-campus jobs
      for spending money. Students today, especially at the community college
      level, have a much more difficult time of it. I suggest that everyone read
      Cathy Small's book My Freshman Year (under the name Rebeka Nathan). She
      concludes that the greatest problem facing students today is time
      management, having to work 20 or more hours a week, with family obligations,
      etc.

      I feel very strongly that we need to be realistic about our assignments.
      (Our students simply do not have time for a lot of extra reading, for
      example.) And rather than lecture to them and add lists of expectations to
      our syllabi (like SLOs, I doubt if any student reads such stuff), we need to
      act as role models. If you have reasonable, well-thought out and articulated
      expectations and you are fair in your grading and dealing with students,
      most students will rise to the occasion. And those you don't--well, you just
      have to accept the fact that you can't with them all.

      --- On Fri, 10/30/09, Mark Lewine <mlewine@...> wrote:


      From: Mark Lewine <mlewine@...>
      Subject: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof expectations
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:32 PM






      Frank, I could not agree with you more...my first week in every class
      starting in my third year of teaching, (1974) I realized that I had to learn
      what my students knew and did not know (formative evaluation we call it
      now)...realized that their strengths were street cultural adaptations that
      were very powerful, often successful for daily living in the street but
      often at odds with traditional academic culture which is primarily centered
      on middle class culture. I realized that an anthropologist and sociologist
      (I was both) needed to PRODUCE AN ORIENTATION PROCESS IN THE FIRST WEEK OF
      CLASS AND USE IN PRACTICE WHAT WE TAUGHT because we were really a domestic
      settlement house for successful enculturation to American educational,
      vocational and even social mobility. Many a waitress or bar maid taught me
      that she knew social science concepts, fieldwork methods, just knew them as
      survival techniques and needed the academic vocabulary. Of course, I still
      work
      at an inner city campus where most students are still first members of
      their family to go to college, coming to us with lives that are hard to even
      imagine...it is so easy to have that university professor attitude of "the
      great and powerful Oz" who is the gate-keeper for academic cultural
      acceptance.. .I was happy to leave the university where so many profs were
      self-important gods of their field of study, doling out the crumbs to
      hustling grad students and expecting worship or at least indifferent boredom
      from undergrads, so that they did not have to do much with them...but I got
      to be at the community college from the start of the expansion movement to
      inner cities. The new corporate college execs now build campuses for edge
      cities and suburbs filled with middle to even upper-middle class students...
      I understand now why so many of our exurban campus faculty see themselves as
      university profs...there is no longer much of a difference between many of
      our middle class cc's and universities in terms of whom they serve and what
      the mission is. I miss our shared mission-driven community college
      commitment to students who still need us so badly...to students I am
      demanding and challenging but caring, persistent and helpful if the student
      is helping her or himself. will miss only our students in such need at our
      campus as so many are incredibly strong to deal with lives with no health
      care for their children or themselves, with shoddy day care, with 2-3
      inadequate part-time jobs along with school schedule, with the need to be
      persistent at learning how to manage this life and schedule so that they can
      get that AA degree in 5-7 years...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: frank lagana
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Suggestions for student/prof expectations

      I think that a good part of the problem here is that so many community
      college students really have no idea of what's expected of them in college.
      No one has ever really expected anything of them academically and they don't
      really expect anything of themselves. Maybe part of our job is to give them
      an idea what it means to be an educated person (goodness knows there aren't
      too many intellectual role models in their culture) and the route they have
      to take to get there.

      frank

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
      Groups Links
    • dianne.chidester@gvltec.edu
      Maybe it s the system that needs to change! So many students can t get the financial aid and health insurance they need unless they take X number of courses.
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 2, 2009
        Maybe it's the system that needs to change! So many students can't get
        the financial aid and health insurance they need unless they take X
        number of courses. (I think this is usually 5.) This is based on the
        old idea that students are ONLY students. As the cost of college has
        gone up, many of my students have to work in order to pay to enroll in 5
        classes so they can get their financial aid. Then they find themselves
        overloaded and do poorly in classes and, therefore, lose their financial
        aid and/or health insurance. Talk about a Catch 22! In a film I use in
        my sociology classes about the high rates of farmer suicide, an expert
        on suicide says that it's much easier to change the biology of the
        individual than it is to change the economic system. Caffeine anyone?



        This thread is timely because one of my colleagues was talking about one
        of her classes. She told me that she talked to them and said,
        essentially, that it doesn't hurt her if they are not prepared. She
        will still have her job, the same pay, etc., but that it is THEY who
        will pay because of poor g.p.a.'s, losing scholarships, insurance, etc.
        She reported to me that this seemed to have quite an effect-at least for
        the time being.



        As y'all know, I was a non-traditional student and working several part
        time jobs in order to balance school and work. However, I was lucky
        because I did have insurance and didn't have to worry about that. (I
        lost that later.) I realized, though, that I could only take about 3
        classes a semester and still work and that I really had to cut down on
        living expenses. This really goes against the forces of a consumer
        economy, though.



        Cheers!

        Dianne







        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Kent Morris
        Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:13 PM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof
        expectations





        good book...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Philip Stein" <stein39@... <mailto:stein39%40att.net> >
        To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
        Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:31 AM
        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof
        expectations

        Mark brings up an extemely important point. Like many of us--not all
        obviously--I came from a middle class family and went through college as
        a
        full-time student without having to work, accept for a few on-campus
        jobs
        for spending money. Students today, especially at the community college
        level, have a much more difficult time of it. I suggest that everyone
        read
        Cathy Small's book My Freshman Year (under the name Rebeka Nathan). She
        concludes that the greatest problem facing students today is time
        management, having to work 20 or more hours a week, with family
        obligations,
        etc.

        I feel very strongly that we need to be realistic about our assignments.

        (Our students simply do not have time for a lot of extra reading, for
        example.) And rather than lecture to them and add lists of expectations
        to
        our syllabi (like SLOs, I doubt if any student reads such stuff), we
        need to
        act as role models. If you have reasonable, well-thought out and
        articulated
        expectations and you are fair in your grading and dealing with students,

        most students will rise to the occasion. And those you don't--well, you
        just
        have to accept the fact that you can't with them all.

        --- On Fri, 10/30/09, Mark Lewine <mlewine@...
        <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> > wrote:

        From: Mark Lewine <mlewine@... <mailto:mlewine%40wowway.com> >
        Subject: [SACC-L] Re: RANT: Suggestions for student/prof expectations
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 8:32 PM

        Frank, I could not agree with you more...my first week in every class
        starting in my third year of teaching, (1974) I realized that I had to
        learn
        what my students knew and did not know (formative evaluation we call it
        now)...realized that their strengths were street cultural adaptations
        that
        were very powerful, often successful for daily living in the street but
        often at odds with traditional academic culture which is primarily
        centered
        on middle class culture. I realized that an anthropologist and
        sociologist
        (I was both) needed to PRODUCE AN ORIENTATION PROCESS IN THE FIRST WEEK
        OF
        CLASS AND USE IN PRACTICE WHAT WE TAUGHT because we were really a
        domestic
        settlement house for successful enculturation to American educational,
        vocational and even social mobility. Many a waitress or bar maid taught
        me
        that she knew social science concepts, fieldwork methods, just knew them
        as
        survival techniques and needed the academic vocabulary. Of course, I
        still
        work
        at an inner city campus where most students are still first members of
        their family to go to college, coming to us with lives that are hard to
        even
        imagine...it is so easy to have that university professor attitude of
        "the
        great and powerful Oz" who is the gate-keeper for academic cultural
        acceptance.. .I was happy to leave the university where so many profs
        were
        self-important gods of their field of study, doling out the crumbs to
        hustling grad students and expecting worship or at least indifferent
        boredom
        from undergrads, so that they did not have to do much with them...but I
        got
        to be at the community college from the start of the expansion movement
        to
        inner cities. The new corporate college execs now build campuses for
        edge
        cities and suburbs filled with middle to even upper-middle class
        students...
        I understand now why so many of our exurban campus faculty see
        themselves as
        university profs...there is no longer much of a difference between many
        of
        our middle class cc's and universities in terms of whom they serve and
        what
        the mission is. I miss our shared mission-driven community college
        commitment to students who still need us so badly...to students I am
        demanding and challenging but caring, persistent and helpful if the
        student
        is helping her or himself. will miss only our students in such need at
        our
        campus as so many are incredibly strong to deal with lives with no
        health
        care for their children or themselves, with shoddy day care, with 2-3
        inadequate part-time jobs along with school schedule, with the need to
        be
        persistent at learning how to manage this life and schedule so that they
        can
        get that AA degree in 5-7 years...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: frank lagana
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 6:00 PM
        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Suggestions for student/prof expectations

        I think that a good part of the problem here is that so many community
        college students really have no idea of what's expected of them in
        college.
        No one has ever really expected anything of them academically and they
        don't
        really expect anything of themselves. Maybe part of our job is to give
        them
        an idea what it means to be an educated person (goodness knows there
        aren't
        too many intellectual role models in their culture) and the route they
        have
        to take to get there.

        frank

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
        Groups Links




        This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To the best of our ability and knowledge, this mail message has been scanned and is free of viruses and malware.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • anthropmor@AOL.COM
        In a message dated 11/2/2009 9:10:28 A.M. Central Standard Time, dianne.chidester@gvltec.edu writes: . They can also recommend a book by our fellow anthro
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 2, 2009
          In a message dated 11/2/2009 9:10:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          dianne.chidester@... writes:

          .



          They can also recommend a book by our fellow anthro Dustin Wax, called
          'Don't Be Stupid - a guide to being a better student"



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.